I was kind of wondering what kind of market there would be for these if they were reproduced?? What would you be willing to pay for one??
They will be costly with mold costs, casting,machining, gaskets, bolts, brackets and all that stuff.. I would have to make around 20-30 to make a go of this.
I have the means to really do this..
Tell me pros or cons. disscuss.

 

I would think that it would have the sell for no more than $1200 to have any likely market. That is about what many of the other intakes cost after you have a complete manifold and fuel rails.

I can't say I'm really in the market for one but, but since I'm working on building a clone of the Firehawk motor, it would be nice to top it off with a T-ram.

 

Not to throw a wet blanket on your fire, but I would highly doubt it....

How many Stealth Rams is Holley selling? How many MiniRams is TPIS selling? Take the pulse of the market.

Who would care? specifically, who would care ENOUGH to spend that kind of money on something that they could spend less and get more? The only people who would want it, are people who aren't interested in "performance" as such; it would be Firehawk enthusiasts ONLY. The small handful of people to whom it's desirable to "clone" a Firehawk, down to that level of detail, I can't feature being enough to support it.

What supporting pieces does it require? Brackets, hardware, wiring, fittings, water outlet, fuel rails, ??? whatever it disturbs or displaces in the course of installation? Would you be able to supply all of those? PROFITABLY? I would think, just casting the bare casting, is only the beginning.

Then there's the problem of true demand. Look at how many people on the Drivetrain board make all kinds of noise about how they want to upgrade their gears but then abandon the plan altogether when they discover that 9-bolt gears cost $350. I suspect that actually SELLING them, regardless of how many people tell you they're "interested" when you say you're looking at building them, is going to be an uphill battle. Ask Miles (formerly 9bolt.com) or John Millican (formerly LT1Intake.com) about their REAL-WORLD experience doing a similar thing.

If I were doing it, I'd want a substantial deposit on hand from enough prospective buyers to cover ALL costs, before I'd spend a dime of my own money on something that will end up selling for so much that it'll scare off 99.999% of the market. If you want another real-life lesson in a parallel situation, go ask somebody that ever opened a restaurant or a coffee shop because they liked food or coffee, how their experience worked out.

 

From what I've seen on this board...you'll get a lot of people saying "hell yeah we want it, build it!" Then you tell them how much it's gonna be and then they'll be like "oh, um nevermind."

IMHO it would not be worth it for you from a business standpoint to do something like this. I do commend you for your efforts but the reality is alot of 3rd genners are cheap...they want something for nothing. It would also be hard to compete against the Holley Stealthram as far as price/performance goes.

 

You would also have to buy the rights from SLP first which would probably cost a decent amount and thats IF they are willing to sell.

 

I think that might be a little harsh. I think more than anything 3rd genners are young. ...and with that, you get the fact that they can't afford a lot, AND the fact the they can be over enthusiastic about costly mods when in reality they can't afford to actually do it. But of course, for the sake of this discussion, it's really the same thing.

...I also agree with Sofa on this. Who would buy one? ...and why? The TPI looks better, and the HSR works better. There will ALWAYS be someone who'll want one, but I can't imagine finding more than one or two.

 

1st off great input guys keep it coming..
I guess I should have stated some of my goals/ideas with this project..
I have always wanted one of these intakes but with prices going the way they are for the originals!?!?!?!
I dont want them to be exact copies.. close but not quite.
there would be 3-4 changes/options that would increase HP and TQ..
Just some ideas/mods. Plenum mods,runner length mods, Plastic tanks plenums, complete magnesium(sp)castings..
I am convinced that I can make this style of intake work a LOT better.
I DO NOT want to devalue the originals, so some mild changes or a letter cast into the intake to show it was a newer setup ..
I want these to be used and abused..
I have been incontact with the right people to do this
I understand the whole market thing and that third gen dudes are tight wads(im one of them)
Im not looking to make enough money off this idea to put my future kids through school but there are a few people that still crave this style intake I think

 

Are you the guy bidding against me on EBAY for the T Ram?

I have local Co. that makes molds and thought about the same thing. but as said above Its not really worth it. I planed to just use the one for a display and chrome plate it. After all it is cut in 1/2. (well part of it anywys)

 

You will also loose some of the market to guys like me who have to pass smog. If you want to do something look into making the Edlbrock style TPI intake manifold but with bigger runners designed for a 350 or larger motor.

The cross sectional area of the runners is woefully inadequate and limits most to around 5200rpm for peak power. The port entry into the heads is atrocious. The First Intake manifold has addressed these areas but is not a bolt on for other TPI runners.

If it could be made of a plastic or material that limits heat transfer that would be great. The cooler the air the better. It would also look enough like the original to pass smog. Most if not all techs would not notice the difference.

So what is needed is a cross between the Edelbrock and the First TPI intake manifolds. Then maybe jump into the runner scene. The factory plenum is good enough with mods.

 

I guess I'll add my

Me personally I think the intake is crap, just looking through the throttle body ports is enough to shy me away from it, it has way to many 90* bends for the air to travel and the thing is damn huge and ugly to boot!

Your idea of changing things around sounds interesting and if you came up with a decent prototype I'am sure that would build more interest. Let's face it people want to see the real deal with some dyno numbers from a 5.7L engine before they plunk down the cash.


Now if you drop the idea of copying the T-Ram and design a intake either similar to the steathram or ideally something that matches a LS1 intake(runner length and maybe looks) that would fit under the hood of a Bird or more importantly under the hood of a 4th gen Corvette, then my friend you would have a real winner on your hands. Make the price between 600-800 and be friendly to your customers and I don't see why you couldn't sell a **** load of them!

