I didnt do them personally, these are for the Z32, we were and still are trying to get them made for our Z31's Check this out.

http://www.zcar.com/forums/read/3/1072316/1072316

 

How do sail panels sound for a first part?

 

I missed this pic the first time, thanks:


It looks like he unbolted/unglued the original glass and put the carbon in it's place. What I'm trying to figure out is where to find the bars, or would you be happy with the carbon part only, knowing that you would have to do the install on the top yourself?

 

How do you mount hardware or bolts (like the plastic caps) through the carbon fiber?

 

In the pic I posted (from the 200zx link, not my car), it looks like they just drilled holes and sunk the caps through it. Generally inserts and washers will save you if you are just clamping. If you actually want to put a structural mount in a carbon panel that's a bit more complicated. That generally involves a much thicker panel, an aluminum insert, or some special floating threaded insert assembly doodads (sort of hard to explain and I don't have a picture).

 

Im looking more along the lines of light weight parts for my car.

maybe a dash pad or a deck lid.

 

In the Z31 forums we were trying to make a set that would allow us to just replace the glass but not have the 2 'caps'???you see on the above CF T-Tops (Which is not on our cars), in which we have 2 sets, one with a large locking bar and one with a lot smaller locking bar (My 89's t-top bar is big compared to my buddies 85 TA t-top bar)

I think if they can be made to go inside the area of the old glass, we could just silicone around the edges to keep it from leaking, and keep it from needing any hardware install modifications.

or you could simply get two NEAR perfect sets of t-tops, so you may sell them to both t-top sets of people...haha, but you could completely replicate the glass as it is when removed from our t-top housing.

Let me know if that makes since.

 

I'm not sure I'm entirely following you so here's what I've got in my head:
Method 1) Make a carbon panel, put it on the outside of the glass. Make a second panel, put it on the inside of the glass. Clearly this is sort of silly.

Method 2) Remove the glass in the top, which is currently glued to the latching bar. It would have to be cut out. Take the carbon panel (which would have to be very close to the right thickness at the edges to seal) and glue it in where the glass used to be.

Method 2 requires the purchaser to sacrifice a set of t-tops in order to make the final assembly.

Also, it's a matter of taste I suppose but, is it important to have the black strip(between the t-top glass and window seal) to be covered? I think that makes both manufacture and assembly harder, but it's certainly possible.

 

Okay i understand what your saying, but that might make the CF (2 pieces separate from each other) a little flimsy, as there wont be any support on the inside between the 2 pieces (top and bottom), unless you added a structure bewteen the 2 pieces keeping it from bowing in?

Let me try to clarify.

Lets say the glass is .25" thick. Use 1/8" thick CF as the top piece, seen from outside and 1/8" sheetmetal (probably still a little thick for sheetmetal) seen from the inside (not tough, but stronger than plain CF weave as shown on the 300zx). This way we can have a nice structure or a structure at least, but still be able to lose weight.

Simply put, I want to be able to remove the CF (if something occured, like a bad seal or something) then I could reseal its area and re-install myself without any cutting needed (as you stated the glass would need to be cut from the t-top)

Hope this helps now.

 

Those T Tops look frikkin killer! I've got to get me a set!
btw, I do understand what you mean I H8 WWD. Imagine if You set something on the roof, in the middle of the CF, w/o any extra support, i.e Sheet Metal... It may flex, and crack w/o the extra there...
Ok, I may be confusing ppl, I'mma shut up now

 

No confusion..your good. Haha.

 

Are you talking about a case where the glass is left (a) or where the glass is removed (b)? If it's just a skin over/under the glass (the only way you could revert this) then strength isn't an issue as the glass will support it.

If you are talking about a case where the glass is removed, I would make one piece, not two separate ones. The center would be a thinner skin (strong enough to hold lets say a 5 lb hand sledge in the center) with a thicker outer section. I'll upload a drawing in a couple minutes. Also, if you had a solid 1/8 inch of carbon, that would be plenty strong. I know a guy that made shelves out of 3/16 inch baltic birch. He had one layer of 0.030" weave on each side, and he could prop one end up on a step and then stand in the middle.

