LAFireboyd

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7/21/2020: Due to the release of the all-new, 3rd generation Tru-Projector in 2014, the 2nd generation Tru-Projector I have, about which this thread was created on 5/14/2013, was discontinued by GTR Lighting at that time, in 2014. However, also at that time, 2014, a product exactly like this, most likely the exact product, began being offered by Dapper Lighting, and they're still available today, directly from Dapper and also from Classic Industries(post #46, #47). Also per this update, cleaned-up some posts, due to pictures and links that are no longer active.

https://www.dapperlighting.com/produ...-projector-kit

PICTURES in posts #1, #2 and #19.

Projector headlights and HID are currently popular topics and have been for a couple of years now. Several Camaro owners have successfully updated/retrofit their headlights. But due to the constraints of a 3rdgen Firebird's pop-up configuration, Firebird owners have had no options. But now there's a projector headlight for us too: Tru-Projectors, by GTR Lighting.

Tru-Projectors are not "projector-style" fakes; they're real projector headlights, and they'll pretty much drop-in. They're professionally-built and American-made. They feature Bi-Xenon mini projectors in 7x6 headlight housings, choice of black or chrome reflector housings, a "city light"(housing accent light), glass lenses, relay harnesses, H1 single beam Halogen bulbs, and they're DOT approved. You can upgrade to brighter xenon-style bulbs. HID is available too, 35W or 55W, in the temp/color of your choice.

The owner of Headlight Revolution/TLG-Auto is a Fiero enthusiast, and he has videos online to demonstrate the products he offers. If not for Chris' love for Fieros, and his friends at GTR Lighting, these would not exist!

I got black housings to coordinate with my LED DRLs/turn signals, linked here:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...rls-stock.html
But I've seen the chrome housings too, and they're even nicer and would probably appeal to more people than the black. But black or chrome, the housings are for appearance-only and have nothing to do with the projected light.


The "city light" is an accent light built into the housing. With chrome housings, its light reflects around the projector. I removed it and plugged its hole.

GTR's HID kit is also American-made and will probably outlast several of the low-quality HID kits that most people buy, but any brand of HID kit will fit too. It has a lifetime warranty; the ballasts are virtually indestructible; light and color temps are always bright and stable; bulbs are ceramic-based for heat control; warm-up time is minimal, just turn on your headlights and go. I got 55W/6000K and an additional set of 8000K bulbs.

But you don't have to use HID with these headlights. There are plenty of good-quality inexpensive bright "xenon-style" off-the-shelf and online H1 Halogen bulb options that will work too. After all, contrary to many peoples' beliefs, projector headlights were NOT developed for HID lighting. Projectors were introduced 10 years before HID was adapted to automobiles, and they used halogen bulbs. So you can add an HID kit of your choice anytime down the road.

Plug-and-play. The ONLY modification required is to cut-off the two "fins" from the back of each headlight mounting ring so the hole is large enough to accommodate the rear of the projector(already cut-off in the pics below), but I suspect you'd have to do that for any aftermarket headlight housing that uses replaceable bulbs. Or you might be able to simply bend-back those two fins to widen the hole, rather than cut them off. And if you'll be keeping the city light, then you'll need to drill a hole in each mounting ring to access it. That's all, and Tru-Projectors will fit and function in the stock pop-up assemblies.

I mounted the ballasts to the bottoms of the headlight assemblies with existing body bolts. And I secured the relays to the bumper cover/fender studs with push nuts. So everything is out of sight.



Some Firebird owners have built their own projector headlights, and most deleted their pop-ups to do it. Parts, alone, cost $200-$300, then when you consider the HUGE amount of TIME involved, plus the frustrations and unexpected costs that come with DIY projects, the total investment was probably more than the cost of Tru-Projectors.

