TA,

Thanks for clearing-up the compressibility aspect. I'm not sure, but I think I was either stoned or playing pool during that portion of my high school physics(nigh on 25 years ago).

My argument for the relevance of resistance comes from my assumption that any part of the gas flow that slows down will tend to slow down any other part of the flow that comes into contact with it. Also, there was my argument for the greater cooling effect of the duals(which due to their greater inside pipe surface should draw more heat away from the exposed gases) to the detriment of the gases velocity.

Unfortunately, I don't have a fully decked-out exhaust lab, so my assumptions remain just that. I have seen 'magazine tests' that go either way. Some have shown gains with an appropriately large single exhaust over a comparable(in inside area) dual setup. And I've seen other articles that go the other way when the duals were slightly larger(2.5" duals vs 3" single). At any rate, a slight change in methodology or (dare I say it)brand loyalty could easily reverse the results.

 

this post is cracking me up. the outsides of the pipe surface slow the exhaust down since there is more surface are on duals? lol who pulled that out of their ***... did any of you trolls think of the fact that any single setup has a Y pipe, which merges two exhaust pipes into 1, making a large bottleneck in the exhaust system that dual users dont have to contend with. now get off this post all you single exhaust trolls, i still wanna see pics of this dual setup and everytime i check this post its somebody arguing about singles being as good as duals or whatever, its starting to tick me off. thanks.

 

Any stationary surface does slow down fluid flow across it. That's not BS, it's fluid dynamics. Basically sounds like a head loss problem, with lots of variables. In any case, we don't know enough of the variables at this point to solve the problem mathematically. And yeah, pictures would be cool. Weren't they supposed to be up by now?

 

Welcome to the argument clinic.

Nobody was talking about the outside of the tubes. The fact is very true that a moving and a stationery body, fluid or gas will effect each other where they contact. But there are significant differences in these effects depending on the properties of the 2 bodies. It's called drag, and creates a boundary layer. Drag is greater between two solids, less between 2 fluids, less still between 2 gasses. You get the idea? Absolutely valid point.

Tri-Y headers have y's in them too, and they are not a significant restriction if designed properly, but can be a real problem if they go into a smaller diameter pipe.

Part of the reason that velocity falls from cooling is because the gas contracts as it cools. The same amount flows through a smaller space, or less back pressure if you will. But there is more "energy" in hot gas, so it will move faster.

Like Mike S said, we don't have all the variables here to really figure this out, and without a hot gas flow bench, we probably never will. But why are some of you guys so threatened by this conversation?

 

People become threatened by opposing ideas because they fail to make the distinction between themselves and their opinions.
As a result finding the proper answer becomes a lesser issue to who discovered the proper answer.

It's a trap we all fall in....who thinks they have a bad personality?

 

Notice that I never said you were wrong!!! I'm only pissed because you are not providing enough "evidence" to back up what your saying. Your also lacking in the theory department might I add. I would be fine with you proving that a single 3 is better than dual 2 1/4 and would accept it only if you could actually prove your point. I know that my duals will outperform a single anyday of the week. I don't need to prove that to anyone but myself. But YOU came on here making an argument that you had no way of proving. Thats like me trying to provide information as to why peaches have fuzz. Since I have no d**n clue on that subject I wouldn't considering argueing about it as you are doing with this one.

Sounds like your the "troll".

No I don't. Again I never said that you were wrong!!! Yes....you have TRIED to show some logic but FAILED in my opinion. I never said otherwise about dauls being better. Just because I have them doesn't mean that I think they're better. I just wanted some proof showing they aren't since you worship single 3s like a religion!! If singles flow better than more power to ya. I never said they didn't hence me not poviding proof!! DUH!!!

Yeah....That was me playing "I'm an a**hole". I admit it was spontaneous and uncalled for. No I'm not a moderator and I'm not insulted that someone had a differing opinion. You keep insinuating that I am disagree with you. I NEVER SAID YOU WERE WRONG!!!

I'm not trying to flame you or deliberately **** you off. I'm just trying to get you to prove what your saying. Your calculations are reasonable and somewhat valid but not in "real world" situations. Close....but no cigar.

