flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

Awesome SC Mark...Love the color...That is one you don't see. I can't recall ever seeing a yellow SC & certainly not a vert.

Bill Speed

I've featured my own white and black 1989 ASC dealer Firebird convertible on the site from long ago, looking at archive photos, the first plate shots show it registered in 1997/98, and it's an 89 car! Paid $8,600 for it, down from originally over $10,000 listing by the female owner in Minneapolis, listed in Auto Trader on their front page at the time. Turns out it is one of nearly 60 cars produced in 1989 with the auto/350 L98 motor. Dealer ordered seems to be correct info on those, taken from T-top original production line.

Well, Originally I marked mine at $4500 for anyone interested in restoring it, at this point it's in even worse shape, coming out of another winter where I slid into someone's car on a downhill corner in the ice and snow! Mine is parked outside and driven year round, it was nice, and I believe CAN be if a donor car makes use of the convertible parts, the best solution is not as spendy as a ground up resto on the car itself. I just don't know anyone up to that challenge! The thing I am concerned for is that it doesn't ever wind up trashed in a junkyard, it runs real smooth despite it's "Holy" exhaust (out back, the muffler), the engine starts with some pumping of the gas, oddly, but it runs without knock, the TPI 350 has a minor leak in the gasket area. I bought any parts I could obtain that I thought I needed, replaced radiator, fuel pump and alternator not long ago, and recently, the tie-rod. The inner tie rods are still in bad shape as well the pitman arm I was told needs replacement. Losing steering happened in my parking lot over the winter, thank God! I did however, just lose the center GTA Screaming Chicken GTA rim cap off my pass. rear tire, and I am not a happy camper! I also have a new TopsOnline roof for the car that appears about an inch too small...it doesn't stretch out to cover the old one when layed over it, I am worried but I have to sell this or trade it to rectify the situation. The car only has 140,000 miles on it!

Bill Speed

I believe that is not the Firehawk that HPP magazine covered. It's red with Recaro seating, 5 point harness and roll cage. It also was about $60 thousand to buy, so there should be two perhaps? I thought we covered the High Performance Pontiac stats before, gentleman?!

THE4X4CAMAROMAN

ME 2 201 481-5173

Ragtop Man

Mine is an '87 Formula Convertible, ordered through the dealer after a great deal of back-and-forth about what to add (or delete). It's a triple black WS6 LB9, has 44K on it now, and not more than 10 of them in winter. Everything on it still works great, although one headlight is getting the droopy eye and takes a few flicks of the switch.

As for the conversation on some of the others: I spent a great deal of time talking with Jeff Beitzel of PASS, Dave Tiura and Ray Bush when that Turbo TA program was underway. There were indeed three convertibles built, all of which are now accounted for. Your dealer could have had one done for you, if you didn't mind tossing the sub-woofer speakers, hatch tops and defroster rear window in the trash (grin).

If anyone has a B2L convertible, pickle it and put it in a box, it is next to the TTA in rarity. The hatch tops were released only for an extremely brief time in '89 and '90 with the 350. They had aluminum prop shafts, acrylic tops, and a variety of other restrictions designed to sneak them into an EPA inertia weight category that would not cause a gas-guzzler penalty.

They were released for production only after the year's build schedule and EPA fleet CAFE number were calculated to the end of the year. This meant there was a very small window to order the cars, get them built and shipped before the market would go cold after Memorial Day. Plus, Formulas were supposed to cost less than T/A's... not more, and adding $1045 for the engine and $995 for the tops and custom interior would blow that out of the water pretty fast. I cannot believe there would be more than a few 350 Formula convertibles anywhere.

All in all a third gen convert makes everything good about the car better (style, noise, profile, envious glances) and everything that is bad that much worse (squeaks, rattles, drivetrain noise, etc)

slimwhitman

Ragtop Man: Since you are the original owner, I find it interesting to know why you orders a Firebird "aftermarket" convertible instead of buying a Camaro. How did you know you could even buy a Firebird convertible? Did you know about convertibles by other converters like Straman or Autoform (Straman converted them as late a '90)? Was your Pontiac dealer actively ordering these convertibles from ASC or did you make a special request?
It would seem to me that most customers wouldn't even know you could buy a Firebird convertible unless the local dealer was activily pushing/promoting them.