But I had no intention of deleting the pop-up headlights; they're a signature characteristic of the 3rdgen Firebird and an integral part of its exterior design. And I had no desire to try to build my own. For something as important as headlights, I wanted them professionally-made, of good quality, with great performance, designed to fit right, installs easily, looks good, and I can enjoy it immediately. Tru-Projectors are all that.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Testing one Tru-Projector resting on the front of the car, 6000K is white with a hint of blue, 8000K is slightly bluer, but neither color looks as blue in person as it looks in the photo; photographed light tends to look bluer than it really is. Both colors look very good with the 55W system, particularly 8000K, but I chose 6000K because it's a better match to the light from the DRLs.

One Tru-Projector with 6000K


One Tru-Projector with 8000K


The Tru-Projectors' light is full and wide, and the entire foreground is brightly-lit; there are no steaks of light, no shadowing, and there's no dark space between the front of the car and the point where the light hits the pavement.

For some perspective, the overhead doors in the pics are 50' away, and they're 15' on center.

I think it's obvious, but perhaps I should mention that the light output you're seeing in the pics is slightly more than HALF of the width of the projected beam of light. The car sits across from the left-most overhead door. On that door you can see the "step" in the cut-off, which is the center point of each headlight's beam pattern. There isn't a surface to the left of that door for the other half of the beam to project onto. So the actual light output is almost twice as wide as you're seeing in the pics.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I realize this kind of sounded like an ad lol, but just to be clear, I'm not affiliated with TLG or GTR, and I'm not receiving anything for showing these. I bought them just like anyone else would; they were not "donated." I have talked to Chris on the phone about these before buying them, and because I think there could be a market for him with 3rdgens, but we don't know each other.

While searching for better headlights for my Formula last winter, I came upon his website because of his offerings for Fieros. Seemed natural to check it out, right? After all, the Fiero is a "cousin," so if his products fit Fieros, they'd probably fit Firebirds too. And these do.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

They look like they function pretty well, but man they are expensive. I've only got about $200 in my retrofitted projectors along with the HID kit, and those GTR housings start at $360.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Your project is a good example of the point I made in my original post about DIY.

Ruckusz28

iTrader: (3)

That's a big improvement. My headlights need adjusting. Since lowering they aim at the ground. One more thing on the list!

Caleb Taylor

Man i'd love to put these on my car.. but for almost $350-$400.... thats crazy.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

@Ruckusz28

Have you tried readjusting the headlights back up? Also these GTR lights are the wrong size for a camaro...I assume that's what you have based on your user name.


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LAFireboyd

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When I first saw these, I thought exactly the same thing.

Then I analyzed DIY projector headlight builds, and I realized that Tru-Projectors are comparably-priced when compared to the REALTIME costs of DIY--unless you're the person who DIY, of course, because DIY-ers don't account for realtime costs. And the excellent quality of Tru-Projectors makes them an even better deal when compared to the usually-questionable quality of DIY products.

But it's nice to see people's DIY projects because they can provide inspiration and motivation, and we can see the good things to do, as well as bad things not to do. But how often do we see someone else's DIY product and find it acceptable for us? Not often. DIY results are usually only acceptable to that particular DIY-er, rarely universally appealing. That's not an insult, it's simply the nature of DIY projects.

But since DIY-ers apparently place no value on their time and boast about how little their projects cost them, if they're willing to build and sell them to people strictly for the cost of the parts, no labor, and no other associated costs for doing business, then by all means, let them do it, and 6-8 months later(that seems to be how long their projects take) people might finally receive a set of headlights. But most likely they'd charge, at least, $100-$150 for those additional costs, and you'd end-up paying about the same as you would for Tru-Projectors, and you'd be stuck with someone's DIY version, for better or worse, rarely for better, usually for worse. And that's nothing I'd be installing on my car.

The price of Tru-Projectors does seem high, at first glance, but it's easily justifiable if you take the time to look at what you're getting, and the quality is excellent in every aspect. So if anyone is critical, then it's just speculation because it's not likely they'd have any firsthand experience with them, so I'd hope people wouldn't be easily swayed by negativity. But I expected this, so I'm not worried about it. I'm just letting Firebird owners know that they do exist, because that's been the big mystery--like Santa when he finally saw the M&Ms lol. They do exist! And they are worth it.

