Matthew91-Z28

I've been talking to smoothline.com about a removable hardtop for an 82-92 camaro. The replied that they just "have not had enough inquiries to justify the expense of tooling". So I asked about a group purchase today. But in advance of their reply, I'm just curious how many convertible owners would be interested in this. I suppose that it would also work for a bird. But I don't know that yet. Is all the hardware, etc the same for birds, camaros?

Here is a pic of what they designed for the C4.

Speedgraphic

The idea of having a Removable Hard top is intrigueing. I guess we would just have to see how much...

It should not be all that hard to make I guess, of course the VETTE would be easier b/c they have the latch mechanisms on both sides instead of just in the center. I would think that you would want some kind of attachment point in additon to the windhshield and decklid latches?

If you can, get them to give you a ball park est. on cost and how many units they would neet to sell to justify...

90iroc5spd

yea some sort of ballpark figure would be nice befor i would get really interested.

Ovrclck350

I'd be interested IF

-it could be mounted with the stock top folded down.....which could happen assuming it used the stock 3 hold down points (2 windshield, one middle decklid.

-the price was reasonable.




THe only thing I've ever hated about hardtops is the fact that basically you can't take em with you on a trip if you want to go with the top down, however if they used the stock mounting points, then that'd be perfect because you could still have the top hidden down where it usually goes.

Hmm....who is it that's producing the notchback's? Contact him. Basically he'd just need to make a mold of the way our regular tops are shaped, then make the contact points the same way.



This is definately an interesting idea. I give you 4 thumbs up
:hail:

91zconvt

I'd probably not be interested if it would look basically like a hardtop car when it was on...I mean, I love the lines of the vert's....

Although, no that I think about it, a hard top offeres great possibilities. Hmm...Top down in the summer, T-Tops when it's a little cooler. Best of both worlds...

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Kenny and I have discussed building one for my Vert but I lost interestd just for the fact of it has to be left at home if you desde to take it off... I dont want to be out on a asweosme day and deside I want to drop the top and cant.

Speedgraphic

Sure, That works for most of the year. But we all have weeks or even months when it is just not possible to even think of going topless. It would be kool to have the hardtop for those times.

The argument you put forth is one that all vert owners with the option have to decide. Right now we just don't have the option...

Matthew91-Z28

First, it fits on the car with the top down. Second, it doesn't just latch on at the 3 points the stock top does. It has brackets that slide into the holes where the convertible top pivots.

As far as looks go, it would still not look like any stock 3-door f-body. As you see with the C4 top, the decklid reamains as well as the same sexy shape of the top. I mean, look how sweet that c4 looks!

There are pros and cons of course, as mentioned. Me, I'd like to remove the entire convertible top (frame and all) and use the hard top for 9 out of 12 months of the year. Why? I only have the top down in Oct, and maybe April and May. Its just too damn hot in the summer or too damn cold in the winter.

And for those who complain about not being able to cruise around town topless b/c of hartop storage: I'm not sure about the rest of you, but the only time I take the top down is when I want to go out cruising from my home. These non-motor tops are a pain in the **** to keep putting down and up while running around town. I guess thats just not an issue for me.

The only downside I see, is being out somewhere away from home and wanting to take the top down. With the hardtop you just cant.

Would be way cooler though if it could be a targa-top style removable hardtop. Then you could have the best of both worlds!!

Yeah...so I'll keep in touch with those guys and see what they might consider. I'll keep you posted.

Anyone else know a respectable entity who could make these?? (if this doesn't pan out)?

Speedgraphic

Thanks for the info on mounting and how the lines will look.

I think it is a great idea - if it is something that we can afford...

ChevyKen

iTrader: (1)

Made a Photoshop-drawing of that (and some other changes) about a year back:




I think it would look great if done right!!


Ken

Speedgraphic

I have always wondered why GM Never made a hardtop /Trunk using the lines of the Thirdgen Vert... Great look!

Matthew91-Z28

Man...thats a great representation. Man that looks good. Once again, we are the bastard step child of the Vette, or so it seems. Removable hardtops were available on the C3's.

You know...I was thinking about something. I was doing an internet search for hardtops and came across an article at streetbeatcustoms on how to install a removable top on an S10. They give great photos of how to chop off your old top. It really doesn't look tough...just a little scary.

You could probably chop the top from a stock hardtop, install the latches up front and make brackets for it in the rear. For rear glass, just make a frame to hold a piece of glass that fits straight up and down. But, you'd have to either a) buy a parts car and do it in your driveway or b) figure a way to cut one off at the yard.

