My girlfriend is getting an engine built for her trans am. Shes going from stock 350tpi and chip to a...

355ci with maf TPI
1.6 Roller Rockers
Comp Cams 12-404-4
1.9" intake and 1.6" exhaust valves ( I think)
9.5:1 compression.

Now obviously bigger injectors and a tune will be required. We want to do it ourselves and get into DIY prom tuning.

Now it is my understanding that, you can use an ostrich as a permanet chip and make changes whenever your heart desires. But it doesnt IMPROVE anything, and you have to supply your own means of data logging. (In which we have a USB to ALDL cable.) Which however will be really slow?

So an ostrich can only be used to change values instantly.
With EBL its to my understanding that you must switch to MAP, (which is really easy) But after you make the big initial changes to the bin, it will learn the tuning itself, and smooth it out?

I need more clarification on what the EBL does and if its best for a first timer. This car will be a daily driver so good street manners are important.

And the EBL has the same functions as the ostrich correct? (no chip swapping)

 

The Ebl and Ostrich would both work but IMO I'm not a big fan of the older maf ecu's with the slow baad rate of 160, its sucks. You would need to upload bins though a usb with both and need a laptop to datalog with both.

The Ebl does not self tune but has a program that you datalog in and shows you where to change you VE tables and by how much (easy to use).

I really like that SD ecu's much better that the maf's but my mods are way more then some small bolton's and the higher speed datastream was important for me, you could always just repin to a 7730 and make it SD.

But if you really want the most support for a biginner then I would say go with the EBL, since so many people here and have helped some many others out that you cant go wrong.

And no the EBL from what I understand has way more features then the Ostrich which will only let you use the bins on the net or you old one from your prom that you will have to mod yourself , I dont have an EBL but from what I read its awesome.

 

The EBL does technically self tune. It makes the changes and then you flash in the new tune that has the changes to the VE table. It "learns" another words. Also, the EBL comes with a selection of bins to use. But only one for tpi.

 

Teh: Have you read up on website? dynamicefi.com

apples and oranges

EBL is an ECU as well as a datalogging "system"

Ostrich is an emulator. It can be used permanently if you wish. Not sure is the ECU can be placed back into position under dash? Portable can be moved vehicle to vehicle. I think Moates website has more info.

Also see auto prom at moates.

Tuning on the fly is overrated in my opinion. I dont see the practicality. Does anyone here tune on the fly or at idle?

 

I actually just spend some time reading the introduction to tuning part 1 and 2. and im pretty sure im sold on EBL, it seems to come with alot of documentation to help a newcomer and it seems alot more practical

Not to mention that Rbob is a very active member if support is needed.

 

Yes we call him Sweetness. His nickname is Robby the Robot(never sleeps).

 

Yup! Idle is a biggy! So sweet to get dialed in after warmup.

When you start a new conversion or built motor tuning live is so fast to get in the ballpark.

My son is now a very good tuner/driver now while I push buttons and tell him 10%, 20%, 30% etc... !

On the fly make the major changes to get in the ballpark. Then when BLM are all in range I go back to spreadsheet, then some manual smoothing of tables and datalog as usual.

Timing to while watching the knock sensor.

But if you only have or do one car it makes the first tune or first couple so fast. Then it's usually by logs. But doing new motor builds or conversions I can get in the ballpark within an hour with driver. Think about how much time and how many burns it takes to get there?

This also all falls back to RBob as king of GM ECM pioneers, all he has learned and shared has made this possible so Kudos to the RBot!
All the work he and others have done has brought great joy into my life. Can you imagine a world where you couldn't tune your EFI? Or the tech was not developed so TunerPro was not possible? Just the thought is horrible nightmares!

But if I only did one car? EBL! With a built motor? EBL! New to tuning? EBL!

 

It turns what used to take days into a short afternoon. I can have a driver drive around town and while doing so I can almost completly dial in the ve tables by lunch.

Previously it was log, tune, log, tune, log, think about a new car...

-- Joe

 

The old fashion way, EBL has an auto VE learn which works rather well. Just drive around and a new calibration is created. Pull over, check the corrections and flash it in. It really is quick.

RBob.

 

Right, that's even more fantastic (except for dialing in AE I'd imagine), but I meant the old way of logging, exporting to a spreadsheet, going over it, adjusting, burning a prom, go for another drive, etc.