 

That would be me!

 

AMEN!

 

How can you post a statement like:

"How about showing us a comparison in power between duals and single 3 using your "resistance method" 88. Thats what I thought.....YOU CAN'T."

or

"Your arguments have absolutely no credibility or proof!!!! You are making an argument up that is based only on BS info from your head. Again where the hell are you getting this information. There is no scientific proof or otherwise showing that the resistance is greater in duals and velocity is slower."

and then claim over and over, that you never said I was wrong?

How can you say:

"I never said otherwise about dauls being better. Just because I have them doesn't mean that I think they're better."

Yet earlier in the same post you stated: "I know that my duals will outperform a single anyday of the week."<biting-off a mighty big chunk there Bubba>.

This makes no sense to me unless you are making a conscious effort to portray yourself as a hypocrite.

And why would you expect me to provide you with any proof of what I've said, and then say repeatedly that you don't need to prove what you're saying? See what I mean about your double-standards? At the very least I tried to explain why I had made some assumptions and if you had paid any attention at all(that goes double for Unknown_Host) you might have clued-in enough to realize I never stated my assumptions as fact. Instead, you go into a frothing rant because someone has an opinion that differs from yours. Boo-effing-Hoo! And please, if you think my theory is lacking, at least have the cojones to show me where. I'm always willing and enthusiastic about learning something/anything that challenges what I think I know.

P.s. I'm not religious about any aspect of the exhaust system, but I do care a lot about reducing backpressure behind the collectors to the absolute practical minimum. Guess that's why I have a handbuilt 3.5" single system on my #1 IROC. If I knew of a practical way to put duals on it(I like the chassis low to the ground but I like to drive it regularly too), I might even give that a try.

 

But why are some of you guys so threatened by this conversation?

Maybe because we like to believe that the way we're going is the right way and what we own is the best available. Not to mention it's uncomfortable to think what you've come to believe may not be correct.

I saw a "Hot Rod Magazine" article recently where the author stated backpressure builds torque. To prove it he installed headers with 1.5" primaries on a 383! Then to prove his point, 1.75" headers were put on next and the motor lost a couple of lb/ft. Of course he forgot to mention that the carb was way too small for the motor, and the jets were maxed-out with the small pipes. Hence the motor went from slightly lean to very lean when the more efficient headers were installed. Et voila, peak torque dropped. Later on, after more mods, a larger carb(with larger jets) was installed and the motor gained both HP and Torque. But they never tried the larger headers with that combo(or at least they didn't mention it), I suspect because they didn't want to know what effect backpressure really has on torque.

 

HUH!! thats funny. I DON'T SEE WHERE I SAID YOU WERE WRONG MORON!!!!

How many times do I have to proof you wrong?? You obviously don't know how to interpret quotes! I never in previous posts stated that duals were better. I said and I quote "I know that my duals will outperform a single anyday of the week.....I don't need to prove that to anybody but myself."

LEARN TO F**KING READ!

You suck at argueing. Its just as simple as that.

No I don't see where you are coming from. Do I have to beat this into your accorn sized head?? SHOW ME PROOF. I never couterargued with you on this point BUT I only wanted proof and backing to what you said. Instead you whine like a 2 year who can't play with his barnie! I don't need "cojones." I also don't need to add to your theory. Its your claim so YOU DO THE RESEARCH.

And I'm the hypocrite. Yeah right!! And this after all the ranting and raving about how the single 3 is soooooo good.


OH!! That explains it. One of these guys that just reads about cars instead of working on em. But I won't even get into that.

 

man this post is still alive? :sillylol:

 

88irocs single 3.5" and you like have ground clearence on a lowered camaro? seems to me that the dual 2.25 would provide more ground clearence as you can tuck them up higher in the chasis the the 3.5" exhaust.... just my .02 worth

 

on a car designed for duals, the dual 2.25" would have more clearance. But our cars were not designed for duals so when you try to route it, it ends up pretty funky.

