Apeiron

Why do they think they need the flexplate and balancer?

thebuffalo

I don't know, he said he needed the bolts for the flexplate too. I'll ask him when I bring them, that is kind of odd. He needed the rod bearings too. I'm pretty sure to balance it to the weight of it all.

Apeiron

Bolts and bearings he does need.

thebuffalo

Well since I got the block back I'm going to get a fresh coat of paint on it, deciding on the color. Chevy Orange/Red or Black.

thebuffalo

Well, they FINALLY FINISHED!
I will take pics of everything when I get off work. The heads, crank, pistons, and block all look GREAT! I'll take a pic of the block before I paint it and then I'll be painting it when I get off work today. Chevy orange or black? I'm leaning towards black.

thebuffalo

Well overtime at work is kind of taking my time away from cleaning the garage and getting this put together, and this last weekend was the St. Pete Grand Prix so I had to go to that. So this week I will finally start putting this back together.

thebuffalo

Trashcans caught on fire last night and melted part of my garage so it won't open, so I'm kind of stuck, I got to painting the block and cleaning up the stuff I'm reusing. Will take pics whenever I figure out how to get this garage door open...

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Black makes it harder to see leaks.... but it looks better if you have leaks. Dont have to worry about keeping it clean.

I would do red, personally. Chevy orange is for 70s smogger engines.

thebuffalo

Haha, I went with red, funny you say that.



Pics of the fire.

thebuffalo

Garage is almost finished being fixed, then its back to the fun stuff, did one hell of a cleaning on the inside too so I'll have a LOT of room compared to when I pulled the motor

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Man Buffalo, you're lucky your house didn't burn from that! I'm glad it wasn't any worse.

I just read through your whole thread. Just out of curiosity, how much engine building research have you done? There are engine building books out there that would help a lot if you don't already have them. When I first started building engines I probably had hundreds of hours of research done on the process. I read everything I could get my hands on.

If it were me, I would have the machine shop assemble the short block to help ensure all of the tolerances are correct. It may keep you from having to do this again. Then you could assemble the rest of it from there. Not that I doubt your engine building abilities or anything like that. It looks like you have been learning a lot from this thread. I think you may have been better off buying a crate type short block from GM for it, but it's too late for that.

Is there anything that you still need for the rebuild. I still have a bunch of SBC parts that I don't need any more. Feel free to PM me if you want any help or need any parts.

You already have a bunch of nice parts, so it should be pretty nice once you get it all back together.

-Dave-

thebuffalo

Yeah, it has been a serious struggle, my block is still awaiting paint( I painted it, didnt like it, stripped it ). So once I get it painted, its pretty much weekend by weekend until I finish it. Hopefully it will be done before the Florida meet, I don't see why it wouldn't, only thing I'm missing is gaskets for aluminum heads, turns out I cant use mine, maybe a bolt here or there too.

Ill put some pics up when I get off work. The block looks brand new.

thebuffalo

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Get some ATF on those cylinders to prevent surface rust if you haven't already. Looks like you painted the block silver? (not that there is anything wrong with that, it's just a little hard to tell from the pic) Did the machine shop check the cylinder head surface for flatness? Are those aftermarket rod bolts? Did the machine shop have those pistons to make sure they got the final bore size correct? And did they put in new freeze plugs? Sorry for all of the questions. I'm just trying to help believe it or not

thebuffalo

Yeah, they checked everything, weighed and balanced the crank, the rod bolts are aftermarket, and they put all new freeze plugs in.

Well, since I don't really have the tools or knowledge of building the bottom end of my motor, I think I might bring it back to the guys who bored it and have them take care of it, they said they'd charge $235 to build the bottom end, is it worth it? Or should I suck it up, buy the stuff I need, and figure out how to do it myself?

thebuffalo

Well, I just found out I have another year on my lease at my house so I will be able to do this myself. I have been thinking about a low boost supercharger though, what all would I need to do so that I could do this without going forged internals? I'm only looking for 3-5psi. Maybe a low boost turbo? I would like some advice/input on this if anyone has the time.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

For the money it costs to boost and make it reliable... it's way cheaper to just build a stroker.

