mechanic1992

So im building a custom box for my 87 IROC and i stopped by a local audio store and looked at the P1 Rockford Fosgates, those were about $99 each, and i was wondering if anyone had any imput on those or had any better low frequency bass sounding subs for about the same price, and whether or not i should buy two amps for both 12s ill be putting in or would 1 amp be sufficient?

mtwlkn122

Alright man well no sub is really perfect for any one person cause everyone has different tastes. I personally have 2 crossfire 12in DB3's and two amps(one to each sub)...my system is perfect for me but I am in the process of upgrading to the P3's...The system i have now is very loud when it needs to be but also is very clear and punchy which i like. Ive had WAY too many compliments, including at a grad party cause it was the sound system for the bon fire for 3 hrs straight and didnt kill my battery thanx to the power cell. Either way we were playing Def Leppard Top Hits CD and everyone said it was so loud(bass and vocals) that it sounded just like a concert. The bass was very punchy and you could feel it in the ground and the vocals seemed like you were right infront of a live concert. It really does sound good. I just want better so im upgrading to all RF all around...hence my new sig lol.

Onto the P1's....ehh there good for the money but if your serious about bass id go with the P3's. The P3's will take 500rms easy...id give them 700 as i like to give them a lil more then they call for, obviously with the right tuning of gain, subsonic and so on from your amp and you will be fine. Either way they are very versatile and can sound great sealed(like my box) or ported. They also sound very clear and good but also can get very loud. Its one of those subs that is very borderline pushing the limits of clarity for the sake of loudness. I know im raving on and on but i just happen to be an audiofile.

As for the amps. I would run a punch series 1000d amp. It will give you 1000watts rms to power both the subs. Its also 1ohm stable so your all set for wiring options. This is if you do the P3's. Dont give 1000watts to P1's, that would be ummmm well fun to watch but thats about it lol.

Hope that helps

mechanic1992

haha no no, rave on, i do mechanic work and im trying to broaden my knowledge anyway so anything helps. and thanks, I was looking at the P1s only for their price really, Ive seen the P3s in action but they are like $250 a piece( at the audio store) so i mean if you know any place that sells them cheaper that would be much appreciated, and so either a sealed or ported box would be ok? cause i made mine ported. and another question, i put the front of the box on hinges so i could easily access the connections and so i could access the amp( gonna put it on inside so its not visible so no one tries a five finger discount) and i was wondering if that is necasarrily a good idea, cause the box wouldnt be sealed as well and i thought i heard that you need to put your amp away from your subs and idk what the reason for that is.

mechanic1992

also, is it better to go dual 2 ohm voice coils or dual 4 ohm voice coils? also im curious what a capaciter does? and would it be better to just buy two 500W amps instead of the more expensive 1000W RF one?

mtwlkn122

Ok alot to answer here so im sry if i forget something...



first my local shop that i hang out there about twice a week sells the P3's for 200 a piece. They had a deal awhile back to clear out old inventory for 345 for a pair but thats over now lol.

Second i would recomend spending the extra and get the P3's...its sad to say but car audio is one of those fields that you get what you pay for. Obviously there are name brands that you pay for but they also come with their advantages that most overlook(warranties, product no questions asked replacement, customer service, etc) Either way its really up to how much thump you want. The P1's are nice but the P3's are just amazing for the price.

You said you made your ported? I hope you made it big enough. Take measurements and find out the cubic foot of the box. Then go on RF's site and find out the subs dimenions, then subtract what the sub will take up in that box and that will give you the size of the box. On the site it will also tell you the specs on the smallest and largest ported and sealed enclosers you can run with each sub. Another thing to remeber is what kind of music you listen to. A sealed box will sound cleaner, be more punchy, and will handle more power safetly. A ported box will be louder, deeper, but very sloppy and not sound accurate. I have a huge sealed box(check the link in my sig of my album...i have a few pics of my system some where in there). Another thing to check out is what size port you should build and also where to place the port to get the best sound and also at what frequency you want it to tuned for.