Ragtop Man

It was pure chance, good connections and some plain dumb luck.

At the time, I was a junior copywriter on the Pontiac account for Intergroup Marketing & Promotions, a subsidiary of Pontiac's ad agency. Because of my interest in racing and performance, I spent a lot of time with the Firebird and Fiero teams in the product planning and engineering side of the house, so to speak.

In that model year, Pontiac was really trying to re-light some interest in Firebird, the strategy of which is detailed in the Lou Wassel interview in HPP. I don't recall Lou having 100% of the brainstorms at that time -- Tom Goad and many others were very closely involved, too. (20/20 hindsight and all...)

I wrote all the training materials for Firebird, and proposed then wrote the '88 Performance Catalog and the '89 Pace Car Catalog, along with most of the race win ads, etc. To say I was an F-car fan is a huge understatement.

My first new car was an '84 S/E with the HO V-6 and 5-speed with WS6, a very rare machine itself. (There are pics in my fotki.com album ragtopman87)

When I knew the Formula would return, from my work with the team, I had inside knowlege that a stick would finally be available with FI, and that Formula would be the badass version to get. I placed an order early in the year for a black/black Formula, knowing LB9 and a stick would trigger all the good parts.

About that time, the Motor Trend story broke on the IROC ragtop. After reading it carefully, I noticed that the pictures of the conversion-in-process showed a Firebird custom interior. I took the magazine to show my Pontiac client contacts, who said, "Yeah, they sent a car over to us, but we're not signing on for it, too many quality problems".

Well, now my radar was buzzing. So, I went right to the top, and called Mike Alexander of ASC. Mike was a friend of our family, albeit distantly. Mike repeated most of the conversation that I'd had with Pontiac, but said they would sell them through dealers, and gave me the contact name in marketing to call for more details.

About 3 seconds later, I was dialing, and the contact confirmed that there were certain Firebirds that could be converted, and if I wanted one, to have the salesperson contact him to sort the details. He said the only real mandatory was a CC1 Hatch Roof to get all the underbody reinforcement. He suggested deleting the rear defrost and subwoofer speakers, because those would hit the trash, as well as the cargo cover screen.

So, I made a beeline back to Fresard (ex-Royal Pontiac) to withdraw and resubmit the order opposite to my original intent -- adding T-Tops, deleting the subwoofer speakers, cargo screen, and defroster, making it a completely unsalable freek if I ever backed out. It took a few calls between the dealer and car distribution to work out the new order, but the guy in Car D was a good, good friend and source... who also worked on the SD programs and had a lot of sympathy for the project. I knew this would be a once-in-a-lifetime chance to order a car that would be a 1 of 1, and so it got every box checked except for the touch control radio.

After several production holds on the LB9/MM5 powertrain which dangled for months on the EPA CAFE **** list, it finally got built at Norwood, thanks to a little pull from my friends in Central Office (their paint was a lot better than VanNuys). I don't have an exact date of production, but, it would have been one of the last, because I'm pretty sure Norwood closed at or before the end of the model year.

The car landed at the dealer for a day (on my birthday, IIRC) and then went to ASC in Livonia, MI for its conversion. In the process it picked up a good sized scrape on the bumper cover, and ugly *** chrome rocker moldings that covered the weld seams on the rockers.

Picked it up about a month or so later, and after some initial problems, took it back to the factory, where I met Mike Heuhn. Mike red-balled the car through their repair system, getting the top aligned and sorting some bugs in the hatch release. They also cut down some other black moldings to replace the bright ones, which I still have in my attic.

Since then, it's been my summer toy, met my wife driving it, proposed to her in it, took it on several trips with her including our honeymoon. It's not the fastest thing on the street, but it goes good, and people who know a thirdgen know how rare it really is. It will need a top soon, and a little incidental garage rash taken out, but it is still 99% of the car I took delivery of 24 years ago last March.

HTH, and if I can answer any other questions, LMK.

slimwhitman

That's a great story. That stuff gets lost as time goes by, so thanks for laying all out there. It sounds like you were not aware of conversions by other companies? Maybe you were, but were not interested since non-factory convertibles had a reputation for being sloppily built (not always true). I think your story helps us understand why Pontiac might have passed on the ASC convertible during the late '80s.

