Hello guys, lately I been wanting to swap out my HSR for a different intake. Am pretty happy with the HSR with my current combo (see sig) but later on I will be building a 406 sbc and need a higher flow intake for more top end power without too much port work and want better air distribution and I want to try this intake with on my current 350 .060 fisrt.

So I looked up at Professional Products EFI super hurricane intake which is good from 3500 to 7500rpm and I priced it at just above $700 with intake, fuel rails, AFPR, cable bracket and elbow. I will be using a 5.3 TB and keeping my 24lb ford injectors for now to use with the 350 am running now.

My only concern is does anybody know how much low end I will be loosing with this single plane intake as compared to the HSR with my current combo??? Do you guys think it will be worth the swap or should I just stick with a ported, polished and 1206 gasket matched HSR? I mean, I love the looks of the single plane efi intake and I think it will definetely be a fun project and, if I sell my HSR I should almost have enough money for the new intake.

So what do you guys think? anybody with this intake or similar want to chime in?? any opinions/suggestions are welcome.

 

I'm running a 406 and initially had a MiniRam on the motor. Last summer I swapped to a Victor EFI manifold and fuel rail kit. I admit that I have not done much tuning since the swap mainly because we moved, new job etc. Initial driving though revealed lean misses in the low and mid range which leads me to believe that the manifold is breathing differently. More even I would say. As far as low end power loss, I see none of that. With the combination of motor and converter, the motor flashes right past 4000 rpm. I built the 400 using the stock crank but went with 6.00" rods and flattop pistons. I also zero decked the block to keep the quench right at .040". I also run a solid roller. This motor has the most responsive throttle of any motor I've ever has.
Sorry for the long reply but don't be concerned with the single plane, you'll have more power than you know what to do with.

 

I cant see a HSR hurting a 406.. they flow 275 cfm per port before porting.. what heads are you looking to use on the 406?

 

thanks for the replys, am going with the AFR 220 with 2.08 and 1.60 valves or similar for the 406 project.

hitech5_ how do you think the intake will behave on top of my 350 .060 on bottom end?? I have a 3600 converter so that should help...I have a friend who can help me with tuning

 

With your converter, you shouldn't have a problem. On my single plane, I am able to use a 1" spacer which helps to create a slightly larger plenum. This fits under my stock TA hood. With the short runner intake, I found that the motor reponds well to aggressive ignition timing.

 

cool, and what do you think about the performance products efi intake??? looks a good deal for a complete set up for around $700...

 

got a link to parts?

 

uhm am not sure if this is against any rules but if it is mod please feel free to remove http://www.race-mart.com/professionalproducts.html

 

Not at all.

-- Joe

 

For $700 using PP parts you could run a 4bbl TB and not have to worry about the elbow
http://www.race-mart.com/Professiona...PPC-52039.html
http://www.race-mart.com/Professiona...PPC-10625.html
http://www.race-mart.com/Professiona...PPC-70201.html

 

eh its nice but the 4bbl tb is $300 while the elbow and ls1 adapter is like $200...the TB i already got it for free ...


somebody else has any more input on the performance of this intake or similar??

 

I've used both, and then another one.

The one that worked BEST was a mono blade mounted vertical with a spacer. That's an L31 vortec out of a 96-98
truck, and a big old spacer (1.5') milled to transition the wacky vortec bolt pattern to a 4150 4bbl flange. That car had
OUTSTANDING throttle response, but to fit a 'hat' or any type of free-flowing aircleaner you need a MINIMUM 2 1/2" cowl hood. I had this on a thirdgen ('89 formula) and it fit under a fugly fiberglass daytona cowl hood.

The 4bbl throttle body works well, but the progressive linkage is a little weird to tune AE transitions.

The LS1 throttle body with the elbow I used in 2008/2009 (you will find pictures around here somewhere). It works well, but if you don't get the angle right on the throttle body you will have some air distribution problems. Mine was designed by me after some airflow modeling by a buddy. I then sent the design to Aaron at intakeelbows.com and he made it up for me for I dunno maybe $225 or something.

Most of the 'as-cast' elbows have flow issues, such as the edelbrock line. They work, and for a 350 hp car they work just fine.

But since brand new V6 mustangs are more than 350hp, I'd expect your building something closer to the 500-550 range like me.

