What times does it run, I didnt see any....

 

haha good idea, i didnt remove my old K/N's from the run, nor did i remove the TPI intake lid

if the track dont rain out i'll try removing the filters

Car ran 11.67 at 116.3 on a 1.59 60 foot. funny thing is this was with i estimate 375-380whp and 350-355 wtq peak but way less than 350wtq below 4500rpms unlike NOW with the new tune And the launch was around 75-80% throttle input. More of a slow roll into 100%. quick punch to 75% or so off the initial green light, then rolled into 100% once i knew it hooked. I'll try a near full one wednesday hope i dont break

SO with much more power and much flatter torque curve not to mention more torque peak, i do expect to go a good bit quicker.

 

"i didnt remove my old K/N's from the run,"

Okay you left power on the table right there. The two square filters on the Camaro do not have anywhere near the cfm flow needed for a motor of your size and potential.

K&N's flow 6.03cfm per square inch. To figure the square inches you have to subtract .75" from each width of the air filter when measuring for K&N's. I think you need 2.2 cfm per horsepower or is it 2.056. So for 500hp at the motor that would be 1100cfm.

 

interesting i didnt know that. I do have the filter box gutted and had a big fan feeding the front of the motor as i have ducting goin from fog lights to the filters.

i'm just trying to decide if i want to try 3.5" lsx sensor with translator that costs like 270 bucks, or if i should just try to mod the stocker into a aluminum or steel exhaust tube of 3.5"

 

A 3.5" cold air intake will do the trick. Air flows 146cfm per square inch at 28" of water. You are on the right track. Between the cold air intake and the exhaust upgrades(termination boxes) you will see a big jump in power.

Actually that is good news on the airfilters. You would have easily broken the 400rwhp mark without them.

 

I met a guy at a cruise that I went to on Saturday...with a auto 355 LT1 94 camaro runnin 7.0ish in 1/8th pullin a 1.4ish sixty all day long on the stock 10 bolt...with 4.10's
I couldnt believe it when he told me stock and he says he has never had a problem...full weight car with no suspension mods and that was all on motor. The motor was built by http://www.tick-performance.com/ stock bottom end
I asked what size cam it was and he couldnt tell me cause he didnt remember but he did say it was like 244/240 but he did say the car dyno around 400 with a 4800 stall non-lockup

 

One more thing if I remember correctly I don't think those Camaro air filters flow over 450cfm together. They are worse than the single TransAm air filter. That was choking your motor big time.

 

wont you risk getting all kinds of trash in the motor running without filters? like bugs and grit....I mean I understand not using them but is it worth the risk?

 

Not really, as long as the car is clean. Many snowmobiles run without filters. Its possible you could pull a bug in, but....

Procharger recommends NOT using an air filter with its larger blowers. Just arent any up to the task.

I've seen lots of turbo cars running the turbo right behind the grill with no filter.

Id run the filter to the track though...

 

i'd run the filter at the track and definately not on the street. my car will EAT up bugs in teh front. At the track there are very little bugs before nighttime. all the cars and gas fumes i'm sure gets rid of the bugs. alot of drag racers dont run filters

last time i raced without filters my car didnt improve at all, but that was a 254whp car

EDIT

about the 10 bolt, my buddy 87_TA has run his 10 bolt for years on his 10 second TA. many many 1.4x 60's and even a 1.38-1.39 on it!! nitrous sprayed 406 miniram setup that almost touched 9's! i hope i have as much luck as he did

I broke a 9 bolt with 3.27 gears on a mid 13 second car

 

I think you will have 11.5 seconds in the bag. Maybe more and then you will have to go home for the night.

 

Filters in??? Wait till you take those out... I think you will be quite surprised.

 

Orr, any chance you can get some video of your passes on your next night at the track? I'm sure alot of us would like to see/hear your ride in action.

 

i will see if i can get someone to take some more clips

 

When I asked from K&N about Camaro air filter flow,answer was this:
Jari,

Thank you for your interest in K&N products. 33-2008-1 will flow 263.7 CFM. 33-2008 has been updated and is now 33-2008-1

 

so two of those together is roughly 528? interesting

 

Only question is test pressure.Is it 1.5"hg(same as 20.4"h2o) 25"h2o or 28"h2o

 

Well K&N states 6.03 cfm per square inch. Orr all you have to do is measure across your filter on the red part only. Not any of the black. Then do the math. That will tell the tale on the filters you are actually using.