JRoy91RS

I've asked about these on here before, because I always thought it would be a great idea, and was surprised that no one ever made them. After all, there were actually quite a few 3rd gen 'verts made, especially if you compare the numbers to 'vettes. Lonsal from TDS said that he had tossed around the idea before, but that it would just be too costly for him to develop. I could try to find our discussion on this board, but I think that most of it was through emails and PM's. I would definitely be in for a group purchase, especially if the cost were less than the cost of replacing a soft top, which I'm not sure it would be. If the cost could be kept around 500-700 bucks, I think that would be reasonable. Of course, cheaper would be nicer! It just seems like the initial expense for someone to develop that product would be so expensive. And as more and more of our thirdgen 'verts find their way to the scrapyards or get lost in the weeds of trailer parks, the demand is going to decrease, which will make the possibility of someone ever developing such a product even more remote. So, if we want someone to do this, we need to act now! Thirdgen 'vert owners unite!!

JRoy91RS

I just looked on their website and they make tops for some pretty obscure cars. I can't believe that there is more demand for a hardtop for a Fiat 1600 Spider than there is for our cars. I learn something new everyday. Did they say how much their C4 vette tops cost? I think if we knew this, that would give us an idea as to how much a thirdgen top might cost, and it would be easier to guage interest based on cost.

I think the only downside to owning one is that it looks so damn good, I would be tempted to never take it off--even in nice weather! I'd venture to say that based on that awesome photoshop drawing above (nice job, btw), that our 'verts would look better with the hardtop than with the top down.
*putting on flame suit*

James

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

It deff. couldnt be done this cheap. I have 8yrs Exp working for a composit company doing molds,injections,hand layups, chop gun sprays etc...

Just to make a good mold to reproduce such a large piece cost a few $$. Then you have R&D. you cant just wip out a product and not have to redo it or perfect it.

It can be done. I thought about it for my very. A buddy Kenny and I have talked it over in great lengths befor.(He has over 20yrs in composit fab.) I just didnt feel the Need to continue the project any further then discussion.

We were gona step up and make the carbon fiber hoods everyone wants also but when it came down to fure sure nobody steped up then. 1 Person said he would take one 100% for sure and was willing to send a deposit. 1 out of how many dozen who said they would want one for sure Isnt enough to get a project of these calibers started.

JRoy91RS

So, if you were to estimate, how much do you think someone would charge? I'm not talking about carbon fiber, either, just plain old fiberglass would be fine. This is why I asked about the above website and what they charge for the C4 tops. That would give us a ballpark figure for what the cost would be for our cars.

Another nice advantage is that it would add a little more rigidity to our cars so they wouldn't flex quite as much. Or would that only be a nominal improvement seeing as how the top would connect in only 3 places? Now a top/cage kit--that would rock!:rockon:

Metal383

folding hardtop anyone?

JRoy91RS

A folding hardtop built on the soft top frame would be ok, but I wonder how good the fit would be. It seems like an ugly gap between the roof and rear section would be almost unavoidable. I don't know though, the folding hardtop for the Lexus SC430 looks pretty good, but that's a Lexus. You can hardly tell that it's a convertible. I would be willing to compromise if it looked decent.

Speedgraphic

Folding HARDTOP?

I doubt that anything that looked decent that was even in the realm of the affordable could be developed and would actually sell. The one piece removable hardtop would be relativly simple to build and install/un-install.

Just about anyone who builds fiberglass camper shells could easily come up with the product we need. Going that route development and construction costs should be fairly low and a fairly affordable top would be offered for sale.

I would wild guess that the purchase price of a folding hard top would be higher than the market value of most of our cars. Based on having shopped for a shell for my pickup I would wild guess that the cost of getting a fiberglass one piece unit would be somewhere between $500 and $1200.

The folding hard top might be a good idea but the cost of development/installation would make your production numbers very low and therefore not feasable for development...

That of course is my humble opinion and mostly based on SWAG (Scientific Wild Azzed Guess)!

Matthew91-Z28

Just to keep this up to date, I have not heard back from smoothline yet.

I have not run across many companies that do this stuff. Anyone have any other leads?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

If I was to actually take this project on id have to guess around 8-1200 per unit.. maybe come spring I'll do a 1 off for my car and see how time consuming and how much material is involved.

MrDude_1

no.