Two other things that seem to have been overlooked, even though I did mention them in my original post... We all read of people complaining about being overrun these days by poor quality "cheap" import parts, longing for good quality American-made parts. Then there's the DOT approval. So here are just more aspects showing that Tru-Projectors are everything people have been asking for.

BUT... obviously, better modern headlights are not something most people are interested in. So for them, yes, I can see where these would seem expensive. But if you're someone who truly is looking for something better, and isn't interested in making his own, then the price is very fair, especially for the excellent quality product you'll be getting.

Mailman818

i just did this retrofit yesterday and managed to get 3 inch projectors with flip up lights on it. it looks kinda funky with the small diamenter lenses in them. mine took up alot of time to make like 40+ hours but they look amazing so ive been told.
mine cost me around 400 bucks?? probably less. i spent like 180 for the projectors and 30 for the housings plus another 70 for the hids. ill try to get some pictures

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Sounds good Mailman. Love to see pics.

Chris at TLG told me that he'd experimented with 7x6 headlights with larger projectors, but they were the Starr HIDs, not a retro-fit style headlight, and they didn't quite fit. That was in a Fiero, not a Firebird. So it will be interesting to see your 3" projector retro-fits in the pop-ups.

Caleb Taylor

I can't lie to you, i posted that off of first impulse but after reading that i totally agree with you and couldn't agree more. You've basically sold me on then, when the money comes, the headlights will be ordered. I was contemplating retro fitting, not worth it IMO, if one thing goes wrong? Everything's gotta be altered. Thanks man, seriously.

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

Dude you totally sound like a paid salesman. lol


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LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Hi Caleb, I apologize if you felt like I was ranting at you because I was not. I appreciated your comment. It wasn't just negative; it had the positive, along with the concern. And it's probably what most people were thinking about. So I took your comment and ran with it. It gave me a chance to ramble, which I do very well lol, and it was meant in a general way, not personally directed toward you. And now you've made another good point that I'm going to run with for a moment.

It's good to think about a high-end purchase before making it. Planning for it, saving for it, that's important. People just don't wake up one morning and say, "I think I'll buy some headlights today" lol. I sure didn't.

I searched and searched, then I was in touch with Chris at TLG for almost two months before I finally did it. And even when I was ready, I had second thoughts about it because this was going to be experimental. Chris' markets were Fieros and Toyotas, along with some trucks that also had 7x6 headlights. Firebirds were new to him. Neither of us were sure if they'd fit a Firebird--seemed like they should, but you never know. So he gave me dimensions and pictures, I examined and measured, and it looked like a tight fit, but a fit nonetheless. So this was a risk. I was the first Firebird owner to try these, that he knew of anyway. Then when they arrived, I was like, ok, they're nice, but were they going to be worth it?

Test fitting them, it was obvious that those two fins would have to be removed from the mounting rings(shown in the pics), but that would have to done with any aftermarket headlight, cheap or high-end. After I did that, they dropped right in and fit perfectly. So I started getting excited lol. But then when I lit one up to test it, I was like, ok, I'm sold, grinning from ear to ear lol.

Financially, the timing was right for me, or I probably wouldn't have done it at this time. But I did it, and I'm very glad I did. These are excellent, and they couldn't be any easier to install. So it's good for anyone to be sure he's ready to buy something like this, or any high-end product for that matter. Nobody should be strapping himself financially for a set of headlights.

So again, Caleb, I appreciate your comments, thanks. And if you, or anyone else, does decide to get these, I'm sure you'll be pleased. But to anyone, take your time and feel comfortable that you want to do it. I was the guinea pig lol, so believe me, I understand how anyone else might feel. But having done the testing, I am confident in the product. It's good.