I keep forgetting, with the EBL you must key-off to reflash right? You can't make running adjustments?

I don't really do anything with closed loop anymore. I rough it in to wideband, and to do that I need to add or subtract fuel while watching it.

If the VE learn could take in a wideband input and target AFR that would make life amazingly simple.

-- Joe

 

> I keep forgetting, with the EBL you must key-off to reflash right?
> You can't make running adjustments?

Not a key-off, need to have the EBL ECM powered up. If a CALPAK is in place it will go into limp mode. Then returns to running off the calibration once the flash has completed (3 - 5 seconds).

If no CALPAK the engine just shuts off the same as a key-off. Then just turn the key to restart.

> If the VE learn could take in a wideband input and target
> AFR that would make life amazingly simple.

It does. Can use either the long term fuel trims (BLM mode) or a WB input for the VE Learns.

Generally it is best to start with the BLM learn mode. This allows the ECM to correct the fueling on the fly (closed loop!) and makes the vehicle more drive-able. Then once close enough to run in open loop use the WB mode for the VE Learns.

RBob.

 

The problem I've had, mainly with $8D and $58, no matter how much you play with the 02 calibration, if the cam is big enough, you just can't get the NB to report anything close to a reasonable BLM for tuning purposes.

Current cam is 288* on 110lsa..

-- Joe

 

Is this at .050" or just on the ramp?

RBob.

 

I leave the Ostrich in my car as a "permanent" install. I like it this way, because even if I'm not tuning real time (Which I do BTW), then after setting up a new bin, I just plug the USB cable into my laptop, upload the new bin and done. No removing the ECM to swap EEPROMs. There is the alternative of a Socket Extender, that I have installed in a friend's car, that works well.

 

That is at .006", at .050" it's 236/242. This is on 412 cubic inches. Idles around 10hg.

-- Joe

 

I really dont worry to much about idle, after about 1500rpm the WB seem to read just fine and I adjust my VE tables accordingly, I just use the idle O2 constant so it thinks its at stoich, $8D.

 

What I've found with a big cam, lots of overlap, etc on EFI (specifically speed density) is that it will report a blm of 108 at xx kpa and xxxx rpm, and at that same kpa and rpm will also report 150 blm.. Int is all over the place. It's impossible to tune with the narrowband.

With the wideband, I can dial in a ve table that is 'around' 14ish afr for like a 70 degree day. When it's colder or warmer it might be off a little, but it's close enough to drive (like a carb), and if you have a calibration with MAT corrections you could re-tune it and put an IAT in front of the throttle body to richen when it's colder and lean out a hair when it's warmer.

I've had no problem with 230* cams (@ .050) on a 112lsa which work great on 9:1 motors, but if you're trying to run 10.5, 11:1 on pump gas you need a lot of overlap. Plus with a bigger displacement engine like my 412, if you want it to see above 6,000 RPM you needs lots more duration than you would run in say a 350. A 224 degree cam will pull to 6200 in a 350, my combo stops making power after around 5900. +/- 100 rpm..

To the OP: Just get an EBL. Buy the time you buy an emulator, an aldl adapter, cables, find software that doesn't crash, you'll be within $100 of just getting an EBL that works out of the box. If I didn't own everything including a dozen tunercat licenses, 730 memcals, datamaster, etc - I'd be running an EBL too..

Too bad Dynamic Efi doesn't do emulator/aldl adapter trade ins!

-- Joe

 

I had the Moates APU1 (not osterich) but as mentioned, need ALDL, more cables, etc...

I got my EBL and it does everything and then some.... 1 wire to USB laptop...

I'm very happy with it and it's support.

Rafael

 

Yep. Like I said, I'd buy an EBL if I could sell all my other crap...

-- Joe

 

With the wideband, I can dial in a ve table that is 'around' 14ish afr for like a 70 degree day. When it's colder or warmer it might be off a little, but it's close enough to drive (like a carb), and if you have a calibration with MAT corrections you could re-tune it and put an IAT in front of the throttle body to richen when it's colder and lean out a hair when it's warmer.

