327-350 Fact from Fiction - Page 2 - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

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327-350 Fact from Fiction

Old 06-24-2005, 10:31 PM
  #51  
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im prolly stupid for posting this picture, but i love this shot of my car, shows that that 327 pushes around, and trust me, its not as drematic as it looks. i was called every name in the book before. but i just wanted to show this. dont ask why
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:36 PM
  #52  
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O.K. lets not get in trouble on this board, it has to be 350-327 related, oh you a a 327 equiped car I guess its ok!!!!
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Old 06-24-2005, 10:40 PM
  #53  
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yeah i know... sorry... but just wanted to show what that motor pushes, and it turns those tires over real easly
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Old 06-24-2005, 11:02 PM
  #54  
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Give me the specs on your car I love hearing anything about 82-92 camaro and firebirds! Email me though, everyone has a good thing going on this sight, OH by the way This thread has inspired me to collect pics on factory 350/327 engines!!
Thanks Randy
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:59 PM
  #55  
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I'm in a Corvette forum as well, and the Corvette had both the 327 and the 350 as engine options during the third generation years ('68-'82). Even though the original engine codes exist for these cars, "L79", "LT-1", "ZR-1", etc., I don't know too many owners that are actually leaving their engines original. Some of them remove the original engine to preserve their car's value and go and put different engines in them, such as 383 strokers or ZZ4 crate motors or whatever. Other owners rebuild their original engines to make a lot more power than they originally did. In other words, the motor may be an "L-79" in name only.

What I'm getting at is that the engine option code doesn't mean that much anymore, 30-something years later. These engines are getting tired and rebuilt, and are almost never rebuilt to original specifications. So throwing around the original horsepower numbers doesn't mean much anymore. You could have an "L79" that is actually a 383 making a lot more power than the "LT1" ever did. See what I mean?

But the actual point the guy was getting across, that torque is king on the street, I agree with.

For example, compare a Honda S2000 with its torque-less engine but with good power up high, with a Viper that has tremendous torque down low. Which one will be quicker on the street? That's a more extreme example of 327 vs. 350, but the point is the same. The torquier engine will feel quicker and perform better on the street.

On my Corvette, which is a big block 427, I used to have a bigger solid roller cam on it. Below 3500 rpm, it was gutless, but above 7000 rpm it was beautiful. I swapped it for a solid roller cam one "size" smaller in the series. Even though it won't rev as high, and will be 20 or 30 less horsepower on the books, it should perform a lot better because midrange torque is very much stronger and it'll start waking up at 3000 rpm. So if I were to race myself, I'd be a lot quicker with the smaller, torquier cam.

Yes, on the street, torque is more important.
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Old 06-25-2005, 02:23 PM
  #56  
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The only reason Id build a 327, is if the parts were easy to find and not to expensive.

Id build one.. but id want to use a late model block (1pc rear main)

It might be a bit more streetable concidering less stroke makes your torque curve peak higher thus the hight reving factor.

How many time do you hear - If I can get it to hook ..

If it hooks, they risk breaking parts ...

If it doesnt, you dont break parts, but dont take advantage of your engines power\your investment.

my
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Old 08-25-2005, 03:43 AM
  #57  
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I know its been a while since anybody posted, but people we're saying the 327's sounded awesome. If anybody wants I can record the sound of mine in my 87 Iroc. True dual exhaust(2 1/2in) straight back from some hooker supercomp longtubes to some flowmaster super 40's. Its extremely deep sounding at idle but when revved its a little bit different then a 350.
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Old 08-25-2005, 09:01 AM
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hey toca, lets compair sounds, my 327 has a mild cam, flat pistons, slightly better than stock intake and big *** carb, out through edelbrock headers to costom bent pipes to sidepipes that are basically straight pipes. send me your sound at [email protected] and ill get mine recorded
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Old 08-26-2005, 02:00 AM
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I disagree spectre. A smaller stroke wont make it more streetable.
If you put a big cam in a 327 it will lope, you put the same cam in a 350 to 400 it will idle smoother.
Thats why if you hear a 375 hp 396 and a L72 427 425 hp, the 427 will sound milder.
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Old 08-26-2005, 09:22 AM
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yes a 327 will lope more than a 350 with the same cam, but not much... and a lope doesnt make it any less streetable, if you know how to hadle it that is. gotta figure that an ls1 yes it idles smooth but your pusing same horse and thats streetable... plus the lope sounds good
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Old 08-26-2005, 11:19 AM
  #61  
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Has anyone actually had a swap from a 305.350 to a 327 on 3rd gen camaro or firebird?

