Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

i still feel like thats a bit optimistic lol, ill aim low that way im pleasantly surprised and not disappointed

project89

iTrader: (1)

wel think about it 174hp at 1/3 throtle on a very rich tune with litle to no spark advance
u sir have one beastly 3.4

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

What all have you done to it? That sounds high for an iron head motor.

Project 3.4 Camaro

rwp, or crank? And non boost? Non boost I should pretty much have right about same power output as him.

project89

iTrader: (1)

he has a set of heads i did with a 260 cam headers catback and ported intake that i did depending on the condition of the 3.4 shortblock he should put down some decent numbers with the exception that he neds a tune realy bad now as hes runing the modified 3.4 on a stock 2.8 ecm

RSFreak

Well said!

TheSwarm666X

to be honest i think keeping the emblem is cool. it makes it look more stock yet custom. i have a lot of plans for my car and to be honest if i don't repaint everything I'd love to do the exact thing he did.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

thanks!

Vetruck makes it sounds like it's a simple procedure to remove the emblem, like taking off a label or something. I'm not sure he knows it's cast into the aluminum, and making it vanish would mean grinding it down smooth but yet still trying to build up the shoulders of the cast so they go all the way across the plenum.

Possible? doubtful

More trouble than it's worth, even if it was possible? certainly

I like your observation swarm, I tend to think of my mods as being "over restored" not modified. I'm glad somebody else "gets it"

AM91Camaro_RS

actually its not part of the casting. I removed one from a manifold I was attempting to modify. It later became part of another project I was doing.

Project 3.4 Camaro

I get it, just not for me My route is to make the car into a whole 'nother beast :P

58mark

iTrader: (3)

you talking about the 2.8 letters, or the circle that surrounds it all? I didn't try prying up the black disc, but I can assure you the circle around it is all cast.

I did somebody put a pontiac arrow in the center of the circle... I thought that looked AWESOME

AM91Camaro_RS

well, yeah, the circle is part of the casting but the emblem is a separate piece.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

There are a lot of misconceptions on stuff with Redraif's car, especially with her and my absence here, so I'll clear up a few things here. For one, the polishing and detailing on that car was second to none. Even the cast iron components were smoothed, not just the aluminum. I did all the mechanicals and a good bit of the detail work, but there is no one that worked harder on the details than she did. It was a joint effort, and both of us spent countless hours (something like 40 on the MASTER CYLINDER alone!) bringing it up to that standard. She pushed me harder than anyone ever has.

The pics with the Trueleo intake are some of the last ones ever posted, but there was much more done after that. In fact, the car was in pieces still from the last round of upgrades when we parted ways, over 3 years ago. As far as I know, it is still in pieces.

The intake, in spite of outright incorrect claims by people who have never used one, worked very well. Over 260 lb/ft RW torque, without tuning, from an internally stock 3.4? It woke the car up better than any modification that had been done to that point. The F-body Trueleo intake was created due to our request, and we got the first prototype, since we provided all the measurements needed and even sent a stock intake to them to help with the development. I have no doubt that it would have been one of the faster NA V6 3rd gens around, had it ever been finished.

The intake did LOOK bad, and yes, being made of steel wasn't its best feature, but again, it was a prototype. The ceramic coating was done by Trueleo, and it looked awful from day one. The plan was to clean up the welds, smooth it completely, and paint it to match the engine after all our testing was done. They were talking about an aluminum version, but since their main showcase car was never completed, it didn't go much further.

