hey guys... reaching for about 500-600hp, wondering what size i should go with, whats a good build for acheiving this? (small block, big block) what size (454,383,etc..) quality of parts(edelbrock, dart) and what mods will i need to do to make sure the cars gonna be able to handle this kind of power? aswell built for a supercharger. money isnt the issue.. so price doesnt matter, but nothing overly insane.. keep it within a fair budget.. kind of a newb to this stuff, so please explain! thanks guys! any and all help is greatly appreciated!

cars an 87 z28.

will be a street car (in canada there are no emissions on it ) see the odd track time.. but mainly street.

Goals like that, I'd opt for an iron block 6.0 LSx engine, maybe even build a 402 stroker out of it. That will hit your 500+ goal pretty easily, and should stay pretty streetable as well. You'll want a very stout transmission, a 12-bolt or 9" rear end, and subframe connectors at minimum.

thanks for your input adam!

383 with dart or afr heads or you can reach it with a 454-496 with machined GM heads.

thanks zraffz will look into that!

is that the absolute best block to go with? im new as well, just bought an 89 iroc z, looking for input on the best motor block out there and then i'll get some books on that block. im gonna keep this car for rest of my life so i want to do this right and have the best reliable block out there where i can get the most power out of.. small block preferably cuz less weight and moving parts.

So many ways to skin the cat.

Ditto on the LSx...look at Pace Performance or GMPP catalog, you can pretty much order one in the crate to your liking with a carb/ignition package on it delivered to your door, its the easiest way to make power.

Forced induction gets there quick too but you will be spending a bunch on a premium motor plus FI package and someone who knows what they are doing to tune/set it up etc.

A carbd 402 Lsx sounds like fun and you could run it anywhere without worrying about reliability issues. Very easy to get 5-600 from them

http://paceperformance.com/c-146929-...re-blocks.html
how about that block? could i fit all the same parts on there as a normal block.. is there a difference? im not very inclined with details. lol.

im looking at a thumpr cam
dunno what heads
what pistions would u suggest, compression?
what carb?

id like a 454.

need details and opinions!

carb to pan, what will i need?

i want that big block sound and about 5-600hp.

http://paceperformance.com/i-6255474...sed-bores.html
or
http://paceperformance.com/i-5136276...sed-bores.html
or
http://paceperformance.com/i-5135228...num-block.html
or
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DRT-31263654
what would need to be done to start bolting and throwing these together.. what would be my best option?
looking for about 5-600hp. will these work?

whats my safest bet?

well i think the only way im really going to learn i sgetting the block and buying books on the particular block, so i heard lsx block is the best on out there, i think that fuel injections would be the most efficient right? more complicated but once i get there alot better and less tuning.

so building the block up i believe i'll learn alot more in the long run, i have a 350 right now which runs great and bought it with a rebuilt tranny with shift kit which shifts incredibly smoothly. so i can take my time and build it right, money im not too worried about because i'll keep car for rest of life i was gonna buy a new camaro but decided to build up an older one would be much more satisfying so instead of spending 40 ona new one i'll spend it on an older one and make it perfect so im lookin for best way to go about it

where in Canada are you?

87Z are required to have emissions..

On that note..

10:1 454,around 230@.050 cam,good heads 781,049

I agree, double check that VIN for Drice Clean testing. I bought my 83 just to make sure I was old enough to skip it.

read the side, Toronto, and i dont have to have emissions thank god.

so if i buy the LSX bowtie block, bare block, i can still throw on whatd id put on a dart block?

so will the high deck work in the camaros with a raised hood or would they actually fit with a stock hood. im trying to figure which lsx block to get

The LSX is a completely different animal than a BBC.

"Tall deck" BBC's produce all sorts of complications in 3rd gens. If you're driving on the street, you don't need a tall deck.

yeah i was not sure, its a half inch taller for the lsx bowtie which seams like best block out there right now, but another difference is the main caps for the taller deck are made of forged steel vs nodular iron.. been trying to figure out which block to get.

the LSX swap would be the way to go because of it being streetable and up to date there is no carb on it so no one can recommend that

also an ls swap would mean much less maint then a bbc

yeah im gonna buy an lsx bowtie block, but there two different blocks, one with a deck half inch taller, one has nodular iron main caps and 9.25 deck(19213964)other is forged steel, half inch taller(19244059) so not sure which one to get. im then gonna buy a bunch of tuner books for the lsx block being that im trying to learn cuz i wanna build this myself

yes you do..lol

You can put a carb on a LS engine. Many people do it. I think GM even sells a carbed crate engine.

A big block is very streetable.... Just a gas hog. But any naturally aspirated high performance engine is going to be a gas hog.

