Hey bro,take a look at they Camaro Performers summer 2004 issue. You'll see the suspension upgrade on a 4th gen. There list of mods includes: 3.42 gears, SLP cold air intake, transgo shift kit, precision vigilante converter, manual fan kit, hooker shorties, dynomax high flow cat, corsa exhaust, BMR susnpension (LCA's, panhard, springs etc), 160 thermo, and a holley airfoil (list of mods taken directly from the mag). Best 1/4 of 13.16. no trap speed listed and that was on Mickey Thompson ET streets. The LT1 is a great motor, but without changing heads, cam or forced induction/nitrous the motor is a low 13 high 12 car (<---on a good day). My friend Dave has an LT1 4th gen with heads, LT4 hot cam, throttle body, MAC headers, flowmaster exhaust, 3.73, BMR trac-pac with AGX shocks/struts, 2800 stall, Nitto drag radials, and a 150 shot and he runs 11.80's-11.90's on the gas. Off the gas the car was seeing 12.6's-12.7's and that's with heads and cam.

 

there are plenty of bolt on LT1 cars in the mid 12's. you shouldnt get all your info from magazines and actually get out there and check out some of the cars on the street or track.

i have a friend with a 95 formula A4 3.73s 3600 stall, long tube headers, cat back, with cutout, and little things, like CAI airfoil and so on, ran a best of 12.94@106, and thats just on DRs.

 

Thier not nearly as slow as the LS1 guys make them out to be, just ask the ones who see my bumper going by...

 

The LT1 is no slouch, but if you are waxing LS1's then your LT1 is not stock and the LS1's your beating probably are. Cuz, a bone stock LT1 is not going to outrun a bone stock LS1.
Is your LT1 engine stock?

 

Nope, and i've "waxed" an LS1 here in town that had headers and a 2700 stall, along with a dyno tune done locally, he dynoed 339 rwhp, I hit 300rwhp. Its all driver skill . My cousin doesn't count, he has a 00 Trans am and he runs 14.1, haha. I don't even count him.

I just have bolt ons and I don't have the cam installed yet. Too many people make the LS1 out to be a *** like engine. Besides, if you wanna go race me, don't use "You beat me because im stock", You wanted to go at it, take your loss. Im not claiming to be the fastest guy in town, no way I am, a guy with an LS1 here runs 11's, but I sure as hell ain't slow and I don't warrant spending 3k just to get an LS1 when I get spend $3k to get my lt1 into the 11's.

Also, don't forget, im in a much lighter vehicle than a bloated fourthgen. Mine weighed in at 3150 before the spohn torque arm and 1/2 tank of gas.

 

On a side note, im not bashing the precious LS1 engine. A lot of people on here know what thier talking about when it comes to the LS1 and know its not cheap to get one going as many people say it will be less mods, but their damn expensive for an ls1. Look at roller rockers, thier fricken 150 for LT1's, ls1's run in the 300+ range. Its ridiculous.

 

Where have you seen them for 300 ? I'd like to know, i havent seen a set that cheap....

 

I don't get all my info from mags BTW I build motors and cars for a living in a Hotrod shop here in florida when I'm not in class for Motorcycle Mechanics. So I think I have a little bit of knowledge when it comes to building go-fast toys. My point of using the mag article was to just show a comparison of mods and what ET's that were achieved. Your friend ran a best of 12.94 but you said those type of mods should be 12.7's correct??? "that car with stall gears DR's and exhaust is easy a 12.7ish car." But best of 12.94. I have nothing against LT1's, I think they are cheaper to buy, cheaper to build, and easier to swap. I was building an LT1 for my last car before it got totalled. I'm just saying that with the same mods on an LS1 it would be a high 11 car. 3.73's, 3400-3600 stall, drag radials, longtubes with offroad pipe and good exhaust system, CAI, etc see's low low 12's all day long here.
The only reason I prefer an LS1 to an LT1 is the optispark ignition system. I know it can be swapped out to a DIS setup and all but for the money after buying it and the LT1 your about the price of a used LS1 motor that already make more power and IMHO is more efficient. I got my LS1 for a deal that's why I picked it up. It wasn't my first plan (I was planning on a 383 stealth ram setup).

 

I agree here, mine weighs in a at hefty 3450 lbs!!

 

They were long tubes with the off road Y pipe, I think he had his cutout closed. Stock is like what? 1900, 1800? 2700 is a big difference. Take it for what it is....a loss.

 

Duh....who drives stock vehicles? I don't run 11's, never said I did, im pretty sure im high 12's with some traction. I know your giving insight and if you don't fall under "One of those people who think the LS1 is *** like". Good, one less ignorant person on here. I don't doubt the LS1's ability to make power easily, it is a superior engine, that doesn't make it unstopable or feasible in most situations.