I'm sure that a better intake could be built, but at the time there were NO other intakes to go with, at least not for a reasonable cost. Go price a Hogan, and tell me that the Trueleo was expensive. I don't think anyone had done a complete upper intake at that point (though there were a few modified top sections). Keep in mind, too, that this was NOT a high buck effort...we both had crappy jobs at the time, and had to do more with less. This car was also driven daily, even in rain, when it wasn't being worked on.

innyards

[quote=Fallen2603;4678871]For some of us, going fast in a straight line, gets BORING. Sure, I like going fast in a straight line, but I like carving corners more. A big heavy V8 in the front end puts a bigger kink in weight distribution and handling than having a nice V6 in their. To many of us, the V6 is a cheaper place to start. Some of us simply can't afford to go out and buy a V8 and all the other parts necessary to swap into our V6 cars. For others, it's something different to help add innovation to a sport that appears to be stagnating. Here are my reasons for going V6:

A) Decreased curb-weight.
B) Better weight distribution.
C) Because of reasons A) and B), better handling.
D) Better fuel efficiency.
E) An engine that's begging to be turbocharged to the point of making modified V8 power levels.
F) Not spending hundreds of dollars more on a "V8 Camaro"...that quite possibly was originally a V6 car anyhows.

Redsledd, if you still can't understand why we do this, hey, don't worry. We're not starting the apocalypse or anything equally disastrous. We're just finding ways off getting our rocks off that don't coincide with yours.

Hell, I'd love to see an EcoteCamaro with a twin-charged LSJ out of a Cobalt SS Supercharged. That sounds like another project I'll have to add to my list...[/quote]


not to mention most V-8's came with the dog rear end of 2.73 gears, while v-6's came with either 3.23 or 3.43 gears and by the way 58mark that is one of the nicest 2.8 s i've seen

Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah, we didn't get posi though, but tbh my car hooks up pretty dang well for a 3.42 non posi with ~240 ft lbs of torque with stock suspension, I do have new rear shocks and springs though, I am sure that helps.

innyards

Quote:

Originally Posted by Project 3.4 Camaro

Yeah, we didn't get posi though, but tbh my car hooks up pretty dang well for a 3.42 non posi with ~240 ft lbs of torque with stock suspension, I do have new rear shocks and springs though, I am sure that helps.

I agree with you completely, I pretty much have the same setup except for 3.23 gears and IROC heavy duty variable springs in the back along with new shocks ,ect and the little 2.8 will take my 84 camaro sport couple with a 305 4 barrell off the line every time

DaKrames92

iTrader: (2)

Wanna know another reason to go v6? Imagine you're a teenager paying for your own...INSURANCE..am i right? I've got one ticket and just looking at a 350TA made my insurance nearly 300 a month for liability. with my little 3.1? payin 150 a month for full coverage!

Project 3.4 Camaro

And its not like they ask you if its some twincharged 600 hp monstrosity(what I am aspiring to make mine into)

DaKrames92

iTrader: (2)

exactly. "what's the displacement?" (since engine swaps are illegal here in VA, i think) "only 3.1l...cool ccheap insurance!!" *rev rev screeeech* bye!

Project 3.4 Camaro

I don't think my company even asks the displacement, I think it just asks how many cylinders, and I already went from a 2.8 to a 3.4, very few people would notice the difference, pretty much only someone really familar with 60/6s and or v6 fbodies would.

DaKrames92

iTrader: (2)

true that. and mine does, only because you select the engine from a drop down box >.<

auto-x1990RS

as one who went from the 3.1 v6 powered 3rd gen to an LT1 powered 4th, i will say that my 3rd gen reacted so much faster than my 4th does. was the 3.1 fast??? good god no, but it was an absolute blast. i could do a full days worth of auto-x on less than a 1/4 tank of gas with the 3.1. with the LT1, i loose half a tank at minimum :/

i'm looking hard for another 3.1 powered Camaro. preferably with a T5 this time, though i could live with another auto car.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

not to mention most V-8's came with the dog rear end of 2.73 gears, while v-6's came with either 3.23 or 3.43 gears and by the way 58mark that is one of the nicest 2.8 s i've seen[/QUOTE]

That sounds about right my Z28 has 3.08. But now that I am in NewMexico I really don't mind the 3.08 rear. Having the 3.08 in heavy stop and go traffic in virginia sucked.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