And no, I'm not a paid salesman lol. Just a satisfied customer. And as I've said a few times already, these are not for everyone. But for the few Firebird owners who've been interested in something like this--that fits--these really are everything we've been asking for.

Mike92Firebird

iTrader: (3)

Awesome job here! I've seen these before and wondered if someone was going to pull the trigger and buy them. Haha. Looks like they've got a really nice light output! I am one of the only other Firebirds on here running real projectors as well. I did mine a little differently though.

Caleb Taylor

Once again convincing me to go ahead with it, i'll most likely do it when i strip down and re-do my car this winter!

6SIX6

iTrader: (35)

Awsome job man and glad to see there is a write up on making the headlights better on firebirds and T/A's. The one thing I think we can agree on is the headlights suck on 82 - 92 f-bodies period. Anything to improve vision at night is a bonus. I do all my driving at night and to spend that kind of money is worth it to me personally.

Caleb Taylor

Possibly purchasing these with my next check!

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

2007xl50

Not bad, but I just don't like projectors on any 3rd gen. The stock headlights on both cars just fits the look so well.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I also think the stock appearance is important. That's what's nice about Firebirds. During the daytime(with the headlights closed) the car retains its stock appearance. But when they're open at night the driver can benefit from superior modern lighting.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I agree. Whether in my Formula or my DD, nighttime is my favorite time to drive.

carlos64030

iTrader: (1)

It sure would be nice if they made those in sizes for the '91-'92 Firebirds. I'd buy a set right now if they did.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I don't think the H4666 headlight was commonly used, so it might be difficult finding something that fits a 91-92 Firebird. It would have to be something compact like this 7x6 Tru-Projector, but in a 4x6 housing. Perhaps there's something for 93-97 Firebirds out there; they also used the H4666 headlight.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Those look great. For folks that don't like the projector look on firebirds, if you get the chrome housing instead of black and use an LED 194 bulb, it should illuminate the housing well enough that it will look like a 'normal' headlight when illuminated.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Yes, very good point, Jim. I've seen a set of chrome, and they look awesome. I think most people would find them more appealing than black. I almost got them, but I chose black because I liked how its appearance coordinated with my DRLs.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Price is actually not too bad when compared to previous Proj/HID kits.
Boyd, are those cree LEDs in your DRLs?

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Apparently they're Eagle Eyes, and they're switchbacks. Here's a link to my thread on the DRLs. Within the thread is a link to the product.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/auto...rls-stock.html

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

I see, in the pics they look like cree type LEDs.

Keoman

iTrader: (3)

I didn't see any depth measurements on the website, any chance you could measure it real quick?

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

If I have time after work today I'll stop in and measure, but since they're installed I don't know how accurate I can be.

IIRC, the depth is between 5"-6" from the chrome trim ring(painted it satin black) to the end of the plug. The only concern for fitment was going to be the headlight cover, but that didn't end-up being an issue. If these were 1/4" deeper the back of the plug would've hit the underside of the headlight cover, but it doesn't. And there's a lot of free space within the bucket area for up-and-down motion, so no chance for interference in that regard. They fit as perfectly and precisely as is possible.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

The depth from the edge of the glass(where the trim ring slips over to hold the housing into the mounting ring), to the tip of the bulb's rubber pigtail is about 5-1/4". That's trying to measure with them mounted. It wouldn't be much more than that or they wouldn't fit, and they do fit.

On TLG's website they also sell a 7" round Tru-Projector, and there's a pic of one laying on a tape measure, showing a depth of about 5", maybe slightly over. So my measurement of 5-1/4" is probably pretty accurate.

Stangski09

iTrader: (10)

Does water infiltrate these like they do with every other aftermarket option?

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I don't know that water leaks into every other aftermarket option. But I did ask about that before I got them, and I was told they would not leak.

