The table and constant I mentioned are from a $D0A mask. It may not be the same as your mask but usually there is something that deals with AFR v Coolant and an AFR bias value. I mention because your symptoms sound very similar to what I dealt with.

OK i think i found something very similar to what you are talking about. the table is O2 offset v coolant temp. according to the description in the xdf it subtracts from the O2 constant tables at a given temp. thats the only thing i can find.

so now im finding a new problem, actually more of an old problem that plagued my tuning in OL. since the temps have fallen this past weekend due to a cold front, the morning drive is alot cooler than the afternoon drive. when the air temps are cooler the damn thing starts to lean out again, even in CL. afternoon is fine. i scrubbed all the items in the xdf and cant find another offset table base on air temp for CL. not like it matters because my IAT circuit in the ecm is likely dead, and im too broke right now to dig up another 7730 in the boneyard. i guess ill save up and buy another one asap to see if this problem goes away.

also, the other problem im having that i just found out yesterday, is when im shifting at higher rpms its leaning out really bad. i spent like 10 min in 4th gear, engine rpms at 3500 ish, load at ~40 kpa, and the afr was at 16:1. i was waiting for the blm to adjust, was staying at 118. when im cruising at 2300ish rpms at 40 kpa my afr hangs around 14.7.

whats going on here and why wont it adjust?

Thanks!

That's the point of open loop. It won't adjust. OL is for tuning via WB. But without CL feedback it will not adjust for temp and weather changes...

i understand that, OL will use the IAT values for changing temperatures.

since the IAT circuit is inoperable it wont adjust for air temp changes in OL or CL.

the only time im using OL is for idle, otherwise im in closed loop all the time.

so....

also, the other problem im having (in closed loop) that i just found out yesterday, is when im shifting at higher rpms its leaning out really bad. i spent like 10 min in 4th gear, engine rpms at 3500 ish, load at ~40 kpa, and the afr was at 16:1. i was waiting for the blm to adjust, was staying at 118. when im cruising at 2300ish rpms at 40 kpa my afr hangs around 14.7.

Note the comment even in CL. As stated to be expected in OL.

Sounds like CL as OL I believe the BLM goes to 128 and sits there.

Maybe OP will clarify.

WB is sensitive to a good ground

I wonder if the NB02 sensor is defective? are you getting cross counts? Is it showing a swing in logs?

WB is spot on as long as the ground is good. I presume no highway mode available to explain 16/1. In HW mode I am at or leaner than 16/1.

in open loop, INT will lock to 128, preventing BLM from moving. meaning if BLM was at something other than 128 when going into open loop, it will stay there.

NB02 cooling off at speed ?

If it fell out of CL and the VE table #2 had insufficient values it could go lean?

im still getting cross counts when this is all happening. heres the logs from the drive home today.

thanks fellas

First file appears to be at idle 33 MAP 116 or so BLM cross counts occurring and 14.7 on WB. Looks like the VE table needs a tweek. IAC counts a bit high.

#3 appears at speed of 75 MPH BLM 131 or so I see WB picking uo some lean spokes to 19/1 but that may be normal. crosscounts appearing.

Seems all is as expected.

maybe someone else can see something?

do you have EGR? If not is it turned off in .bin?

the first file is ~2400 rpm, maybe the file is corrupted? i just downloaded it on the work computer and its fine here. the 2400 at 44kpa is normal, used for the comparison.

the next one is the one thats showing lean, NBo2 volts show high while WBO2 shows lean. not sure why or which one has the discrepancy. Ill believe the WBO2 over the NB because i can feel the power fall right off when it shows it that lean.

EGR, CCP, AIR have been disabled as well. i also confirmed it in the datalog.

starter solenoid went kaputski this morning so i wasnt able to get a cool morning log. stupid ford solenoid. anyway.....


i think im just going to use the simulated NB output from the WB controller. once im able to get a replacement 7730 and another NBO2 sensor ill try it again. wish there was a way to just use the WB directly since its already an input, then keep the NBO2 as a backup in case the WB goes kaput.

You are right on #1 I read commanded idle speed. My error

#1 shows BLM 125-130 ... CL ....02 650-700 or so ... rpm 2100 ...speed 79 ... WB 14.7

What is the second column labeled WB-0 showing 21-22 A/F ???

#2 shows BLM 124-128...CL....02 600 range...,.RPM 3400.....speed 79....

WB 14.9 goes to 16/1 and then 14 .2 which is the issue I presume.

I looked at BLM and it is moving and BLM fine(INT) is moving as well.

02 seems to be moving as expected.

