lb9 GTA

You're right. With 2 HID projectors there would be too much light. But I'm not real big on HIDs so if it were me fabing them I'd use 2 equal halogen projectors. One being low beam and both being highbeam (I do realize it's easier for me to say since I'm not the one fabing them).

I think I was thrown off by the fact that the fog lights are smaller. It made it harder for me to notice the stagger.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

oh, i understand. I will tell you from experience that the halogen projectors are usually larger than the HID projectors. I ran the HELLA 60mm projector with my first setup (with an 35W HID kit) and the overall housing DIA/projector size was larger than my current real HID projector. I actually purchased the same HELLA 60mm projector and then found these HID projectors for about the same price, and with a smaller case DIA is the only reason i was able to fit the HID projector under the plexi cover. I would NOT have been able to do that with the halogen projectors. Hence why my first design had a "bug" eye look to it bc the projector would sit too low and the bumper would partially cut the beam off. Trying to fit 2 halogen projectors under the plexi covers would be a PITA esp if you keep the covers flat like stock and not modifying the bumper. Just food for thought.

Any reason you dont like HID projectors? The beam and cutoff are freakishly amazing. Even when compared the a good projector like a HELLA. They are essentially the same thing (halogen/HID projectors) besides being designed for different bulbs etc. I actually ran my hellas with the halogen bulbs for all of mockup to get the beam patterns correct and they looked nice, swapping out the bulbs for a 35w HID was nice bc i got alittle better light output but still had the cutoff. But real HID projectors and HIDs have a very sharp cutoff and alot more light output than halogens.

yea im not a fan of the cheap fog projectors I have... they were like 30$ and the reason is fitment (not alot of room there if your trying to stagger them) and cost. I will prob Never really use the fog projectors unless its that weird time (still light out but dark enough for me to put them on so u can see me in my black car lol) otherwise the HIDs will be on at night so i can light up the whollleeeee d@mn road

lb9 GTA

I just don't like HIDs in general. From a repair point of view, HIDs over coplicate the headlight system. The price and of parts shoud something malfunction is higher than a halogen system and are not as readaly available. The other reason is my own issues. I hate when people have overly bright headlights in the city (that's what street lights are for) and would hate to be a hipocrit. It doesn't really matter tho. I may nerver do this to my car. I like the flip up action and even the look of the car with the lights up even tho the car looses some attitude. I'm trying to keep my car relatively stock looking. Just a little cleaner. So this is a "what if" conversation for me. Something to consider and throw ideas around.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

understood. I CANT STAND ppl who throw HIDs into regular halogen headlights (not even halogen projectors) and they blind everyone and everything, not to mention they dont even light up the road. Point of the HID projector is that they dont blind u... someone with an HID projector behind you, you wouldnt even see the headlights really. Most of the time its a bunch of retards with imports that do it incorrectly. Putting in a HID kit without a real HID projector is illegal but so is installing HIDs in a car that originally didnt have them stock.

lb9 GTA

There are a LOT of import guys where I live (in my neighborhood V8s were out numbered by Nissan Skyline GTRs alone for a year or two) and have, for the most part, done the HID conversion with the stock housing well. It's the famly sedans, minivans, and SUV that have been butchered together blinding every one. And if they don't have the HID conversion, they drive around with their high beams on.

Sorry about taking the conversation away from your build.

NJP93

Could you tell us how exactly you wired these up? I'm new to HID but I'm planning on doing something like this on my car this summer.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

running a real HID projector (morimoto mini HID projectors) from theretrofitsource.com, and a real HID kit, I went with the DDM 55w ballasts. I used the "attached" diagram that i got from the retrofit source, since the morimoto mini projectors have selenoid operated "high beams". I originally tried to tie into the stock headlight switch but when i hit the highbeams the HIDs would shut off. I contacted the retrofit source and they told me its bc i needed a special resistor for the highbeam function.

Attached is the diagram that i used. I used the low beam positive power to the stock H4 bulb as the power source to trip the relay in the diagram. that way the headlights would work with the stock headlight switch and stock highbeam on the column. I got the resistors from radio shack for a few bucks. works beautifully. not to mention it should stop my stock headlight switch from heating up when i used my H4 100w/90w bulbs, since it uses the relay now as the power source which is straight from the batt. hope this helps.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Nice diagram, but what sizes are the diodes?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

quoted directly from email from retrofitsource.

