Which would you use? Would you consider dual plane?
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,028
Likes: 93
From: DC Metro Area
Car: 87TA 87Form 71Mach1 93FleetWB 04Cum
Which would you use? Would you consider dual plane?
I asked a similar question on a different forum a while ago but after reading a bunch of the posts here and since a lot of you here have built your own which I feel gives a different perspective I'm hoping that you can give me some insight on intake/conversions and TB choices. I have a bunch to choose from, and everything I'm considering will have similar/enough top end, so I'm asking from the perspective of distribution (really air if you're talking FI, but most will call it fuel, this thing will see boost), driveability/low end (it's going on a small cube engine) and of course there is some coolness factor (I love the look of a clean TPI, I hate working on them, I think the HSR is dead ugly so that's out...). If you guys don't know me I'd rather build than by, so I’ll love “you have this and this, mill this and use this…” ideas.
Intakes :
1- Edelbrock Performer RPM Airgap- I have one sitting around, these ports are every bit as big as a Vic Jr, a little more runner and a straighter shot at the head. Every carbed test out there you end up with a faster car with one than with any of the competitors, dual or single plane. This one would be the most work, I haven’t converted it for EFI yet, but measured it all out, I can make it work with a Vic Jr fuel rail injector spacing, and _it looks like_ I can rock the injector bungs over at least 15* from vertical and still make it work. I don’t know if anyone has ever tried if a dual plane efi conversion still has any of the advantages over single plane (I understand the carb signal differences). This one will be the most work, but will also be the most unique and I’m all about it if it will give me more mid/low and not hurt the top end.
2- Vic Jr- Conversion that I did years ago starting with a _very nicely_ ported older (it has the slightly straighter, slightly less curved runners than the current design, but someone did a lot of welding and cutting to make the runners very nice) vic jr manifold I got off ebay. The injector pads that I put on it mount the injectors straight up (which it looks like the Victor E and others do also), and I’m debating if I really think that the injector angle really makes enough difference to re-cut them at an angle (probably about 15-20* again) and just drop some bungs in the pads that I welded.
3- Victor E- yea, I have one, can’t tell you why I’m not as excited about it than 1 & 2, but I guess this would be the easiest to run. (have rails and stuff for this one)
4- Accel Pro Ram- I told you I have a lot of choices, this one excites me less than the Victor E, it looks a lot like someone just put together all the parts that you need for an FI intake with no thought of design or performance “we’ll make a single plane with injector bungs and people will give us $$$” (have rails and stuff for this one)
5- LT1 conversion- I have 2 or 3 of these intakes sitting around, one that I converted back in the day, lots of choices and easy to do….
What would you go with?
TB choices next
Intakes :
1- Edelbrock Performer RPM Airgap- I have one sitting around, these ports are every bit as big as a Vic Jr, a little more runner and a straighter shot at the head. Every carbed test out there you end up with a faster car with one than with any of the competitors, dual or single plane. This one would be the most work, I haven’t converted it for EFI yet, but measured it all out, I can make it work with a Vic Jr fuel rail injector spacing, and _it looks like_ I can rock the injector bungs over at least 15* from vertical and still make it work. I don’t know if anyone has ever tried if a dual plane efi conversion still has any of the advantages over single plane (I understand the carb signal differences). This one will be the most work, but will also be the most unique and I’m all about it if it will give me more mid/low and not hurt the top end.
2- Vic Jr- Conversion that I did years ago starting with a _very nicely_ ported older (it has the slightly straighter, slightly less curved runners than the current design, but someone did a lot of welding and cutting to make the runners very nice) vic jr manifold I got off ebay. The injector pads that I put on it mount the injectors straight up (which it looks like the Victor E and others do also), and I’m debating if I really think that the injector angle really makes enough difference to re-cut them at an angle (probably about 15-20* again) and just drop some bungs in the pads that I welded.
