OK, My car is in storage now, but i plan on tuning in open loop when my car comes out in the spring, as im getting tired of chasing bugs in the tune.--- Im using tuner pro with a 7747 ecm and im a crossfire---My question is , how do i set up bin to tune in open loop ???,--- AND another dumb question is do you then just record, then read your afr from wide ban and then just adjust your FUEL at the rpm/map your checking ??? -- if so, seems it would take quite awhile doing each rpm/map ? -p.s. cat conv, is only visable, but not there.----

 

To disable closed loop, you will need to look in the constants/scalers box that appears on the right side of your screen. There will be a setting in there called "closed loop enable min. temp". Just max that out using the slider bar. Doing that will ensure you will never reach that temperature, thus never going into closed loop. This is how it is done using the $8d xdf, but I'm sure it will be very similar on whatever you will be using (probably the $6e)

If you are tuning in open loop, when you datalog you will not see represenative numbers of the wideband o2 unless you have a wideband that can be setup and programmed to work with the datalogging software to give out voltages between 0-1V (lc-1 and lm-1). I am not as familiar with GM ecms and tuner pro as much so I do not know if there are any patches or programs that will allow datalogging if the unit you are using does indeed have a 0-1v output and a 0-5v output. I did see they are working on a patch, but I'm not sure if it was ever finished.

The best you can do is take note of what rpm and kPa (vacuum) you are at when the condition occurs that you would like to change. For instance, while driving and you see a lean condition on the wideband display, take note of what rpm you are at, and your vacuum reading. go to your ve table, find that cell and add fuel as necessary. once added in that cell, smooth the surrounding cells, and drive it again. It is hit or miss tuning but I plan on doing it that way as well. And about what you were asking about being a pain to do each rpm and kpa.......it actually isnt too bad. If you have a good basemap tune that is relatively close to the setup you have, then you should be decnt from the get go. If it seems like everything is too lean for your setup, simply highlight the entire ve table and add 5% more fuel, and keep adding fuel until the afrs all around are semi-close. Then once they are semi-close througout the rpm band, start fine tuning from there.

OR you could get a scanner or a datalogging cable such as the aldl from moates and you can datalog while in closed loop. It will give you afr readings but they will be in "blm's". 128 blm is the ideal 14.7 stoich afr, and anything above or under 128, is rich or lean. You adjust accordingly until you get 128 across the board. This method uses the stock narrowband sensor, and narrowbannds are terrible and I dont prefer them.

problem with the above method is, in the past, pleople have tuned everything to 128 which is supposed to be ideal, but then they used a wideband later to measure it, and they were WAY lean.

 

There are different ways, but many people set the "closed loop enable temperature" table in the code to a temp that is higher than you'll ever see.

As far as the method, many people use a datalogger that also hooks into the WBO2 output and logs that along with everything else.

Open loop tuning does take longer, but pays off in the long run.

edit: oops posted at same time. The post above me is more complete.

 

thanks, i think i have notes on the temp inable and max it out to stay open loop,, BUT i thought i had notes on other things to change ???? in the bin ? - ill do some searching at home. --- and on that note of vehs running lean after setting blm to 128 , mine was that way, and had to raise my 02 lean/mean/rich, settings alot higher in bin,,, ---p.s. i use tuner pro, along with winald for tuning

 

yes here is my notes i had on settting bin for open loop.--Set min and max [BLM],,, to 128.-- also set [int] min and max to 128, - and disable[ P.E.] by max tps inable. AND DISCONNECT battery feed to ecm for 10 sec . ---I guess it all sounds correct, but no P.E, ?? IS THIS RIGHT ?? --- whats do you say guys ?

 

When you first tune, you will want to set pe high enough that it won't enable. You need to get you main ve tables correct before you go into tuning pe. Reasons for this are that pe will add fuel based on what it last saw before entering into pe. Meaning, if you are crazy rich right before you go into pe, then once you hit pe, it will just stay really rich or get even more rich. Especially in open loop in which, when pe is enabled, it will take the richest value it can use.

Some people don't even use pe at all. It's all in your choice, but if you want to use it, be sure to get in main ve in check before you enable it. Search the stickies about pe.........there are good posts on there about it and the differences between using it in open loop compared to closed loop

 

one more question. -So in my bin i also see O/L A.F.R vs TEMP. --- This is a temp and fuel afr chart. do i leave it alone ?.. or even it out, ? ---i know i adjust my main ve table, but wasnt sure on this one and when it comes into play

 

Carl, that table is what the engine runs off until the coolant temps raise sufficiently to flip to closed loop. My WB pretty much reads what the tables show on cold start in morning. Once coolant hits 160F and I am CL I see the WB read 1.00 lambda give or take.

 

IMO that's one of the most important tables for Open Loop tuning.

Think of this table as what makes adjustments to your VE table based on coolant temperature changes.

This one takes some time to get right because you generally only have one true "cold start" per day, so it might take 3 days or so to get exactly where you want it.

Ideally you want zero fueling correction commanded by this table once you reach your normal operating temperature - whatever that may be.

If you have a 160*F thermostat and that's where you normally run at, then your (AFR vs TEMP) correction should be almost nothing by 140*F and zero by 160*F.

Below 100*F the enrichment will need to increase pretty steeply, and even more so when you get under 40*F.

Follow the factory's lead for the colder sections, but keep in mind that the factory was richer than necessary, so you can get away with less.

As long as you're idling well at the lower temps after startup you're fine.
The factory often commands 11:1 AFR for temps below freezing, but most engines are fine with 12.5:1 AFR until you are down in single digit temps.

