Ultimate Cooling Solution
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Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
From: colorado
Car: 1992 Trans/am convertible
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 drum WS6
Ultimate Cooling Solution
Alright, I went for months fighting with my car's cooling system. I replaced everything and I fought everything
. This set up that I came up with should cool anyones car.
First,
Things you need!
In order of importance.
1. AIR DAM-- I cant stress enough that this is essential to your cars cooling system. Its what keeps the car cool after it goes to open loop.
2. DECENT RADIATOR/ FLUSHING
You will need to flush your radiator, and if its clogged or leaking replace it. Once you flush it, it will rid the system of air and it will fill up the car 50% of water (I will elaborate on that later). Of corse with radiator comes a RADIATOR CAP with 15psi or more.
3. FAN.
If you dont have a fan, you are overheating (Period)
3.5 FAN SWITCH.
A fan switch will help you engage the fan earlier than its pre/set 210 I belive. So this will help you cool down the monster.
4. HOSES.
One bad hose, and your car is going up on the heat charts. Think of it as a stop to a already imperfect cooling system. Check them and replace them.
5. WATER PUMP-- Unless its leaking the water pump is good to replace after all the top ones. However, if you feel like its not doing good, replace it.
Replacing the water pump on stock engines will probably yield the most notice when in.
6. THERMOSTAT. Yes its #6, From my experience you will not run that much cooler with a lower thermo (Unless its 160, and I never used that one, so I cant tell you how it works or if it does at all). I have come to learn that you need a tune for the car to run cooler. If you do decide to go with 180/170 thermos I would suggest drilling a tiny (very tiny) hole in the thermo for venting. It will help with running cooler. I would not recommend running without a thermo, some people did it with success, others did not. My experience is that of overheating after a long drive. So, just get a lower thermo.
7. OVERFLOW TANK-- Some cars just dont come with those. Get one.
8. Chip TUNE-- If you really hate running 200 after all of the mods, than get a chip tune. Not only will u pick up 20 horses, but you will run cooler, but at an expense of 91 octane
.
9HEATER CORE
Heater core, if busted will have you run hotter, so change it. If its stock it will probably bust if you take that engine anywhere over the redline. (Bad experience, good thing to replace)
Ok, now to Flushing.
I found flushing of your system as the most important. You get one of those kits from autozone. Its a kit that ties into your heater core line and you hook up a garden hose to it. Than run water through it and it will flush out of your raditor. This is great since it gets rid of the air inside and flushes out whatever is not needed. Than when you are done, the engine is already full of water, and all you need is pure antifreeze to top it off. If you are still worried about getting hot, than top it off with 50/50, but be warned that you will have to change this come winter.
So if you are not sure, go along this list. If you know the culprit exchange it.
Now, I will attempt to figure out whats conected with what, and how will it effect the cooling system.
AIR DAMN really needs to be there, you will not run cool no matter what you do. Unless you get a bad *** racing radiator and make a grille, but that would be too much of work and money.
RADIATOR you need to have one, it its leaking change it, if its clogged flush it, but take care of it.
FAN another essential, you need it, otherwize you will keep on climbing on that guage. It will usually drop down after the thermo opens, but than it will climb up to redline.
HOSES, I never had a problem with a hose before, but I belive from reading on the boards, if you leave the car on after its heated up checking your hoses will tell you whats going on. The bottom one usually collapses if its not installed with a spring in it.
top one usually leaks more than it collapses.
WATER PUMP is straight forward. It has a little hole where it will leak if its broken. If you still have the stock one, it would be a good thing to replace it.
THERMOSTAT-- They usually dont fail much, but if they do these symptoms can be seen (from my experience).
Stuck closed-- Highly unlikely unless the installation was wrong. They usually get stuck open which is their fail safe mechanism.you will go up straight without any drops. Unlike a fan where it will drop the temp when its open but it will climb up due to no fan.
Stuck open-- symptoms are very slow warm up and sluggish performance due to lack of engine temp (its called operating temperature for a reason). It will overheat after long trips (my experience).