3- Victor E- yea, I have one, can’t tell you why I’m not as excited about it than 1 & 2, but I guess this would be the easiest to run. (have rails and stuff for this one)
4- Accel Pro Ram- I told you I have a lot of choices, this one excites me less than the Victor E, it looks a lot like someone just put together all the parts that you need for an FI intake with no thought of design or performance “we’ll make a single plane with injector bungs and people will give us $$$” (have rails and stuff for this one)
5- LT1 conversion- I have 2 or 3 of these intakes sitting around, one that I converted back in the day, lots of choices and easy to do….
What would you go with?
TB choices next
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,028
Likes: 93
From: DC Metro Area
Car: 87TA 87Form 71Mach1 93FleetWB 04Cum
Re: Which would you use? Would you consider dual plane?
TB choices (a little concerned about my best choices being big for small cubes)….
- Stock TPI TB
- 52mm TPI TB (stock one that I bored/blended…)
- 58mm TPI TB (Maybe LT1, would have to look, but I have appropriate TPS and IAC for either)
- Vortec truck style with the restrictor removed and ported (did this years ago, would have to go look to see how big it is).
- Ported LS (I think 75mm) and fabricated aluminum elbow
- Big 4 bolt accufab 90mm with matching cast precision turbo elbow
- 1000cfm 4bbl accel
- A pile of assorted ford TBs 65mm and up, I’m sure I have other interesting stuff around also
With the TPI style TB’s I can make an elbow to mount it, that would take up the least space/easiest to use with the thermostat housing, but I’d be _really_ tempted to take a TPI plenum, weld the runner holes shut and weld a 4bbl carb plate to the bottom just for looks (and I suspect that extending the plenum past the plate opening would help distribution).
FWIW, hood clearance isn’t really an issue, I’d love for it to fit under the stock TA hood but I have a formula hood and a 2.5” (maybe 2”) harwood cowl on the car now anyway.
- Stock TPI TB
- 52mm TPI TB (stock one that I bored/blended…)
- 58mm TPI TB (Maybe LT1, would have to look, but I have appropriate TPS and IAC for either)
- Vortec truck style with the restrictor removed and ported (did this years ago, would have to go look to see how big it is).
- Ported LS (I think 75mm) and fabricated aluminum elbow
- Big 4 bolt accufab 90mm with matching cast precision turbo elbow
- 1000cfm 4bbl accel
- A pile of assorted ford TBs 65mm and up, I’m sure I have other interesting stuff around also
With the TPI style TB’s I can make an elbow to mount it, that would take up the least space/easiest to use with the thermostat housing, but I’d be _really_ tempted to take a TPI plenum, weld the runner holes shut and weld a 4bbl carb plate to the bottom just for looks (and I suspect that extending the plenum past the plate opening would help distribution).
FWIW, hood clearance isn’t really an issue, I’d love for it to fit under the stock TA hood but I have a formula hood and a 2.5” (maybe 2”) harwood cowl on the car now anyway.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,028
Likes: 93
From: DC Metro Area
Car: 87TA 87Form 71Mach1 93FleetWB 04Cum
Re: Which would you use? Would you consider dual plane?
Ok, how about a response that doesn't make me want to gouge my eyes out?
Re: Which would you use? Would you consider dual plane?
With boost, I'd lean towards the larger of the single planes you have. If the ProRam you have is one of the later model Motowns made by World Products, it fared well in the carbed intake shootout below - it's the same intake without the injector pads machined. If not, I'd take a look at the runners of the intakes in the shoot out and see which "design" best matches that Victor E to get an idea of what it might do.
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 70
Likes: 4
From: Clearwater , Florida
Car: '87 Vette C4
Engine: 400 + .040 = 409 ci
Transmission: 700R4 built
Axle/Gears: Dana 44 w/3.42's
Re: Which would you use? Would you consider dual plane?
..... OK , the most complicated EFI bung install will be on the Air gap dual plane , but it will definitely rank high on the coolness meter ... if hood clearance isn't an issue , use a 4bbl throttle body with a carb hat ... the Accel 4bbl TB has progressive throttle linkage that might help out with air velocity for the smaller cubes ........
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