Next...um hinges?....explain this better. I hope you didnt mean you have the top piece on hinges cause it will never seal perfectly. I know you have a ported box but you still want the box to be air tight minus the port. The port is to control air flow out of the box in a controled manner. A non sealed box will ruin the subs really fast. Espically P3's, it says right on the sight not to do free air set ups, which i what you will be close to running if the box is not sealed perfectly(again minus the port).

The reason you want the amps away from the subs is cause of the rattles/movement. Like never attach them to the actual sub box. It will shake the amps alot and cause them to fail faster due to loose connections and so on. Another thing to think of when placing the amps is first how will it look, will it be in direct sunlight(if it is will you use dark tint to keep the heat away from them), air flow, and also being able to tune them easily. Example if you mount them under the seats it will be hidden, have air flow, but it will be a PITA to tune them when there already installed. I personally dont like under the seat installs, but i have done a few in suvs and trucks that came out great and were perfect in the appication used. Just not my thing.

Next about ohms. Well it depends on the amp you want to get and the watts at which ohm they are rated. Also vice versa on the subs. It gets confusing and is hard to explain. Rule of thumb is to run the subs and amps at the loset ohm you can while still be in the rating field that is stable. For example in my car now i have two profile 1000 watt amps. They are rated at 500watts rms at 2ohm(this is the number to focus on not max watts). I have two Db3 12 in dual 4 subs. I have each sub wired down to a 2ohm load so it gets the 2ohm load of 500 watts from the amp. Each one of my subs has its own amp. I did this cause i already had one of these amps on an old system so i just bought another one instead of buying a 1000d amp. Just worked out for me well. If you dont have anything right now you have alot of options lol. Either way my subs are only rated at 250watts at 2ohm a piece and i give them 500watts. They love the extra power and im also the loudest person with two db3's in my class. Even the audio shop says they cant believe that its as loud as it is. This is due to the tuning i have done tho. I dont turn my gains up like all these lil punks do cause they think its a volume ****. The gains are to set your amps to pick up the right about of signal from the radio at a given time. This is another thing i will help you with when you end up getting everything.


Now onto the amps....well its up to you. If i were you i would buy the 1000RF and two 12in P3's...I will be doing this pretty soon.

Last thing about the capacitor deal. Personally capacitors to me are like a bandaid to a problem. With two P3's and a 1000d amp you will be putting alot of stress on your electrical charging system. What a capacitor does is charge up with energy and then release it when there are significant loads of power put on the electrical system(like a deep loud hit of bass). I personally went with a Kentik power cell...type kentik car audio into google and check out there site. Pretty much the power cell is like the car audio's world of a deep cycle battery. It will help your system so much its not even funny. They do cost a lil money up front but are a great envestment. If you do buy one i would say bumb your system without it for one day with the car off, on, driveing and all that to get a feel for it, the system will prolly dim your headlights while driving and also dim your interior lights. This is not "cool" its actually very bad. Then hook up the power cell and enjoy the clean power your amps will be getting. It will also make the system louder because it is getting the extra clean power it needs.


Overall i hope i didnt miss anything...the best advice i have for your is to read through the RF site. They have great tourtials on how to wire your subs and amps. Its a very great interative site!

Schwinny

Memphis.


Thats the only thing i need to say.

mtwlkn122

Memphis does make amazing audio equipment and has a good rep to back it up...As ive stated i have memphis speakers all around. Id like to say a friend of mine is running one memphis 12in MOJO,2000d, 2400HD(?) Kentik power cell, line driver, stinger wires everywhere, 24bit sound processor and so on. That thing is nuts. The quarter panels NO LIE move more then an 1in. Mind you this is a 2004 Chevy impala with 60,000 miles also! The front window moves about 3/8in or so and the rear mirror is well always hanging from the power cord. The dash moves at least 5/8in or so and every other panel moves like crazy. Mind you his system in all was ALOT OF MONEY but it is a sick *** system. To me its just so freakin loud its not even fun to be in. Its cool to show off but its so loud you cant function. The mojo alone was like $500 or something like that. Memphis does make some sick stuff espcially when you get into the mojo and m-class amps and so on. The m-class componets are just so amazing. I used to be a huge memphis fan and still am. Recently ive moved on to RF to give them a try at my preference and I have been impressed. If it was a throw down between the t-series subs of RF and the Mojo of memphis id have to say hands down memphis all the way. The mojo is just a massive powerhouse of craziness...thats all i have to say!