As far as the intake itself, I'm sure it's fine. I almost bought one, but I went with the Holley (again) singleplane. The PP intake is pretty close in specs, perhaps a hair taller. Some folks say the dividers are really crappy casting.

Procomp also makes the same intake, from the same casting as well as fuel rails, and a 1,000 CFM throttle body if you are interested in that route. I think the whole 'package' (throttle body,intake, rails) is like $499 last time I saw one posted on ebay new. You would want to get a regulator, which again, is like $29 from procomp. I saw one the other day which was adjustable from like 20-100psi with 1:1 boost reference for like $29 + 18 shipping..

Good luck!

-- Joe

 

I have a PP singleplane EFI intake in my garage waiting to go on a 406 for my cousin. The intake runners are big! and the casting isnt too bad. You could perhaps clean up the edges of the runner dividers, but it would be easy. We are using an Infinity Q45 throttlebody mounted vertically on a short spacer. On top of the throttlebody we will be using a 90degree elbow and some straight tube out to the long cone airfilter. Seems pointless to use a 90degree TB adaptor, unless the point is to look like the other guys.
The fuel rails have not been drilled yet, but i bought a 3 foot stick of fuel rail stock off ebay for around 35 dollars. A 4-bar bolt on fuel pressure regulator(chrysler turbo app, made by bosch) will most likely be on the end of one rail.

The runners are raised fairly high, and actually allow you to inspect the port matching visually while mounted on the heads. You can look down the plenum and see the whole port entry on most holes, and about 90percent on the others.
This engine build got delayed, but should be back on track in a month or two. I'll report here on how well it runs, I'm expecting it to be good.

 

Thanks for the info guys, but I still have a big question for you..some guy is interested on HSR so should I sell it and buy the PP set up and bolt it on my current 350 .060???? or should I just wait and keep my HSR til am ready to build the 406??? I just don't want to loose bottom end power with the PP intake since its power band is 3500-7500 when the HSR is idle to 6500...currently am shifting at about 6200. see mods in sig

 

Keep the Holley Stealth Ram. I have one on a 406 and had it ported to match my Brodix Track 1s and through the entire set-up it flowed just over 300cfm. I have a solid roller cam (street driveable) and have all the torque you want. It goes to 7000 with ease. I had to weld up the top of the HSR to port it to a 1206 but it wasn't that big a deal. It has a flat torque curve which is what you want. You can hide a small nitrous bottle inside one also or so I have been told.

 

I like the stealthram I was one of the first to ever have one. However having an Edelbrock intake really appealed to me considering they have the BEST flowing intakes for many years now! The key of having the Victor work for you is having a GOOD TUNER so that the idle to part throttle is made smooth in the tune.............my Lt1 was a double duty car for many years and now I have a new daily so you'll be seeing a victor soon. In conclusion both intakes are very good but to make the most of a victor your tuner has to be on point....

 

You will lose torque on a 350 with that intake. Probaly going to need some cleanup and portmatch work too. Cheap for a reason, some guys like em though.

Id keep what you have til the 406 comes along.

 

What is the difference in runner length between the HSR and the PP intake?

-- Joe

 

I found this info on PP website about their EFI single plane intake #52039:

The Super Hurricane is designed for large cubic inch engines. Many SB Chevys are being built today in the 421 to 430 cubic inch range yet racers are trying to run the same manifoldsthat were designed for 400 inches or less. Usually less. So if you have a big inch small block, or an alcohol engine of any size, you need to use a manifold that has been specifically designed for that type of engine. This manifold features a larger plenum and bigger runners. To our knowledge, there is no other 23° head intake manifold that has been specifically produced for big inch engines. Do not attempt to use this manifold on 350 to 400 inch engines as it will not make the same power as our Hurricane or Hurricane+Plus. This manifold has injector bosses and is available machined for injectors. Dyno tests show excellent results on injected engines even with the larger runners since the manifold runs dry.

I wish they had a dyno test on an injected 383 or 406 sbc...

 

PP runner length is 6.06" and HSR is 6.25" I thought the taller the runner the higher RPMs the intake will support

 

Shorter the runner the higher up the RPM band it moves.

I can't imagine a big difference between the two period. The only difference in terms of performance will be the single plane has better air distribution, but that assumes it's not screwed up with a crappy hat.