My friend is selling me a 327 engine taken from a 68 Camaro

But I don't know if I should get it, he's selling it to me for 50 dollars.
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Old 08-26-2005, 11:58 AM
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on the street torque is king. The ls1 engines have a slightly bigger stroke than the old 350s.
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Old 08-26-2005, 03:43 PM
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i have an 84 sports coupe camaro with a 327 in it, go for it... if you want it to look good, take your time and rewire or get someone to rewire it. when i got the car and droped motor in the rest of the drive train was bone stock, held up fine, nothing broke i just upgraded it. so go for it
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:00 AM
  #64  
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Either way you go, any 4 inch bore or bigger chevy small block will run good. Its just a good design. With the camshaft selection and good heads we have today, if one uses common sense you cant go wrong.
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Old 08-27-2005, 04:01 AM
  #65  
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Originally posted by 84327power
i have an 84 sports coupe camaro with a 327 in it, go for it... if you want it to look good, take your time and rewire or get someone to rewire it. when i got the car and droped motor in the rest of the drive train was bone stock, held up fine, nothing broke i just upgraded it. so go for it
What kind of wire harness do you use for a 327?

the 350 computer???
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Old 08-27-2005, 11:44 AM
  #66  
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my 327 is carberated, i removed air, heat, smog system, basically everything thats electrical. the only thing yet is the distributer. so i didnt use a harness. but you can get a hassle free harness that shoudl only have what you need on it. pretty sure there called hassle free even... but like i said.. i just removed everything that was being used... computer included
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by 84327power
hey toca, lets compair sounds, my 327 has a mild cam, flat pistons, slightly better than stock intake and big *** carb, out through edelbrock headers to costom bent pipes to sidepipes that are basically straight pipes. send me your sound at [email protected] and ill get mine recorded
My engine is pretty much the same. I just have a edel performer cam and intake, flatop pistons, and a huge carb also. Tonight im ordering a edel rpm air gap intake and a different cam.
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Old 08-27-2005, 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Psycho_91Camaro
Has anyone actually had a swap from a 305.350 to a 327 on 3rd gen camaro or firebird?

My friend is selling me a 327 engine taken from a 68 Camaro

But I don't know if I should get it, he's selling it to me for 50 dollars.
I had a swap from a 2.8 and 305 to a 327.
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Old 09-01-2005, 10:09 AM
  #69  
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First of let me just say i have been planning a 327 Swap in my IROC. Altough mine would be TPI. There was just something that was bothering me. If the 327 is so short on torque. what does that make the 305 TPI. thats what my car has and i have over 300 ft lbs of torque at the rear wheels. But anyways now thanks to this post im sure i wanna swap a 327 when my 305 dies. (which seems like never ) mmmm 327 Tuned Port. that would make it have torque.....
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:19 AM
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when it comes to torque, i dont think the 327 is lacking, mine has more torque than a friends 400 off the line, it just loses some down a ways... i dont believe you will be sorry with going from a 305 to a 327
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:01 PM
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A 327 built the same as a 305 will have more torque than the 305. The reduction in stroke will be more than made up with the addition of cubic inches.

Torque is a matter of how you fill the cylinders at a given RPM. And, when you get down to it, that's how you make horse power, because HP is just a time-based expression of torque.

So, put a cam in the 327 that speaks to the strength of TPI, along with good heads and exhaust, and you'll have as much torque as your heart desires.
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Old 09-01-2005, 08:40 PM
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The stroke of an engine is the main factor in torque. The bore size is the hp factor. a 4 inch bore alows larger valves ect.
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Old 09-01-2005, 10:29 PM
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Sorry, that is just too simplistic. Torque is a fuction of force times lever arm. Increase the force, even if the lever arm is reduced, and you'll get the same or more torque. Since 4" bore enhances cylinder fill, and better cylinder fill increases the fuel/air that will act on the larger pressure area, meaning more force, you'll get more torque with a 327 than you will with a 305.

Works every time it's tried (and properly executed).
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Old 09-01-2005, 11:31 PM
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So when you put a 3.75 crank in a 350 what happens?
The bore does play a part i agree. thats why when you compare a 305 and 350 the 350 will usualy have about 30lbs of torque over the 305(Stock engines).
Randy
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:41 AM
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Torque definitely makes a difference in a street car. However, with the gas prices getting ridiculous, a smaller displacement 327 (in comparison to a 350) may not be that bad an idea. You should see an mpg or two from the smaller engine, and it'll tend to make more power than a 305. So I still see a 327 as an upgrade to a third gen.