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I think if I were you, I'd get it back on the road again and make sure that THIS engine is going to be reliable and then maybe consider boost. You definitely wouldn't want to exceed 5psi though unless you have low compression pistons in it. You might want to consider an LSx swap before you go with boost. Just my two cents

thebuffalo

Godwin-Singer just finished the bottom end, going to pick it up today hopefully, should have it ready to go in the car in weekend

thebuffalo

Just got it, looks good too, going to get to work this weekend

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Nice! Congrats man.

NathanLewis

cool to see an engine block thats not orange for once

thebuffalo

Does anybody know what kind of headers won't be in the way on my angled spark plugged heads. It is extremely hard to use the headers that I have, what are good fitting headers for a 88 trans am with a 350?

Ranchopower

I have a real nice set of hooker 1 3/4 long tube ceramic coated I just removed from a car with Dart Pro1 heads angled plug.
Maybe your interrested?


Javier

thebuffalo

Those don't look like they would fit, I will have to check tomorrow when I have some daylight.

Ranchopower

I removed them from a 1992 Camaro
82-92 Chevrolet Camaro Base, Iroc-Z, Rs, Z28 part# 2210-1HKR
Hooker Super Compeition Header (Metallic Ceramic Coating) (Full Length Tube 1.75 In. X 28 In. O.D.) (Collector Size 3 In. O.D.) (Collector Length 6.5 In.) (Port Shape Same As Port) (Fits W/Angle Plug Head)

thebuffalo

The hookers I have right now are meant for a 82-92 camaro/firebird and they fit about as nicely as a pissed off badger. The problem with those is how they go down then back, I really couldn't see those fitting at all, the ones I have now tuck and go back and they make it.

What torque do I set the bolts for my heads to, can anyone tell me?

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Did you try Google searching it? Stock head bolts or aftermarket?

thebuffalo

Aluminum heads with aftermarket head bolts. No accurate answer from google either.

Would I do 65 ft/lbs on aluminum heads?

dprest68

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm. Sounds pretty close. I'll look to see if I can find it from when I built my 350. Sometimes the maker of the head bolts will supply you with the information. So look into that.

thebuffalo

Well, as I was looking for my gaskets yesterday and could not find them, I realized someone must have thrown them out. I guess it was my fault for leaving them in the box. So I have to get some new gaskets, I'm pretty sure the head gaskets were useless anyways since I bored the motor. One question on the head gaskets, does it matter what kind I get because I have aluminum heads? And also, what thickness should I get?

Ranchopower

Seems like you only built less than a few engines, Aplus for trying

Head gaskets are many to choose from, bore sizes are deneral when buying replacment gaskets. Cometic can make you anything you want.
Quench is what you want but you need info from your engine, like how far in the hole out of the hole is the piston at top dead center. without that info just use a regular FelPro gasket...


Javier

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I dont know if you need o-ringed gaskets or not... Was your block decked? How true are your heads?

You must get the quench in the .040-.050 range for optimum performance.

http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/...3&t=726&p=9291

If you measure your pistons and they're .045 in the hole already (very possible) you're in pretty bad shape. The thinnest reasonable gasket you can get is gonna be in the mid .020s ... so your best possible quench would be in the .070 range. Not good at all.

1gary

The formula for SCR is in this link:

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/compstaticcalc.html

The DCR takes into account which cam your using and the overlap when both the exhaust and intake valves are open for the amount of bleed-off in compression.It is in this link:

http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm

Remember,when looking at piston volumes + means less compression(say a dished piston) and - means less compression(say a domed piston).

Ranchopower

YES YES YES! to the above Post, I always shoot for .035 quench but that is just me and the junk I assemble.

I think alot of people would rather skip all this complicated stuff and just put the engine in and get down the road.

