Atilla the Fun

But then you only get 2 bolts in each Moroso silver, and I feel that's not good enough.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

If it's not hanging off the back like the SBC mounts hang off the front, then drill the last hole

1MeanZ

iTrader: (9)

I'm not trying to tell you the errors of your ways, I'm not sure I'd consider them errors. I now understand that this is not a matter of power per dollar, the focus is being different and thats fine.

Atilla the Fun

You type as though you think me incompetent. I considered this long ago. Heck, you can see in the pics that the silvers would be less than half on.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

No, you dont have the silvers in teh V6 position, or flat mounted to the block. It was a suggestion, simple

If you're going to take it to heart, then ignore it

Atilla the Fun

I know I don't, but anyone good with spatial relations can see how they line up. You're still an annoying thorn in my side, I keep finding some way to try being friendly to you all over again, but this is getting old. But just for you, I'll go back into my paint program, and use the straight lines feature to show where the silvers would sit.

Atilla the Fun

Due to tired and headache, I got sidetracked and then carried away, but here's an accurate-enough depiction.

Drac0nic

I was just bringing the motor mounts up because even though you mentioned the 2.8L ones, there was not any discussion of the Astro swap mounts so it may be a possible alternative without drilling any holes for fitment. You know an easy, bolt in swap?

Glad I'm dealing with a "truck" not a car chassis that makes it a lot easier for me by the sounds of it. EPA regs=annoying I still bet a stock Vortec 4.3L would blow cleaner than most third gen combinations available.

Besides that I will say geeze, that guy must have been on the change his oil every 10,000 miles plan whether he needed to or not.

Atilla the Fun

I agree that the Silverado 1500's Vortec 4.3 is cleaner, and has been since 96, than any third gen is required to be. But our law-makers only do what they are told will sound good to getting the voters to re-elect them.
The EPA and the C.A.R.B. don't talk to real enthusiasts or real technicians, they only consult with college theorists, and that being the case, I gotta wonder why those theorists don't get us new truck engines into older cars.
Anyway, I did spend a week reading the act, and the 1990 ammendment, and the 4.3 Vortec isn't legal. You might live someplace where you can get away with it, but if Obama gets the enforcement going, you'll have to change it or park it.

Fallen2603

Sorry, I came off a little harsher than I meant to. Thanks for understanding, though.

Atilla the Fun

A little white out to outline what mustn't be cut

Atilla the Fun

and the cuts made well enough for mock-up

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

This is the '96 Astro AWD driver side manifold, it definitely does NOT fit, plus the outlet is smaller than the '89 S-10 2WD version in the next few pics.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Tomorrow I'll try to get a pic from underneath, showing how it's aimed. But it's a good fit.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

The accessory brackets shown in this batch are from the '89 S-10 2WD, mostly because I forgot I had sold the '91 Camaro LO3 set, and I forgot where I left the Astro brackets, probably at my neighbor's shed.

Atilla the Fun

I know you're already wondering if they fit under the hood, and I did get to that, but more of these other pics first. the alternator was temporarily borrowed from my '94 454 Suburban 4WD.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

I know I need to put a crank pulley on the damper, and show how it clears the steering, but that'll hafta wait for tomorrow.

Atilla the Fun

Moving to the other side, notice that the fuel lines need to be relocated.

Atilla the Fun

the manifold's kick-out is well below my broken heater box, so no worries there. this manifold is also from the '89 S-10 2WD. It's not actually touching the fuel lines, but you need feeler gauges in the 0.003" range to determine that. Anyway, on to the next pic.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

be glad I broke the heater box, it gives you better views

Atilla the Fun

Notice that my '89 S-10 was manufactured without the A.I.R. system, but the bracket has provisions for it anyway.

Atilla the Fun

This batch of pics makes it obvious why I had to cut the front ears of the swap brackets. BTW, now that you see that they work, I'd be willing to sell them. PM me if interested.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

I had the neighbor teen stick his hand up there to show the size of the gap.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

All it needs to clear is to trim the underhood bracing along the 2 straight white lines.

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

Atilla the Fun

The '89 S-10 2WD power steering hoses will work just fine if both the high pressure hose and the steering box are the same threads.

Fallen2603

Since the V6 has the same front accessory-drive hole pattern as the SBC V8, wouldn't a serpentine system, like the ones from March Performance, be a great fit?

Atilla the Fun

If you want to try it, that's up to you. I've just proved that this works. If I hadn't sold my LO3 parts, I could be showing you what I discovered 3 years ago: The LO3 brackets cause the accessories to hit the crossmember before you get them snugged tight to the block.
I'm willing to let go of the 2 pieces that I cut the ends off of, then you can get everything else from any salvage yard that has any '88-'93 2WD 4.3L S-10. Well, everything but the Morosos, just call Jegs and order a Moroso 62510, and a Moroso 62610. Then just notch your hood brace, drill a few holes to bolt the Morosos to your crossmember, and you're ready to move on to the exhaust system.

Fallen2603

Sooo...those motor mounts, the AA brackets, and a little bit of drilling, cutting, and grinding...and it's all good? Hmmm...INTERESTING. The exhaust is still causing me headaches. If I go with the ProCharged build, I'm going to need 1-5/8"+ primaries, I think. Do you think the short-tube headers offered for the S-10 would fit into the Camaro?