-- Joe

 

Subscribed!

I aslo have a 406, cast crank, 11.8:1 with some Chevy Phase VI Bowtie Heads. The motor currently stands with a .641/.629 (305/296 D)old mech roller Lazer cam, strip dominator and 1000CFM drag Demon from Barry Grant.

Trying to get away from a strip only set-up and go with injection. I want to make it a little more sane for some rare street and mostly strip. I was just comparing manifolds on Summit and then started searching thirdgen to find you all.

From that post above, I guess the Super Hurrinicane is off the list. I was looking into a SuperRam but the cost is probably not the best bang for the buck. I would love to keep everything under my stock fiberglass hood.

I have the heads getting flowed right now. Once I get the numbers, I will go search out a cam trying to stay under 7500 rpm. Once I get there, hopefully you guys can help me with the manifold selection. Ported HSR seems to be on the top of my list now.

 

IMO, single plane will outperform the box stock HSR above 6000 rpm if the single plane is well ported because alot of box stock cast carb style intakes do not flow well and require a good bit of porting to open up the runner cross sections.

HSR probably can be opened up alot and flow over 300cfm as I've read it flows around 260-275cfm as cast. In that case, I think it will support some good numbers on a 400" motor. I just dont know how big of a cross section you can get out of those intakes.
I know the miniram will support alot of power but havent seen any good track results with stealth ram on motors over 400 inches. Not many are using it on those builds it seems. I think it would do well. The single plane has been proven on carb setups to pull high rpm with 400+ inch motors so we know you can port them to support rpm.

I think they will have similar power bands in the 2000-6500 range, i agree with Anesthes. I got the victor E EFI port matched to 1205 gasket and on a 9 to 1 comp 401" motor, there is more torque on the low end than I know what to do with and thats before the turbos ever get going. Easily moves that car around with 2.73 gears! With good air distribution and short runners, it will perform very well on a big inch motor.

You cant go wrong with a single plane intake of any type.

 

Yes they flow 275 out of the box but Greg Vandeventer in Yale Oklahoma ports ZR-1 Corvette (90-95) heads and also ported my Brodix Track 1s and Holley Stealth Ram. He has a flow bench and all the equipment. I forgot his number but he works at mercury marine in Stillwater and lives in Yale Oklahoma. Get a HSR and he will fix it up to fit your application. Mention Allen Bray to him and you will probably get a discount. Greg is famous for the development of the LT5 ZR-1 motors of the 90s including the black widow motor that held the 24hr world speed record untill the new ZR-1.

 

If you're concerned about mixture distribution with the HSR, AND dont have a hood clearance issue you could just bolt on a weiand hi-ram plenum to the HSR base and run it downdraft with 2 TB's like a tunnel ram is designed to be in the first place.
Of course the hood thing is usually what limits a lot peoples' intake choices.

 

Hood clearance is a definate issue for me as I am trying to keep my setup under the factory T/A 4-vent hood. If I stay SBC and not LS-7 I will be going with a single plane using Accel's "Thruster" setup and at least a single turbo.

 

How do you translate head flow into tb cfm requirement? If you have a head that flows 325cfm at .600", then you need an intake to flow 325 but what would be the cfm requirement of the tb? I've used the cfm calculators based on cubes, rpm and VE, but just wondering the correlation to head flow since it is not appearantly 2 time head flow. (2.7 multiplier seems to work)

Do you run into the same problems with an oversized TB as you do with a oversized carb? Would you get diminishing returns after a certain throttle position? I felt that on my last motor, but the heads, intake and cam were not matched well.

I have a match ported Holly Strip Dominator intake now. I was thinking on the cheap of putting a FAST TBI on it, but the power band is 4500-7600. I measured the runners and they are around 5.75" long from head mounting surface to internal divider. (•Port Size: 2.05” height 1.22" width) I am thinking using this manifold with a tbi, machined to mpi or carbed for that matter would result in crappy low end drivability even with a manual.

Hopefully I will get flow numbers off the heads today.

 

oversizing the TB is not the same as overcarbing an engine. EFI does not rely on air velocity moving through a venturi to pull fuel in. The main problem with too big a TB is effectively loosing resolution on the TPS and having an over-sensitive throttle pedal.
You should be able to watch the datalogs and look at the maniofold pressure at WOT.