OVERFLOW tank. Its where the radiator gets rid of the "overflow" coolant, but it sucks it in as well. So if you think that you can just let the radiator leak it out than it will be a problem. You will be suprised of how many cars I have seen without one. I have heard two things.
1." It will leak it out, and I dont care where it falls" It does need that same coolant back in when its shut down, so dont do that.
2. "I am keeping it in the radiator" This is even sillier, you can just keep it in. Eventually the preassure will build up to where it will bust through overflow and bust whatever you put in there to close it. It will, I swear.
CHIP TUNE. From what I have learned, the chip tune for the car to run cooler and perform better is essential. If you tune it up it will take the full advangate of the thermostat.
HEATER CORE. I busted one racing a riced out cavalier, so I belive they should be replaced with new ones. Because they are old, because they are fragile if stock. You will run hotter if you busted one, and heating your car will just fog up your windows. Its on the bottom of the list, but be aware of it. It will make you run hotter.
Now, onto benefits of other things that did not come with you r car, but would be nice to have.
1. RACING RADIATOR/ COOLERS
A bigger, not racing necessarily, radiator will help the cooling very much. Also, the coolers for oil and transmission will keep your temps down.
2. TWO FAN SYSTEMS.
Found on some third gens, these are a bit better than stock, if wired to a switch these would keep you cool.
3. AFTERMARKET FAN.
Getting a bigger and badder fan would always help out, however if you did not check all of the possiblities for your cooling problem you might not notice any gains.
4. PUSHER AND PULLER
I have talked to many people, and saw many weird things about pusher and puller fans. Although they sound great in theory they dont deliver due to strange forces (well not really).
If you were to mount two of them one on each side of your radiator you will create a deadzone of air and it will actually not circulate air, or not enough air. I've seen people with these set ups and overheating was imminent. I think that if you matched up two fans with same speed and same radius you will get the desired result. However, I havent tried that so I cant recomend it.
I am getting brain dead right now, please if you have any more suggestions or you dont agree, write back and/ or add.
All of this was my experience with 5 cars, two third gens and three other including a second gen. I have experimented with millions of different thermostats and hoses, radiators etc. I have found a decent combo, but a lack of grill still keeps me at about 200 on a 90degree day going up the mountains for a half hour at 90mph. Take it for what its worth. I belive that this will help all those people that have a problem with cooling, but dont know what to do.
Later on I will post how to replace these things and what to look for.
Thanks.
(let me know if am wrong on any of this, I appreciate it.)
. This set up that I came up with should cool anyones car.First,
Things you need!
In order of importance.
1. AIR DAM-- I cant stress enough that this is essential to your cars cooling system. Its what keeps the car cool after it goes to open loop.
2. DECENT RADIATOR/ FLUSHING
You will need to flush your radiator, and if its clogged or leaking replace it. Once you flush it, it will rid the system of air and it will fill up the car 50% of water (I will elaborate on that later). Of corse with radiator comes a RADIATOR CAP with 15psi or more.
3. FAN.
If you dont have a fan, you are overheating (Period)
3.5 FAN SWITCH.
A fan switch will help you engage the fan earlier than its pre/set 210 I belive. So this will help you cool down the monster.
4. HOSES.
One bad hose, and your car is going up on the heat charts. Think of it as a stop to a already imperfect cooling system. Check them and replace them.
5. WATER PUMP-- Unless its leaking the water pump is good to replace after all the top ones. However, if you feel like its not doing good, replace it.
Replacing the water pump on stock engines will probably yield the most notice when in.
6. THERMOSTAT. Yes its #6, From my experience you will not run that much cooler with a lower thermo (Unless its 160, and I never used that one, so I cant tell you how it works or if it does at all). I have come to learn that you need a tune for the car to run cooler. If you do decide to go with 180/170 thermos I would suggest drilling a tiny (very tiny) hole in the thermo for venting. It will help with running cooler. I would not recommend running without a thermo, some people did it with success, others did not. My experience is that of overheating after a long drive. So, just get a lower thermo.