The Chevy big block is a very reliable engine. It's going to be on the road a lot longer than an LSx making the same power. There's less wear and tear on the engine because it makes the power by large displacement, not by being run hard as hell.

but how much more efficient and emissions legal is an ls compared to a bbc ?

I don't think either is a concern to the OP. As far as I can tell all he wants is raw power.

Or a death wish lol!

haha if thats the case then go all out

little bit of both

Gm sells a carbd setup with intake ignition etc for the LSX motors.


OP forget about the Thumpr cams build it to make the power, not sound like it.

Beilieve me a 5-600 motor will sound plenty radical.

Thumprs are for guys with stock shortblocks that want to sound like they have something, aka "cruise in hero". Poser cams

That doesn't mean it's a good idea...


Amen to that.

if a crane cam can produce the same sound. im good to go.

suggestions?

+1. Wasteful modification when fuel injection and the computer for the LSx's are very friendly. You can do it, but I don't really see the point.

Decide which you want - the sound, or the performance.

Let's see, I've said this somewhere before (but not here, apparently). My son recently picked up a 2001 Blazer that had the 4.3 V6 swapped out for a 5.3 bored to 5.7, 317 heads, some cam we don't know what, long tube headers, true dual exhaust, mail-order tune. The thing sounds pretty wicked at an idle. Needs some serious tuning to get it running as mean as it sounds. Gas mileage is pretty poor right now. Most likely when it gets all sorted out it'll idle a lot smoother and have a lot more power.

The thumper cam was designed for the person that wants the sound of big power without the hassle or expense of building a great engine. You'll find them mostly in show cars or boulevard cruisers. If you just build a great engine then the sound will be there anyway along with the real muscle to back it up.

both to be honest, i beleive its possible to have both sound and Power, i mean if i have to go with the THUMPR either way ill have both? i heard they arent bad cams. but i mean if i CAN get a crane cam and produce the same sound AND power, then ill go with that.

not too worried about gas mileage at this point, there was somewhere on these forums of a guy who was getting about 35MPG out of his 454 ill have to look around and find it, but i mean if i can get that figured out id be good to go, but its not a concern. dont drive very far to work or around.

If he thinks he gets 35 mpg with a 454 then he needs to go back to remedial grade school math. You're looking at about 8-17 mpg with a big cam, depending which engine you use.

Assemble the motor for desired results.
Heads will be a factor on cam selection as will compression. Cam manufacturers have specs on lift, duration, lobe seperation angle, max rpm, spring rate guides, fuel delivery type,
Etc., not to forget trans type, stall, power brakes, rear gears, car weight, tire size.
Any performance engine will sound very healthy reguardless of cam.
Bad selection of a cam will get you slow times, not to mention being on the
" Hit List " of import crowd.

IIRC, " rough idle " cams are red line around 7000, & require hi compression & large primary tube headers.

Following your threads, interested in your build!!

thank you, i will be posting pics very soon, what would you suggest? for cam?, i mean im open to suggestions which is why im waiting, but still trying to build a mild 454 on a half decent budget, i have the money away but dont wanna rush and do it the right way the first time. which is why i ask for suggestions or builds anyone has to offer or experiences with.

i heard a crane cam was my best option, not too sure which i should go with. still a little up in the air.

basically rebuilding this car over time, (rear end, transmission, engine, etc.) so im open to any and all suggestions, aswell while reaching for about 5-550hp.

if people could make up a build sheet on there suggestions for the build that would be appreciated greatly, i could take them all and pick the best "bang for your buck" build and follow that. zraffz suggested i could build one with that many ponys for under 5000$? id like to see if thats possible.

10:1 compression
781heads
and 230@0.50 cam like daz suggested should possibly reach my goals?

if i could get 500hp out of it ill be happy.


i appreciate everyones responses and still open to many more. most of the guys on this site are great and have alot of knowledge whereas myself im taking the time to learn, from books and others. which is why im taking my time, i dont wanna jump then regret it..

what do you mean "which engine" i use, as in LSX,LT1, or numbers?

6.0L LSx shortblock and go from there. A nice high mileage one can be had for a few hundred bucks and the stock crank and rods would be perfectly fine for a 500hp NA motor. The added costs of converting your car to the LSx powerplant will have to be considered, but its soooo worth it.

You're rapidly settling on a clone of my engine that is for sale, except mine has a supercharger and makes more power. My 454 has 781 heads with a Crower blower cam 288HC. Description from the Crower catalog: "SUPERCHARGER 1 - Excellent low and mid-range torque with moderate boost levels (5 to 10 lbs), this cam romps. RPM Power Range: 2400 to 6000 / Redline: 6000 plus."

http://www.crower.com/media/pdf/2008b/19-66.pdf

Imagine having the right sound, plus the whine of a supercharger, and tire shredding power for less than $5000...... And I have those lovely Lemons headers. And I have an unused Spohn crossmember and adjustable torque arm for a Tremek TKO. That would be a sweet combo.