I've provided a diagram for an H4 bi-xenon harness- so if you want to go that route and make your own you can actually ignore Diode A and B, then diode C you need a "1N5404" unit. Otherwise, we can provide a complete plug n play harness for $30, which is most likely even less than you'd pay putting it together after buying the parts required.

This schematic will take care of your issue though, where the HID's turn off on high beam mode- the diode is key!

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

the diodes are large and have thick leads coming off them (PITA to bend/connect to wire).
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062579

i also am not running the fuses for the ballasts. not worried about it since it works through the stock headlight wiring

NJP93

Thanks! The only thing I'm still confused on is the relay. Did you get it with a wiring harness from the retrofit source?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

how are you confused about the relay? no the relay is a generic 2$ bosch type relay. I took mine outa a remote starter kit, all it is, is a 40amp relay, doesnt matter if its a 4 or 5 pin. http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=3020762

It doesnt have to be a 8$ one, since they are plentaful and just about everywhere, u can get them from autozone/advance auto or any real electronics/parts store. I got the diagram from retrofit source, and they have a great tech line, they dont post anything online since almost everyone is doing a swap that there are no real guidlines for, so its all custom, which is why there tech line is so good. I will be doing buisness with them again as soon as they produce some smaller cheaper fog light projectors.

The retrofit source does sell a 30$ harness for the wiring of the HID kit, but it cost me almost 3$ to make my own since i had alot of 14gauge automotive wire and the relay. If you have no means/idea of how to run automotive wire then get the 30$ kit from them, it should be preassembled from them and ready to go, i just dont know how long or how it fits/runs.

http://www.theretrofitsource.com/pro...products_id=81

this is actually a really nice kit, and i would have purchased it if i wasnt a "do it yourself kinda guy" lol. looks like a plug and play and comes with everything it seems. My harness was hacked up when they stole my HIDs before so i was missing my headlight plugs so i would have had to modify this kit anyways, but if you still got your H4 headlight plugs then you should be good to go.

Johnnygeek

Nice Work!!
...now to go learn how to make me a set

How much time and material, got trashed in the learning process of bending/forming lexan and perhaps a hint at where to start?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I can make them no problem... its the quality that im not comfortable selling. Now if I made a nice mold and started vacuum forming then theybwould be much nicer.

Molding the plexi/lexan is pretty easy. I didn't mess any up when using a heat gun and straight edges. I used the homedepot lexan which was like 1/8" thick or so. My first vacuum molding attempt with 1/32" polyethelene that I got from an art store ended horrible. It was too thin and basically melted holes in it as it vacuum formed.

Honestly jump right in it. Unused small sheets of lexan like 11"x13" that were precut at homedepot. Cutting lexan takes time and skill... I can do it but its easier not too lol. Get a good heat gun and use the stock or a spare headlight cover and bend the lexan around it or mark the plexi by using the cover as a template.

bison999

any idea how the did this delete??

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

no idea but im sure it was something simular to what i did.

I just wanted to say that I had the car out the other night tuning and figuring out my ne 521 BBF engine swap and the lights are very very nice. They light up alot better than my 9005 halogen projectors... and they have a very sharp cutoff. I will try to post some pics if i get it out again at night some time soon.

birdman8992

i thought about this but it just looks to import style

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I've yet to see a good pop up headlight delete solution. Though the one pictured above is probably the best example I've seen yet.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

point of the delete was to solve a few of factory problems.

1.) headlight motors getting stuck up or down, even with new rebuilt motors.
2.) ugly look with the headlights up (my opinion but i dont like them, looks even worse without the TA ground effects.
3.) Stock Crappy headlight light output even with upgraded lenses and bulbs.
4.) Blowing H4 bulbs bc the headlight is upside down for water to get into it, problems sealing off the back of the headlights.
5.) the total weight of the whole flip up assembly.

I weighed the stock headlights and i think they are around 50lbs for both headlights including motors, brackets and headlgihts with covers. The HID projectors, ballasts, and covers weigh less than 5lbs. Not to mention never having to worry about headlgihts sticking up or down, and the light output is PHENOMENAL!

