3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

I need help. The carb on my s10 (yes its an s10 but this situation could be on a thirdgen) has never been 100%. It has always run good while driving and WOT, but idle has never been good. It is a 4150 holley 650 dp.

Engine specs are 350/350 combo, Dart 200P Pro1s, 10.5:1, Lunati solid flat tappet 244/249 @ 50 .565/.543, Air-Gap. I have an edelbrock narrow band air/fuel gauge. Reads good everywhere except at idle. Doesnt light up at all which with those means it is above 15 (if I remember correctly that is) So I know it is lean at idle. Probably one reason it warms up so quick and doesnt want to idle until fully warm.

Last year I dialed in the timing to 34 degrees and tightened it down. I figured that was a good starting spot. I drove the truck a couple of times this year and decided I'm going to get it right. First thing I done was I noticed that I had the vac advance hooked to the timed port. So I moved it to manifold like I believe it should be. The motor was already warm and it drove just fine. Started to drive it the other day and it didnt feel right. Idle was worse so I parked it. Yesterday I pulled the carb and checked the transition slot on the primary. Got them set and I opened the secondary about the same amount. Turned the idle screws to 1.5 turns on both and put it back on. Idle was way worse. Had to constantly pump the gas to get it to stay running. Messed with the timing and nothing helped. I adjusted the timing back to where it was noticeably retarded and run terrible all the way to where it was advanced so much that the starter was being bumped back on. I backed it back down just below that point. Air/fuel showed lean (don't know how much since 15 is as high as it goes). I do know that when I would pump the gas, the air/fuel would light up down around 11-12, then drop back above 15. It seems like everything is close enough that it should idle on its own at 165 degree engine temp, but it wont. I am figuring it has to be a lean condition in the carb, but I don't know how to fix that. Transition slot is right, idle screw should be close enough, and timing should be close enough. I know the motor was alittle cold when doing this, but it still should do better then whats it doing shouldnt it?

Now I do have a cheap distributor that I'm going to replace with a better unit at some point, but since I messed with the timing and it didnt make much difference I don't think that is the issue. I'm thinking about pulling my 4160 holley 600 from my camaro and putting it on to see how it does. It is pretty close on my camaro so it should atleast idle good on the truck.

Any ideas? I'm at a loss. Unless I'm looking at the air/fuel monitor wrong?

Thanks

pancherj

My first suggestion would be to completely ignore the AFR gage at idle. With a camshaft with lots of overlap, the AFR is pretty useless for idle.

Your setup is similar to the 350 in my camaro. My car does not like anything less than 50 degrees advance at idle (with vacuum advance hooked up). If I even drop back to 46 degrees, idle is noticeably worse.

Put new plugs in, start it up and try to get it to idle and then pull the plugs and check them. This should give an indication of rich or lean. It could be either. If it is real lean at idle, it might be an obstruction in the IFR or one of the IAB's.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

I was wondering that about idle and the afr, but I didnt want to disregard it and have a real lean situation.

I will get some plugs, probably could use some by now anyways. Thanks

JaBoT

pancherj hit it on the head. With bigger camshafts with lots of overlap it causes fresh air (O2) to bleed strait through to the exhaust causing the O2 sensor to falsely read lean. So an afr gauge (wide or narrow band) is basically useless at idle for big cammed cars.
As far is getting it to idle better it is probably a combination of issues starting with the timing like stated earlier. You need to limit the amount of mechanical advance to the least as possible. The easiest way is to use an msd or malory distributor.
An msd dist can go as low as 18 deg of advance so if you are at 36 total yo will be around 18 at idle depending on the springs used. A malory can go even lower, down to 10 deg of advance. Which will give you 26 deg at idle if at 36 total.
Between the added timing at idle from the mechanical advance and hooking up the vac can to a full vac port will make a big difference in the idle.
But your only half way home!
You probably are going to need to open the secondary butteryfly a little to bleed some air in (like when they drilled holes in the butterflys back in the old days). Basically u need to take the carb off, turn the idle screw till the transfer slot looks like a square (do a search and you will find how to do this) then open the secondary throttle stop to get the idle where you want it. Then do your normal a/f screw adjustments.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Thanks. I did set the transition slots yesterday and opened the secondary. I may need to open the secondary some more.