mechanic1992

That pretty much answers all my questions for now. thanks a lot, i appreciate it, and i know ill have more later haha. all i need to do now is just buy the subs, amp, and head unit. thanks again

PURPLEFORMULA

iTrader: (1)

Focal, if you have the money.

Eric

87caprice

TREO

ENUFF SAID

Been there, had almost everything competition sub there is, co-owned a Audio Shop for 6 years and all I can say is TREO Engineering. I have two SSX15s and I just got 4 of there SSX1500.1 class d amps and when I tell you retarded. Two amps for each sub, btw. I dont know how much money you have but if it was me I would save up $2300 and buy 2 SSX12s from TREO. The SSX line comes from the factory with a 3 yr warranty on damn near any defect. As far as the your amp I would get a class d 1 ohm stable amplifier for any thing dealing with bass. Don't even waste your time buyin other kinds when dealing with bass. Just a waste of money to me.

Guy up there with the Impala thats moving the QP 1" off, thats nothing in that kind of car. Try doing that in a all steel 1987 caprice then brag. New cars suck at flexing when you put big subs in them. So I would expect that with a couple of Sony subs.

OP, if you are on a budget, have you thought about Kicker Solobarics. They pretty loud and dont need that much power to be loud. When I owned my shop before we sold it, we used to sell 12" solobaric w/warranty for 200 each. Thats a budget GOOD sub in my opinion. This what you do, get you 2 solos 12" and a old school memphis 1000d and you will be freaking loud. I wish I could sell you something but we sold that business for a nice chunk of change.

GOOD LUCK on your DECISION. Still consider TREO. I love mine and I have or tested them all.

mtwlkn122

Haha thats the first time ive actually heard of someone who knows what Treo is. Some know of FI just because of Steve Meade but noone ive ever met knows of Treo. The SSX15s is a NASTY sub for all day bumping. 2000 watts rms of ground pounding head splitting craziness! I heard one system with w SSX15's in a 02 tahoe and GOD DAMN that was nuts! Either way they cost ALOT of money and the guy who is buying this stuff would prolly not want that. He was hoping to stay around 99 a sub which we know in the SPL or even top notch daily driver.

Hey mechanic1992 check this out...these are FI subs...Treo's are arguably louder then FI depending on how you have them set up(boxes, watts, and so on)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cedfX...eature=channel

^^that is just a taste of how crazy you can get with systems!

87caprice

Oh yes I know what TREO is. I love mine to death. When I had my sound shop I meet with the owner of TREO and at the time we were the only shop in Louisiana that sold TREO. When the owner came to the shop he came in that big A$$ 18 wheeler looking truck made by either Ford or Chevrolet with 8 CXT 18"s and YOU couldn't stand 15ft close to that thing without something over your ears. That was the most insane vehicle I've ever heard. It was hitting like 178+ dbs at that time. RETARDED. All plexiglass windows. But there is no way that I'm going to get rid of these TREOs, I was offered $1500 just for the 2 subs last weekend at the BOXES and BUBBLES car show. No Way. The cost of those subs now are $1200 each.

Yes I understand this kid is on a budget, thats why I suggested the Solos. I think if I read right that he was thinking about spending like 175-200 for the P3s and I just figured why not the Solos with the old school memphis 1000. That's one good sounding setup there. I installed alot of those setups in different vehicles. I still wish I could help him out, I probably would have sold him something close to what I was getting the stuff for. I still have great communications with some of the distributers so I would see if they can hook him up with something.