Me on the other hand would take out a perfectly good running engine to see what the quench actually is...

Years ago I built a 84 Camaro for my buddy, still running! We picked up a Bennett Auto Reman engine long block, sold the heads and took it all the way apart to put new pistons and Alum vette heads and a cam.

Upon inspection the machine work was done echo en mexico
So that meant 8 cylinders had 8 different quench heights when I checked it. Giant disappointment, had to just assemble it as is. .020 average on one bank and .040 on the other. Not even 2 cylinders were the same!
So I put some steel shim head gaskets like .015 thick I think, hard to remeber this was 2001 maybe, anyway it did run real good and it still runs around town.
Bummer about it was my buddy sold the car, I only was able to get one single tune on it and was never able to touch it again, yet the guy that owns it lives a few miles away he wont let me near it! He thinks Ford Guys dont work on Chevies! I built the Whole car!


Javier

thebuffalo

How do I measure my pistons, and by in the hole do you mean the little hole on top of my pistons, or the actual clearance between them and the heads?


And for the headers, these are what I don't want, real hard to work with on my setup.



What are some good headers for a 88 trans am with a 350, no a/c.

1gary

Say .010 down in the hole is in fact the piston top,but the piston it's self with eyebrows have a rated volume taking into account the eyebrows.Say in my case the Icons I am using are -18cc pistons which means they are not adding to compression because they are dished.

thebuffalo

these are the pistons I have

Ranchopower

Those look like $60 a set friction masters! those are good for scap metal trucks delivering scrap metal to the scrap metal collector.

Nothing performance about them Slugs... just saying, no disrespect.

Javier

Ranchopower

Look in the picture for "Deck clearence" that is the Quench. that measurement needs to happen, then you can spend more money...


Javier

thebuffalo

I would rather do less of the spending money part, how do I go about measuring the deck clearance?

Ranchopower

Alot of tools can be used but this is one way of doing it, I have done so many times I just make a guess and tell the machine shop to cut such and such off the deck surface. Don't worry about the blue paint it is just a Ford 390

Javier

1gary

A typical(if there is one) four eyebrow piston's volume is in the range of -4 to 6 cc's.Now be sure you include if it is bored .030.

I would question those pistons in how they are going to balance out.If because your using them you have to have Mallory metal ,which is very expensive to the crank,the pistons get real expensive in a hurry.

I also suggest you don't build very much compression on them.

thebuffalo

The pistons are:
Piston Style Flat top, with four valve reliefs
Piston Material Hypereutectic aluminum
Compression Distance (in) 1.560 in.
Piston Head Volume (cc) +6.00cc

Bore is + 0.060, I'm not going for high compression at all, as one day I plan on adding low boost. So I need a depth checking tool, like the one in the picture by Ranchopower, I have to drive to Homosassa today so when I get back I'll stop and try to find one.

Can you explain more on this? I didn't really understand.

1gary

If those pistons are four eyebrow and 6cc they are -6cc because they are not adding to the volume.Does that make sense to you??.

Mallory metal is added by drilling the crank to add wt on difficult balancing jobs.The Mallory metal is very,very,expensive and cheaper pistons can be that far out of balance that they need the Mallory metal to balance it.It makes the deal on the pistons not worth it.

Keep on mind the ring gaps are different for a N/A,sprayed,turbo,super charged engine.And you don't want to push those pistons too far.

thebuffalo

Yeah actually that makes perfect sense, it would be lowering the compression by having the reliefs. But, that is the information on the pistons at summit, I copy and pasted it. I had the crank/pistons/rods and everything balanced already and the bottom end put together. Its pretty much an all stock setup, I still have 3.48" stroke, stock length rods, stock replacement eagle crank, only difference is a +.060 bore.

But still I need to know what head gasket I should get, should I just get a stock replacement one for the 4.060 bore? Aluminum heads make any difference? They are 190cc CNC Bowl Blended 2.02"/1.60"/64cc, I am pretty sure.