I've had no problem with 230* cams (@ .050) on a 112lsa which work great on 9:1 motors, but if you're trying to run 10.5, 11:1 on pump gas you need a lot of overlap. Plus with a bigger displacement engine like my 412, if you want it to see above 6,000 RPM you needs lots more duration than you would run in say a 350. A 224 degree cam will pull to 6200 in a 350, my combo stops making power after around 5900. +/- 100 rpm..


I have to admit that I have never tried to tune a $8d car with a lsa of 108-110 before but I have seen guys do 108lsa in open loop, thats just not my style, I dont like becoming a sensor myself where if need to be the feed back to adjust the tables all the time. I like using the PID for closed loop thats why I try not to go below 112 lsa, also at that piont if I was trying to do 10.50's with the GTA N/A I dont think I would care to much about closed loop.

The thing I dont understand is if your WB can read the stoich for your fuel then why shouldn't the NB, yes I know it can only read just above stoich and just below stoich and thats a very small window, but it does do it. Maybe your EGT's (temp) is cooling or overheating the NB, also when you say that you see a given kpa&rpm but totally different blm's what does your WB read? Sorry for all the questions but I just want to learn incase I ever want to go with more lsa and lift.

-George

 

I know this is an old post but I am very glad to have come across it. I am just about ready to buy myself the EBL system and what a coincident it is that the person I have been emailing is on this very post...RBob.


I have spent the last two days debating on the choices I have for ecu tuning and it appears that many of you have been very happy with EBL Flash Tune for TPIs.


Can I get some new updates please? I would like to see if new personal developments or options have generated with the use of EBL Flash so I can become better equipped with them. I have never tuned anything before so my plan is to learn how to tune with my already running 350 TPI engine before putting in the 406.


Thanks again!

 

Just put the 406 in, the EBL is so user friendly you simply tell it the size of the engine and injectors ahead of time, and it will adjust the VE accordingly, and will then fine tune the VE all by itself during the VE learning process. No reason to keep the 350 in there, yank that sucker outta there...

By the way... welcome aboard,

- Rob

 

Sounds good, I will be emailing you soon. Thanks!

 

Ordered! Let the fun begin

 

If it were me I would go ebl, I'm not a fan of the 165 maf, the clam problem being the hardest to deal with the ecu, I've had some that would stay connected for up to 20min but most of them only last a few minutes, max maybe 10min, that's a real pain, now if you had the 7730 sd car and you have a good amount of free time on your hands the the ostrich become a close runner up to an EBL, but don't under estimate the time it will take to read up on it and actually get it running right, I think I really had no idea what I was doing for about two years before it all started to click, so having some to talk to for support is a big plus.

 

Thanks for the response gp90gta. I have read here about MAF issues but Rob believes that I just happened to have a very good unit since it has 174,000 miles on it. No kidding either. However, the review on the EBL Flash has convinced me to give it a go, and I did this evening. Glad I came across this board.

 

You'll really like it!

It also comes with the best customer support I have ever experienced (RBob).

What I like is how useful and easy it is to use. You can set up a VE learn and data log while you are driving in to work. Then, you can look over the BIN at lunch- and then flash it in just before you drive home.

It has been incredibly rewarding to learn about how all of it works- and be able to tune exactly for what your combination needs as you go along and upgrade things.. Raise idle? Sure- no problem. Switch banks and run another BIN? Absolutely.

 

Awesome! Thank you. The EBL has been shipped on the same day it was ordered. Looks like some time next week I will be tuning my IROC's 350 without the MAF.

 

You'll have to move a few terminals around and then put a MAP sensor in.

FWIW- If you don't have one yet... a 'GM Delphi Weatherpack Crimper Tool' helps out a lot. The typical crimper from a parts store won't make tight enough crimps to slip inside the GM connectors. They run about $33-35 on Amazon.


That tool made the change from GM Crossfire card reader connectors to late-model 24 & 32 terminals a breeze. I had to cut, crimp, and pin.

If nothing else... if you decide to add to your harness or have to replace pigtails, you'd have the tool to do it.


Have fun!

 

you can get the crimper plus the terminals from Waytek for a really decent price. It also helps to download and research the Delphi catalog that has all the different terminal and connector types.

 

You can also buy a premade MAP plug from most parts stores for cheap. I ordered the MAP and plug with 6" harness from O'Reilly Auto Parts for $63.00 total. All new stuff.