MaDeNMiAMi305

i dont dig rf personally. i have two 15" re audio subs in my tahoe and i swear by them. i have some friends that own a audio shop locally and just about everyone there has them in thier car. 3 out of 4 have a spl record - all with re subs. these may or may not be in your budget but id take a look at em. 1 10" powered right will put all other sh*t in the dirt. keep in mind enclosure is everything and with a camaro you dont have much space but id take a re over just about anything. dont expect to hear the name much because they dont have a big name on the street but the pros know. if the shop you go to says they dont know about that company id leave. youtube it. good louck.

mtwlkn122

87 caprice that is pretty cool. Im an audiophile on a budget if you know what i mean, lol. I used to have a really loud system but now im going backwards and going for clarity instead of SPL. Im looking at gettin a sport-u in the future to do a full SPL set up. Either way, I hang out at my local car audio shop just about 3 times a week if not more. They dont sell kicker there and im not really familiar with it so i dont recomend it just for that reason. I will only recomend what I know first hand is good stuff. I had a friend with two 15 kickers with an old school memphis 1000 in his car. Im not sure which series the subs were but it was pretty loud(cracked the back window). As for TREO i would LOVE to own some of there stuff but in the firebird its just not worth the money and time. If I ever buy a sport-u then yes I will look into it.


madenmiami305, no doubt man RE makes some good stuff. My local shop is pushing RE pretty hard now. They just installed a RE XXX 18 in a 9 cubic foot ported box in there show car and let me tell you what. That thing slams. See my problem is Ive heard so many stupid loud SPL systems that idk what loud is anymore. The loudest ive ever heard(standing next to couldnt sit inside, via owners instructions) was 170db at a SPL sound off. He had like 1/2 plexi glass windows all around and all that. I mean you couldnt play regular music out of it or bump it everyday but it was very very very loud. I mean my system is loud according to alot of people, and it shuts up all the lil punk kids with the walmart subs and amps with gains all the way up trying to be loud. My system does sound great and also has enough punch to tickle your nose, hear me from around the block, **** of people, move your hair on your head a lil, and shake pictures on walls BUT its still nice sounding and accurate. For me that was my goal. Ive had a SPL system before and man that was just stupid loud. Now i like quality.


OK ill shut up people. I just love to talk about systems...i practicly work at a car audio shop part time lol so its part of the job.

MaDeNMiAMi305

they do put out some monster bass... which i like. my mids and highs are killer. i just turn the gain down. i like having it on tap for the haters though. i live in south miami and it seems like people want to show you how much louder there system is compared to yours. im all about quality but it really comes down to if you want to have a crisp kick or quad. these speakers quad. im thinking about throwing a 10 or maybe 2 in my 92. "MTW" - what speakers did you hear that hit 170db?

mtwlkn122

We werent aloud to look in the van really...they had a rope around it so you couldnt get too close. I could barely see through the drivers window where i stood and i swear the subs(obviously a wall set up) said DD on them. Now i could be wrong but it is possible. DD does make some sick subs; with the right amount of power, box, and port, and tuning i dont doubt the 170.xx db. I have no clue what hz they had it tuned at tho. It was most likely a higher hertz just so they could hit the 170 mark. 170db at low hz is VERY hard to hit. I also have no clue how much he had into the power side of the van, im sure it was crazy. I just saw what looked like DD subs. Mind you this was a blirp SPL van only. There was no young jezzy playing or anything lol. Just straight up loud *** blirp's. He cracked the crap out of front window on the third run which was the 170.xxdb. So he didnt do another. Obviously this is because of the reduction in pressure.