Worse case for secondary to be opened too far is that the idle is too high right? then just close it back until idle speed is good right?

JaBoT

yup and you can use the idle screw for fine adjustments, but keep in mind it will never idle good until you get the timing it needs at idle.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

New set of plugs ordered. Will see how it goes from there.

Thanks

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Put plugs in today. Now I just think the timing is out of whack. Need to get a light on it and get another marker for the harmonic balancer. I had one of those tape markers but that didnt stay on long.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

How did the Holley Tuning sticky at the top of this forum work out for you?

It's amazing how that process, followed TO THE LETTER from start to finish IN ORDER not doing anything wrong like skipping any of the steps or starting at the very end (playing with the accel pump before setting the jets and PV for example), can dial a carb in to the preferences of a particular motor.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

You cant always jump and post that sofa. Ive read that several times and if you read this thread through, you would see that I started exactly like that sticky said. However, I believe that old plugs combined with my inexperience with the A/R at idle, had me chasing my tail with the timing.

Now the timing is the issue, which must be done before going through the sticky. Transition slot is set in the primarys, but nothing else I can do right now until I get the timing right. Well, I double checked the float level and it is right on with the sticky.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Transition slots and float being set right, is a very good thing.

But those are only part of the process.

A Holley as it comes, out of the box, is set up WRONG for virtually ANY car. Holley builds em so they'll "run" no matter what; but that's no where near the same as "run right".

Their setup looks like what would be good for a 283 in a 60 Chevy with a stick shift, WAY too tall of a gear (3.08 or worse), a HUGE cam, no head work, and poor-flowing exhaust. If that's not what you've got, then most often their setup will cruise too rich, idle too rich, power mixture will be about right, and it'll have the usual HUUUUUUUGGGGGE LOOOOOONNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG flat spot coming off idle. The higher your idle vacuum, the worse the flat spot will be. That's a consequence of too much jet and too low of a power valve choice.

What did the jets and power valve end up at?

A 350 with a cam in that ballpark is going to want about 20 - 22° of "static" timing, and only about 15° of centrifugal advance; with ALOT of vac adv on top of that, probably another 15°. Very few distributors are, or easily can be, set up like that, without modification.

The comments about the O2 sensor are correct by the way. Remember, that thing is an OXYGEN sensor, not a "mixture" sensor; in order for its readings to be interpreted correctly, FULL AND COMPLETE COMBUSTION IN EVERY CYL EVERY TIME must occur. If it doesn't, such as at idle with a cam that gives lots of "lope", there will be unburned fuel and OXYGEN in the exh stream, which will make the OXYGEN sensor read "lots of oxygen", often interpreted as "lean", even though raw fuel might be dripping out the tailpipes at the same time as it's reading "lean".

JaBoT

That's pretty much on the money for what it's going to want for timing. I would be really surprised if it wound up running better with different numbers.
The only distributors that I know of that can do it without modification are a mallory which can go down to 10 deg of mechanical advance with the supplied spacers. Or a msd with the 14 or 10 deg bushings from FBO http://www.4secondsflat.com/MSD%20Di...r%20Tuning.htm

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

That is helpful, thanks. Jets are 69s in primaries. Had 67s in it before, but had the surging at cruise and I bumped up to 69 and the surge went away. Powervalve aint right right now, it is too low I know. Going to get the timing right and drive it around to see what it does. Figured I would go with 2 less then the lowest reading under light driving.

Really debating right now on buying a good Mallory or msd distributor. I built this motor back in college under a tight budget and put a cheapo in it. I might pull the trigger next week so I can get the timing just right. The one in it is a crappy ebay special and I know it could be causing some of the issues Ive been having.

Thanks for all the help. I will let you know how things progress. This weekend will be family over toys though.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Hope to get back at it next week. I did get it fired up the other day and pulled it out of the garage so I could breathe. Exhaust smells very rich. Got it warmed up to 180 and messed with the timing to where it would idle on its on. Then noticed it has a slight fuel leak from the secondaries. If it aint one thing its another.