Atilla the Fun

When using turbocharging, the turbo(s) become the choke, so using manifolds becomes a non-issue. Just do a rear-turbo, like Squires' STS.
there's NO way the S-10 headers would work. The first few inches from the heads would, but from there down, you'd have to cut and weld an awful lot.
You can do rear-turbo cheaper than you can buy a new ATI ProCharger head unit. Plus, the only place to put the head unit is where the A.I.R. pump was supposed to be, except that the head unit is too big.
There's no flipping the exhaust manifolds over, upside down, or side-to-side for a front turbo, I already thought of that yesterday morning before getting pics of how they do fit.
Does ATI even offer a kit for the '88-'93 S-10 4.3? I seriously doubt it.
Most good turbos offer around 78% efficiency, while most centrifugal superchargers, strangely enough, are worse than 72% efficient. You can see this on the compressor maps.
Ideally, you would get a pair of Mitsubishi turbos from an '89-'95 Eclipse GS-T /manual trans or GS-X/manual trans. That'd be an easy 400+ HP with no turbo work, and the potential for 700 HP with those turbos at higher boost. They're good units. On a 2.0 Mitsu, one of them is worth full boost at 2000 rpm, with 210 HP at 6000 rpm. On a 4.3, 2 of them should give full boost around 1850 rpm, and peak HP around 5400 rpm. Pretty good.
Getting the Mitsu to 300 front wheel HP with the stock turbo is no challenge.

Fallen2603

Hmmm...you bring up VERY INTERESTING points.
The only question I CAN answer is the one about ATI offering a kit for the 4.3L V6. Since the accessory-drive bolt pattern on the 4.3L is identical to the SBC V8, I could modify parts to work from a SBC kit.
I wasn't planning on including any emissions components in my build, anyways. I live in an area that has no emissions regulations, and I plan on moving to an area, in a few years, where all I have to do is pass a sniffer test.
I was planning on going the centrifugal supercharger route just so I wouldn't have to worry about all the plumbing work that one has to do with a turbo build. In the long run, yes, I know turbo's have more efficiency. However, I'm not looking to make any more than 500rwhp. I think the most basic ProCharger that ATI offers would be more than enough to get me to that. If that one build in Hot Rod is any indication, I wouldn't need any more than 15psi of boost, I think. Couple that with a set of Vortec heads from a 96-later 4.3L V6, after a lot of porting and a rock-solid valvetrain, and a F.A.S.T. EZ-EFI/XFI induction setup, 500rwhp won't be an issue. And, if I get the urge, I have some room to grow...

Atilla the Fun

ATI does have a kit for the '88-'92 V8 F-cars, true. Those brackets are the same for the LO3 as for the LB9. And the LO3 brackets do cause the p/s pump to hit the crossmember before all the bolts are snug. The S-10 brackets put the accessories forward of the block. the LO3 brackets put the accessories more around the block for (unneeded) hood clearance.
To use the ATI kit would require the LO3 brackets which don't clear.
There is another good option, if you're good at fab and are willing to use some 1/4" steel for the sake of rigidity.
Down where the smog pump isn't, you could build a new bracket for a reverse-rotation head unit, like the 4.6L Mustangs of '96-'0?
This would put the ATI pulley in line with your other pulleys, but the body of the ATI would be well forward of all the other accessories. The upshot of this is that the '96 Mustang 4.6 was only 0.3L larger than a 4.3, and the 4.6 made 205 HP stock, where the best 4.3 made 200 HP stock, so the flow requirements are extremely similar.
If it was me, I'd order the Mustang kit, not the f-car kit.

Fallen2603

Hmmm...I'd have to agree with you on going with the '96-'04 Mustang ProCharger kit. I was hoping to fab a bracket that would put the ProCharger in-line with the rest of the accessory-drive with placing it to the right of the driver-side cylinder head, anyways. However, I think you're approach is MUCH BETTER. It will still require some fabrication, but I think it's worth it...
Now, what about having custom manifolds made for a front-turbocharger mount setup? I've seen some set-ups on the V6 forum pages where there are some basic plans for this...how good of an idea would you say something like that is?

Rich2279

iTrader: (7)

I'm with you, bro. I want to do this swap, too. Either the 4.3L or a 3.8L turbo.

Fallen2603

Thanks for the support Rich2279. I just want to do something other than a V8! I went to 3rd-Gen Fest '10, a GREAT event, but all the cars, except for FOUR were TPI or carb'ed V8's. Not that a V8 is bad, just...OVERDONE. I'm still deciding between a ProCharged 4.3L V6 or a ProCharged/Turbocharged 2.8L stroker/hybrid motor. Sooo many decisions out there...
Oh, well, my Camaro has a ways to go before I drop an engine into her. FUN TIMES.

Atilla the Fun

the Sy/Ty crowd have proven the strength of the 4.3, running production parts into the 9s! you can get the 2.8 heads onto the 3.4 from a '93-'95 Camaro, but those blocks let go around 400 RWHP, according to the Fiero crowd. Which I'm active with, because I have an LSx Fiero.
Custom headers are an (expensive) option, but a rear-turbo is still cheaper than the Mustang blower, and the rear-turbo with stock manifolds would result in really cheap. Plus with the boost behind the axle, you keep the nose light for better balance.