Don't expect miracles though, the 3rd gen is a fairly heavy car for a little 327. I would suggest the smaller cam that improves torque response over a larger, lopier cam. However, if you'd rather have the lope, then at least improve your rear end gears. 3rd gens were also notorious for their tall rear end gears in most cases. With a 700R4's 3.06 first gear ratio, anything shorter than a 3.08 will give a good launch.

I've found the 3rd gen drivetrain to be fairly tough over the years. Provided you don't hammer it 100% of the time, with a warmed over 350, I have never had trouble with my 700R4 or rear end. So I don't think sticking a 327 in a 3rd gen will hurt such a drivetrain...however, a T5 might be tested by the 327's higher horsepower.

And...actually, in response to the last post, INCREASING the length of the lever arm increases torque. Picture using a lever to move a boulder. A longer lever will make it easier to move the boulder, not a shorter lever.
Still, bore versus stroke makes a difference more at the edge of the envelope. The actual differences are minor. Take a 383 for example, there are two ways of building one. If you stroke a 350 with a 400 crank, and if you destroke a 400 with a 350 crank. Piston speed is what changes dramatically. You can get a higher physical redline with equivalent parts if you get the slower piston speed of a destroked 400 version of a 383. And higher rpm allows you to get higher horsepower if you cam for it.
But for a street engine, there won't be much difference. I believe you'd have to run both engines near the ragged edge to see a difference, and then you'd probably see a little more torque down low in the stroked 350 and a little more horsepower up high on a destroked and cammed 400.
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Old 09-02-2005, 12:11 PM
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ok rockin, first off, i have a 327 pushing well over 300horse, friend of mine has a 355 pushing a bit more, and his motor gets better milege, but also i drive mine harder. ok and with the drive train yes i agree that a 700r4 is a tuff as **** tranny, and that rear end with 3.08s is what i run (for now) and its held up wonderfully. it all comes down to what you like, if you want the nastalgia ( i know i spelled that wrong and im sorry) of a 327 and build it, or do you want the common 350, they are both pretty similar, you can do pretty much what ever you want to either, and they will be pretty evenly matched, there were low ends of each, and high ends of each, i love my 327 i wouldnt traid it for any 350 out there. its up to the individual
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Old 09-02-2005, 02:00 PM
  #77  
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Originally posted by Rockin-Iroc
And...actually, in response to the last post, INCREASING the length of the lever arm increases torque. Picture using a lever to move a boulder. A longer lever will make it easier to move the boulder, not a shorter lever.
Increasing the stroke increases the torque if the rotating force remains the same. The smaller displacement engine has less force driving the piston down, regardless of bore and stroke.
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Old 09-02-2005, 09:56 PM
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I will build a 327 some day. any chevy engine with a 4 inch bore or over will run great. I have never built a 400 but i want to, I love building a chevy engine. The excitement of finding out how each combo will work. High rpms, or high torque.
The chevy small block is an American Icon!
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Old 09-02-2005, 10:04 PM
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Im pricing parts im going to build a 327 over the winter.
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Old 11-13-2005, 07:45 AM
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Very interesting reading!

I have a 327 engine in my IROC. But i have a problem with it, sense the ECM was for the 305 the chip was re-programed of the 350 diagram. It has run on the 1/4mile with another intake but now with the TPI it gets to much gas in the higher rews.

Thought a carburettor could be in place but would surley mitt the quick respondese of the TPI.

Annyone knowing somone that have programing knolige or grate diagram of a 327 TPI motor??
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Old 11-13-2005, 08:32 AM
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I am not sure if this was already discussed but I will bring it up anyway. If the 327 and the 350 are built IDENTICAL then the 327 will have more top end horse power due to the fact the cam selected will act as a bigger cam in the smaller engine. I also have to vouch for the shorter stroke revving higher without regards to the valvetrain holding it back. Go out and buy any stock 307 as I did, put a 600 double pumper on it and see how much higher it revs vs. a 350 with a cam and 4 barrel carb. If I had a camera I would post the video of my two trucks and prove it. And for those that have desktop dyno simply build the same engines and you will see the 327 having more top end horsepower. The torque is down yes, but when you are racing what does that matter when you are attempting to keep it in its peak powerband? Stroke vs. bore is very important in building an engine. I once read an article on a quad turbo'd engine where they would give the displacement but would not reveal the the stroke or bore because the were in a very competitive racing class. Now why would they due that? If I am drag racing and need to see peak horsepower at 7000rpm, give me the 327, driving a truck or a very heavy car give me the treefitty. Peace out.
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Old 11-13-2005, 02:05 PM
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I have to disagree. You cannot discount displacement that easily. I would agree that a built and souped up 327 would make more horsepower than a mild and stock 350, but if you put the same money and effort in the 350, then the benefit of the extra cubic inches would make more power and torque. Same with a 383 or a 406.