Next step is to remark the balancer in 10 degree increments up to 50 and put timing light on it. Also going to pull the carb (holley 600 4160) from my camaro to put on it so I can figure out exactly what the timing is doing.

If it is idling at 1000 rpm out of gear, with the motor fully warmed up, and then dies in gear, what is this a symptom of?

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

pulled the carb off today and checked some stuff out on it. Putting new gaskets on tomorrow and hopefully see if I can get this thing running right.

69 primarys, 67 secondaries. 6.5 PV (for now). Air bleeds all open, everything looks good inside.

Got my balancer marked and ready, just got to find time tomorrow to put the carb back on, check the floats, and fire it up to check the timing.

JaBoT

I would start by setting the carb back to factory jetting. There is no way with that cam and heads that the secondary should be that low. Plus the secondaries should be around 8 jet sizes up from the front, I have never seen them be lower than the fronts.
Put them back to stock, set the timing to 36 total and use sofa's sticky on how to tune a holley.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

I was wondering about that. Thats half the reason I posted what I found. Factory settings from what I have found were 73s. The primaries were 67s when I got it. I started working through sofa's sticky and learned why it always had what felt like surging when I was cruising. Went to the 69s and it fixed it. Guessing it was that lean condition causing the surge.

Im getting a couple of gaskets this evening, I think I have a set of 73s somewhere that I can put in.

Forgot to mention it, but I got the transition slot set as well. It was close, but was open a bit too far.

skinny z

[quote=sofakingdom;5593801]...such as at idle with a cam that gives lots of "lope", quote]

Care to elaborate on that? "Lope" caused by overlap I assume. At what point do you think the O2 sensor is ineffective at idle? When the overlap is 55°, 60°, 65°...?
I'm curious in that I use my wide band air fuel ratio gauge (which has an O2 sensor as you know) to set my idle mixture. Whether it's accurate or not I can't say (and you've got me thinking) however there's a direct correlation between turning the mixture screws and the value indicated on the gauge. Turn them in and the value goes leaner and vice versa.

JaBoT

When a cam has a lot of overlap it bleeds fresh air into the exhaust causing a false lean reading on the O2 sensor. This is why cams made for fuel injected cars have a tight overlap otherwise the computer would be adding fuel making a crazy rich condition at idle.
As far as how many degrees i have no idea. But you can usually tell when your tuning it. The best thing to do is just set idle either by ear or with a vacuum gauge. A good rule of thumb is if the idle is saying its 14.7 and the exhaust stinks. The afr probably isn't right.

skinny z

Thanks

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Well turns out I don't have any jets bigger then 69s in my box, so Im going to grab some tomorrow. Should be able to get it back together and running tomorrow. Thanks for all the help.

JaBoT

Well technically there is also a little bit of fuel passing through to, but it's irrelevant because an O2 sensor doesn't know what fuel is. It can only read the oxygen content of the passing air.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Bad idea; that "assume" thing, that is. Break the word down into its component parts. 3 letters, one letter, two letters. Then DON'T EVER do it again.

Lope IS NOT "caused by" overlap. Overlap is the term used to describe the period of time during which the exh valve and int valve are both open. There's no way this can cause "lope". What ACTUALLY CAUSES "lope", is the int valve opening while there's still pressure in the cyl. This might be at the same time as "overlap", or it might not (if the exh valve has already closed). What happens is, that cyl lets some exh gas back into the intake manifold, which "poisons" the incoming charge to itself and possibly to other cyls as well, causing them to misfire.

Yes fresh air passing through the motor can fool the O2 sensor; but generally that's not a significant cause of the observed behavior. The misfiring pattern known as "lope" is what usually does it.

Test equipment, measurements, etc. are all well and good, and do not "lie"; however, they are HIGHLY subject to interpretation. OTOH, if the engine runs better or worse, that's NOT usually subject to misinterpretation. "If it RUNS good, it IS good". Tune for HOW THE ENGINE RUNS, not for the reading on a meter. Use the meter as a guide to help you find why the engine isn't running as well as it can; but NEVER hallucinate that you somehow know better what the meter will read when the engine runs good, than the engine will. If the meter and the engine disagree, believe the ENGINE.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Yeah I didnt do that and I made things worse. Once up to temperature the engine ran fine, didnt heat, idled ok. The lean reading made me worried I was going to mess something up. I should have asked before messing with it, but hey, learn from mistakes I guess.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Got a question regarding setting the idle speed.