 

Actually 1986t/a, the factory pipes are mounted with a lot of clearance to the floor pan(both inside and outside the tunnel). So if you put the pipes a lot closer to the pan, you don't lose any ground clearance. Mufflex even says that their 4" system will clear. In fact, it was after a conversation with a rep from Mufflex that I decided to design, fab(except for the welding) and install my own system(have you chewed enough of your foot yet 4N? Don't worry you've got another one). The cat is the lowest part of the system and I've got about 4" under that(the car hasn't been drastically dropped(1" up front and 1.25" out back).

From what I've seen with a 2.5" dual, you either have the driver's side outside of the tunnel(the torque arm lives there), or you put both pipes on the passenger side with 1" of the lower pipe below the lowest point of the pan. So you end up giving away another 1" - 2.5" of clearance. Which is just a little too little for my tastes, what with some of the pavement not always being perfect around here. If something on the car does make contact, I'd prefer it be something that deflects(I've scraped the air deflector a few times) or something solid enough to take the hit(haven't hit the sfc's yet - fingies crossed). The exhaust doesn't fall under either of those two categories, so I prefer to keep it out of harm's way.

 

Hey everbody- proof here that duals make more HP...Ive yet to hear of another car set up like mine that can run the ET and MPH I ran last year. Not trying to brag, but it seems nobody has proven anything yet...just a bunch of numbers and theories. I am a firm believer in results, not guessing. PLUS...how many really fast cars making lots of HP do you see running single exhaust? CASE CLOSED.


Last years setup:
87 T/A 6-spd, 4.56 gear, stock rear end, stock driveshaft, completely factory stock suspension, street tires, 355 inch carbureted motor Naturally aspirated, 11.3:1 CR, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads in out of the box form, Lunati hydraulic roller .510/.525 lift 232/242 duration@.050, 3"dual exhaust, 3515 lbs weight. best ET 1/8 on street tires 8.15@90.5, best 1/4 12.46@115.1.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by twistedwedge
Hey everbody- proof here that duals make more HP...Ive yet to hear of another car set up like mine that can run the ET and MPH I ran last year. Not trying to brag, but it seems nobody has proven anything yet...just a bunch of numbers and theories. I am a firm believer in results, not guessing. PLUS...how many really fast cars making lots of HP do you see running single exhaust? CASE CLOSED.


Last years setup:
87 T/A 6-spd, 4.56 gear, stock rear end, stock driveshaft, completely factory stock suspension, street tires, 355 inch carbureted motor Naturally aspirated, 11.3:1 CR, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads in out of the box form, Lunati hydraulic roller .510/.525 lift 232/242 duration@.050, 3"dual exhaust, 3515 lbs weight. best ET 1/8 on street tires 8.15@90.5, best 1/4 12.46@115.1. [/QUOTE

AMEN

 

what about the scavenging effect of a good header? you take a good header and merge the collectors into a single pipe and it makes alot of turbulance that will really decrease the scavenging effect. running a dual set-up will keep a good scavenging effect even if it is 2 1/4" pipe. also that smaller pipe will have more velocity and keep the torque down low in th rpm where you need it in a street car. i myself have dual 2.5" pipes with only a single "s" mandrel bend in each pipe to clear the subframe. i would still take the duals over a single any day, ground clearance permitting. definately wouldn't try to put duals on a lowered car. but then again, i would never lower a car anyways.

 

Fast3rd,

Scavenging occurs when the negative pressure pulse, which follows an exiting exhaust gas plug, enters the collector, reverses direction and enters an adjacent primary tube and travels toward the cylinder connected to that tube. Bit more follows after that, but the point is, the y-pipe merge does not have an effect on the strength of the scavenging pulse unless there is sufficient backpressure to slow an exhaust gas plug as it enters the collector. That kind of backpressure may be present in a factory dual-cat setup as the catalytic converters are close enough to the collector and ahead of the y-pipe merge, though I couldn't say that for sure.

There is some speculation that the y-pipe may form a secondary scavenging effect, though no-one has proven that yet. If I could hazard a guess, I'd say the y-pipe has the effect of smoothing out the periods between exhaust plugs, which diminishes the pressure spikes that occur and allows the exiting plug a less restrictive path to the muffler. Kind of the same purpose as an "X" or "H" pipe on a dual exhaust setup.