 

Very good thoughts guys..
No It wasnt me bidding on the E-Bay T-Ram, I wanted it to but I have other things I need to pay for right now..
I do have a little bit of a fix for the runner intrusion just behind the T-Body.
I have a friend with one just sitting around..
The T-Ram has a place for EGR and I would keep that..
All my intake ideas would be no taller than a stock TPI.

I have always liked the look of a stock TPI but the power output I didnt..
I have thought of a TPI with a new base,runners and plenum.
I would do the shape of the base-runners-plenum being the same as the head. with the runners-plenum being LS style plastic..

Customer service would never be overlooked..

 

Tony,

I'll add one request, specially if you decide to build something original. Please make it so that it will fit under strut tower braces.

All of the intakes that are out there, except the Super-Ram and Mini-Ram, are too tall for STBs. If you can build something that is no taller than a TPI and performs better at high RPMs with a moderate runner length, I WILL buy one.

 

I agree on the T-Ram in that there are to many 90 degree bends. If I had bought one at the time I would have got busy with the die grinder and opened up the plenum area.

 

I have had the thought last year, that an LS1 styled intake would kick butt on every-intake that we on our 350s or 305 now. Those intakes flow like crazy and help develop the flat torque curves of the LS1 family of engines.
If someone designed an LS1 styled intake, I think it would sell very well. I think its a great novell idea.
Forthermore, these intakes set low, these would be no clearance issues with hoos or strut tower braces. I want to work with someone on this idea. And my cousins run a pattern & mold shop.

 

I think one of the problem is the intake port spacing on the Gen 1 SBC heads. Also the distributor might be a problem.

I was thinking along the lines of hiding the LS1 style runners inside a plenum like the Accel Superram. That way it might pass for smog with the Accel cover on it. Hehehehe. But I believe the problems I mentioned above would prevent it.

Then again I believe some of the late vortec truck motors have the LS1 style runners with a distributor in the location of the SBC. Those might be worthwhile looking at for ideas.

I also want to state again that the problem with the TPI intake manifold is the size of the runners(CSA) and the entry angle into the head. Solve those problems along with siamesed runners with the proper length divider and I believe the goals will be accomplished. This is what I'm trying do to with the First intake mod I'm doing.

 

How about use the heads and intake rather than just the intake.

 

Well there are tons of things here that need to be worked out first. What rpm is this intake going to be used at. will it favor big (383+) motors or small (350-) motors? All of these things will dictate the runner length and diameter. Since you are designing a dry flow intake, you don't really have to worry too much about one cylinder stealing from another as long as the runners are longer than 2" or so.

The second thing is what niche are you trying to fill with this intake. Why would someone buy your intake over the HSR, SR, MR, or stock TPI? What will your intake offer that others dont? If you do a search you will find that BBK was going to offer an intake for us but seem to have abandoned the idea. I think if you have a clear direction, and know exactly what you want to do with this intake, you have a better chance of success. An interesting twist would be a variable length intake runner system similar to how some small 4cylinders have. Anyway, I think you need to offer something fresh and unique or will have no reason to choose your intake over others that are out there.

 

madmax: Thats a great idea! A combo cylinder head & intake manifold styled like the LSx engines. We would use the highly retangular head intake ports, as on the LS1 heads. Siamesing these ports should be simply, because they are separted alot, more so than the L98 SBC heads. But, I feel like I could work with someone or a company and design & manufacture an LSx intake, but to do both (which is the best engineering solution) is probably too much to handle at first.

1meanZ: I have a scary fast LS1 Camaro SS and my 3rd gen car. The LS6 intake, which I am running now, works great on 347 cubes up to 402s. The LS6 intake is even run on 427s. What I am after is the flat torque curves that these intakes appear to generate. I see no problem with the dizzy, or even the EGR. Instead of being under the plenum, like on the TPI & SR, the EGR would need to be located on top or on the side of the intake or remotely located.

 

Quickie 2 cents: How about an intake for the vortec style heads? With the low cost of these heads and a much improved LTR intake should prove to be a budget friendly powerhouse combo.

 

Some $0.02:
It's not only 3rd gens that would buy an EFI manifold. There's vette guys, swap guys, hotrod/custom guys, and tinkerers that love EFI and have some car with a SBC. Pairing it with a computer would sell well. I've got similar ambitions for a few years from now (I worked at an aftermarket EFI company before this job - now do OEM calibration and design in China, but want to come back to US aftermarket).

 

Thats what I was kind of thinking about.. not just 3rdgens,vettes, boats, rodders, street freaks.. It has to look good and perform great.

 

And be cost- and performance-competitive with other available options.

Which is where a manifold of that design, produced in small batches, will have trouble. It's GUARANTEED to cost more than the Stealth Ram, or a converted single-plane 4-barrel. People might pay that premium if it runs better. If it doesn't, they won't buy it, especially not for those "other" applications.

And on top of that, it needs to be "different" or "unique" enough, that you don't find yourself in an expensive court battle over somebody's IP. Talk about a REAL QUICK way to make a small fortune... start out with a big one, and get involved in litigation.

Making something that you're going to shrinkwrap and advertise for sale, is a WHOLE DIFFERENT BALLGAME from fabbing up a one-off for yourself. Again, go ask anybody that ever opened up a restaurant because they love to cook and everybody told them they had a good recipe for something, or somebody that loves the coffe-shop atmosphere so they opened one, for some RW experience on crossing over from hobby to profession. It becomes a whole different world.

 

Hi Tony, is your friend in the Houston area, I read about a guy over there having one for sale, but it was over 1600.00, I am shocked reading all the negative on the T Ram here as usually the Firehawk is a highly respected car, now after reading all of this I think of it as a Pinto!

I have to agree with the Third gen crowd being cheap and not wanting to pay anything for something, these cars are not woirth crap anymore, sadly! I want something to replace my stock 305 TPI in my '91 Formula. Andy

 

Wrong forum.