At what point in time should I install sub frame connectors to my camaro? Yes, it is a T-Top.

 

I am of the opinion, unless you are building a factory correct original, all T-Top cars should have sub frame connectors, regardless of "mild to wild".

 

I am looking at Hotchkis because I am looking at rebuilding a 4 bolt main 350 with a mild cam and bored .40 over with dish pistons.

 

IMHO as soon as you drove it off the dealer's lot back in the 1980's, 90's lol

Meaning I feel every third gen out there, be it 4, 6, or 8 cyl car, stock or modded should have weld in SFC on them. Heck I think GM should have done it.

 

I agree

 

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/up...2/model/camaro

even looking at the ones from summit to

 

UMI's are really good. I have Spohn's on mine

 

I have a 91 vert and am looking at sub frame connectors from Top down Solutions. They say these are designed for verts and was wondering if anyone used these and are they any good. There are alot of choices out there. these are inside connectors.

Thanks

 

Those Alston parts from TDS are what I plan to add when the time comes.

 

Agreed. My initial answer was "yesterday". Which is, do it before any other modification.

I went with Global West "outer" SFCs. The Alston/TDS inners can ALSO be done.

 

You should have the riveted in place subframe connectors already if it's the factory authorized conversion. The subframe connectors from UMI still work in conjunction with the factory connectors. Every car should have at least the connectors the vert came with.

 

I agree. I put UMI's under both of our 3rd Gen's.

 

Yes it is an ASC conversion with the riveted angle. Would it help yo have those welded?

 

http://umiperformance.com/catalog/in...roducts_id=127

I have those on the 91 convertible and they fit great and run alongside the factory connectors. You could weld in the factory connectors and it would probably help but you could skip all the trouble and use these. If you have welding capabilities you could make your set easily enough. I'm making my own inner set out of 1"x2" tubing and 1/8" metal plate.

 

I have owned plenty of 3rd gens and the only ones that held their shape and didn't have door sag issues were the ones with connectors. I parked my 86 on weird angle driveway once and when I went to put the t-tops on that night they wouldn't line up right. Had to back the car onto the street to get them on lol! Granted that car had some hidden rust issues I hadn't found yet, but it was still funny.

 

I have a question about lifting the car with lets say UMI sub frame connecters installed.
I've seen photos of the rear right tire lifting when the front right "A" arm is being used as a jack point.
Is that typical with the lift spots on a Third Gen and beefy SFC like the UMI's.


I don't think I would mind because its better then twisting the car but a extra jack stand or two could be in order.

 

Yes Sir! That is how good the chassis/body gets tied together with good SFC. Before the roll cage in mine with just SFC I could lift both wheels on 1 side up just with one jacking point.

Now with a 10 pt cage in mine, with the jack placed just right, 3 of the wheels will lift up at the same time.

 

Picture floating around of a Camaro with inner and outers, over a curb with a wheel dangling and that corner isn't sagging.

When I bought my 91 convertible this year I thought it would have door sagging and panel alignment issues. Didn't have any, thanks to the factory connectors. My 92 with Ttops has some door sagging I've had to adjust.

 

Nice......

 

I used jegster subframe in my iroc. They are bolt in. I bolted them in and they fit very tight. I also welded them in completely. They do not hang low at all and fit snug against the rocker pinch weld. I was able to weld the pinch weld to the subframe connector almost the length of the connector

 

Check out S&W race cars. They have a nice set with cross member

 

I have the Hotchkis. They made a difference but like everyone else will agree on here, GM should have had them factory installed. Hotchkis are welded so you need a guy that knows what he is doing. I did not trust bolt on, just my own preference. They are fine for my application and gives a bit of subtle performance look. The car feels way better with less T-Top squeak and cracking. You will need to modify your exhaust line.
Hotchkis are squared and pretty basic. For better strengthening, I believe tubular is the way to go. SPOHN has some nice ones with 3 points attached and welded to the floor. I would go with those ones if I had to do it all over again. You would need to strip the carpets though for fire prevention while welding!!!

Check out the picture on SPOHN site

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...me-Connectors/

 

After 27+ years of driving my '88 IROC, it's time for SFCs (probably UMI 2400-R or Spohn). Not sure if I'll do it this year before the car hibernates or next spring.

I have but two simple questions:
1. Should a full alignment be done before having the SFCs welded on? I had one done about 2k miles ago.
2. Speaking of welding. It's said that the carpet should be pulled up. Foolish me, i just put RAAMmat BXTII + Ensolite down this summer. Potential issues with the BXT above the weld--other than melting?

thanks.

 

I don't see a need for alignment unless it would be so out of whack that it would flex your structure... Not likely! Maybe you want to considerer replacing struts, shocks and coil first to ensure the right ride height but that's all my 2¢ worth brain can think of. The car should be sitting on "ramp hoist" to keep the structure from flexing while welding.

As far as carpet goes, that was from the Pro! It made sense to me. If you're going to be welding the floor pan (red hot!), I would not trust that heat to conduct into any material (carpet, wires, insulation) and risk to melt it or reach ignite threshold.

Best of luck!

 

Not sure what was meant by ramp hoists but at any rate you must do your best to put the frame in as true a position as possible. You want to use some type of stand underneath the rear through bolts of the front A arms and ensure that the pads on the tops of the stands is absolutely level with each other. A water level would work best and be dirt cheap unless you have a laser level. Rear end needs to be resting on the body mount side of the lower control arms and also ensuring that those pads of the stands are level. If you drive your car to an exhaust shop with a drive up ramp you will have a 99% chance the frame will be welded together crooked.

If you aren't planning on spot welding the sides of the long arms to the floor pan than you probably are fine leaving the carpet in. If you are spot welding the side than I think there's is too great a risk for blow through catching something on fire. Most of the tubes companies use are 1/8-3/16" thick and the floor pan is fairly thin comparatively so it would be easy to blow through.

 

Anyone find bolt-ons that actually bolt on w/o modifications? (I'm inclined to bolt on to preserve originality, and with limited driving and zero racing it would suffice) I saw a bad review of a bolt on over at Summit, guy said it wouldn't work.

 

Before I installed mine, I had the car put on a frame rack and had measurements taken to insure the car was straight.

Could you imagine putting them on a twisted body?? permanent 3 wheel motion.

Would defiantly alter how the car handles.

 

If you hardly drive the car, and want to keep it original, I wouldn't even put them on. waste of money imo

 

I followed the instructions with my BMR connectors. I made 4 of the same wheel stands, I propped the car up on them so it was level and under it's own weight and welded them in. No need to move the carpet, the part being welded to is the subframe, not the floor... If you have that much heat transfer, you're doing something wrong.

There was a huge difference in the car, even backing out the nearly flat driveway it was obvious. Now for a jacking point I just place the jack under where the front plate of the connector is, car doesn't shift at all.

 

On the other hand, if you also stitch weld the SFC to the rocker rail, you will make the car even stiffer, and possibly set the carpet on fire while doing so. Hence, the general instruction to pull back the carpet.

 

Need to rebuild part of a rocker, so didn't do that... But it will happen once I dig in that deep (and carpet will be out)

 

I have a 1991 Convertible, and I have had the car completely disassembled. Engine, transmission and rear axle out of the car. Looking at the riveted frame rails that were installed, it needed some help. One way you can really see why you need SFC's is have your car on jack stands and place a jack in the middle of the car and raise it up a bit and watch the door gap next to the door jamb open up. This is why on T-top and Convertibles there are door jamb wedges to keep the door from contacting the door jamb. These cars flex more than any car I have ever seen.