Don't forget that horsepower is simply torque multiplied by rpm and divided by a constant.

HP=Torque x RPM/5252

So you increase torque and build your combination to also increase your rpm with those larger cubic inches, and horsepower has no choice but to increase.

The debate will go on, but the question is, IS he going to purely race this car? Or is he going to drive it on the street at all? If the answer is the latter, then torque is FAR more important than pure upper rpm horsepower.

About the carb versus tuned port, I wouldn't convert to a carb. The tuned port maximizes torque in a way that not even a small carb on a dual plane can match. And when I converted from a Holley on a Wieand dual plane to a TPI, not only did I gain big power, but I also gained 5 mpg!!!
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Old 11-14-2005, 02:46 AM
  #83  
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a 307 is just a 283 bore with a 327 crank. the 283 has a shorter 3.0 stroke compared to the 3.25 stroke of the 307. so if a shorter stroke engine revs better why dont the 283 rev? The 283 doesnt have the 4 inch bore.
There is no relacement for displacement.
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Old 11-16-2005, 12:19 PM
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Having built, owned, and driven 283, 302, 305, 307, 327, 350 and 400 SBCs, I think I have a little to contribute here (am I repeating myself?).

A simple way to sum up most of what is said about stroke vs. bore vs. displacement vs. torque vs. high-reving is - BUNK!

327 iroc, you need to aquaint yourself with PROM tuning. Forget trying to get something off the shelf, even with "normal" TPI displacements, they fall short. You'll realize more satisfaction from do-it-yourself PROM tuning than you possible could by trying to get someone else to guess, mail a chip, have you try it, return the chip, have them guess again, etc., etc., etc.

Last edited by five7kid; 11-16-2005 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 11-16-2005, 12:27 PM
  #85  
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Originally posted by 86 sports coupe
a 307 is just a 283 bore with a 327 crank.
That's true, but doesn't tell the whole story. All 283s were small journal, some 327s were small journal (up through 1967), all 307s were large journal (medium mains, technically, since 400 mains were larger than 307/350/305 mains). Only 1968 & 1969 327s were large journal.
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:45 PM
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68-69 327 large journals Cranks( Steel) are very scarce indeed.
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Old 11-16-2005, 06:52 PM
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No matter the displacement, I truly enjoy bolting the small block chevy together, and the excitement of hearing it fire up for the 1st time. Or trying a new bolt on part.
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Old 11-17-2005, 12:08 AM
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I have a 69 large journal 327 NOM. Compliments of my grandfather who worked as the super indendant of the foundry that casted the pistons. Supposedly the block has the same casting numbers as the DZ302 blocks but this has yet to be confirmed as the engine is hiding in a corner so I will update this in a future post when I decide to look at it. peace out.
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Old 11-17-2005, 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by 87z28fromhell
Supposedly the block has the same casting numbers as the DZ302 blocks ...
That's not surprising, as it was a run-of-the-mill 4" bore block, used for 327's and 350's.
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:19 PM
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If it is a 69 block it wouldnt be the same casing as a 327, maybe a 350 but not a 327. GM never made a 4 bolt 327. Im sure there are alot of 4 bolt 327s on the streets, but gm never made them.
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Old 11-17-2005, 08:54 PM
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Who said anything about 4 bolts?

The 3932386, 3970010 and 3956618 castings were finished for 4 bolts in the Z-28 302, and 2 bolts for the 327.

Last edited by Apeiron; 11-17-2005 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:47 AM
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read the last coment before mine, it mentioned the possibility of using a 302/327/350 block for a 4 inch bore. In 69 the 302/350 went 4 bolt.
I dont know everything and Im not pretending to.
SO IF EVERYONE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT THE SMALL BLOCK CHEVY, WHO DESIGNED IT? I know, I want to hear what people think designed it.
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:53 AM
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Yes, and the same castings were used for a 302, 350 and 327, regardless of whether they were later machined for 2 bolt or 4 bolt caps. It's entirely possible that a 327 could have the same casting as a 302.