 

No point in the calc unless you plan on providing more filter area. I've seen more than one Camaro pull the filters and run considerably faster.

 

results are in... run with and without filters tonight and the gain may have been there, but it certainly wasnt drastic

workin on vids and making a new thread... i'll get back to you in a bit

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...d-383-hsr.html

see thread but basically i ran 11.59 at 118.08 with filters in on a 1.62 60 foot
next run doing pretty much same without filters i ran 11.53 at 118.2 on a 1.59 60 foot

car is getting up and out but filters are not holding this car back. now i'm wondering is the MAF and TPI lid really hurting me ?

 

Yea, 3" pipe compared to a 3.5" pipe for your CAI will make a big difference. That's more cfm for the throttle body. Probably worth a .1 or .2.

Without filters and a stock box, you gained .18 mph and took off .06 through the 1/4 mile. On a stock system, that's a good gain considering once you go below 12s, tenths are hard to come by.

 

60 foot tho was also .027 faster so the ET gain isnt impressive on the top end. i really dont think the Filters are hurting much

 

Doesnt sound like it, which is odd I have to say.

 

yes, does seem odd to me. like i said, last year i ran without filters and my car went a tad slower. i think those K/N's are good flowing for most motors. I think the TPI air box needs work but if i do a 3.5" and dont gain anything, i'll be upset thats for sure

 

Maybe the filters arent the chokepoint (if there is one) in your intake.

 

exactly i dont think its a choke, the air box and MAF may be and i'll be finding that out

 

I believe the filters are a choke point. So is the lid and the MAF. Improvements to all three and you will see a nice gain.

With the improvement in the intake airflow, exhaust system, traction, shift points and good cool air I think high 10's are obtainable. That would be amazing with a very streetable car and only 230 degrees of cam on the intake.

 

i know! if i touch 10.90's i'll be going insane. I mean the car is loud and does have a nasty cam sound to it, but its very streetable, dont let it fool you. very driveable even tho it sits low and you cant take it everywhere.

 

You can't have three choke points.

You could rig up a sensitive vacuum gauge in different parts of your intake system to find out where the choke point is. Instead of spending money on a new MAF.

I've never owned a tpi, or spent much time looking at one, so I dont even know how the intake is really set up, but I would imagine you could thread a port into a peice of pvc and clamp in between the maf and duct.

 

"You can't have three choke points."

Why not? Say the motor wants 800cfm at peak horsepower and rpm to achieve no air flow loss. The airfilters flow say 500cfm. The lid flows say 575cfm and MAF Flows 650cfm. Looks like 3 potential choke points to me.

The total flow will be less than the 500cfm of the airfilter. All of this at 28" of water.

 

So basically, what your saying is.....;



+



=

^ If he went with a RAII hood, of course....

 

Orr, check out Steve's custom sheet metal/carbon fiber setup....

Speed Density just might be a calling for you....

 

A choke point is the single worst flowing area. Well thats my definition. I didn't wiki it. lol. Using your example, say you bought a new MAF, you wouldn't see much power increase. Doing the filters first, would yield some power, then the lid, and finally the MAF. If you did the MAF first, you might get discouraged and think your intake is optimal.

I'm just saying that his air filters obviously aren't the chokepoint, currently.

You could follow the trends of other people but you won't know your intake is optimized until you measure it. Worth your time? I don't know, I just take interest in knowing exactly what is going on, and cutting out variables. And not wasting money.

 

Okay, I see the point you are making and I agree. Back to Orr's case I would say it is either the air filters or the lid which are worse offenders. The lid really necks down where it changes from a round shape to a pancake shape.

 

The ID of the air lid outlet is about same as ID of the MAF. Both are somewhat restrictions. I have the same situation running a 395 stroker. Therefore, to remove any doubt about restrictions, I bought 3.5"OD aluminum tubing and some rubber tubing (like for turbo connection) and fabricated my MEGA MAF. I simply cut a rectangular hole in the side of the aluminum tubing, cut away most of the plastic tube of the factory MAF, and stuck the MAF air tube and electronics inside the aluminum tube. I have figured that this MEGA MAF must be flowing at least 900CFM (goodby restriction). However, I had to make a similar change to the airlid. So with some extra aluminum tubing, I cut away the plastic outlit of the air lid, squashed the aluminum tube into an oval and cemented it into the back side of the air lid. Again no more air lid restriction. I also have a ram air effect going into both air filters.

