NOTE!! It appears, with firebats help that the internal circuit breaker can still be used, one of us should have the final result done soon, it's just too cold for me to do anything like wiring right now lol.

I know that the title of the thread sounds like a gimmick, I'm just looking to get alot of people to read this because I would rather share my discovery rather than keep it to myself.

So... I know how to get window motors, at least 2 times faster. And I will prove it. I recieved some motors off e-bay and I was going to do the mod for the thermal circut breaker thingy, and then the relays later in the spring. I took apart my old motor and lost a brush, that's why I needed a new motor, i bought a pair.

Anywho. After wrestling with the damn bushings and trying to get it back int their housings and slide the assembly into the actual motor case, I just couldn't figure it out. So I used the one i had apart and left off the back so i could get everything back in there and then I would either rivit or use bolts to secure the case halves.

Here is where I struck gold. Upon testing the unit, via the terminals on the outside, i wasn't get great connections and the motor wouldn't run, I common reason for failure, corroded terminals that the wiring connector attach to.

So I bypassed everthing, hooked wires (for testing purposes) with aligator clips on the ends to the brush metal housings rather than the external terminals. and then one to positve battery, the other to negative of course.

Then magic happened. They ran really fast, faster than if i connected power to the external terminals. So........


What I need to do is drill two small holes on the case for each brush housing. Soder the wires to the housings and feel then through the case, rebolt case back together and presto. Faster than stock, faster than new, faster than aftermarket for third gens. Guarenteed.


If you think of the electrical aspect, I'm reducing resistances in the circuit. Less resistance, faster motor. no need for heavy wires, increased voltage or anything of that nature.

However for testing purposes, I used a electric drill battrey of 14.4 volts. not 12.6volts.

If anyone really wants to see proof and a full step by step, say so. Make it worth my time lol. P.S. I'm a mechanic if that means anything. prob not

 

i would like to see how fast they move our heavy windows. do u possibly have a video of it in action?

 

I'm having a hard time understanding what you bypassed(need pics, never opened up a window motor). Did you bypass really small wires that go from the bushing to the outside connector? Or is the connector a poor design that just has too much resistance? I'm just trying to figure out where you get rid of the resistance and if it would be worth it to do this on a new motor.


I'd be happy with 1.1x faster, 2x faster would be awesome. Take some pics of what has to be done. I'd like to try this on my new motors I just installled.

 

I guess I'll never win any awards at describing stuff when excited lol.

I'll try to make this simple as most people don't know what's inside.

Picture a shaft with two square blocks riding on either side

like this...

[||]

these [] brackets represent the bushings riding on the armature or shaft that turns the gears that move the motor gear, thus the window goes up or down.

these square blocks act on the shaft by a spring that is enclosed in a square metal case. the end cap of the motor has the brushes, and the strips that connect power to the brushes themselves.

I connected power direct to the cases and never used the outside metal contacts that your wiring connector connects to.

Damn I'm gonna have to go in my shed and get some videos. You guys better appreciate this because it's Cold. I'm form the Rock, newfoundland.

Back in 30 mins

 

I for one would be very appreciative .

Mike

 

pic 1 is a brush

pic 2 end cap where brushes are held (inside square boxes)

videos aren't the greatest but you can hear the RPM difference between the modified and stock one

 

I should have made a few notes.

1)I don't have a clue how to get the cap back on without taking the whole thing apart, brushes fall out.

2) Video 2 has only half the case on, you would after soldering the wires have to put in back on with nuts and bolts or rivits. I perfer bolts.

3) I never cleaned anthing yet, I'll be using white grease rather than bulk grease so things can turn easily.

4) What does this mod do? connect power directly to the brushes rather than through the motor strips. ( see end cap pic)

Thanks for looking!

 

http://www.cbc.ca/22minutes/22_singl...nov_28/apology
This is good.

 

I hear a huge difference between the 2. This could be a breakthrough for thirdgens, 4th gens also - they have about the same window motor. I gotta try it myself now

 

It's too bad my car is buried in a fluffy white blanket, if it wasn't I would be out there trying this out. I'm going to research some and see if there is a way to safely increase the inpt voltage to 15 volts. Maybe if i had the pw circuit running off a 15 volt battery, then i would need to figure out how to safely charge it with the cars alt.

 

Ok, got one apart. I'm trying to figure out why they would be faster by bypassing stuff. You're bypassing the springs and the metal that goes to the outside connector.

Those springs are really tiny, they are like 24-26 gauge wire, and that small of wire isn't going to carry the huge amount of electrical current that the motors need very well. Its like trying to run amps and subs off of wire thats the size of a human hair, thats exaggerated a little.

Then the springs are just touching the metal bushings and the metal connector part, not soldered, and very small areas of contact.

I wonder if just bypassing only the springs would be effective. Meaning have a big wire soldered(or alligator cliped) from the metal bushing to the metal part(the connector part). And keep the connector and internal stuff. Think you could try that and see if its still as fast? I could probably try it too.

 

well that's actually whay I did, I didn't just connect to the spring, it's the metal housing that needs a wire soldered on, current will flow throw the housing and into the bushings, not just the springs.