Last edited by Apeiron; 11-18-2005 at 03:31 AM.
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Old 11-18-2005, 09:58 AM
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This NOM that I have was one of three that were supposed to be used for testing at the factory which was Bohn aluminum. Two of them were actually used but this one was never fired. Yes the 327 was never "released" from the factory with four bolt mains, that is not to say that they weren't tested with four bolt mains. I have not had the oil pan off to see if the engine has two or four. My grandfather said that he thought it might have been a four bolt main engine, but it is definitely a 69 327 with a steel crank, double roller timing chain and had the small valves which it was intended for heavy truck or industrial use. An interesting side note is that the 1969 c-10 and c-20 no longer had the option of the 327. Anyone have any reason or theory why? peace out.
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Old 11-18-2005, 02:43 PM
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My guess would be that after 67 chevy released the 350 acrossed the board in just about anything with an optional v8.
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Old 11-19-2005, 08:55 AM
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thanks for the guess, however the two small block options in terms of cubic inches for the 1969 c10 and c20 were the 350 and the 307. I just find it strange that you could get a 327 in a camaro, among other vehicles, in 1969 but not in a truck.
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Old 11-19-2005, 09:46 AM
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maybe they were phasing out the 327, and didnt want to cast more 327 parts than they had to?
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Old 11-19-2005, 11:23 AM
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I find it hard to believe the tuned port 350 never found its way into a truck. That would have made a very torquey truck motor. In fact, I'm also surprised that a Chevy 400 never ended up in a production Corvette. They did put one into a show Corvette but never into a production Corvette.

And regarding an earlier comment, I'm pretty certain Corvette small blocks were typically always 4-bolt mains, and that includes 327's. The moderator is right, there were two different main bearing sizes for the 327, small and large. So not all 327's are compatible with different stroke cranks.

For example, if you have an earlier 327 with the small journal crank, you can build a 302, but not a 350. If you have a later 327, you can build a 350 or a 383. While we're at it, you can destroke a 400 to make it a 377 and it would have about the same rod/stroke ratio as a 327 except with 50 more cubic inches. But in order to do that, you have to modify a 350 crank shaft for the 400's journal size. That makes a really nice race motor that loves to rev, but I would put a large single carb on it with a single plane intake to better take advantage of the high rpm talent.

There are a lot of combinations you can do with the gen II small block. It's when you get into the LT-1's and later that you can't swap things around anymore.

There are many great heads you can get for the gen II's. Probably the most powerful head I know of is a 4-valve/cylinder head for the Chevy small block made by Dominion. It is still a pushrod design, it just has shaft mounted custom rockers to push on 2 valves each rather than one. I remember an article years ago testing the Dominions against the best 2-valve heads and the Dominion heads were an honest 100 hp stronger. They were about the same up to around 3500 rpm, and then the 4-valve heads made better power above that as if there were a supercharger bolted on. When I priced them, the bare heads were 5 grand and built up, they cost 7 grand. So if money were no object, these are the heads to have. I did a search yesterday and found them still available through GMPP.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:46 PM
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The 2 different main journals on the 327 is correct. The 67 350 had small journals also. In 68 both 327 and 350 went to large journals. 327s only had 2 bolt journals. Most older guys will say that the small journal 327s ran better then the large. When I build 400s I turn the shaft down to the 350 size and use special bearings. learned our lessons on circle track cars that the huge journals on the 400s don't like rpms. once we went to the smaller journals the engines lived for 5 years with a lot of abuse. There are so many combinations with small blocks you can make almost anything all it takes is turning shafts down or special bearings, or boring out the block. 307 bored to 4in is a 350, 283 bored to 4in is a 302 and so on. I like to build street engines with less low end. Every engine i have had could smoke the tires. I like the engine to make more power once the car is rolling. But thats just me.
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Old 11-30-2005, 11:48 PM
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the 307 and the 283 has the same bore, if you bore a 307 to 4 inch bore( wich the block will not take that bore) it will be a 327, look at the stroke of the 327 and 307 you will find they have a 3.25 inch stroke.
There is some truth to the smaller journal engines revving faster, I beleive there is less friction do to the smaller journals.
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