 

Any pics of this setup? I think I am trying to follow in your footsteps on it. I have some aluminum plate on its way and am going to be doing some saw work on it shortly. Probably won't be as nice as yours, but hopefully it will get the job done. I measured the GM TB and it seems ~75mm and they make an 80mm. Should be more than enough to make some serious power even stockish. How'd you do with it?

 

Which one? I ran two combos with an LS/vortec TB, and a few with a 4bbl.

The first one I ever did - home made intake:

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/p...e/racetime.jpg

This one was ugly but a great combo. Made around 560hp on a 355..

Then I used a holley with a 4bbl:

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/singleplane/12.JPG


The corvette was a holley with an elbow and LSx:

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/s...-ls1/complete/

The current setup - hurricane singleplane, holley 4bbl throttle body:

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/projects/formula/

-- Joe

 

Anesthes:

My future plan is to replace my TBI wirh a port fuel system and do the portmod to my EBL. I will run a single plane either a holley or vicjr which ever is shorter for height. My fiirst thought is a Accufab 4B TB or any other that is priced favorably. With my present low profile 2.5 inch carb/blower hat.

Will that fit under a 1984 C4 hood?

I believe it should. Currently it does with my Holley projection mani and 1.0 inch spacer to clear inj pod and the 7.4L TB and hat. I could maybe not use the spacer or use .50 spacer as currently I have two stacked.

Does procharger with procharger mounting plate also fit a C4?

 

The holley might fit under the stock hood witha throttle body designed for a drop base air cleaner. (the holley TB linkage hits).

The Fbody bracket kit will NOT work on the C4 (the blower would be in front of the tire), but procharger (or greg carroll) might have a kit available. I ran a powerdyne on my C4..

-- Joe

 

Thanks for the Vortec pic, that's what I was talking about. I've got a block of AL on the way to make an adapter plate from. What did you end up doing for the bonnet there? Is that the plastic one or something else? I'm thinking a silicone coupler at 3.5" and see how it fits. I don't think a 3" would stretch enough to do that. I figure some height (since I have a van, I have a bit extra) and it will probably flow more evenly.

 

The bonnet is actually a OE truck bonnet from an L31, but the hold down is not 'boost friendly', and it blew off the first time I used it at the track. Which required me to use the ugly strap to hold it down.

The way it works is it clips to the throttle body, and uses a sigle offset hold down. The clip can't deal with 15+ psi of boost.

-- Joe

 

So the plastic bonnet held up to that kind of pressure? Sort of surprised there was no rupture honestly. I'm thinking about a silicone coupler of some kind on my TB since I'll have the clearances.

 

15psi is not a lot of pressure.

I don't think a silicone adapter is going to work. The radius would be a lot, and I'm worried the flange on the vertical throttle bodies doesn't have enough to get a clamp on.

-- Joe

 

I have at least 6 inches above my TPI intake right now. No assurance I am good on height but I suspect I'd be pretty decent. I would probably step down to 2.5" right away, along with a 120 degree bend. SUmmit has a 3" 120 with a 3" radius so that's pretty decent IMO. I'm going FI with this eventually (part of my motivation for ditching the TPI is that the TB hits where I want to stick my turbo and I want to redo my accessories again) so I'm thinking it might not be a big deal. The way I was intending on keeping it on the TB was to use a set of tabs and bolt it down basically. I never have seen a TB I thought "man that will hold a silicone coupler great under boost" yet. Maybe they're out there, I haven't found em.

Those bonnets were really only for atmosphereic pressure to my knowledge. that's why ultimately I'm surprised it held up. How long did you run it and how much boost? If it's enough I may just do something like that and not sweat the details.

 

I ran that combo for two seasons. So that's every week friday and sunday (street night, and points day) at the track, plus two and from the track and a little around town.

In late October of the second season, I started adding advance and playing with alky injection to see if I could get more than 120mph out of it. I ripped the tops off two pistons.

-- Joe

 

FWIW
My Victor E with a Accufab TB came of a '96 C4 using this 4" high EV hat
http://www.racepartsdirect.com/produ...oducts_id=3313

but remember the '84 hood has a different profile underneath due to the ducting to the CFI that the TPI /LT1 cars