Edit: Do you know what the 300zx carbon ttops cost? I was unable to find them online.

 

The red section is the t-top bar, which you would have to provide. The black things are the pins. The gray part is the area where the carbon/core material would be as thick as the current glass t-top. The blue places would be thinner. Not so thin that it would fall apart or anything, and you would be able to set a laptop or whatever on the roof. Thin enough however that it would be really light.

 

~ how much would a pair of T Tops cost? Does anyone know of a place I could get them made before the end of August?

 

Cost, are you talking glass or carbon? Glass you can get them on craigslist if you can find them ($20 to $200), Hawks ($75 per side, used) or for the perfectionist, T-topsOnline (Used $350/pair, new glass, mechanism and paint $800/pair).
If you're talking carbon, price not yet determined but I can totally make you a pair by August. I'm still trying to decide if I want to start with T-taps, sail panels, whatever but if you're legitimately interested let me know.

 

I was deff talkin CF. When I get the Money (By the end of next month, I'll have more than enough for any price you could throw at me) I'll let you know, hopefully you'll have your bearings by then.

 

I guess that's my project then. What sort of weight do you want them to hold installed? IE Ulta light but don't put stuff on them or more of put a laptop on them and have nothing happen? Also, I've got a spare set of t-tops to make the molds from. Mine fit a 91 RS camaro, big pin. Are your t-tops the same shape? This thread:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...flew-away.html
implies that they are, but I wanted to confirm it one more time.

 

I'd like to have it be able to withstand the weight of a large cat... becuase my F'ing neighbours can't seem to keep their cats in their own yard...
Well, I have a 91 Formula... I have no idea if the fact that they're 91 'maro tops will matter but, according to that thread you sent me, 85 Tops won't fit a 91 bird... If that even means anything... I could send you pics of my dimensions if you think it'd be a good idea...

 

I think the reason they don't fit is the pin/latching mechanism, not the shape of the top. Are yours large pin (thumb sized)? Maybe someone else can chime in about similarities/differences between t-tops?

 

Oh, alright, 10-4.
Yeah, Mine has 2 pins, on up front, one in back, and they're different sizes, but, Yeah, they're both roughly the size of a lil mans thumb...Hope this is ok...

 

Well my buddies 85 TA has a small pin system and my 89 IROC has a large pin. We couldn't interchange.

 

The pin system unbolts from the Ttop its self though. My question is does the glass slide in to place?

 

I wish I could help more... But I have no idea how T Tops are constructed...

 

This may help.

http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/...isher_ttop.htm

 

Sure did, Good Find! Thanks... Learn something new everyday, dontcha?

 

That looks similar to when I took my sets apart. There isn't the metal lip around the edge anymore and the aluminum brackets are now plastic and stamped steel but other than that they look the same. It should be noted that if you are really careful and the glue is dry enough you can get the weather stripping out without destroying it. On one of my sets I was successful with that effort, on the other set I completely destroyed the weather stripping removing it. Looking back you could probably just unscrew the entire assembly by putting holes through it in the correct two places to get to the screws underneath and then patch them with RTV. That of course assumes that you don't just put in new window seals.

 

While I love the idea of very strong & light parts using CF, on a car like the third gens, it essentially costs way too much for body parts. I certainly am not going to spend $1,500 for a CF hood if a fiberglass one is $400 and doesn't take all that much more weight off.

The one item I wouldn't hesitate to buy is a CF driveshaft as they are typically stronger and a lot lighter than an aluminum alloy one for only a decent amount more $.


My 2 cents

 

I will most likely replace all the hardware anyway on my t-tops including the seals. So that don't bother me, I just would like to either have it so I may send out my tops to you and have it installed, or you send the CF piece and I have it installed.

So whats your thoughts on getting this done? Now that we know the basic skeleton of a t-top.

By PST Drive shafts I was quoted around $850-$900 for a drive shaft in the camaro...this was 2 years ago IIRC. But was told it would weigh....3lbs. AWESOME. I would like to one day have one, but that's a while from now.