I have the transition slot set right. So I know I dont need to touch it and that I should open the secondaries up and adjust them to set the idle speed.

Question is this, Wouldnt it be better to open them too much initially so that you dont have any idle concerns? You wouldnt be fighting to keep the motor running as it warms up (without setting the choke). Then I can start backing it back down if need be.

Seems the better way versus trying to slowly open it to bring the rpm up. You cant hurt anything by opening them too far right? Would just have a real high idle right?

Thoughts? Also, how do you know the proper idle rpm? Ive always just screwed with the primarys and have learned now that screws up the transition slot.

Thanks

JaBoT

yea it doesn't matter either way. You just might wind up with a really high initial idle. Or you can get one of these to make it easier.
http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/t...m-bracket.html

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

If I had seen that before hand I probably would have got one. Holley has the same thing but want $35 for them. I wasn't paying that.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

"Ideal" idle speed varies according to auto or stick, cam, driver preferences, etc. For a stock auto vehicle it might be 600 in gear but for a Sprint Cup car it might be 3600.

Best way to do it is usually to adjust the pri setting for the speed you want, then if you move it very much, re-set the sec then re-set the pri to return the slot to the right spot.

Some of us have been known to take the sec screw out and turn it upside down so it can be adjusted from above.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Okay, I think a lot of the problem is distributor.

With vac advance unhooked, truck is idling at 32 degrees. Even as low as 28 it starts to cut out and wants to die. This is all at a 1100 idle speed. Give it gas it goes to about 45 degrees.

Let back off and the motor idled at 30, then it started to act like it was going to die and the timing dropped down to around 24 and I had to blip the throttle to keep it running. Which then it jumps back to 32 and is idling fine.

Distributor is pretty tight, hard to even move by hand, so I don't think it is moving from rpm.

So if that is the case, then the mechanical advance is adding atleast 20 degrees.

Moving the timing back to the 28 mark and the motor will idle about 15 seconds and then slowly start to die, as it does this, the timing drops to around 20 and I blip the throttle, shoots to 40, settles back at 28 and repeats.

Vac advance through the timed port adds almost 30! no other adjustments and timing went to around 70!

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

See previous post. Please help. Im thinking a good distributor may cure a lot of issues.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

And on top of all that, that is with it in park. With water temp at 195, idle at 1100, put it in gear and the idle drops to 600 and it wont idle on its on!

Im assuming that the load from the transmission is causing the idle to drop, thus causing the timing to drop (since it appears there is a ton of mechanical advance that comes on too early) and thus causing it to die.

Please help.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like the timing mark is off.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

It aint off unless it is slipping bad. Verified with a piston stop in #1.

Even if it was off a little, that wouldn't explain the large change in mechanical and vacuum advances.

Im trying to use the thought process in your signature.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Using that thought process:

70° BTDC = 20° ABDC

Would the engine run if the spark occurred while the piston was all the way at the bottom of the cyl? really? Then if the engine is running, happily, it's a pretty safe bet the spark isn't occurring when the piston is way down near BDC.

Wherever the mark was when the motor was built, most likely it isn't NOW.

In any case, if the mark tells you impossibly stooopid unbelievable crap, ignore it. Set the timing to where the engine runs the best. Advance it until it pings, then retard it til it quits; won't be "right" or any such thing, but will at least give you a hint as to how accurate the mark is. And better in any case than setting it somewhere wrong just because "the mark says so".

Listen to the engine. It KNOWS where it wants the timing. It DOESN'T CARE what the "mark" says. If the engine and the mark disagree, the ENGINE is RIGHT; the mark is WRONG.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Yeah that makes sense. I guess Im getting aggrevated and aint thinking things through.