Okay, now I promise this is the last time I'll bring it up.

I understand your Q now!!
Example :

454 block ( 2 bolt or 4 bolt main )
Standard bore
4.25 stroke crank
6.385 rods
Forged pistons ( .250 dome )
Moly rings
Speed pro bearings
Brodix top end kit-- BB 2 Plus -- Big Chevy kit
Heads, bolts, intake, gaskets, valve covers
Double Roller timing chain-- Comp Cams # 7110

Ok, so this is just an example-- is this what you are asking for??
A complete plan from bare block to finished product??

I doubt the example will get more than 400 tops, it's just parts thrown for example.
Stroker rotating assemblies by Eagle & World can be had as kits.
If that's the way you want to go.
You'll have to do some investigating to find what you want.
Post your findings for the LTx, LSx, & Bigblock.
***Warning***
Once you go Big, it will be almost impossible to go back!! LOL!!

Dont know that youd hit 500hp with that but your torque across the board would amaze you, have built that before. LOTS of fun, honestly you probably wouldnt care what the hp was and it will be easy to drive and last a long time without having to spin it up high.

You can pick up a 2 bolt block, some truck rods, good rod bolts etc. Nothing exotic needed. Bet you could easily build this for 5k maybe even sneak some porting in there. Pick up a used Performer rpm, buy a new 4779 type DP and youll be happy, just a thought

the problem with buying yours is
1. i dont know whats been done to the engine, and i learn nothing.
2. your in illinois? which would cost me shipping, taxes, and brokerage fees.
3. the engine could be a lemon itself, hence why your getting rid of it, not that i dont trust you, id just rather do something myself for the money.
4. why are you selling it at such a cheap price? there something wrong with it? lol.

i appreciate your offer, but i really dont know anything about it. aswell id rather turbo than supercharger (torque loss) but i really do appreciate what your offering

thats exactly what im looking for, but something that will make about 500hp. would be nice, and from the post below, i think i will love the torque, but i wanna try and find that equal balance, (torque, speed) when i need it. yes ttop this is what im looking for, it would be great, just so i know what to get and how much hp i would be producing, i know 500hp from a 454 isnt hard to get.. so if anyone has any suggestions, theyd be appreciated (someone whos experienced the build and dyno themselves) or someone knowledgable on engines. thanks ttop!


aswell id like to keep it pump gas.

or if anyone can find me one and link it? thatd be great too. trying to keep it under 5000$ and achieve 500hp.

aswell keep it open to forced induction in the near future.

No problem. Thanks.

I do want to point out something that will help you develop a better sense of perspective. You think I'm selling my engine for cheap? Quite the opposite! I'm trying to extract every penny the market will bear. Only brand new engines cost a fortune. That's exactly why I encourage you to find a used engine and capitalize on that person's losses. Don't fool yourself: There are quite a few people who spend a fortune building something and then sell perfectly good stuff - even better stuff then what you could afford yourself. Find those people and you'll be very happy with the results.

QWKTRIP has a good point. Sometimes people put things together and they dont act like they had hoped so new or good used pieces go in the FS section.

Just pulled my heads and have them up for sale, only 60 miles on them. Dont even want to say how much I got in them, bet as much as a lot of shortblocks.

Selling cheap just to raise some cash to get a different set. Nothign wrong.

Sure there is some junk out there for sale too, you just gotta spot it or take someone with you who can tell.

Anyway.

Listen to what these guys are telling you about those thumpr cams, they are right on the money. Wanna sound like you got power, go ahead. Wanna really make power AND sound good forget about those things.
Almost any brand cam can sound good. FOr what youre doing Im betting youd love the line of Isky Megacams, they sound tough and make great power. Yes they are old school but they plain work.

Again, ANY brand cam can make power and 500hp will sound tough no matter what, quit focusing on those things and find a real cam that will make the right power where you want it the first time around.

thank you. will take your advice

This thread shouldnt be on this section

Have you read ANY of the posts? He's swapping motors so I would guess this would be the right section......

I also agree on buying a motor someone else built and is now selling. Awesome way to same money.

Did you read the title of this thread?..And the other engine swap thread he started?

I should ask now if an L29 intake(plenum and manifold)can be modified work at 6000 RPM or what I need to program the ECM(or what it takes to convert it to LS1 system)since thats my plan to swap on my camaro

so.. anyone? haha.

so noone here has ever built a 454 with 500+hp.. i know its easy, but i need some ideas on where to start lol..

engine build sheet?! anyone?! haha need some engine experts here..

so if anyones got any 454 build sheets, or could take a minute of there time and throw something together that would make approx 500 hp, thatd be great, thanks guys!