Also you can get the valve covers off a MPI V6-60, it takes a mix of extentions, u-joints, flex shafts and a deep well.
It can be done. (I didn't do it)
I think I would just pull the intake.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

you know I see alot of TBI bashing in here. I'm not knocking a V6 build at all. hell I'm wanting to build a 3.4-T5 swap for my 1981 Toyota Starlet but I can damn near promise that there isn't a single non turbo'd V6 car in here that can take me in either a straight line or even in the twisties (Well VEtrucks but his car is nuts in the autocross) My car even with the heavy Snypers and 3/4 tanks of gas is at 2900lbs without my 190lb carcus in it. I'd LOVE to tangle with any one of you guys to prove you wrong. Again I'm not bashing but the TBI crap needs to simmah dah nah. lol

58mark

iTrader: (3)

God.... I love how the TBI crowd comes into the V6 forum just so they can feel superior to somebody.

It's just sad, you guys have no clue what we're about, it's beyond your level of understanding.

I suggest you go back and re-read (or read for the first time) my first post in this thread, and pay attention to the second paragraph

Project 3.4 Camaro

I wouldn't be so sure of that, theres some pretty insane v6 f-bodies, and you said nothing about SCs or nitrous, and truth is anyone with a v6 who plans to make srs power plans to boost, not to mention some have 3.8s, and I know of a guy with ITBs on a either a hybrid or a 3500(can't recall which) and I know there is a 3.4 thats turbocharged and runs 12s, with hardly any other mods if memory serves.
And I think most of the TBI bashing is directed at the stock engine, truth is stock for stock the TBI 305 is no better than a mpfi v6. And your car might have more power potential but it has less handling potential.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Handling maybe, depends on the setup of each car. The 3.8 is an excellent engine, been proven many times over to hold it own against any who come against it. As far as not having a clue? I've been building these cars for YEARS. There isn't much about them I don't know. As far as being superior, any car can be built to be fast. cubic inches equals cubic dollars, how much do you have to spend? I myself have had to prove myself against the "better " cars. LT1's? beat them. Turbo'd Honda's? beat them too. I've built my car to be more than just a better engine but to be a better car over all. Hell even Stock LS1 car can BARELY pull away from me. Now that I have my 3200 stall in that can be in question itself, I havent tested it as of yet. Again, I'm not bashing anyone. I'm just saying get the facts totally straight before passing judgement, that's all.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

you just proved my point about 6 times in that one post.

clueless.


I'm laughing over here becaues you have NO IDEA what i'm talking about. it's so far above your head

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Clueless? Ok son, explain to me exactly how clueless I am. I'd love to hear how you can TRY to teach me how clueless I am. You can begin. Considering I have many more years of doing this than you do. Please, bring it.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

did you read the second paragraph of my first post in this thread like I told you to? If that doesn't explain it to you, you're beyond hope.

while you're there, you may want to read the 5th paragraph as well... twice.

if you still don't understand, PM me, I'd be glad to have this conversation off thread. Right now I've got a pillow calling my name

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

"first thing you have to understand is not everybody feels like they have to make up for shortcomings in their life by driving around like their pants are on fire. Some us are just fine and happy driving around the city normally, going with the flow of traffic, and maybe opening it up a little on the highway fom time to time, but not fast enough to get us arrested in case we do get pulled over..."

Read it twice my friend, I never stated that this was this post I was refering to. I was just posting to the ones stating that TBI was junk. If you want to build a V6 for a cruiser then f@#$ing build it. There's nothing wrong with that, hell, turbo it and run with the big boys. I could give half a rats a$$. But too say I don't have a clue about what I'm talking about? You can go fuq yourself. I don't take kindly to that crap.

