incredible
you can sing that tune for the new kids on the block!!!!
look up any forum http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/q-je...ley-23449.html
here is one sample.....
I have scene may cars ford, chevy, plymouth, you can always tell it has a Holley....
from 20 years ago till current same ole same ole!!!!
take the Holley vs Q jet challenge try them both and see for yourself

 

88gta3508,I'm not trying to argue against the fact that q-jets are good carbs. They are a very quality design.

I'm saying that not nearly as many people "HATE there holley's" as you think, that statement is just plain ignorant. From the link YOU provided

Original poster said the .


First reply from the site moderator

Another replySame postYet another post from the same linkI don't know, sounds like a lot of happy holley fans out there. So whatcha got.

 

Haven't really narrowed down anything yet. Set up your distributor curve, and then start tuning the carb. The process in the Edelbrock manual is about as clear as it gets on how to tune one of those carbs empirically.

 

HMMMMMMMMMMM a lil editing !!!! you forgot the part where the guy finally went back to the Q jet
and has the same results with a non modified Q Jet with much better mileage to boot

OK you like your HOLLEY..
WATCH YOU GOT

 

If you don't know where your timing is set, you have no business blaming your carb for the way your car runs.

One of the more common themes here (even more common than, "I hate my q-jet", or "I hate my Holley", or "I hate my Edelbrock", all of which are very common) is, "I found my carb problem - it was the ignition."

 

Zero editing, those are direct quotes.

And it's very well that he decided to keep the q-jet, they are great carbs, and if I ever had an engine that came factory with one you'd better believe I would keep it over switching to anything else, holley included.

I just don't like it when people bash a certain brand of carburetor, if set up PROPERLY any carburetor will run very well.

 

I love holleys. Mostly because they are so simple and easy to tune.

 

As a matter of fact my 1978 monte carlo's lg3(140hp/5.0l)had a q-jet and once it was set up right it ran great!

 

I believe the same may be said for any carburetor once you learn how they function.

 

Yup, some have adjustments that others don't, but they all work about the same. It seems like most people either aren't willing to learn how they work, or aren't willing to do the work to dial it in.

 

I don't hate Holley.. it's just to many people purchase sticker queen parts most a waste of time and money.. just boost there sales..or people or sales misguided /purchasing inappropriate parts!! the other half have no clue what there doing ...But i guess we all need to start & learn somewhere..on to the next!! no need to have a family feud >>>survey say's
Gentleman start your engines. darn your carb is flooded again !!LOL just kidding

 

UPDATES.

returned all Metering rods to stock and checked my timing. The car seems to run a little better on the top end with the stock metering rods but picked up a flat spot on the low end.

I also adjusted the floats. They were way off however, it didn't make a noticeable difference.

The car is basically running like it was when i first got it on the road.

I think i'm gonna try and get a hold of an AEM EUGO wideband setup to tune it...

is it possible for a stock HEI distributor to advance 34 degrees? not advance TO 32... but for ex: advance from 12 deg. to 46 deg?


I think i was reading the timing light wrong.... but who knows.

 

It's possible. Start here for setting up your distributor https://www.thirdgen.org/hei

 

hah. never mind, I just added up the numbers wrong. I'm running 12 degrees adv at idle and 36 degrees total timing.

 

When does it reach 36 degrees? And that's with the vacuum advance disconnected, right?

 

no that was with it connected... maybe it WAS reading 46 degrees advance!?!? I was told you're suppoed to leave it hooked up when checking total timing. it seemed to be fully "advanced" between 3000-3500rpms

 

Disconnect the vacuum and try again. Like the article says, you want to set up the centrifugal curve first, and then set up the vacuum curve. Forget about "total timing" for now, it's meaningless.