Ragtop Man

Yes, I'd seen the Stramann and other conversions, and all of them looked awkward to me compared to ASC. To me, the top-up profile from most angles is even better than top-down, and that's coming from a confirmed fastback lover. Plus, they cost a lot more than ASC.

I'd visited their plants and HQ in Southgate MI several years prior as a guest of Mike -- he lived across the street in Grosse Isle from our family dentist -- he grew up in the same Downriver city as Mom, and his wife was her lifelong BFF. We spent an afternoon in '78 with them, and it was awesome -- got to drive Mike's Pantera, even.

So, I knew from their history that if anyone was going to get it right, it would be ASC, and if I was ever going to get a car like that, it would be then.

At the time, the F-car had not yet acquired the ******-haired reputation it would get later. Four different agency people owned them at once, three Formulas (2 350s) and a couple of GTA's, including one notch coupe. When mine was done, it sure got a lot of attention from different people. The Creative Director wanted to know all about it, and I strongly believe it helped me get an assignment that let to a series of great opportunites. The building services manager just got pi$$ed whenever I left it in the officer's parking lot (would eventually get promoted to that status a few years later) and told me to get it the @#$ out of there before he towed it.

I've contemplated a number of upgrades, but its rarity always kept me from pulling the trigger. An LS3 sure would make it a sweet automobile, though.

BOB

Blew-By-You

I'm betting if this is for real, they don't appear very often:

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/cto/2457628966.html

Ragtop Man

Sure looks real to me, but was never a fan of the gray with red and gold trim/wheels. Probably a LB9/Auto... only prob with these is that high miles make them loooooooooooooose and it would take a pretty dedicated resto to get it back to original.

Good part is by '89 they had a few years of experience with them, and parts are a lot easier to get.

Blew-By-You

I believe earlier GTA's could have the 305 but by '89 I thought all GTA's had the 350.. I don't know if that is gospel as I thought Pontiac was able to sneak 350 equipped cars into convertible form whereas there are no 350 Camaro 'verts. Either way, that car does need a lot of love. Can't say for certain if it is grey or tan, however, the seats are certainly from a 4th gen bird.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I just happen to own a, one of 42ish, 89 formula 350 ASC vert.
Its a solid light blue with dark blue top and gray interior. The motor was blown up by the PO and I have it at machine shop now.
I also found a NOS dark blue top 4 her.
As found condition..

And then I also have this one..
JY 92 T/A vert 305 auto WS6 car

JT

iTrader: (1)

The 350TPI was standard on the GTA. However, you could opt for the 305 auto or 305 5-speed. There is no doubt that some 1989 GTA Convertibles with the 350 existed. In 1989, you could order a GTA with the 350 and T-Tops (factory CC1). As a Convertible usually started out as a T-Top, this is how those cars became available. 1989 was the one year were it was possible to get a 1989 GTA with the 350 and factory T-Tops. Any other year it was either not available, or it had restrictions (such as 1987 being restricted to Canadian market only).

The car in question has several issues. It doesn't have the correct steering wheel as it appears to have a 1987 GTA steering wheel. It has 4th generation seats. Side molding is missing. Center caps appear to be incorrect for the application and the VATs appears to have been removed/bypassed. All picky issues that could be corrected.

Blew-By-You

Thank you for the info. My friend had an '89 350 T-Topped GTA so I was aware they existed although I didn't know '89 was the sole year (do you know the total # by chance?). Funny though if 350 TPI was standard that anyone would opt for the 305 TPI w/ auto.

88ragtop

I spoke with an older lady at a country club here in Baton Rouge, La. several years ago. She was in a yellow and gold convert and she told me it was an 87. It had that little piece of trim on the top of the door that my 88 does not have. A few years after that I talked with a guy working at advance auto that bought the car from her and he said it was an 87 also.

88ragtop

I spoke with an older lady at a country club here in Baton Rouge, La. several years ago. She was in a yellow and gold convert and she told me it was an 87. It had that little piece of trim on the top of the door that my 88 does not have. A few years after that I talked with a guy working at advance auto that bought the car from her and he said it was an 87 also.