I guess I really need to get somebody to help me so I can adjust it to where it stays idling in gear and go from there. Just cant do that by myself.

But it still has me stumped with the vac advance. Disregarding the timing mark and what numbers it is on, the vac advance still appears to be adding 40 degrees. 6.75" balancer, so I multiply by pi, divide by 36 to get distance per 10 degrees. Converted that to mm so it was easier to mark. ~15mm which will get pretty dang close. So vac advance is way too much if going from 45 to 70 ish (even if 45 aint really 45).

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Well going to work on it some tomorrow. Think I will start by pulling #1 and seeing how bad the timing mark is off. Then Im going to close the secondaries some.

From there Im going to do like you said sofa and not look at the timing light, Im just going to mess with the timing until it wants to idle in gear and go from there. Not sure what else to do at this point.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Verified that the balancer has NOT slipped. TDC is correct on the balancer and timing tab.

Closed the secondaries 1/4 turn. I put the timing light in the corner and vowed not to look at it.

Started the truck up and let it warm up. Vac advance hooked to manifold vac. Idle was about 900 but would not idle in gear. Kept advancing the distributor until I could tell it started to ping and then I retarded it back. Then I set the idle screws with my vacuum gauge. Highest vac at 2 1/2 turns. (bouncing from 13-15"). Drove it and it ran okay but still wouldn't idle in gear. Finally said the heck with it and turned the primary idle screw 1/4 turn open (which I had set earlier to "square" the transition slots) and it bounced my idle up to 1100 but now when I put it in gear it kept running. Idle in gear about 700 rpm. Felt like I had a little bit of detonation so I attempted to retard the distributor, but it wouldn't go very far before it wouldn't idle in gear anymore.

So right now I have it to where with manifold vac, it just will idle in gear.

At that point I said the heck with it, Im not touching anything else. I then put the timing light on it. With vac advance hooked up, idle in park is at 48 degrees. With throttle jumps up to above 70 and doesn't seem very smooth obviously. With vac advance unhooked, in park at idle it is at 30 degrees and jumps to about 42 degrees.

Not really sure what to do now. Im thinking about just driving it with vac advance unhooked. I don't want to have that much advance and it be detonating when I don't know it over the exhaust.

I looked all over the internet and the distributor itself (7000 series procomp piece of junk) but could not figure out how to adjust either the mechanical advance or the vac advance.

What do yall think? What should I do next? Im toying with the idea of unhooking the vac advance and keeping my eye out for a good msd 8360 and see what that does. Maybe putting carb from my Camaro (holley 4160 600) on it. Im lost.

mmadden55

I'm thinking your cam is out of time, it is the only thing that makes sense.

skinny z

Do you know what the specs are on your vacuum can? A common problem I've found with running full manifold vacuum for the advance is that in park the vacuum is high enough to pull the can into advance however when the car is placed in gear, manifold vacuum drops enough to reduce the amount of advance supplied by the can. Rpm drops, vacuum drops, advance decreases and the car stalls. This why I was always reluctant to use full manifold vacuum as opposed to ported.
As an example, I have a Crane fully adjustable vacuum unit where I can adjust the onset point for the advance as well as the total available. In my case, with the vacuum advance disconnected and the engine is drive, I had about 9" of vacuum. I adjusted the vacuum unit so that all the advance available was in by 8". I used a hand held vacuum pump and wired the mechanical advance springs closed so that I could test the vacuum can and observe how much advance was available and when it came in and when it finished. Hooking up the vacuum advance after that test resulted in a higher idle speed which had to adjusted lower. I went from 14 degrees of initial timing to 36 degrees with the vacuum advance applied. Add another 18 degrees from the mechanical advance for a possible total of 54 at cruise above 3000 rpm.
I use a timing light for all of testing and settings. I listen to the engine too but I need to know the data.
Result, excellent idle in gear with vacuum now up in the 12-13" range. Drivability has improved as has engine idle cooling.

JaBoT

Now that you know that tdc is correct I want you to try something.