As for lowering the car, aside from the lost ground clearance, it helps to lower the center of gravity. That in turn helps weight transfer during acceleration and decreases roll during cornering.

 

man 4njunk dont have a hernia dude

 

Iroc22, your a little late .

88iroc, both feet are still here

 

well i built my car for the 1/4 mile so i could care less about holding a turn faster than the posted speed limit anymore. and as far as the scavenging thing goes i've never heard anything to back up what you just said. all the tech articles i have read have been pointing to a dual set-up if at all possible. mine was possible and i ain't turnin back.

 

Thanks twisted wedge. You took the words out of my mouth. Unless you guys have either track times OR dyno sheets comparing a single to a dual, STOP YOUR WHINING. Lets see some REAL world results. Sitting there with a calculator isn't going to tell you d*ck. Everyone that reads a book or mag seems to be an expert. Put your egos in check and you may actually learn something.

BTW, i too would like to see pics in these damn topics as opposed to these petty arguments.

 

Wow, I have to be honest, I skipped most of this crap, but I have to agree to what someone said earlier, about the y-pipe and merging 2 exhaust gasses into it, that is obvisouly a bottle neck, making duals better. As whether it's worth converting and fabricating is another story, but let's see who else reads this.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself!! That somes up my whole argument.

 

88IROCs-please give it up already...you have not proven anything to all of us dual exhaust users, and all you seem to do is have time to post all this "information" which has no proof to back it up.

While I am outside in the garage busting my a$$ turning wrenches on my car trying to make it faster, and it seems that all you have time for is posting all these BS theories about flow vs. tube size, scaveging pulses, plugs, blah, blah, etc. etc.

Maybe if you spent more time working on your car and listening to all the fast people instead of being a pain in the a$$ you could learn something. Or maybe you dont do the work...must be nice to be able to afford that....

You discourage all of those who desire to make POWER, when all you want to do is just lower a car that wasnt intended to hang curves in the first place, and try to justify your argument b/c "dual pipes hang too low" PLEASE..... If you dont like the idea of duals, go and start a new thread "single exhaust faithful..satisfied with cornering and no straight line performance"


IM DONE WITH THIS

 

I've got pictures.... All I have to do is scan them and get them on here, which I will do ASAP.

Ground Clearance: The ground clearance is great. It's no lower than your stock exhaust. Haven't had a pipe scrap yet. Even though my g/f lives in a house w/a big curb that goes up to her drive way, and I have still to scrape them. As long as you put the headers in right, the collectors are welded on just right so things line up good.

Rattles: I have absolutely no rattles. You shouldn't have any if you use the hangers that come with the kit and the right headers. Plus, the pipes will NEVER rattle against eachother. BlueIroc, if your brother put this on, then how the heck did it rattle. The kit comes with some neat "2 clamps". They are 2 clamps welded together to keep the pipes from rattling against each other. I could maybe see it rattling on the underbody, but just adjust the hanger a little.

The only reason I made a mod AFTER the axle was for 2 reasons.
A) I wanted the pipes to come out opposite sides in the back. and B) I need some type of muffle, yet I wanted it loud so I put glasspacks in there.

SO WHAT if you people think a single 3" is better, everybody has their preference on what they like and this is a post for those who LIKE duals. Not a post on which is better. This is just a kit for the average Joe that doesn't have a lot of money or a buddy that owns a pipe bender. The kit clearly states that it's an application for an 82-89 Camaro w/305 c.i. Plus, most places have at least a 30 Day guarantee. If you don't like it, ship it back. I plan to scan the pics on Monday. I'm done. :lala:

 

Sorry you feel that way Twisted. The way I see it the Camaro has had a heritage of being a car that handles, since day one. Seem to recall something about Chevy coming out with a special motor - the 302 - and an RPO - Z28 -, which were designed to allow the Camaro to compete in the Trans-Am series. Must of just been some PR BS(ps. don't tell Roger Penske tho). And I guess that the Camaro's nickname, the Hugger, refers to the cars' innate cuteness and not how it handles in a corner. I suppose those fat swaybars, wide tires, and stiff springs and shocks the factory put on my IROCs were put there to improve straightline acceleration. Glad you straightened me out on that BS.