-srs-

I've wanted to post in here for a while but never really felt my car was worthy. For what it's worth, I have a one of fifty Marlboro sweepstakes convertible. 39,000 miles. Perfect interior. Pics are out on the shutterfly link in my sig.

http://marlboroz28.shutterfly.com/

slimwhitman

OK.....so you got me curious. What is the story on the "Marlboro" special edition. Does it have anything special other than the Marlboro badge? Was the sweepstakes a national campaign or a regional one? Was the "special edition" status recognized by GM..or is it considered "aftermarket"?

As smoking gets more and more taboo, this car gets more interesting. I like it.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I remember Marlboro did many special editions, they also did SY TY trucks!
I videoed them back in the day. Still have them on my old Car craft Dequoin street machine natinals vids!

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

TTOP350,
Your Formy vert looks just like my 88. I have the 305 A4 combo and mine still has the factory black cloth top. Do you have the power moter pull down for the top?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Hard to see it in the pic but the org top on mine is dark blue. it also has a manual top. I didnt think any asc cars got a power top???

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Mmm, I never knew of any of the verts to have power tops.

Ragtop Man

There are no power tops.

The pull down for the rear bow is powered in every Firebird I've seen, never saw it in the Camaro. The folding and stowing operation is the same.

Firebird decklids have power pull downs that sometimes get a little fussy (mine did) but usually they come back to life.

twood

I don't have much of a story. I have an 87 Camaro LT vert. There were only 263 sport coupe verts made in 87 and being an LT makes it even rarer. I only know of one other person who has one like mine. These were 20th Anniversary cars too.

I found this car on Craigslist last year while looking for a convertible project car. The previous owner didn't want to sell it to a young kid who was going to run it into the ground. He decided to sell it to me because I knew more about the car than he did and he knew I would take care of it.




Here's a link to my album:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/album.php?albumid=3845

jeffro40004

I may have the last Iroc Convertible produced. Build date Dec 18 89! Take into account shutdown for the holidays, and there weren't many more made after that!

twood

Nice car. I like the color.
Someday my car will shine like that.

darrelldta

I think mine is rare. 1991 Trans Am 5spd. Canadian car. Only 16 sold in Canada and the only one I have ever seen without A/C.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Pix !!!!!

3rd-gen fan

* Deleted *

Chris 84TA

that looks like an autoform 2 seater... mine has all 4 seats usable

Andre#4

I like that LT camaro. That was a nice pattern they had for the leather seats. I always wondered why any camaros could have beautiful deluxe leather interiors, even if they were RS, or 1LE, or whatever, even as late as 1992. but after 1986, the only firebirds that could have leather or deluxe interiors had to be GTA's.

I have a little bit of a story here, it is at the bottom below the pictures. Basically, I was able to find one of the ragtop tta's. I had to sell internal organs to pay for it. It has 8k miles, and it is in new condition. It has been in one mag and 4 books.









There was mention in the beginning of this thread about this car. It is from california. It was not ordered by a customer though. It was ordered by the dealer, at the request of Pontiac Motor Division. The dealer then advertised it in the paper. Then, the customer came to buy it at 9am the next morning, for $50,000. (this is 1989 dollars here, you could buy a new cadillac or corvette for high 20's in those days) The buyer had to fight with another guy who also wanted it at 9am that same morning. I have proof of everything about this car. 100 seperate pieces of paper. Every paper since before the car was sold to today. The binder is 3" thick. I even have the newspaper with the ad for the car from 1989, with the VIN in the ad. The original owner owned it for 19 years and 8k miles. The second owner had it a year or 2, and then I got it. This was the first of only 2 TTA ragtops built. It was the only one built as a new car. The only one with leather. There is another ragtop tta that was built in 1988 as a t-top car, and converted a year later into a convertible, at the end of the model year. It was originally owned by the PAS firm that was in charge of engineering the tta's. The firm used it as a show car and press car from 1988 to 1989, and when the show duties were over, Jeff Beitzel, who ran PAS, had the car made into a convertible. That car is in atlanta now, in a garage with some other rare tta cars.




Here it is again, in the Standard Catalog of Firebird 1967-2002 by John Gunnel


And here is a copy of an old magazine article from Muscle Car Review. (remember when car mags were black and white?)