Square the front transfer slot.
reset a/f screws to 1.75 turns out.
Set total timing to 34 degrees with vacuum can disconnected.
connect vacuum can to full vacuum
set rear throttle stop screw so the engine will idle, but keep it as low as possible
now slowly turn in the a/f screws a little at a time going around between all four at a time. As you do this the idle show go up. Lower it back down and keep adjusting until the idle doesn't keep getting faster or it lowers the idle. You can also use a vacuum gauge in stead if rpm and ear.
Now set the idle to the rpm you want and take it for a ride and see how it feels.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Skinny, No I dont and that is one thing that is driving me crazy. I hadnt found any way to adjust the crappy thing either. I was told last night that the vac should be able to be adjusted with a small allen head. I will look more into that next time I get the chance to mess with it.

JaBoT, next time I get a chance to mess with it I will try that. Im hoping to figure out how to adjust the vac and mechanical advance.

Thanks for hanging in there and helping me out with this. Im sure I sound like an idiot, I guess Ive always just been lucky on everything else. This one has me stumped and aggrevated. My camaro has a factory HEI that Ive rebuilt, messed with weights and springs, added module, coil, and adjustable vac canister. I have it running great. This distributor is completely different.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure you have the right timing tape for your balancer?

If you turn the engine by hand, not using the damper bolt of course, to about 30° as measured by a protractor or similar method, then rotate the cam under the rotor to simulate the weights flying out, is the star wheel in the dist then at about firing?

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Not running a timing tape. With balancer at verified TDC, I made my own marks. Please check and see if you agree with my method. It may not be dead on accurate, but is within 2-4 degrees atleast Im sure.

Measured that I do have the 6.75" balancer.

6.75 x pi = 21.206
21.206 / 36 = 0.589" per 10 degrees. (hard to mark so convert to mm)
0.589" x 25.4 = 14.96 mm per 10 degrees.

My harmonic balancer is black, so using a soft measuring tape with mm markings, I made marks at 15, 30, 45, 60, and 75 mm with a silver sharpie. I then took a small square and drew a line across the balancer at these points. Then marked 10, 20, 30, 40, 50.

So it may not be dead accurate, but has to be within 2-4 degrees. Definately not out much more then that.

I will double check the distributor rotor position this evening. Thanks for hanging in there, this thing is making me look like an idiot I know.

pancherj

Are you sure the gear on the distibutor isn't shot? I always recommend to people to use the GM Performance HEI. It comes with a good mechanical curve, a decent vacuum pod and the good melonized cam gear. The module isn't the best, but I always ditch that and run through the MSD box. The last one I purchased cost like $180. It's a good deal.

Your math looks okay and should be close enough.

skinny z

My bet is that, based on the symptoms you described, (idles in park, dies in gear), that it's the specs on the vacuum can that is giving you trouble. I'm only saying this because it's PRECISELY what I've gone through in the past and the reason I didn't care for full manifold as my vacuum advance source.
Certainly you should consider the advice form JaBot and Sofa but you'll need to address the vacuum can. Follow the test that I did and you'll have all the info you need. IIRC it's a 5/64" allen key that will adjust the screw inside the vacuum pot. You'll also need a vacuum pump.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Pancherj, only thing I must do is run a small base distributor. We didnt test fit the motor enough when we installed it and you cannot install a regular sized base HEI without pulling the intake. Small base style just will clear enough. Found that out about 5 years ago when with another motor we had in it when we went to pull the distributor for a cam swap.

I will look at the vac can this evening skinny, thanks.

pancherj

The reason I was brining up the distributor and the gear is that you have a roller cam that needs a special gear (melonized gear or bronze or composite). The normal MSD distributors used to come with a junk gear (maybe they changed that now) and I bet anything from proform has a cheap steel gear. If the teeth are worn, the timing will move around.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

No the cam in this instance is a flat tappet. The distributor gear is supposed to have been compatible.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

Well I don't think there is any adjustment inside the vac can. 5/64 didn't have anything that felt like it fit, size smaller didn't either. Larger wouldn't fit inside.

Definitely no noticeable mechanical adjustment. Going to call procomp tomorrow to see if they are any help.

That's all I had time to do.

3rdgenmaro

iTrader: (9)

This is a picture I found on google that shows what it looks like under the cap.