When used aligator clips I indeed clipped the housing and some wire, but when i did it on my own without the videos I just touched wires on the metal housing.

Same speed, current will follow path of least resistance.

more current flows through the metal housing if wire is soldered on it.


glad you are thinking Firebat lol.

 

Awesome, the internal circuit breaker, or whatever that is, can still be used then.

 

you are right about the internal circuit breaker, though it was a oversight on my behalf there is still current flowing throw it and you could either do the mod where you bypass it or keep it. Keeping it would cause no harm, still fast as hell lol.

Did you get it to work?

 

not yet, only got it apart, starting to solder

 

for anyone who wants to know if this really works before any soldering all you have to do is hook up your battery put the positive on one metal house and negative on the other and you get the result I did in the video just to clear things up. At least then you can test it out and see if it really works, which it will provided everythingis done correct.

Firebat you won't be dissapointed, one thing to remember when you drill holes in the case to run the wire out is that you need to waterproof it some how, maybe silicone that's hi-temp, last thing you want is water getting in that motor when done.

I think tomorrow I'll brave the elements tomorrow and finish mine. I'm looking forward to seeing yours in the car though lol.

 

well, got one problem. Can not solder to the metal bushings. I'm working on a solution though.

 

i think we have a miscommunication. hold on i draws something up lol

 

I wanna see the windows fly up like some ancient chinese death machine

 

solder on the side where the arrows point. sorry for my non artistic abilities

 

end result will be like the motor with two wires (in green) coming out of the case. Then you hook those wires to the vehicles wiring for pws.

hope this clears it up somewhat

 

Hold up a sec, did anyone else catch this? How is this relevant in any way to this post? lol.

 

 

There was a post some time ago, regarding upgrading the wiring related to the window motors, forgot where exactly the post was, or what it said, but it seemed like it helped a lot.

 

I believe you are referring to the relay mod. This method goes further than that and puts power to the internal motor as a direct hook up. The relay mod won't get them this fast alone because you are still plugging into the external contacts of the motor.

However in the end I'll be doing the relay mod along with this to minimize dropped voltage and try to connect direct to the battery as possible.

 

Gibson is from NFLD = Newfoundland, meaning he's a newfie!. How many beers ya after havin' buoy! Aye, where ya to newfie!

haha, j/k.
This mod looks great! I never really thought about it, but yea, if the electrical current has to flow through those wee little springs, that'd be a major restriction. I didn't think it did, but i'm willing to try this mod!

If it's hard to solder on to that copper part, make sure you clean it well with acetone, then heat it up with a torch, that'll make it easier. Then use a big soldering iron, and make sure to cover the wire with heat shrink, and maybe even some silicone. You can use copper anti-seize inbetween the copper/carbon brushes (not bushings! You guys were confusing the heck out of me!) and the copper shield to increase conductivity. Let us know how it works guys!

 

it's not buoy, it's by! lol

It's pretty bad it took a Newf to figure this out,

We do more than go to alberta to look for jobs you know lol

 

Really??? hahahahhahaha, so true, so true!

 

this sounds like a great mod, but not just for F bodies, this should work for any GM that has that type of window motor. i know im going to be doing this to my G body. thanks for sharing

i have an ideal just how much faster the windows will be. my drivers side motor had problems working in cold weather for years, i put a reman on last year & it was at least 3~4 times faster, from fully open to closed in about 5 seconds, but it didn't work like that for more than a few weeks, now it runs just as slow as it ever did, around 20~30 seconds depending on if the engine is running or not.
i wonder if there are brushes available that have the leads made into them instead of using the spring or brush housing for contact

 

Yes! I bought some carbon brushes meant for a Ford alternator I think. They were 2 pieces that sit side by side and would fit in place of our current ones. I just brought in one of my old worn stock brushes and asked them what would fit in place. They gave me some of these ones - which have the wire leads coming off them. I would have simply cut off the wires (before knowing this... ).

 

I just wanted to clear something up.

People think that curent flows only through the springs, wrong.

It flows also through the heavier metal brush housing in which the brush is in constant contact with.

The springs are only there for 2 reasons:

To make the connection of brush to armature (rotating shaft)

and two, compensate for brushing wear by applying a small force so that it rdes against the armature.


I am still amazed nobody thought of this earlier and bypassed the connectors in the end cap.

I just want one of you just post a video of them in the car. As stated before mine is hugged by white snow.

 

ok, this makes more sense now. I thought ALL current flowed through the springs, i was wrong. I'm going to try to run my wires through the plastic part on the bottom, not the metal housing.

I think this is 10 gauge wire. If you don't have this thick of wire laying around, you could always put three to four 14 gauge wires in place of the 10 gauge wire, it would produce the same effect.

 

Firebat

After seeing yours with the wires through the cap, I think I will do the same, very clean looking.

I want everyone to see something that I do, what do you think will flow more current or voltage refering to Firebat Pics?

the stock connector and small exterior terminals of the motor OR

from Firebat's pics that nice, large guage, no other connections, wire.?

Nicely done Sir, I'm proud!

 

Just thought of something.