TheSwarm666X

i wasn't going to reply to this but i feel i should. i am not going to claim that i know more or even 1/8th of what you do.

i understand you trying to protect TBI (I understanding that as the 305 engine). the fact people bash it because stock for stock it isn't worth itself. yes, you con modify it to be better (power wise) than the v6 but the v6 hold more than its share of advantages. sadly people with the 305s or 350s usually go off about how v8s are better than v6s. in reality the 305 did not hold enough power advantages off the production line to be worth it.

though this car is your baby and any bash toward the engine is against your car in your eyes. so you feel the need to post but with that post instead of trying to give an advantage it has you focus more on how superior your car is, and intern you try to say how superior you are.

you seem to figure that just because you are one of the v8 crowd that it is better. that is a wrong assumption.

as for 58mark. he is just trying to state how you can't understand that not everyone wants to be fast. a v6 is an extremely durable engine and in all reality it could outlast a 305 or 350 easy giving the same care. the v6 has better fuel economy and with that it makes it a great daily car and still can give us the power needed to over throw traffic. it is not always about performance but the car/engine itself.

in turn please understand your views on what makes a great car great is not always what you can do with it but rather what it can do for you. v6 sits vary balanced, it is durable and has better fuel consumption than the 305 to say the least. power isn't always important. giving what you did with yours (i checked the link) it is a really fine car. but people can do equally impressive things with the v6.

i see this as when i was growing up i had two older brothers. the eldest picked on the middle and the middle picked on me to prove he wasn't weak. you are that middle brother. you can't live up to the 350 so you bash the v6 to prove you are still strong. just accept that each have it's advantages and disadvantages. in their own right they are all good and each speaks best for each person respectfully. we are v6 people, you are a 305 person. we may bash each other but we should also respect each other. in the end they are still f-bodies. you have a Camaro and i have a Firebird. even though i am a Pontiac guy and would never want a Camaro. i understand that others prefer the Camaro.

now for your last comment. you are being way to defensive. you have a shortcoming that 58mark was talking about.
you are to focused on proving yourself. sometimes you need to walk away or try to meet a middle ground. you seem to focused on what bothers you about yourself so you hide it by covering it by anger and superiority. i am not stating this to bash you at all, you have grounds to fix this problem. coming back to me with an insult will not fix your own problems either. like how Marty had to learn to not take on every challenge in BTTF. you need to fight your own downfalls. beleave me i have my own but i tackle them as i find them.

please take this as it is. you don't need to defend yourself, i already understand that you know way more modifying these things than i do.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

WELL SAID!

Gotta love any post that throws in a BTTF reference.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

V6 cars are turds and so are 305tbi's... Only difference is we know are cars are turds.

Welcome to our world lol

Oh and my turd is faster than your turd... Boost optional

mikey88firebird

just cruising past and waving at the old, antiquated v8 cars at the gas station more than makes up for there v8 is king crap ! and that is coming from a guy who has the small journal 2.8 carb'd engine that has over 250,000 miles and still going! unreliable my A$$

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Well said but and no I'm not going to belittle anyone. First of all, I never bashed anyone having a V6. I know all too well the advantages and disadvantages to both. As far as the V6 lasting longer with the same care.....that in it's self is relative. Too many variables can get in the way of that one. With an LO3 you get the best of both worlds, Good economy and power. Tuned up right you can easily get in the high 20's and low 30's in the MPG dept on the highway. Even with my car modified as it is still gets about 26 MPG's when out cruising about 18 in the day to day traffic. Still not too bad in my book.


My car is being built to be an "all around" car. Both in a straightline and in the twisties. I could post a whole page of what I've done to my car but I don't see the point in that. One day I myself would like to build a V6 car as just a peppy daily driver. I figure I'm probably going to go the 3.8 route when I do as they are amazing engines. Again I never came in to "bash" anybody, just to let it be known that not all LO3's are weak pathetic turds. Built correctly they get great streetable power with the benefits of very good economy.

As to me getting too defensive......well when I'm told I don't know what the hell I'm talking about when I fully assure you that I do I take great offense to that. I've been building these cars for far too long too have someone call me "clueless". I've even helped a friend (God rest his soul) build up his 85 2.8 car years ago. Granted I was still fairly green back then but we were able to get that car in the 15's off the bottle and mid 14's on it. Unfortunately he wrapped it out so hard a rod decided to bust a hole the size of my fist on the drivers side of the block. Yeah that was fun getting that car home,lol. So no, I'm no stranger to the V6 crowd. So enjoy building your engines and have fun doing that as much as I do. And as for Pilsbury..you're gonna need to turn your boost up to be faster than me, that I can promise you,lol. Just giving you **** man.