As for "all these BS theories about flow vs. tube size, scaveging pulses, plugs, blah, blah, etc. etc.", maybe you should talk to someone who really goes fast and see if they think proper exhaust tuning plays no part in making lots of power.

I have three vehicles licenced and registered. I work on all of them. And a lot of the work I do I learned by reading. Funny thing about reading though, it's an acquired skill. You have to attend grade school to acquire it.

"listening to all the fast people" hmmmm, you ever think about doing that yourself. Plenty of fast people on this Board. Some of them even running 'restrictive' single exhaust systems. Guess you could tell them a thing or two about fast. You speed demon you.

I've got nothing against someone who wants to modify their vehicle solely to improve straightline acceleration. Especially when it's done by an all-knowing ***-busting expert such as yourself. Perhaps someday I'll figure-out how to get to wherever I need to go without the bother of having to turn a corner. Then I'll rid myself of all that cornering crap my cars don't really need.

Perhaps you could start your own thread too:
"Dumbass Kindergarten Dropouts That Don't Wanna Hear About BS Crap We Can't Understand"

or even starts your own club:

*Backwards
*Imbeciles
'Gainst
*Offensive
*Technical
*Stuff

Peace

Out

 

88iroc thats hands down the funniest s**t I've ever read. I love the added touch with the BIGOTS at the end. ROTMFFLMAO!!!!!!

But we're still enemies

 

Ya, I's rollin on the floor myself when I read the line about "cars that weren't really meant to handle in the first place". Guess all those guys that were doing well road-racing Camaro's in the late-eighties/early-nineties didn't have a clue what their cars were really designed for. S'pose the factory guys were pretty stupid for designing the 1LE package to help those clueless roadracers too.

I think I'm about done arguin' with all of ya on this. If you're happy with what you've got,...Great. That's the way it should be. I'm happy with a large single pipe, not because I think it gives any real advantage over two smaller pipes(performance-wise) but, because it's the best compromise for my situation.

 

they are meant to handle and be fast, that is why people are excited about this kit halfwit. thirdgens arent relatively fast stock cars, and anything that can help is worth looking into. (leave the TTA's and l98's out, the majority dont have them) i put a 350HO in my car because i wanted it to be fast, yet not unstreetable. i should be done with the swap in 2 weeks. anyways, i have yet to hear a single exhaust system that sounds as good as its dual exhaust counterparts.

 

11's on a 3" single and mufflers

ditto that

 

Its funny how no matter who brings up the subject of dual exhaust on this board someone like 88iroc has to shoot it down.

I never quoted myself as an expert on anything.

Im sorry if you think that I am just some guy without an education...You dont even know me, nor do you have the right to insult my intelligence. Just because I cant post all this technical data doesnt mean Im illiterate. I dont have hours and hours of free time to sit at home and post on a message board. What free time I get is a luxury, I bust my *** every day. Im sure 90% of the members of this board are just everyday average Joes like myself.

Sure there is lots of guys on here making power with single exhaust, Ive got respect for them, but more can be made with duals. I know quite a few people who have fast cars.. 8 seconds and faster in the 1/4 mile.. Don't see anyone in here laying down 8's on single exhaust.. I build my motors going with what has worked, and learn from others. In the drag racing business you dont go off and try to be different, you go with combinations that have proven results.

You and I are in it from 2 totally opposite ends of the spectrum. You road race, I drag race. There is no happy medium between the two..

Im sure you are a walking information encyclopedia when it comes down to production numbers, flow equations, etc...:hail: if you are so sure about knowing everything, why are you so worried about proving someone elses "kindergarten" proof wrong? The day that someone makes more HP with single exhaust is the day I will respect this theory you have.