My car has an annoying gold pinstripe down low just above the ground effects. I wish it wasn't there, because it makes a shadow where the stuff attaches and makes the gap look bigger than it is. I started to rip it off, but decided I shouldn't make changes to this car. I suppose the dealer thought that this was an improvement. Anyway, this car goes like stink, and is fun to drive because of the sounds it makes from the turbo v6 motor. The sounds are so much louder without a roof, plus, you are able to hear the exhaust coming out the back. With t tops, you can't hear much of that, because these cars have such quiet exhausts. It makes very strange sounds compared to what most of the people here are used to. nothing at all like a v8 motor. Imagine a sound made up of a standard 2.8 liter v6, and jet engine, combined. The jet is louder of course, so the motor sound is quiet, compared. And when the car is shooting forward at such incredible acceleration, the v6 sound doesn't make much sense. It's like, why do I hear a quiet v6? It is behind a huge rush of air, and a jet engine sound, but surely that little v6 can't be making this car go...

It is not fast by todays standards, but in 1989 it was the quickest and fastest american car available at any price. 4.6 sec 0-60, 13.4 sec 1/4 mile, 162-167mph top speed, with no modifications. there was no speed limiter. the top speed was redline limited if I recall. It has been many years since I have gone that fast in one of these, but I seem to recall the needle on the red line. Probably a different rear end ratio, or another gear would have allowed more speed, because it accelerates very fast at high speeds. once 4th gear kicks in at 120mph, it speeds up with very fast acceleration right to the redline. It is not like sitting around in a L98 or LT1 car with your foot on the floor, waiting for the top speed to happen. Those v8's didn't have much acceleration on top speed runs. I remember we used to play with the new camaros in the mid 1990's and we couldn't believe how long it took to get up to 150. I had a GTA then with a 350, and it was the same story. Anyway, we both sold our cars and got tta's because we wanted to beat the mustangs in our area (which all had nitrous or 355 gears or both). We hated those mustangs so much. (as much as I hated them, I get nostalgic when I see one these days...those stupid looking things with 4 lug wheels, drum brakes, pinto engineering, etc etc etc) We didn't know how to soup cars, but I remembered reading about the tta and how fast it was. So I got my buddy to buy one. He was 16, and his dad had just bought him a brand new 1995 Z28 fully loaded green/tan leather and bose cd, etc. (the one we played with). It took some doing to convince his dad that the prudent thing to do was to sell this new car back to the dealer at a huge loss, and buy someone elses 6 year old used american car instead. Anyway, I went along to test the tta out for him, because he didn't know anything about cars. Luckily, we found a fast one. Not all tta's are fast, and I wouldn't have known that then. Some of them don't run right because of people messing with them who don't know what they are doing. Or from neglect. Anyway once I drove that fast tta for the first time, I realized I couldn't live with my 350 gta anymore, and I got a tta for myself within a week. before the year was out, 3 people in our school had turbo ta's. And it was a tiny school. We were young and dumb. I had a GTO, which we called a goat. So, we called the GTA a gate. Then the tta came and it was a tate. How stupid and silly were we then? Well, we had lots of time on our hands to do and say silly things. This was before we had vices and jobs to occupy our time.

Of course I missed my gta terribly, because it was bright red. It looked like a ferrari compared to the white car. Well enough stories of my childhood. Lots of water went under the bridge. 15 years went by, Then I found the ragtop.

abray1

Did Emerson Fittipaldi get one like was stated at the beginning of this thread? He won the Indy 500 in 1989. I saw the race and he kicked everyones but and if he has the other car I wonder where it is or if he sold it like a lot of them did. Rick mears won in 1990 I think and he was given a ZR-1 corvette by chevrolet. I wonder where that car is?