However, with all this, I am not running as fast as Orr89rocz. But I think that the diff is mainly due to the SuperRam vs the HSR; plus my smaller cam.

 

yep, Doc has exactly what i'm looking to do except i'm not gonna mod the stock box, i'm making a 3.5" cold air tract to the battery area. Battery will be in the trunk.

doc's car with hsr and cam around my size will run very strong. thats basically our differences. i also got new updated afr's that should flowmore than the old 190's unless his is ported. That cam is pretty mild i bet in that 395 as my cam isnt exactly huge for a 383 cam increase is probly wroth 20whp and add the hsr, that could be 20-30 on the big end with the cam, he'll be near me

 

Doc, the SuperRam has some pretty good restrictions in it. Regarding the intake manifold runners that would be right behind the fuel injector bungs. With the runners there are some bosses that stick into the track and narrow things down quite abit.

I have a post going where we are really opening up the Super Ram intake system. It should flow some pretty good CFM when we are done and still maintain a reasonable cross section area. I think the modifications would really wake up your motor.

 

I made a promise to myself the last time I put the SR on top of my engine,, that the next time I have to remove it, it aint going back on, I will switch to the HSR!

EDIT:

Orr; when you fabricated the large MAF, you will have to change the MAF table scalers: I can give you what I used for my Mega MAF if and when you need them.

 

you'll love the HSR.

And yes i expected some massive modifications to the tables. I just hope it doesnt scew up my current dyno tune too much in the midrange where the MAF sensor is not quite pegged yet i'll probly retune it anyway just to get some numbers

 

FWIW:

MEGA MAF pic is in #10 post in the link below. The MAF with flow lid is in post #23.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...stand-maf.html

 

that should fix things 3.5" all the way. thats just preliminary construction. MAF isnt done yet. will do that tomorrow, but WOW is that TPI intake thin.

 

hey thats pretty slick!....where did you got the tubing? you gonna fab up the MAF in the middle of that somewhere or just go with another one?
i kinda wanna do the same thing but i dont wanna screw around with having to relocate my battery to the trunk....or even the drivers side. I got all my wires for my nitrous and stuff going to the battery..that would be alot to have to move.

on a side note...I got offer $15000 for my car....I was like huh? he is suppose to call me sat with the money..I dont think he is serious but we will see. I think he is FOS!

 

Now that is going to flow some air. The 3.5" pipe is good for over 1300cfm. Now your next job is getting a big air filter.

 

i got a AEM dryflow filter on the end of that pipe. simple 3.5 by 5inch. hope its enough. if not oh well, i could get a bigger one or take it off at the track.

i got the couplings on ebay under seller name sliconeintakes i think it was. Should beable to find it.

the two middle couplings are holding the MAF tube. MAF isnt done yet, but the tube is cut and ready to go. Just gotta cut hole in it and install MAF guts.

battery tray will be cut out so cold air can get in directly to filter

 

If you run the open air pipe you should have a bell mouth of some sort. Or maybe have your local muffler shop flair the end. With a pipe that big you might have to go somewhere that works on diesel trucks.

 

i can get a piece of dryer sheet metal that is belled open. probly 4 inch or 3inch but i can make it work

or i can get a 3.5" to 4 or 5 " adapter and it should work. there are options.

 

My 3.5" MAF construction. crappy cell phone pics. so far it turned out good, just letting the silicone sealant and quicksteel putty dry. i used the quicksteel to hold the pieces together then sealant around the seems.

stock MAF measures 2.8" inside diameter while this piece is 3.35 inches inside diameter. Should flow 50% more air now kinda wish i went 4"

 

Nice, very nice. That will flow some air. No air restrictions allowed. Got to keep the plenum at amospheric pressure at WOT. Hahahaha.

 

yeah i'm guessing over 900 cfm since stock is around 650 with screen gone.

2.8 inch stocker i assume flows 115cfm per square inch. thats 6.15 inch square. 707 cfm minus that sensor stuff obstruction, i assume just 1 inch square but its probly closer to 1.5-2" so actual cfm may be 500-600cfm.

my new one is 3.35 diameter which is 8.81 inch square. 1013 cfm. say 1.5" square restriction thats 840cfm.

either way its alot more flow.