87caprice

Yes I've had the RE XXX too, I was testing those before I got the TREO SSX 15s. I have had or played with damn near every competition sub that has been out and sold almost everything from pyle-TREO. Dont get me wrong the RE XXX subs are kick *** but as far as the TREO ssx are concerned I think the TREOs has a little more SPL than the RE XXX have. One of my best buds has the RE XXX subs in his 99 tahoe and its freaking loud. So one day we tried my setup in his truck to see what it would sound like in a SUV and say byebye to his right back window. He had the 15 RE XXX and I had the TREO SSX 15. We both had 2. But mine are holding about 2800-3000 watts each and his is holding right at 2400 watts each. I'm not saying that this is their RMS I'm saying this is the amount of watts we have running in them. BTW, he bought the RE XXX from my shop. And my car is all quality, I can get loud if I want and can be extra quality if I want. Or I can be quality and loud at the same time. But man I hope you choose the right subs because if you by something that is ok, in the NEAR future you are gonna want something better. I would just save and get the best thing you can afford instead of just buying something to just throw in there. I would still recommend for your budget to get the Solos. Good subs and dont need that many watts to be really loud. You might would only need 1 in your camaro since it is such a small car. JMHO

ellocojorge

iTrader: (1)

ur probably right about them being DD, the loudest car right now was using a single DD 18. and did 180db i think

mechanic1992

What about Hertz or Orion? i talked to a guy at my local audio shop for like an hour about em and he says that they r better than RF and they are worth the money( Hertz especially) anyone have or know anyone that has any Hertz subs? how do they perform? well?

mtwlkn122

Never herd much talk about hertz or orion. Id go with the solos that 87caprice recommended. I did a lil research on them just because im an audiophile like that and wanted to know lol. The solos seem like a great all around sub and can put out some decent sound quality and hit pretty hard while still being effiecent with lower amounts of power.

Either way 87caprice i havent herd the treo and RE's back to back but my research shows the treos are louder(which you confirmed). I would love to run one 12in XXX RE sub in my firebird but that would be just stupid just due to the size of the box and the size of the car. Id need a sport-u to get any good numbers. For now my system is good sounding for the money I have into it. Id have to agree to not just buy what you want and save for what you really should get. I went cheap cause well i got an amazing deal on it and i didnt already have any system at all in my car so i went ahead and did it. It turned out pretty damn good for what it is. Id really like to go with all new componet m-class speakers or maybe even focal(im starting to consider that after some research) and then some more effiecent good sounding loud subs. Idk yet what tho. Either way id like to do a full clarity system but also push it as loud as I can before the clarity goes away. We will see how it comes out. Im open to any suggestions, esspically from you as youve been in this longer then i have.

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Hertz are VERY nice....Orion is bringing back the old HCCA line to the original specs (like Soundstream did with the relaunch of the Reference line).

My system will feature Focal Polyglass 3 way (6.5", 4" and tweeter) front end (no rear fill), Alpine PDX amps (150.4 and 500.1) and a single Image Dynamics Q12 (DVC sealed). All with 0 ga (main) and 4 ga (power) wiring (AND the BIG 3). Should be good enough for a SQ crusie around car.

mechanic1992

haha can you define VERY nice for me project? are they a hell of a lot better than RF and worth their money? cause the guy sells the 12s for $250 or $280 a piece, i dont remember exactly. But are they well worth their price?

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Hertz....balanced and neutral sounding. Crisp mids and a detailed tweeter without being harsh. Kind of speaker you can crank and still play clean. As for the subs punchy and clean with a LOT of bass if required.

IMO they are worth the money and definitely a step (or two) above RF. However, Hertz are not cheap.

If you want to get LOUD and low then the SI or ICON subs are very popular on the car audio forums.

mechanic1992

So what would you guys recommend for a low frequency sub? cause i listen to a majority of Hip hop/ rap in my car as well as some rock, what would be the best for low frequency? Hertz?

The Project

iTrader: (6)

The list is endless...depends on budget and taste.