 

all of the Carb and Centrifugal fans out there should have known and told you 3000-3500 is to high...^ you should have your total timing complete before 3000
your Static should be 12-13* your advance should be 24-26* a total between 38-42*

 

Based on a similar 350 vortec motor/ third gen car you should expect close to 81 MPH in the 1/8th mile. Timing. 34-36deg at max mechanical advance. 14-18 base initial at idle.-- max advance should occur at around 2800-3200 rpm and not exceed 36deg. Vacuum advance is a separate thing and has nothing to do with acceleration.
get a balancer timing tape so you can see max advance.

10 to 15deg of additional vacuum advance at high manidfold vacuum high cruise ( hiway) is about right.

I find the 600 edelbrocks more of a challenge to tune and dial in than the 750's. A Afr gauge is a big help.

Edelbrocks typically suffer from heat soak/carb fuel peculation/boiling vapour lock issues from idleing. wood carb spacer helps.
Electric pusher fuel pump helps. Relocation of fuel lines helps.
Watch for rubber fuel hoses/heat kink on the suction side of the fuel pump. heat collapse.
As stated consistent fuel pressure is imperative. 5.5-6psi steady at all rpms.
All carbs are impossible to tune correctly if the fuel pressure/delivery is not consistant.
and loads.

The stock GM torque converter for the th700r4 is very tight. A 3000-3200 stall converter (w/lock up) will make a huge difference.
www.converter.com
www.converter.cc
Get some 3.73's
80mph hiway cruise speeds: Slow down to 60-70mph. The life you save may be your own.
Leave the house 5 minutes earlier. Do your racing at the track, not on public roads. (street/hiway) Driving is a shared experience. Slow down and share the road.

 

alright, I'll get at it again this weekend and map out of timing curve from idle to max (w/ vac unplugged) advance and get back with you guys.

I've been looking around for a cheap, used wide-band 02 sensor for tuning but, no luck yet

I just shelled out big bucks for a new 2400 stall converter not to long ago and don't have money to throw at a new one.

The car currently runs just over 1600 rpm's at 60 and I LOVE the gas milage.

I've been looking for a super thin carb spacer I can slide under the carb to help the heat problem but, I have hood clearance problems as it is (even with the hood raised) and that's with a drop-down base & 2" filter. Someone told me there used to be a really thin aluminum spacer for holley carbs. does anyone know of something like this that would work for my edlbrock? If i were to make my own (i'm pretty handy with woodwork) what type of would should I use? oak? hickory?


Thanks for all the help guys,

Cody

 

Look for a gasket about 1/4" thick.

 

Honestly I see alot of people run elderbrock carbs and Ive had 3 myself they were all JUNK! To me they really hurt the full potential of your motor. Mine bogged, burped,and leaked new and used. I now only use elderbrock intakes with holley carbs dramatic improvement!

 

Well. a bit of a mini-update.

I still haven't had the chance to check my timing. These past few weeks have been crazy and the performance aspect things have been put to the bottom of the list.

This past weekend I finally pieced together a pcv system that runs into my vac line. with all the new splices and t fittings, a few vac leaks popped up. on the way home I noticed that the car had a little bit more "oomph" to it.

So, for poops and giggles i pulled of my main vac line, which created a MASSIVE vacuum leak. The car's idle was a rough and a little bit lower however... above idle... The car was a complete BEAST. it had never run that great. it pulled through first and second gear like they were nothing. I had trouble seeing where I was going down the road at one point because, my headlights were pointing up at the trees!

so...

a.) I just was'nt getting enought air through my (possibly) restrictive lo-rise intake
or
b.) The stock metering setup is too rich and the extra bit of un-metered air is balancing out a rich AFR ratio.
what do you guys think?


it doesn't fix anything but, it's nice to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

I'll bet your carb's CFM is to Small
you should jump up to a 750 - 780 CFM
your motor should have stalled.. when you created the main Vac leak!!
beg or borrow a bigger Carb !!!!

 

Toss it for a Holley or BG or Demon.

 

Is it me or does it seem weird that the car ran better with a vacuum leak?

 

Exactly!! I've never heard of a car running better with the vac wide open.