**errrrrrrrRRRRRRr (tire screeching noise as thread grinds to a halt**


they would have to make one for the birds thats diffrent then the camaros... the camaros are all similar, but someone would need to mesure to see what changed from top model to top model... theres more then one top frame... but thats all i know about it. i dont know exactly what changed year to year.
if the mounting points stayed constant though, it'll work.


like others were saying though, its not economical for a company to make though. suuure people want it.. but theres not enough demand with people who have money and want it.. think about this:

lets assume all the ASC camaro verts mount the same.

you have only camaro verts from 87-92
of thoes, you have to take out the ones that have been wrecked
of thoes, you take out the people who flat out arnt intrested
take out thoes who dont know about it
take out thoes who know about it, but dont have the money
take out thoes who wont commit to it until they see someone happy with the finished project.

and you're left with only a couple people that have the money to spend and the desire for one. and the higher the price, the less there are.


i have a removable hardtop to go on the spitfire.... its good for the winter months, but it has its drawbacks.... im in the south on the coast.. it may only be 32* when i got up this morning, but im expecting it to be a sunny 68* degrees when i leave for lunch. i drive with the top down.....

as nice as a hardtop sounds, it doesnt work for most people. thats why the concept died out..... the best of bothworlds of course is the folding hardtop.... but thats even pricier... youd have a better chance at finding someone to make you a one off removeable top then a folding hard top..


edit:
the hardtop did kickass in the north in winter.... its water and wind proof, insulated, and didnt cave under snow... plus you knwo you're going to have the top up for several months.

92rsconvertable

I was always interested in a hard top for my vert. one with t-tops would be great too. right now i jsut dont have the money for one.. but it doesnt look like it is too hard to make just time consuming to make it fit.

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Ive been debating this for well over a year now. I basically have all the technical things worked out, eg: how it will latch to the decklid and windshiled positions. Ill be needing a used top frame for some parts. Will also use hardtop window seals. As for construction Ill be using mostly fiberglass, possibly with steel reinforcements. My goal is to keep it as light as possible, so it can be a one person deal... dont wanna have to have someone help me take the thing off or put it on, as that would kinda be a nuisance.

Speedgraphic

I was thinking that someone who makes fiberglass camper shells for pickup trucks would be a logical party to contact about possibly making these. Of course they would need to believe that they could sell enough of these to make it profitable...

Matthew91-Z28

What would you think they'd use as a mold for the fiberglass? A hardtop camaro?

Speedgraphic

I would think that the way to go would be to take measurements of the ragtop frame and use these measurements to make the mold. This makes sense as they will already be using the droptop attachment points.

Speedgraphic

Here's a good one that is bound to cause some discussion:

I believe that we all agree that the hard top should conform to the lines of the vert top.

I also believe that most would prefer to have the top the same color as their paint...

Here is another idea that MIGHT make it easier to get someone to take on the project and it might cause the price of production to come down.

THE IDEA: Finish the hard top so that it looks like black stayfast?

WHY?: Our cars already sport that look. It's not like we would be putting VINYL on a hard top. (UGH!). Second, if you don't have to finish with shiny paint I think it will be less expensive to finish. Third, If you are not having to offer a wide selection of colors it might be easier to get someone to give it a try. Fourth, Matching paint would probably be hard. Many of us have custom paint or faded paint.

I believe simulated black stayfast over a fiberglass shell would be less expensive as well as easier for a MFG to produce... After the mould has been produced It might be possible to purchase one unfinished that we could take to a body shop to have painted (gel coated?) in the color we want - if that is your preference...

I just put on my teflon suit - Let me know what you think!!!!!!!


Speedy

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

I would pass on the shape of the top as it sits. Im going for a more aerodynamic, rounded look, *similar* to those made for vettes/new thunderbirds (without the circular window). Ill also be painting it body color, so it looks like it should be there... kinda that factory look.

Speedgraphic

I guess what I meant by following the shape of the existing droptop was because of the mounting points and excluding the hatchback of the hardtop as someone above seems to think we meant by a Removable HD top. I agree that a more rounded look would look better.

When are you going to make yours? What materials are you using?

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I see what your saying now. Yes, Ill be using the same dimensions as the top, along with the front latching hardware, and the rear frame part that locks into the tonneau. I might have a line on the used frame, so this might work out afterall! Im thinking of using the parts I mentioned, latching them to the top of the windshield pillar, and to the tonneau, then fabricating light steel bars of some sort to act as the bare framework, as well as hopefully a mounting point for the hardtop window seals. Once thats complete, Ill start laying the fiberglass and figure out how to do the window. These are only ideas, nothing on paper yet, so any input would definatley help!