IF some individual wanted the maximum output, and child safety wasn;t an issue, you could take out the brushes,

Soder wires on the ends, slide springs over the wire and feed the brush back into the case with the wire coming out of the other end of the brush housing and then through the plastic cap if you drill holes.

That's of you can get the wires to solder on.

That would be a 100% hookup from B+ (battery voltage) to the brush itself. Seamless and connection less between brush and battery.

Enjoy!


P.S Just for you guys at the low price of nothing,I will try to dig the drivers side out of the car that has a shed on that side as well, then after my wiring I'll try to post a video with the mod motor IN THE CAR

 

I got the window motor back together with the wires going through the bottom. In Video (test) 1, I have it connected to the connector. In video(test) 2, I have the wires soldered directly to the power window wires(no connectors).

NOTES: I went both directions several times in the videos (window up, window down). I didn't notice too much off of a difference between test 1 and test 2. I'm running off of the car battery that has about 11 volts and the battery has been sitting in the car all winter except for when i charge it. Maybe it would be more noticable at 14.4V(voltage when the car is running). This is also a brand new window motor. I didn't bypass the internal circuit breaker.


1:


2:

 

It takes about 5 seconds to go down, 6 seconds to go up. Window tracks were just greased today. Its probably it mostly being a new window motor. This is not with the car running, again about 11-12 volts. I dont know, its not super fast. I'll have to try it with the car running.

 

By the looks of everything, you got it wired great, I think it just may be a voltage problem, If i have to keep a 15 volt battry in my car to do it if it's still slow with the car running I will lol.

Nice progress firebat.

Just thoght of this, get somejumper cables and jump to that car next to it while it's running, use 2 sets if you have to. then run the motors.

 

i would be cautious of the higher amp flow burning out your brushes and armature.. and i know that when i got a new motor for my car it is twice as fast.. just because its new.. im sure if i did a stator test on my old motor it would be a turd haha

 

Eh maybe we are just screwed...
Back to manual windows I go!

Either that or I'll get some different motors and attempt to retrofit them.

Good ideas though, see how it works when the car is running.

 

The motors will only draw what they need, the fuse will trip if there is a excess of amperage draw such as a binding track.

I really don't think these will be any problem.

Fwiw. We got snowed in again. So no videos from me. Cmon Firebat, get that car running.!!

 

Has their been any progress on this turbo motor mentioned? And if this hasn't been mentioned yet, is this a mod that can be re-sold to the unelectrically inclined. (i'll admit i've not read through all of the "needs to be done" on this, but im trying to cover all bases here and throw some life back into this thread.)

 

You don't need to be a mechanic, engineer, or anything special to do this, it's cheap, well a free mod that everyone can use.

I don't think the popularity has grown yet since it's winter up here and alot of cars are either stored, parked or whatever.

These will work, and if there is a problem, there is a way to fix it.

 

I was thinking this thread over and I speculate that firebats windows may have went slow because of the lack of voltage,

Par exemple, If he had 11volts on battery alone, no charging, and ran a test, then it will drain the battery more, and since it isn't being charged by the alt at a voltage of aprox 13.6 volts, then it wouldn't work under normal operating conditions. Under normal amperage and voltage.

cmon spring, i wanna try this out lol

 

is the most recent video above the one with the "turbo" motor?? It doesn't seem to be going any faster than the power windows in my car and they are stock. If the windows go down slower than that in anyone else's car I feel sorry for you

 

I had the car running and there wasn't much difference.

I discovered a new problem, I have 4th gen wiring(because I swapped it in from my LT1 donor car). The 4th gen wiring harness has power going through the drivers side first to power the passenger side. Thats what I've been reading in the 4th gen forums but I'll have to look a schematic.

So, because I have this 4th gen power window wiring, this mod is pointless on the passenger side. I'll have to do the relay mod or maybe try it on the drivers side or both...

 

It seems like the weight of the window is coming into play again, aswith every other mod. The free speed with no load on the motor is fast but, with a load of a heavy window, it slows down.

However I am not giving up, maybe i'll do some researching and see if there is a way to up the voltage, I would need a voltage converter but it has to be adjustable.

I also wonder if I can modify the motor completely and use a different ratio of gears. (wishful thinkin here)

 

I think we need the ultimate proof with numbers.
Have any of you guys measured the voltage on the stock wires vs voltage on the new wires (directly from the brushes) with the motor running in the same direction?

I would be very interested in seeing some electrical facts (like: "there is a 3V drop on the springs" etc)

Lou

 

The "relay mod" is exactly what the factory has done with the Body Control Module and remote door modules. Power is routed to each door module via a 10 AWG conductor and only the relay logic power is switched by the window switches.

One problem you'll discover with a 20 year old window motor is that the "permanent" magnets aren't so permanent. Nothing you can do to the wiring will compensate for that.

 

I like where you are coming from guys, if people thing in design wisethen we should be able to formulate a way to correct the slow moving windows.

I am even thinking along the lines of the weight of the window itself. They are HEAVY, nobody can deny that, but then i was thinking of the regulator spring assembly. the whole design is basically a strong *** spring to help the windows up.

Now is we can do something about modding the amount of assist by the regulator itself we'd be on to something.

 

update?