You say that your car has great cornering ability due to "fat swaybars, wide tires (you consider a 245/50/16 wide?) and stiff springs" well ,if you are using stock stuff I beg to differ. My car happens to be a GTA Trans Am with WS6 handling package, which is virtually identical to the IROC package. It handled like CRAP when I bought it.

I recall that the F-Body was started as GM's answer to the Mustang, which was pretty much a straight line performance machine (which I believe they referred to both as a muscle cars..) To me, the muscle car was a factory producion vehicle that you could drive home from the dealer, put slicks on and head to the track.(Yenko package,SS version, COPO, and the ZL-1 motor). The last 1st or 2nd gens Ive rode in were not by any means handling machines. Really, IMHO GM came out with the Corvette for handling, but what do I know.

If you are satisfied with what you have, dont discourage others who desire more.. To each his own.

Im sorry if I made you mad Einstien, seems like you have a chip on your shoulder about talking to people which you catergorize as "lower intelligence" Not everyone can understand all that BIG technical talk. Come on down here to earth where the majority of us are. Guess Ill go back to kindergarten now.

LATER

 

Here is some pix of my exhaust

 

another pic from the back

 

"You see things; and you say, "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say, "Why not?" "

"I've learned never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

"There is no satisfaction in hanging a man who does not object to it."

--- George Bernard Shaw

 

Ok, now what I dont get here is that that quote is basically says that you dont see a point in arguing because the other guy likes it. It seems to me that if you actually believed that you wouldnt have even posted. Just settle down for crying out loud.

Ben

 

> You say that your car has great cornering ability due to "fat
> swaybars, wide tires (you consider a 245/50/16 wide?) and stiff
> springs" well ,if you are using stock stuff I beg to differ. My car
> happens to be a GTA Trans Am with WS6 handling package,
> which is virtually identical to the IROC package. It handled like
> CRAP when I bought it.

As factory cars go, I'd say these tires are pretty wide. They are not lamborgini huge, but I would certainly consider them wide. But in regards to you're poor handling GTA; these cars were good handling cars from the factory. The problem is what happens after 15 years of use/abuse. A lot of the components that contribute to good handling get worn out. My first car was an 89 civic that was very well cared for and I guarantee you that it handled 10 times as well as my GTA did when I bought it. The GTA was beat up, but the civic was like new. However with two new cars, this wouldn't be the case.

> I recall that the F-Body was started as GM's answer to the
> Mustang, which was pretty much a straight line performance
> machine (which I believe they referred to both as a muscle cars..)
> To me, the muscle car was a factory producion vehicle that you
> could drive home from the dealer, put slicks on and head to the
> track.(Yenko package,SS version, COPO, and the ZL-1 motor). The
> last 1st or 2nd gens Ive rode in were not by any means handling
> machines. Really, IMHO GM came out with the Corvette for
> handling, but what do I know.

"Mustang, 30 Years of America's Pony Car"
"and the muscle car wars being at full throttle, Pontiac pulled a whole new performance pony car package out of their bag of tricks. That was the Trans Am"
"Trans-Am: The Pony Car Wars 1966-1971" (book title, reffering to the race series)

The Mustang is not a muscle car, nor is the Firebird or the Camaro. They are Pony cars. They sort of became muscle cars at the end of the 60s, but this was not how they were marketed originally. The Mustang was originally a chick car that could only have 289 power! The GTO was a muscle car that got a 389. The Pony cars are the subframed models that were ment to handle. These were the Mustangs, Firebirds, Camaros, 'Cudas, and Challengers (to name a few of the biggies). You mentioned the ss and the copo camaros. As I recall, the SS only got you a 396, and the copo was a 427. I think the ZL-1 was an aluminum 427 (aluminum as in light weight for handling). Wouldn't Chevrolet's all out drag racing muscle car come from the factory with a 454, as opposed to having to get a non factory car worked over by a dealership, or track down a little known and rare COPO? Other pony cars did come with the top engines, but I beleive that this was more for the horsepower wars as opposed to better implementing the original design concept. Muscle cars were the full framed vehicles that could get the top engines at any dealership. Muscle cars included the Chevelle, GTO, Charger, Torino, Road Runner, etc... The Chevelle could get you the 454 with less hassle than a COPO. The Charger could easily be gotten with a 440 or HEMI power. I cant speak for the 70's vettes, but as I understand it the handling of a 60's vette wasn't terribly exciting. A 'handling' car in the 60's does terribly by todays standards, but back then they were hot ****. Handling in this case is a relative term.