7. OVERFLOW TANK-- Some cars just dont come with those. Get one.
8. Chip TUNE-- If you really hate running 200 after all of the mods, than get a chip tune. Not only will u pick up 20 horses, but you will run cooler, but at an expense of 91 octane
.9HEATER CORE
Heater core, if busted will have you run hotter, so change it. If its stock it will probably bust if you take that engine anywhere over the redline. (Bad experience, good thing to replace)
Ok, now to Flushing.
I found flushing of your system as the most important. You get one of those kits from autozone. Its a kit that ties into your heater core line and you hook up a garden hose to it. Than run water through it and it will flush out of your raditor. This is great since it gets rid of the air inside and flushes out whatever is not needed. Than when you are done, the engine is already full of water, and all you need is pure antifreeze to top it off. If you are still worried about getting hot, than top it off with 50/50, but be warned that you will have to change this come winter.
So if you are not sure, go along this list. If you know the culprit exchange it.
Now, I will attempt to figure out whats conected with what, and how will it effect the cooling system.
AIR DAMN really needs to be there, you will not run cool no matter what you do. Unless you get a bad *** racing radiator and make a grille, but that would be too much of work and money.
RADIATOR you need to have one, it its leaking change it, if its clogged flush it, but take care of it.
FAN another essential, you need it, otherwize you will keep on climbing on that guage. It will usually drop down after the thermo opens, but than it will climb up to redline.
HOSES, I never had a problem with a hose before, but I belive from reading on the boards, if you leave the car on after its heated up checking your hoses will tell you whats going on. The bottom one usually collapses if its not installed with a spring in it.
top one usually leaks more than it collapses.
WATER PUMP is straight forward. It has a little hole where it will leak if its broken. If you still have the stock one, it would be a good thing to replace it.
THERMOSTAT-- They usually dont fail much, but if they do these symptoms can be seen (from my experience).
Stuck closed-- Highly unlikely unless the installation was wrong. They usually get stuck open which is their fail safe mechanism.you will go up straight without any drops. Unlike a fan where it will drop the temp when its open but it will climb up due to no fan.
Stuck open-- symptoms are very slow warm up and sluggish performance due to lack of engine temp (its called operating temperature for a reason). It will overheat after long trips (my experience).
OVERFLOW tank. Its where the radiator gets rid of the "overflow" coolant, but it sucks it in as well. So if you think that you can just let the radiator leak it out than it will be a problem. You will be suprised of how many cars I have seen without one. I have heard two things.
1." It will leak it out, and I dont care where it falls" It does need that same coolant back in when its shut down, so dont do that.
2. "I am keeping it in the radiator" This is even sillier, you can just keep it in. Eventually the preassure will build up to where it will bust through overflow and bust whatever you put in there to close it. It will, I swear.
CHIP TUNE. From what I have learned, the chip tune for the car to run cooler and perform better is essential. If you tune it up it will take the full advangate of the thermostat.
HEATER CORE. I busted one racing a riced out cavalier, so I belive they should be replaced with new ones. Because they are old, because they are fragile if stock. You will run hotter if you busted one, and heating your car will just fog up your windows. Its on the bottom of the list, but be aware of it. It will make you run hotter.
Now, onto benefits of other things that did not come with you r car, but would be nice to have.
1. RACING RADIATOR/ COOLERS
A bigger, not racing necessarily, radiator will help the cooling very much. Also, the coolers for oil and transmission will keep your temps down.
2. TWO FAN SYSTEMS.
Found on some third gens, these are a bit better than stock, if wired to a switch these would keep you cool.
3. AFTERMARKET FAN.
Getting a bigger and badder fan would always help out, however if you did not check all of the possiblities for your cooling problem you might not notice any gains.
4. PUSHER AND PULLER
I have talked to many people, and saw many weird things about pusher and puller fans. Although they sound great in theory they dont deliver due to strange forces (well not really).
If you were to mount two of them one on each side of your radiator you will create a deadzone of air and it will actually not circulate air, or not enough air. I've seen people with these set ups and overheating was imminent. I think that if you matched up two fans with same speed and same radius you will get the desired result. However, I havent tried that so I cant recomend it.