89 Drop Top

Rob, sounds like a fun project!! I've been dying for a hard top for my car for the longest time! If you need a hand with fabrication, let me know, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have 2 prototypes around, especially one for your T/A, and one for my Camaro!!!!

Speedgraphic

One bit of useful information: This is according to the man who installed my new top. The Camaro Convertible Top is almost identical to the VETTE with one extra bow... and it has pins on each side on the back instead of the single pin in the middle. It could be that if we could find the company who is already making the Hard top for the vette that they might be able to merely extend the mid section of their design to accomodate the thirdgen top.

Matthew91-Z28

I thought about a modified vette top, but am not sure because of differences in door window dimensions.

Can anyone give me an idea about the steps required to fabricate/manufacture this? I'm a little ignorant on the subject. Where do you start?

MrDude_1

ive never done this before, but heres how I would go about doing it...

id first get a big block of foam, and rough shape it... put it over the car...

then smooth sand and file it until its perfectly the way i want it.

then pull it, and make a mold from it.

then using the mold id make the fiberglass shell.... then bond the mounting plates to it.. some kind of tubular reenforcement, ect...




btw, people, dont think that you can get away with jsut the 3 vert top latch points.
you'll need to solidly mount it from the rear sides... like the factory top does....

think about where it pivoits from going up and down

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Hm, good point about the pivot points. Ill devise a latch system to clamp down somewhere around that area then... totally forgot about it. My objective it to make this completley "bolt on", needing no modifications to the car itself.

And Derrik, yeah man I can use all the help I can get! If ya get a line on any cheap used top frames, lemme know!

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Hm, good point about the pivot points. Ill devise a latch system to clamp down somewhere around that area then... totally forgot about it. My objective it to make this completley "bolt on", needing no modifications to the car itself.

And Derrik, yeah man I can use all the help I can get! If ya get a line on any cheap used top frames, lemme know!

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Heck, if someone or company would make a fixed roof for a 91-92 vert, I'd be first in line. I'd go out and buy a vert just to make it a fixed roof coupe (Z06 of the camaro's)!!

THat would be the **** !!!

Can anyone photoshop a modded Z06 roof to a 91-92 vert ?

Metal383

I believe the notchback was designed to make the coupes have the same lines as verts (the originals from GM)

92rsconvertable

A notchback, with t-tops, removeable hard top is what i wanted to create once i have the time for it.. get the best of all worlds in one.

91zconvt

So let me get this straight. What you guys wanna make is pretty much the roof of a T-top car, right? I mean, from the T-tops back. So, it would only latch on the center of the windshield? How would that work for stability?

I'm probably just going to confuse everyone, but I tried to explain myself.

Speedgraphic

T Tops on a REMOVABLE HARD TOP?



What would be the purpose of that? Jeez!

Please count me out on any such nonsense.

I won't even try to describe my reaction to that idea except to say UGH!

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Who said anything about t-tops on the removable hard top? Wouldnt that be kinda pointless?

Speedgraphic

92rsconvertable about four posts up^

92rsconvertable

the reason i said t-tops in a removeable hard top is because in the begining of the season at least for me late feb early march i coudl have the t-tops off on my old 87 but the top on my 92 i cant drop till mid- late march. it would allow some of us to enjoy the benifits of no roof on the car earlier in the season.

theCure

alright first of all so sorry for bringing up and old dead post, but im just wondering if anybody ever completed this project or is in the process of completing it.

jonathan

89Vert

I've been thinking about making my own for awhile

if there were to be a group buy or something I would be very interested

Charlie's87

I'd pay a grand for a top that was similar to the one on the 'vette in the first pic... in fit and finish. That is sharp!

Maybe someone could take a fiberglass roof from Harwood, US22 or some other glass co, and mold it to a rear window from a GTA notchback, with the rear portion of the hatch cut off. I'm no fiberglass man, but that seems like a logical place to start!

john1221

I wondered if anyone has noticed that volvo has a auto retracting top and tonnoau cover that looks exactly like the third gen so maybe it is possible to find a wrecked one and grab the parts. I saw the car on tv on I think it was Car and Driver and rewound the replay a dozen times and it flipped up and folded the top exactly in the same places. but automatic.

I wish I knew what model it was because you coudl get a search on car-part.com

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

It is a Volvo C70. That model has been around for several years now. I suspect it it near the end of it's life. It's also not inexpensive. I had a salesman demonstrate the power top operation a few years back when I had my wifes Volvo in for their car care clinic.

Lon