 

I'm going to take my spare set of t-tops apart today, ie cut the glass, or in this case lexan, from the support bar. I'll see what attachment will require and hopefully take some pictures in the process. I'm also trying to figure out what cost will be as I've got to make molds, core, so on. I already have the vacuum pump and some resin but I'll need to work breather cloth and such in. Right now it's likely that the outside will be smooth andthe inside will have a weave texture. I'll take a pic of an example of that soon.
The only similar product I've fonud with a price tag online is here:
http://composite-werkes.ecrater.com/...hp?pid=2894485

I'm aiming to go cheaper than that but it's also not going to be a loss on my end either. If I end up just making pannels and expecting you to attach them to your T-bar yourself I will certainly take that into account.

 

Alright, Ill wait for updates. Also, we need to know if the lexan tops differ from glass tops in size thickness, curvature? So in all we know if this can be interchangeable between each. I'm sure they are the same but its something that should be looked into.

I would LOVE the weave pattern inside, give the inside a texture of its own. I like that. Also will this be UV protected as well?

 

I think the lexan tops are very close in curvature to the glass ones. I say this because my car came with a lexan set and I replaced them with a glass set. Both seal. I did have to adjust the things on the car they secure to a little bit when I did the swap. Currently I am trying to get the plastic (actually acrylic not lexan) set I have apart. The glue is being a pain.

 

Here is a sample piece of carbon that I had around. It's a ~9"x12" sheet sitting the long way with one layer of weave (~0.030") on each side . I've propped the end up about 1" on a dowel rod, and I'm standing in the middle on one foot (the other foot is in the air). As you can see its not bending a lot. I don't know the thickness of that piece but it's between 1/8 and 1/4 inch. FYI I weigh right around 150 lb.

 

That looks good, and if its CF on each side it'll be stronger then. Cool. Cant wait to hear more updates, sounds like this will work out perfect.

 

Big happenings! I love it. That pic reassures me alot. I don't know of any Cat's I'll have to worry about now... Very nice.
to Paul_Huryk, A CF Driveshaft has been at the top of my Upgrade list for a Long time now... EBay has some good deals on them sometimes... But, I've never had enough money.

 

I'll get some more pictures up later of that part. I need to figure out how to do the core as I don't think the baltic birch plywood will conform nicely to the 3d curve. I'm also still trying to get the support bar separated from the panel, although I imagine that a little bit of heat will do the job. I'll be somewhat busy writing a report for a finite element study tomorrow so I might not be able to respond quite as quickly, then again I might. Anyways, in response to the above questions:
All that is required to UV protect this resin is a layer of clear coat. I will need to clear coat the inside anyways to cover the texture left by the layer that goes between the part and the breather cloth inside the vacuum bag. I'll also need to sand out any seams left at the edges of the mold so I'll be putting a clear coat on the entire part. If for some reason you want to put the layer of clear on the outside yourself, I can mask off the outer surface so that it does not get clear coated when I do the rest of it.

 

I would love some carbon T-tops!

 

honestly that jap hood looks like its a cowl hood with a the extractor treatment and a set of old trans am hood vents. I wouldn't pay a dime for that knowing I could make it myself with either a stock hood or a fiberglass cowl hood. Making a hood mold is easy if you have a extra hood you can modify to your hearts content and then wax the hell out of it and do a fiberglass over lay and then gel coat the mold and go to town on reproducing. I used that process for a couple things for rx7's, Fiero's, and little custom peices just in case I broke something.

 

Here are some more pictures of the sample that I was standing on the other day to show the weave texture. It's a bit beat up as I've been throwing it around (literally at times) for several years. I went ahead and measured it, the wood is in fact 1/8 inch not 3/16.

 

Here are some pictures as I try to get the T-tops apart. The parts that bolted on were easy, the lock cylinder was held in with some rivets that were easy to get out. The white stuff is flour. I got tired of the sticky surfaces resticking so I threw some flour on. If I can figure out something that makes the glue come out easily I'll be set.