There is a calibration for WB to slow down or average the reporting. My controller shows more activity on A/F changes than does my pillar gauge(DB). Piller tends to have an averaged response. It moved .10 AF every 3 secs or so compared to controller moving .10 every half sec. But you report a SOP on the A/F changes in drivability. With my Hy Way(enlean) mode active I can feel the enleanment as I verify with a glance of pillar g.

It does not cost much for a new NB02? I would use a Delco brand for sure.

ill get another datalog with less fluctuation of the throttle. the afrs just hang in the 15's and 16's, and the blm shows its still pulling fuel. im on my second NBO2, first one was an NTK and this one is a bosch. ill have to buy another one when funds permit. for now im going to use the simulated O2 from the WB.

OK i think im starting to get this figured out. last weekend i used my sim NBO2 instead of the factory HEGO. didnt drive the car all week until today. on the long stretch of highway going to work it started to fall out of closed loop. so Ronny i think you are right, the O2 is cooling off, even though its heated. when i accelerate slightly it goes back into closed loop. also, since im using the sim O2 it doesnt lean out at light loads/higher rpms. which also points to the O2 cooling off too much. the car has MAC 1 5/8" shorties and 2.5" straight thru exhaust. no cats. the collector isnt even a real collector, its the ball and socket, so that could be contributing to the problem as well.

on to possible solutions....

wrapping the headers and around the O2's

anybody have ideas? im not planning on ever installing the cats again either lol

thanks

How about Jet Hot coating the shorties?

34blazer, I get the feeling that the calibration you are using is foobar.

An heated O2 sensor should never be cooling off so much that the ECM drops out of closed loop (unless you are driving through a river). Then the lack of INT updates and all of the other issues you have listed. Something isn't correct in the ECM.

RBob.

@DS, if they were equal length shorties i might consider it in the future. these are stainless OTS that i bought from a local for 80 bucks a few years back. nothing special lol



Bob, ive been thinking the same thing for almost a year now. i wasnt sure if it was lack of know how on my part so ive stuck with it.

so what would you think a possible solution could be? it sucks because ive been wanting one of your P4 EBLs for awhile now but everytime i manage to save a few bucks, something comes up. i was also hoping to have another car too for my next leg of training coming up in NM. i hate to keep DD'ing this car. is there another mask/bin/adx combo out there that can log the WBO2?

Maybe re-install a set of stock manifolds. Shorties really not worth anything IMO.

this car came with factory headers, after i ported the heads i needed larger primaries. so i bought the MAC shorties, it was a big difference on the butt dyno

RBob, how would i add this value into the datastream?


got some big problems figured out this weekend. i was having problems with the ECM falling out of CL. since i started using the SIM NB it responds faster than the factory NB, and i tightened up the O2 tables since im not running cats. so that caused the O2 values to not cross the qualifiers, narrowed those up 100mV on each end and no more problems.

also, the guys on Eaglemark's forum helped me figure out why my IAT wasnt working properly. I made some time this weekend(which my wife wasnt happy about lol) and started tracing the wiring for the IAT circuit. come to find out that during the initial wiring i crossed up the 5V leads with the TPS circuit. i was feeling pretty dumb after i figured out that mistake LOL. i runs better now, but theres some stalling and surging after i push in the clutch. going to work that out but overall im happy everything works like it should.

Pick a location/value that you don't need, such as the start up coolant temperature. In the TP hex editor over write the current RAM address of $60 with $6B. Then change the TP ADX file for that byte. No conversion is required so make it N * 1 (or however it should be), along with the name for that data stream byte.

Note that the ALDL stream address for that byte in the BIN is $8DE

RBob.

OK i think i got it. have it on the dash and at idle its sitting at 8 gm/sec. when i do a light rev it hits in the 60's. seem right?

Yes, that does sound correct.

RBob.

awesome!

rich median lean window.

Yes but I would try 20 first and see what happens. Do you have a WB to see trends?

now theres ~20mV separation between rich/lean. works pretty good, and yes, i have the SLC PP2 WBO2.

since i fixed the IAT circuit it stalls everytime i push in the clutch when warm. it sucks since i just got it to quit doing that lol.

Some truck calibrations are 0mv difference between high/mid/low in the Stock calibration. My Van actually loved late 90s Corvette 02 calibrations that were in the 630 mv range, as opposed to the stock 385-440 mv range of a TBI 350.

Shorties are 10x better than manifolds.

Fast,

I'm thinking the stock manifolds on my 84 Xfire were pretty close to being shorties. Other manifolds may vary. My take is if you're doing "headers", do the long tubes.