EDIT: FYI, all of this is IMHO, and your mileage may vary.

 

Momar,

Sorry you misinterpreted the quotes(there were 3 of them, not one long one) I threw out.

I'll break it down for ya.

Quote 1 - Why discount the possiblity of something you haven't tried. You could take this as a vote in favour of singles or duals - depending on which side of the fence you are hung-up on.

Quote 2 - Both 4N and Twisted came looking for a fight and not answers. By arguing with them, I basically gave them what they wanted. That is as much an indictment of my tactics as theirs.

Quote 3 - Twisted comes into 4N's and mine fight late, and the best he can do is vague insults, misinformed insinuations and a self-serving revision of history. I had to question myself as to why I bothered to try to hang him out to dry when he shows up at a lynching party with a noose already around his neck.

I'll give you one more quote by Shaw(in my sig) and leave you to figure-out the meaning on your own.

 

Uh, that quote I am supposed to figure out. You forgot to put it.

 

88irocs- apparently all you speak in is theory, and im tired of arguing with your scientific BS.

Seeing is beleiving, and Ive seen major improvement changing from single exhaust to duals.

My friend has a 94 z-28 with a lt-1 motor. Stock bottom end, stage 2 ported lt-1 heads and a small cam.

the first exhaust: full length headers, y-pipe and mufflex 4" exhaust. this netted a 8.26@86 mph 1/8th mile.

THEN

dual exhaust: dual 3" exhaust with no other mods. 1st pass out netted a 7.73@93.5 mph 1/8th mile.

theres my proof, where is yours?

Why dont you call up the NHRA and NASCAR and ask them why the top-fueler and winston cup cars arent using single exhaust?
maybe they can scientifically inform your ***...

"didnt someone tell you ice cream doesnt have bones?"
"the proof is in the pudding, you must be eatin grits"

I guess understanding that is all in theory...

:lala: :lala: :lala:

 

Can someone give me the Cliff's notes on this one?

 

Cliff's Notes:

Dual exhaust is cool
Single exhuast is better
Single exhaust sucks
Dual exhaust sucks
You suck
No You suck
no you
you

And that about sums it up.

 

Cliff's Notes for the Cliff's Notes:

A posters comments:
http://www.thewavplace.com/cartoon/babycry3.wav

The reply:
http://www.thewavplace.com/cartoon/babycry2.wav

Repeat ad infinitum

 

Rotflmmao!!!! Waaaaaaah!!

 

This is all a bunch of who cares!!!! do whatever you want its your car... If you think dual exhaust is better go ahead and try it. If you like your single 3 inch that looks like duals go for it.. i went with the flowmaster american thunder 3 inch that looks like duals... just what i wanted for my car its all a matter of preference

 

When you flip over air cleaners wouldn't you lose vaccum!
Just look at the position of the vaccum lines on let's say an LG4.

 

No, vacuum does not come from your airbox otherwise you couldnt use an open element.

Ben

 

You do realize that you're saying that your friend gained ~100 HP at the crank, and ~85HP at the rear wheels just by adding 1.2 square inches of area to the exhaust, right?

Either the Mufflex system is a total piece of ****, or you are so full of **** your eyes are brown. Which is it? :sillylol:

What mufflers did he run on the dual setup? Or did he run any? Did he happen to remove a dead rat from his single set up by taking it off? What gives?

OH YEA!!! You're also claiming that he's running ~470 at the crank by adding just a cam and porting the heads? I was born on a Thursday, but not LAST Thursday!!!

Ever think about going into politics?

AJ

 

In the latest GM High Tech Porformance magazine, there is a couple of 4th gen guys running a Borla cat back (with no cats). One is running 10.37 at 138 (Vortech t- trim, aftercooled 396) and the other guy 12.03 at 123 (cam and spray only). You make the call.