 

How do you figure??? his comment was easy 12.7, his friend with the same mods ran a BEST of 12.94. So does his car compare to the test car in the fact that I am so wrong that those mods would make a 12.7 easy car. Right weather, right traction, right track sure. How often will you see it, not very. a 13.16 is a very respectable time for those basic bolt ons, and 12.7 easy isn't so easy, even for your friend with the 3400 stall and 3.73's. When his buddy runs a 12.7 consistently with the mods he has or better then I'll admit that I was wrong that it is so easy with those mods to run 12.7's. But until then you haven't shown me anything yet. Oh, and 2800 to 3400 stall is a big difference, putting the stall further into the powerband of the motor. Put both cars side by side and his would outlaunch a 2800 stall (even if it had 3.73's). so if I switched from a stock 1800 to a 2400 I wouldn't see a difference, is that what you mean by not a big difference

 

Jesus, I never said the stall wasn't a big difference, but use your own logic when the stock is a 1800 or whatever, 2200, whatever stock is and he put in a 2800 and I don't what the heck your talking about with the time slips, I didn't even mention time slips, you guys did. All I said was I know im not the fastest guy on the block a guy here in town with a LS1 runs 11's. I never said it was the guy I raced.

 

Everytime i see the LS1 vs LT1 discussion, it becomes strikingly similar to the 305 vs 350 discussion.....

 

LS1 vs LT1, 350 vs 305.........

WHO CARES!!!!!!!!!

Just run what ya brung, and be proud you've got an American made performance machine. What's under the hood really only matters to the point that you make it matter to yourself. If you like what you've got, that's all that counts.

 

Thats exactly what I was trying to say but people keep bringing up "Stock for stock, blah blah blah".

 

Exactly. Your talking apples and oranges in every response. Face it, an LS1 will out run a LT1 period with same race weight, same driver. Stick an LS1 in your car and see for yourself.
Yes, LS1 parts are ridicously expensive, however, the outcome is better. A better engine to start out with. The engine really repsonds to mods.

Oh yeah, lots of people run stock engines.

As 89FormulaLS1 said, run what ya brung, and if your happy with what you have, that is all that counts. I would have probably been just as happy with the '97 LT1 I test drove, but I doubt it.

Now can we get back to helping the original poster.

 

I thought with your comment on 2700 a big difference was that it was big enough to be with a 3400. I am sorry with my reply to that, misunderstanding. My beef was saying take it as a loss. I THINK you were telling me that I was wrong in the fact that an LT1 with those mods would not easily run 12.7. I think alot of this was a misunderstanding on my part from the response you gave so if so I apologize and I agree with 89FormulaLS1 , I'm happy with what I've got, if you have something that makes you happy more power to you. Your the one that has to drive it and be happy no one else so who gives a f**k. You build the car for yourself not someone else.

 

LT1:
-bolt in with vette accessories or denting the x-member or an a/c delete pulley with camaro accessories

-all thirdgen headers bolt right up

-parts cost is less

-head and cam kits run approximately 350-420 rwhp 340-375rwtq depending on severity of setup, strokers get you more but start to be limited by head and manifold design, there are fixes but they are very expensive..Stroker motors are also limited to 406 ci..

-Non mexican-made t56..

LS1
-INDUCTION, much better intake tract, flows better.. the LS induction slaps the LTx silly..

-Head and cam kits run 380-450 rwhp again depending on setup and streetability..

-Stoker motors are more responsive LS based since the topend is better straight off the bat.. the cubic inches can get to be more than the LTx engines but require block resleeving or switching to an iron truck-based LSx block..

-is the future of small block design, parts will become cheaper and more readily available.


The only regret I have with my LTx based swap is that it is an engine whose development is now somewhat stagnated, while the LS series of engines is the new big thing and has a bright aftermarket future and as such is an excellent base to have for the future of the car..

with that out of the way my LTx car can beat some LSx cars and be beaten by others..

 

I agree J' T/A. Good post!

Hopefully, the price of LS1 parts will come down
in the near future. LT headers for one. Not going to happen, so what the heck grit my teeth and pull out the plastic.

Some parts are reasonably priced, others outrageous!

 

Of course. Apples and oranges, otherwise.

 

i got to drive my dads SS Camaro before he had to turn it in on the lease and it was amazing. The LS1 is a great engine and the 6 speed makes it 100x better.

I'd go with the LS1 if I were you. But little ole me who can't afford to do the LS1 swap is going to drop the LT1 in my iroc.