Now, for myself, living in SoCal where it rarely rains, as well as the car being only a fair weather weekend car, I wasn't overly concerned about the issue because the car isn't likely to be out in the rain.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

7/10/2016. This post used to contain a video demonstrated the headlight-operation, showing pop-up functionality, as well as my LED DRLs/turn signals. The video had audio, and you could hear the headlight motors. The early part of the video also featured the LED DRLs. But the video was hosted on Street Fire, an affiliate of Car Domain, but Street Fire no longer exists.

Stangski09

iTrader: (10)

Can someone confirm if water infiltrates the housings?

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

The best way to get your answer would be to contact the manufacturer and/or the vendor, of which I am neither; I'm just a customer.

I've been told that they won't/shouldn't leak, but I won't be pouring water over mine, nor will I be uninstalling them to do a submersion test.

Sorry I couldn't be more help. Try going to the source.

stealtht/a

iTrader: (1)

Those look great! My next big purchase after shocks!
Curse on any who complain of price when companies make high end stuff for our cars!

Stangski09

iTrader: (10)

What im asking is when the headlights are down and the car gets rained on, does water enter the housings or are they sealed nicely.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Again, sorry, but I can't answer your question. And since I'm probably the only person with these headlights, your best bet is to try contacting GTR or TLG directly.

Mad Myche

I'd love to see them for actual performance... but I don't think you'll be driving to Milwaukee anytime soon. Impressed that one of these kits is actually using a housing that is DOT/SAE marked- but that HR code means it is Halogen, not HID

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

7/21/2020. Nevermind these original LED kits from back in 2014 that used to be linked in this post. They were pretty much a failure. This type of replaceable LED kits have come a long way during the last 6 years, and the new stuff is outstanding.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

I've just been informed that this Tru-Projector that I have is at an end. Stock has apparently been depleted, and no more of this model will be produced by GTR Lighting. However, check out post #45 for an update as to the future of the this headlight, as it apparently will continue to exist.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

...

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

In post #43 I mentioned that my 7x6 Tru-Projectors, GTR Lighting's 2013 version of the product, about which this thread was created, are no longer available, having been discontinued because GTR released its newly-redesigned 2014 Tru-Projectors(linked in post #44). However, this 2013 Tru-Projector headlight that I have has been picked-up by our friends at Classic Industries, just not listed as "Tru-Projectors," as that name belongs to GTR Lighting. So check out CI if you're interested in this particular 7x6 projector headlight for your 1982-1990 Firebird.

Classic1

Hi LAFireboyd,
Your comment has come to our attention. We'd like to clarify that we do indeed offer both the 7" Round and 7x6 Rectangular Projector Style headlamps in both chrome and black. Here is a link to the product for more information about them.
We'd also like to inform you of our Independence Day Promotion. Forum members can get "up to 20% off" any order placed by midnight July 6th, 2014. Use Code FRE144 to receive the discount. Hope this information and sale code helps!

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

Hi Ray. Thanks for the confirmation.

These excellent headlights are still available, now from well-known 3rdgen-friendly vendor, Classic Industries, at a great price, and it gets even better with Classic's discount codes.

Ray provided a link in his post above, but here are more direct links to Classic's listings:
http://www.classicindustries.com/fir...ts/152830.html
http://www.classicindustries.com/fir...ts/152831.html

Thanks, again, for the update, Ray.

Agent13

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for the updates. I'm trying to decide on whether I should purchase the 2nd or 3rd gen....

LAFireboyd

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7/21/2020. All of the links in this post were dead. But the original vendor, TLG-Auto, has diversified and expanded throughout the years, with multiple websites. Currently, as of this edit, The company is Headlight Revolution.
https://headlightrevolution.com/

If you can't find what you're looking for at HR, or from a former competitor, TRS(The Retrofit Source), then it probably doesn't exist. Yes, I said TRS is a former competitor. For 2020, Headlight Revolution and The Retrofit Source have joined forces and reside in Atlanta, at the home of TRS. The size of this combined operation is freaking insane!

wgripp

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deleted