 

But there is a difference between load weight & impact weight....

Just because it holds a gently set weight of 150 lbs, spread out over 2 feet (human feet), doesn't much much. Impacts are generally localized to only a few square inches, before it starts spreading the impact load out.

Don't get fooled by a simple stand-on test.

 

I was trying to make the point that it would hold a cat. I am not trying to say that it's going to be the equivalent of a piece of tempered glass. I could make it that strong but at that point it would weigh more and require a ton of carbon fiber. On a more minor point, one human foot, the other was in the air.

 

Sorry...I was thinking more of a CF strength test, in general, that just t-tops. Like a fender or nose, like some have suggested.

For a t-top, you'll be plenty safe, except for maybe tree limb. Then you probably have other storm issues to worry about anyways.

 

No problem. I think a nose would be better done with kevlar which has some give because many bumper issues are deflection dependent (drove 1 inch too far) rather than stress dependent.

 

As long as it shows CF inside the car. I dont want CF outide and wood inside (I know the wood wont be used due to it not being able to curve with the window). Textured CF would be AWESOME. I believe you stated this is what your doing.

So, why wouldnt heating up the glue help? Just wondering why you havent done so yet? Unless you have and its just being a PITA.

 

It will have carbon on both the inside and the outside. I'm still trying to decide what to put between those layers. I might use bending plywood if I can get/make some of that with the birch. It's pretty light and plenty strong. I've also worked with a number of foam based core materials that I've considered although honestly I think the wood looks better than the foam. Nomex is out due to price. As for the T-top disassembly, I have considered heat but I don't want to deform the acrylic. I did discover last night that the glue dissolves slowly in grain alcohol, which does not hurt the acrylic so I'll try that in a little bit today. I did manage to crack the acrylic panel so I'm now going to have to smooth that out in the mold (which shouldn't be hard).

Edit: Update

A bit of 95% lab ethanol and it came apart. Unfortunately I did crack the acrylic piece so I need to get that put back together. I did however get the beam off of the panel. Lots of that black goop crap still to be removed.

 

I forgot yours were acrylic. Oopsy. Sounds like everything is going pretty smooth though.

Also sounds like this will be A LOT easier for those with glass as we can just heat the glue up and scrape off.

Im so glad Im back here at TGO, everyday there is an update or at least something new to talk about.

P.S. Do you know what Marchs underdrive pulleys are made from bsides aluminum? They have a gray weave in them where the belt touches on the water pump pulley, part #4012? Just wondering because it looks...haha, cool. Also since I work at a trophy Shop I was thinking maybe we could get some of this (weave?) material and make us some custom bases for our pieces.

 

Yep, I have a glass pair too but those are staying on my car. They fit the same. I got the rest of the black sealant off of the bar, and I've got the panel cleaned up. I do have to plastic weld the piece I broke off back on. I'll fix the seam when I make the mold and you'll never be able to tell that it happened.

As for March's, the only picture I can find is here: http://www.marchperf.com/pg1.html
They say they are powder coated aluminum, and I can't see any weave.
If you have specific bases you want laminated with carbon I would consider that. Hiding the seam can be a pain at times though.

 

Sorry, my brother says its the way the metal was cut, and the coating is picking it up, making it 'seem' like it has a weave. Sorry.

Kind of like when Foose did the brushed metal look on the hood of that one car (sorry forget which one) then clear coated it to keep from rusting..

 

^ Makes sense...
I'm getting pretty excited about this guys. I'm learning quite a bit to! haha.
Yeah, Stephen, I don't think there's a whole lot of Impact force Happening with my T Tops that I have to worry about in here Florida, as there's no Hail, haha.
I do have to be concerned with the UV protection though... Clear coat is the best we have right now? Will that be alright?

 

Yep, clear coat is fine. If you would prefer to have a paint guy you know cover it with imron or something I can leave it uncleared. I've never had an issue with UV on stuff of mine although not much of it has been left outdoors without being inside a of a car where all it sees is heat.