Pillsbry10

iTrader: (1)

I've got a clutch now so that's not a problem I think you'd be shocked with just 5-7lbs but I'm game for more

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I realize that I came across very harsh in my post last night

I never meant to imply that you're clueless about working on engines, the rather than mentality and attitude of most v 6 owners
I'm sure you are quite skilled at working on your car, and I respect that

to put it bluntly I really don't care how fast your car is, that doesn't impress me in the least

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

Kingsman AZ huh? Ever come up to Denver? We're close to the same weight and I'm buying a 3500 stall converter soon. Would be an interesting race.

TheSwarm666X

the clueless he was talking about was not, "not understanding" the car but not understanding why people like them for the reasons of what they are worth.

i really respect your reply, it was the reply that we love to see. it was well put, extremely good job. thank you so much for it.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

I haven't been to Denver since I was 13, kinda reminds me of L.A without the water,lol. I usually go to Vegas to get some runs in since it's only 100 miles away from me. If you're ever in Vegas hit me up, it should be fun.

AM91Camaro_RS

not talkin smack, not sayin I'll beat you...just curious... what are your 1/4 mile times? mine are in my sig

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

The last time I had anything close to a time slip was the annual street drags here back in 09. From the calculations then it was a 14.30 to 14.20 car. That's back when I still had the stock heads,cam and converter with a bored out Edelbrock TBI intake. Here's the thread I posted about it back then with videos.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/theo...omination.html


I have since added mildly ported and 3 angled ZZ4 heads,ZZ4 cam with 1.6 roller tip rockers on the intake and 1.5 roller tip rockers on the exhaust, An Edelbrock RPM intake with an adapter plate and a Edge 3200 stall. Hopefully I can get the tune in a bit closer to optimum before my next run, she's running a tad rich at the moment.

AM91Camaro_RS

not too bad. I can't believe I actually pulled a better 60' time than the one you listed in your other thread. i'll have to try to find some of my old slips to see what my 330 times were.

robertfrank

iTrader: (27)

Like I said I was mostly stock back then, i should be doing MUCH better now,lol.

bl85c

iTrader: (2)

If I go to Vegas it won't be in the 'maro. I'll need a taxi to go anywhere lol.

sonicmike

I purposely looked for a V-6. I found a 1992 RS that was a one owner car with only 88k on the odometer when I purchased it in June of 2009. Here are the reasons I looked for the 6:

1). I use mine as a daily driver and at the time of purchase, I commuted about 70
miles per day. Soon, that commute will rise to about 80!

2). The stock V-8 in 1992 put out 170HP. The 3.1 puts out 140 from the factory.
With the price of gas where it is, the 30 HP difference really isn't that
important! I did put in a performace chip, so it's a little better than 140 now!

3). Most of the V-8 cars on the market are THRASHED!

I'm going to upgrade the exhaust a little bit to give it a little more 'definition' . . . LOL! But overall, I'm content!

berlinettaman

I have recently purchased an '83 Berlinetta 2.8 for $500. The oil is black as soot, the fuel pump just about shot, it overheats, and it only has about 20 of its horsepowers left. But I enjoy it anyway. Owning a V6 shows individuality in the owner and the need and desire for basic transportation. A million-cubic-inch V8 in a car that doesn't need it shows how gullible some people are when it comes to engine choice. I got T-Tops, a 5-speed, and one of the best looking body styles ever on an American car to give me street cred; not a gas guzzling, headache V8. Every time I encounter a twisty backroad somewhere, it puts a huge grin on my face knowing I don't have to deal with titanic amounts of understeer. Thats what V6 is about.

Cadaver Puncher

iTrader: (1)

the fiero guys do it because they are fiero guys. lol they have extra $$$ to throw around, look at all the "Ferrari " type body kits. Also weren't they known for catching on fire? I've seen 2 at a local wrecking yard that were burned.