Andre#4

Emmerson Fittipaldi still has his TTA that he got from the race. He also bought another one for himself, so he could have one in each country that he lives in. He has some 17" Fittipaldi wheels on his. He even involves it in press functions, and talks publicly about how much he loves it. It was in some kind of exhibit a couple years ago, in some other country I forger which.

streetpro

mine is rare to me its the only one i have,mine was a special order from ed bozarth in topeka,in 1987 it came with a 350/5 speed/9 bolt rear end.just a plain vert,motor made some knocking noises,so it was replaced with a big block 454, 700r4, engine is built, tranny is built.its a beast, with the top down it looks like your moms camaro,but runs like dads ac cobra. With the big motor it lost its ac.handles the same as with small block,the longest trip with it was to kansas city for a car show with the big engine,its alot of fun to drive.needs a new top but top is usually folded in the hatch no one sees it.its no show car but its a clean car. its just a plain camaro with no rust and clean inside that i never get tired of driving.also you could not get the 350/5 speed in the convertible unless it was special ordered.i dont think many of these were ordered.263 sport coup convertibles were produced, info from thirdgen,744 Z28 & IROC-Z convertibles were produced.

streetpro

Up top of this thread is 1987 Lt that looks kinda like mine,my car did not get the 20th aniversery thing on the dash.
Is the LT the middle priced camaro and the sport coup is the cheap one.

twood

The LT is a sport coupe with all of the options like power windows, locks, and leather seats etc., so I guess you could call it the middle priced Camaro. The IROCs cost more with all of the options.

slimwhitman

Since your car did not get the 20th Anniv badge on the dash, I would bet your car pre-dates the official release by Chevrolet of the convertible. I would also bet your car was privately contracted by Bozarth Chevrolet to have ASC convert the car.

Please provide your VIN and the date of manufacture and we can tell you for sure. Also...is there an ASC label in the driver door opening?

slimwhitman

Since your car did not get the 20th Anniv badge on the dash, I would bet your car pre-dates the official release by Chevrolet of the convertible. I would also bet your car was privately contracted by Bozarth Chevrolet to have ASC convert the car.

Please provide your VIN and the date of manufacture and we can tell you for sure. Also...is there an ASC label in the driver door opening? (if you are uncomfortable with submitting your VIN, send it to me via PM or email to: kcdesoto1 (at) hotmail.com )

streetpro

There is an asc sticker on the door also this one came with a 5.7 liter with 5 speed with brog warner 9 bolt rear end.I had the motor and tranny changed out.454 with 700r4.

slimwhitman

Again....send me your VIN and build date to verify if the conversion is "factory" or aftermarket. Both were done by ASC.

northernboy56

Hello, I have just joined this site and have recently bought a 1984 Camaro Convertible converted by Auto Form Corp from Elkhart Indiana (now defunct) Question is........any idea where I could get a replacement top would prefer the orginal supplier? if known or a company capable of making a OEM style Any info help would be appreciated

I'M THE BATMAN

After looking threw this thread , Mine may not be so rare , But is was one of the last ones off of the assembly line , As the plant closed 5 work days later. I have not seen an identical car , Ever , Anywhere.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I just caught this, 5.7 and 5spd? That would be the only one ever released to the public. Could it have been swapped? Sure, but I doubt GM built it that way. (I have a 89 formula 350 auto asc vert)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...0-tpi-l98.html

BADNBLK

iTrader: (11)

I didn't realize yours was such a late production. Even cooler

I'M THE BATMAN

Thanks brother.
I wish i could find a better breakdown of the last week of production . But short of running into a guy that worked there the last week - It's not gonna happen.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

This may help get you started, if you haven't seen it http://www.last1992camaro.com/about/

I'M THE BATMAN

Ya , I've seen it . What a great story . Thanks.

I did get some new info When i tried a free trial on compnine , It said 1 0f 538 RS convertibles with the ZO3 heritage package for 1992 . Thats a pretty low number for a year of production. So maybe it's one of the last 5 red with grey cust. cloth int. ever made . I'd be pretty happy with that. LOL . I started the car today and let it run for a few mins. It was a pretty warm day . 46 degrees I wanted to go for a ride so bad , But the roads are caked with white salt , So i just sat in it and pretended to go for a romp . lol. Hurry up chicago Springtime !

sonjaab

Check out www.camarosource.ca
They have some production numbers...........

tri power

iTrader: (1)

I have 2 documented 1992 Z-28 Heritage Cars, one a hardtop and one a convertible, both have red cloth interior and both are automatics. Great cars, my husband also has a 92 B4C with factory roll bar installed this car was from the Doraville Georgia police department. So how rare do you think this cars are?