 

bump for update?

my 350HO trapped 101mph in the quarter. some time later i realized i wasn't getting proper WOT with my holley 4777. more like 90% throttle. i would like to see it trap a little faster myself.

 

Thanks for the bump!

I had to replace my throttle cable about a week ago and I made sure it's putting the carb lever all the way back. I stopped by the local car guru yesterday and he was stumped. He said the car's idle rpm's should be through the roof when I open up the PCV vacuum line. He Thinks it's something wrong with the carb so, tomorrow i'm going to call edelbrock and see what they have to say about it. Checked my plugs today. ran the car through the gears at WOT then threw it in neutral and shut it down. Here's what I got...

crappy pics, I know but, I only had my cell phone on me.
hard to tell in the pics but, the ground strap is definitely more light brown than white. It definitely seems to be running rich at idle tho.

I'm no plug pro though, what do you guys think?

 

what plugs are you running?

I don't know about you, but it looking at your picture you have plain jane plugs, not the extended shank version you need for vortecs. notice all the extra threads on mine.

I just pulled one of my plugs for reference.

AC Delco R44LTS

 

Yeah, right now i'm just running accell 576s's http://www.jegs.com/i/Accel+Spark+Pl.../576S/10002/-1
definitely not as much thread as your plugs.
A while back i was told that I had to get shorter plug to fit my headers. Will those AC delco plugs fit??

Thanks, Cody

 

those plugs are shorter on the wrong side. my plugs aren't any longer on the outboard side than yours. dump those things and pick up the AC Delcos and report back.

...and burn down whoever's house that gave you that bad tip.

 

alright I'll have to check them out this week. Are you Sure that's the name of the plug?

http://store.atechmotorsports.com/pa...S&view=1&N=710+

it looks like another short one... But then again, that's just a picture. Can't seem to find the reach, thread length, etc.



Also I have a somewhat HUGE update... It turns out I dont have the 1406 carb... I have the 1400 emissions carb. I Don't know how ive gone this long thinking it was a different carb. maybe i should burn my own house down.


I talked to the guy on the phone @ eldbrock. He said it was an "economy calibrated" carb. I suggested changing out metering rods, jets, springs, etc. but, he said that the carb has smaller venturis and no amount of metering changes can fix that.

I guess i only have my own stupidity to blame for this one.

A friend of mine has a 1405 im going to try and throw on this weekend... If the 1400 is as "economy tuned" as edl says, I should be finding my 50-75 horse...

sorry guys

 

just walk into your local parts store and ask for them by name. AC Delco R44LTS. The manual says 43's, but i've never found those.

some really good info on spark plugs, gap, and timing curves...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...lug-350-a.html

 

And everyone TOLD me.... don't Blame the Carb
hate to say I told you So.....

 

well, thats half true...it is an edelbrock.

been there. got the shirt. burned it.

 

eh. not QUITE yet.

Threw on the 1406, ac delco r44lts plugs, and a carb spacer ( to keep fuel form boiling out of the bowls) and had no noticable differences at WOT.

I guess it's back to the drawing board. tomorrow i'm going to try and get a hold of a timing light to get my timing curve and check the plugs to make sure that the 1406's AFR isn't WAAAAY off.

I was told by the guy on the phone @ eldbrock to run 14-16 degrees of advance timing (@ idle) even though the spec sheet from GMPP said 10. What do you guys think? I dont want to screw something up going by what some phone tech said.


Also... is it odd to:

1. not notice any difference when changing from 0 degrees to 12 degrees (at idle)?

2. not notice any difference when changing from my hei vac hose from "timed vacuum" to "manifold vacuum" or visa versa?

I figured both of these adjustments would hake a pretty big difference but... they did'nt.

 

I run 14* initial timing. manifold vacuum. I am running a crane hei kit with MSD wires/cap/rotor/coil.

changing timing from 0 to 12* should be a drastic difference. whats your balancer and timing tab setup? you may have to verify your timing marks are accurate.