Some popular subs are SI (Stereo Integrity), ICON (Sound Solutions Audio), JL 12W6, Image Dynamics IDMAX, Hertz.......you get the idea.

http://www.stereointegrity.com/
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/
http://www.woofersetc.com/p2065/12W6...-Subwoofer.htm
http://www.woofersetc.com/p2900/IDMA...-Subwoofer.htm

87caprice

Personally I dont to much think a sub is all that low frequency like one would think. It has a lot more to do with the tune of the enclosure. JMO My TREOs, I can get them to play extremely low frequencies and so on. But that came mostly from a week of building and testing enclosures and also tuning my system. I can make my 15s play freaking low enough to just make you gag in the car and then turn right around and make those suckers beat like a *****. But that has a lot to do with the tuning and what all you are using. When I was in my shop, my friend that has the RE XXX 15s and I stayed at my shop until almost 10-11 every night for about a week trying to get my boxes built perfectly for an all around sound. Mind you I did say boxes. I prefer each sub to have its own enclosure. But thats just me and I've never had one customer complaint about it. But that was only for custom builds though.

Anyways, kid this is wat you do. Stop worrying about all these other subs and all the other crap and get you a set of 12" solos L7, put them in box built to their specs, get you a memphis 1000d (mini amp) and play the hell out of it. YOU will NOT be disappointed. I dont recommend em but you can get you a power acoustik class d amp if you can't find a memphis. Since this is a budget setup, thats why I recommend this setup and it will sound almost like a 2k setup. TRUST ME. There is you a killer setup for only $700. Those subs hold 750 rms each (give or take) and the amp puts out 1400 rms at 1 ohm (give or take) But whatever, in you car you will probably be the loudest in your town. With that amp, make sure you have a beefy alt cuz those know they like pulling juice. Then you can always find someone around town that would probably offer you 1k for it. My other good buddy has a 89 box chevy with that same setup and he was freaking LOUD. I just dont want you to spend your money on something now and in a month or 2 you're gonna want something better. Just get that setup there and shut em down.

Two 12" L7 Solos: 209.95 each 1 yr warranty
http://cgi.ebay.com/KICKER-08-S12L7-...d=p3286.c0.m14

Power acoustik class d amp 2400max (BS) but RMS is 1400 1yr warranty

http://cgi.ebay.com/POWER-ACOUSTIK-A...d=p3286.c0.m14

slow305rs

iTrader: (1)

Ported Box Volume 1.75 - 3.25 cubic feet

If you go ported...say goodbye to your back seats.

87caprice

Yep your so right, say goodbye to you backseat in camaro. You probably dont use it anyways so what the hell. I have a 4 door caprce and I dont even use my backseat useless my son or my ps3 is sitting back there with me traveling. I have a 4 door coupe and my backseat is fully accessible. I dont have a trunk though. 4 batteries, 5 amps, and 2 subs. Forget that trunk, I knew what I was getting myself into when I chose the subs. So to you, forget that back seat. LIVE LOUD and FAST.

mechanic1992

Alright, cool, thanks. so im new to car audio really, if you didnt know or if you didnt read the origionaly post, but i havent bought the subs yet and i wanna get my box done, is there anyway i can get the cutout for the sub online or something? like take a protractor and cut out a 12" hole? cause i know different subs have different mounting dimensions but im just curious.

19Chevrolet84

its not actually a 12 inch hole... i was looking a RF P2 Punch Subs and the cut out diameter was 11.25... So make sure you buy your subs and know your specs before making/buying a box!

mechanic1992

I really appreciate all the posts guys, and only cause of my budget did i go with the P1s, i know ill def grow out of them and ill reread all these posts and def do things right, cause ill learn from all this. Thanks guys. If ur ever in oregon haha look me up.

19Chevrolet84

did you already buy them? P2's are just a couple bucks more...

mechanic1992

yeah, i already bought the P1s. they were selling those for $99 a piece, the P2s for $175 a piece and the P3s for $230 a piece. Its our only audio store so they kinda rack up their prices a bit. But Im sure ill like the P1s for now and if i want to upgrade and i have the money then ill look at this thread again and make a better decision