Once your AFRs are where you want them through the whole cold-start cycle the correction factors should be close enough to work well when applied to other load ranges of the VE.

 

Thanks, 305. i needed that info.--

 

yea, on thos settings to have it 0 out at full temp.---Am i in the right table, ?? - as my stock bin has it about 13.00 at full temp.---just wanna get it right. --also there is the table TIMEOUT AFR vs COOLANT [CHOKE] [SUB FROM AFR] -----------If i have it right 305 you were refering to the last table i mentioned ??????

 

Quote: If you are tuning in open loop, when you datalog you will not see represenative numbers of the wideband o2 unless you have a wideband that can be setup and programmed to work with the datalogging software to give out voltages between 0-1V (lc-1 and lm-1). I am not as familiar with GM ecms and tuner pro as much so I do not know if there are any patches or programs that will allow datalogging if the unit you are using does indeed have a 0-1v output and a 0-5v output. I did see they are working on a patch, but I'm not sure if it was ever finished.

Maybe someone can clarify how a WB can be used as feedback to command an air/fuel ratio outside of stoich. I understand it can be used as an alternative to NB feedback but that will just create a A/F around stoich but not be helpfull for AE and PE.

Analog Out 1 from the LM-1 is used to simualte NBO2. To do so set the default settings to 1.099v=14.08 and 0.103v=15.02. This is on Innovate Forum. Does that mean the WB will then move the A/F over that range quickly so as to average 14.7? I will assume so.

The LM1 uses voltage 1 V=10AFR and 2V=20AFR to display AFR.

I use heated NB for tuning BLM only. I will be patching in the AFR in my datalogs within WhatsUp/EBL from the WB controller for reference only. I also have dataloging capability within LM1 logs using their software. I therefore can compare events in both WU and WB logs by witnessing the change in TPS% that shows in both logs.

I would think manually adjusting VE tables after evaluating WB logs would be tedious.

 

yes, on thos O/L AFR vs temp table,---if i have it O.00 fuel added at full temp, what then about the choke table [time out vs temp] ??? leave it alone ????

 

bump

 

Carl, to the best of my recollection the only change I made in choke tables was to enrichen say 5%. That table is an adder. Having a WB I could see it was lean. The cranking AFR I did not touch. The "time out" for choke I did not touch. At 40F cold first start it is almost perfect. It took a while to dial that in as there are a few variables. As I stated earlier I also enrichened the OL/coolant temp/AFR tables. On cold start I see no filty rich fuems out ext pipe. Just clean exhaust and burn off of moisture.

As I may have stated in another post my gas mileage running OL was poor. It was costly to run OL. I believe I did so trying to cover up other issues that I failed to address in my tune. Bandaid approach by me. OL running is said to be a good idea to rough in a new tune however. What is your motivation to run OL?

 

thanks ronny. --reason for wanting to run open loop is ,, ive been two years now learning and tuning to get the bugs out, and after trying and trying and getting no where is terrable.------ALso wanted to see how car responded to open loop running,, with my mods, Also i have no smog equip, or cat conv.--------The bug im refering to is, idle surge,--off gas surge,,-- and lean plug readings, and hard to get the fueling even down to 14.9 AFR. -- Orig i learned to raise my 02 rich/mean/lean tables higher and that got the afr from 18.0 down to 14.9.-Right after doing so car was great, but after driving and ecm learning,, i loose alot of the power.---example is if i reload the bin,- power seems to be back untill you drive a for a day,, then it starts loosing its pep again.---P.S.,-When i started this tuning stuff i was a [newbie] ..--Started out from scratch with closed loop fueling. -------- Thank you guys for your help

 

Carl,

If you start car on cold engine do you see enrichened AFR on WB during idle?

And do you see a gradual progression of enleanment as the coolant come up on temp during idle?

And do you see the surge occurring then? Or is the surge just on a fully heatsoaked plenum?

During datalog of idle is the SA changing? Same for msec for injector pulsewidth? Same for duty cycle? Are you idling synch or asynch?

Is the visual injector spray conical as it should be?

Possible vac leak at the intake top plate?

 

yea ron,, the surge is at full temp and/ closed loop.-And is there on accelleration in park,, and while driving on decell.----as for the fueling asynch or synch,, i guess i need more tuning school as im at a ??? on how to see or check that. -- injector spray is good,, S/A IS EVEN and smoothed. ---AND i plan on replacing that upper gasket this spring when i get car back out.,, but seems ok,? as of this fall.

 

As far as synch, it goes to that mode when the pulse width gets too low. It is attemting something(AFR) that may not be possible. If I understand correctly one injector pulses every DRP distributor reference pulse. I dont recall what size injectors you use but that asynch happens as a result of too much fuel, too large an injector. So instead of every pulse it may fire injector every other. Not sure it that totally correct. that causes the surge in some cases(once me). So synch locks out the asynch and it does not occur. That may cause an overly rich AFR at idle but smooth. that is not a bad thing unless emishions are compromised. You and I have none. I think it is a switch in TP to set. Then you lose asynch also in PE however.

 

Thanks ron,,, I now remember i fooled with that asynch ? this past summmer by turning it off,[ i hope ] will have to check notes.---ALSO it looks like i should post here when i put car back on road doesnt it ??? p.s., on thos injector specs... I CURRENTLY HAVE MY FUEL PRESSURE AT 18 p.s.i. and injector pulse width set at 112 ? [if i remember correctly ] AND thos are stock 1982 injectors. --Theres alot of debate of what thos stock ones flowed at but i based my calcutions off that they were 61 lb injectors.