...i still feel better knowing you have the proper plugs in there now. it'll just be that much sweeter once you solve the bigger problem on hand.

 

I reread the original post. Did I read this right as a drop base air cleaner and a 2" element? That might be a real drawback to air flow into the carb? Something to consider. I still think I'd spend the money on a gear change first off. Find a V6 car in the bone yard with a 3;23 gear and swap the unit.

 

Based on the color of your plugs I'd say it's burning fine, but I'm no expert and the picture is a bit hard to look at

Your ceramic looks nice and white and I see no crud build-up

 

Sorry If you've already posted it, but have you done a compression test yet?

Thats where I would start.

 

when I first got my balancer It did'nt have any markings at all! so, I had to find tdc on Cyl 1 and mark it myself.

As far as the air filter. I Have run the car, without the filter, down the track a few times and it ran no different.



I havent done a compression test only because the car has had this problem since the first time I "got on it" after break in... which was only about 5 thousand miles ago

 

bump for update?

 

I FINALY got a hold of a timing light... but it didn't have the adjustment **** for checking higher degrees of timing... I bumped the idle timing to 16 degrees and may have noticed a small increase in performance. It's been crazy getting ready for finals so, I haven't had much time for the car. Next week is spring break and I'm getting my windshield seal replaced. They have a good timing light there. so, I should be able to check it while working on the windshield. I'll let you guys know when i find something out!

Thanks again,

Cody

 

i use a cheapo and msd timing tape, no real need to spend alot of money IMO...

good luck on finals.

 

FINALLY. update.

checked my timing curve.

the rpm numbers are not linear but i was the onyl person there, I had to use the choke-throttle-holder-thing to set the rpm's while i checked the timing

ANYWAYS. timing curve is as follows:

idle (800ish)------------14 deg.
1200--------------------- 18
1500----------------------24
2000----------------------27
2700----------------------30
2900----------------------32

it's @ 32 by 3000, and from what I understand that's dead on... darn.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/orga...best-post.html

go for 36* total timing. i know some people will say vortecs don't need it, but this chap gained over 2mph in the 1/4.

 

Did you check that with or without the vacuum advance hooked up??

 

HUGE UPDATE!!

Bumped timing to 16 deg. @ idle which came out to 38 deg. @ 3100 rpm's.


the car runs noticeably better... i used to be able to round corners @ wot w/ my p235 tires. this is no longer the case... anything over 75% throttle and it's gone.

This seems to have been the main problem. I think i can focus on fine tuning the carb now and squeeze a little more juice out of it. this has also been done on 87 oct. fuel. This week i'll get back to 93 and take it to the track to try and do some tuning.

The car was a tiny bit spunkier with my friends 1406 carb so i'm going to try and setup the car the same way as a baseline tuning setup.



and YES. that was with my vac advance unhooked and plugged.


(not sure if i mentioned this but,) i also built a homemade carb spacer out of 3/8" plywood. soaked it in oil overnight to slow fuel absorption. This helped my lean bog problem even MORE. the carb now keeps relatively cool. hot starts are no longer a problem and my previous vapor-lock problem is nowhere in sight (even on these warm(ish) florida days we've been having)


Just want to give a big thanks to everyone. By the "seat of the pants" gauge, the problem is mostly fixed. That dreaded 700r4 2nd gear isn't such a bear either.

ran neck and neck with an 05 bmw M3 last night (from a dig to the speed limit. On a dark and desolate country road, of course, )

Now for the fine carb tuning and a 50 wet shot of nos!


Thanks again! I owe all of you guys big time! Let me know if you have any more suggestions. Hopefully this will help someone else out that didn't set up their motor right in the first place.

 

glad to hear its running better.

i would look into this edelbrock wooden spacer for long-term.


...a custom spec'd 9 inch 3200 stall torque converter made a HUGE seat-o-pants difference in my car.