I am getting brain dead right now, please if you have any more suggestions or you dont agree, write back and/ or add.
All of this was my experience with 5 cars, two third gens and three other including a second gen. I have experimented with millions of different thermostats and hoses, radiators etc. I have found a decent combo, but a lack of grill still keeps me at about 200 on a 90degree day going up the mountains for a half hour at 90mph. Take it for what its worth. I belive that this will help all those people that have a problem with cooling, but dont know what to do.
Later on I will post how to replace these things and what to look for.
Thanks.
(let me know if am wrong on any of this, I appreciate it.)
Last edited by xlwhellraiser; Jun 23, 2005 at 01:09 AM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,330
Likes: 0
From: MN
Car: 1989 Formy droptop/88 Deville
Engine: L98 350 TPI
Transmission: factory RWD, WS6 susp
If yours is like mine, with poor, degraded, leaking gaskets, you need to replace them as well, for me, I'm making do with a hint of antifreeze and mostly water for the summer. It's VERY costly to have a 50/50 mix leaking constantly. I'm allowing some cool time and using the water on top of the hot engine to help it cool down as well, though that's a minor fix.
I was going to add Prolong after a much needed oil change....they forgot that request, so now I only have the oil in my system. I did opt for high mileage synthetic blend, but the car has still overheated... I agree the fans seem a BIG factor. On my car, the air dam portion that goes from fender to fender was removed so I could get at the nose bolt attachments... I need to replace my bumper but so far, the replacement needs new paint still. That's another subject though, but certainly doesn't aid my cooling either
BILL
I was going to add Prolong after a much needed oil change....they forgot that request, so now I only have the oil in my system. I did opt for high mileage synthetic blend, but the car has still overheated... I agree the fans seem a BIG factor. On my car, the air dam portion that goes from fender to fender was removed so I could get at the nose bolt attachments... I need to replace my bumper but so far, the replacement needs new paint still. That's another subject though, but certainly doesn't aid my cooling either
BILL
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 909
Likes: 1
From: New York
Car: 91 Firebird
Engine: 3.1 V6
Transmission: TH-700-R4
Radiator Cooling Additives:
"Water Wetter" by Redline
"Purple Ice" by Royal Purple
"40 Below" by 40 Below
All are available at your local auto store.
"Water Wetter" by Redline
"Purple Ice" by Royal Purple
"40 Below" by 40 Below
All are available at your local auto store.
Thread Starter
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,122
Likes: 1
From: colorado
Car: 1992 Trans/am convertible
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 2.73 drum WS6
I would think that gaskets are very important and you usually get a gasket when you get the waterneck. I dont know of any other ones, other than head gasket, but than its a serious problem.
Anyway, to get rid of a leaking system, pin point all the leaks first. Replace everything that is leaking, dont try to fix it. Than get a new waterneck gasket and some silicone for gaskets. Apply some and give it an hour to dry. Tighten down both of the bolts very frickin' tight, and you will have no leaks. Than flush, to essentially burp it and you will have no leaks and no overheating.
I am not sure from what you wrote, if you have an air dam or not, but if its gone, GET THE AIR DAM BACK ON, OR BUY A NEW ONE.
Air dam maintains your operating themperature by getting air to the radiator and engine. IF its gone not even the best cooling system will save you from overheating. ITS TRUE.
Anyway, to get rid of a leaking system, pin point all the leaks first. Replace everything that is leaking, dont try to fix it. Than get a new waterneck gasket and some silicone for gaskets. Apply some and give it an hour to dry. Tighten down both of the bolts very frickin' tight, and you will have no leaks. Than flush, to essentially burp it and you will have no leaks and no overheating.
I am not sure from what you wrote, if you have an air dam or not, but if its gone, GET THE AIR DAM BACK ON, OR BUY A NEW ONE.
Air dam maintains your operating themperature by getting air to the radiator and engine. IF its gone not even the best cooling system will save you from overheating. ITS TRUE.
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