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

stock lights are 9.5 lbs each. maybe a little different for the 82-90 cars, since my 92 doors are heavier.

it owul be nice if sombody could do a complete, "kit" to remove the popups all together, but yeah, i have never seen one that looks right. Yours (customblackbird) is probably the best i have seen.

Adrenaline1

iTrader: (1)

If i could get a complete kit with everything setup as need and just have to worry about the mounting and paint id be interested. The finish on them doesnt have to be perfect imo. Ive wanted deletes for the flip ups since i got my firebird. lol

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

That would be hard to do since all cars arent the same. Little changes would cause issues. Like if the car was ever hit in the front etc. Mine was hit on the front pass corner from a deer and I replaced everything but the front bumper support (steel Beam) is bend backwards ever so slightly (about 1/2") but u couldnt tell by looking at it unless u do some measuring. This caused the pass headlight mount to be slightly different as its welded to that bumper support.

The lenses could be made tho.

Adrenaline1

iTrader: (1)

I suppose ill have to do some research and see if this is somethign i could actually do myself. lol

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I would like mine better if i made them through vacuum forming, but making the mold is a PITA and has to be perfect bc it will transfer all surface textures etc to the lense when made.

sikimk

what would it take for you to make these lenses for me?

86F.BiRD

A fabrication of the corvette lights into the firebird would be nice

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Would really depend on how many ppl were interested and how much ppl are willing to spend. This winter I'm going to design new lenses so they can be done when I'm ready to paint my car this winter/spring. Bc u have to paint the lenses if u Dnt have a gloss finish (mine will be a semi gloss hot rod black) when I do it this time I'm going to spend the
Time and vacuum form it so I can pop them out.

Problem with the Vette lenses is the curved lense doesn't match the firebirds hard lines.

Gumby

I know for a fact, if you got the mold down right to spit them out for firebirds, no catalog would turn down listing them.

most of the classic catalogs, are full of small biz 1 off parts no one else will make. And you don't have to have allot of stock.

I still want some.

Even better would be one giant 1 piece cover, that filled the whole bumper cut out for the lights, like on the night rider, but was also the clear light bucket.

Gumby

Id like the use the lights with the flapper inside for low high, buddy used one on a bike, made it look like an eye ball.

kad5118

How has your progress been with the new lights?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I haven't done much with the lights. Basically just moved one lense and a ballast. I did just install a huge oil cooler and adapter plate so I can run a cooler and an electric oil temp gauge. I also fabricated some aluminum engine bay panels to clean the car up a bit. I also painted the whole car hot rod black but it's got some tiger striping ugh lol oh well!

Been workin on my new toy alot which is a 1990 Suzuki 600 which I've modded alot in the last 4 months that I've had it.

I plan on getting the headlights all done prob by march. I'm going to get rid of my hand made harness and going to put in a HID harness I got with my new ballasts etc.

T/Aperformance

It was this thread that made me want to try and do my own, but I wanted two lights per side, I still have to do my covers, I ended up using headlight deletes for a 240 sx, and converting them to fit my T/A ,

T/Aperformance

A few more Pics, So far only have a $100, in these They are not projector head lights but they work great,

Gumby

I think those could be used as the covers, depending on how goofy it looked with the lights stickin up off the "body"

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

It's hard to see how they look. But a cover made for over them would look better. But as its been state they are non projector lenses so I'm not sure on the quality of light from them.

Get some better pics of them installed and then of some with the light output.

T/Aperformance

Sorry I can not take better pics, these where taken with my computers web cam and it doesn't take good stills , You are right covers will make them look better, And I will be making them soon,
The light out put is just a bit better then the factory lights, plus it has those glow rings around each light, But I do not get to use my lights that often, I don't like to take her out at night to often,

sikass92gta

sorry not on subject but what is the offset and size of your back wheels and tires dont want to copy just want something in the same style offset

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Manufacturer: AmericanMuscle Wheels
Style: FR500
Size: 17x10.5
Finish: Anthracite
Placement: Rear Only
Centercap Size: Large (2-1/2")
Back Spacing: 6.8" (174mm)
Offset: +27mm (1.10")
Bolt Pattern: 5x4.5" (5x114.3mm)
Weight: 24.1 lbs
Material: Aluminum Lip Size : 5"
Best Tire : 315/35-17

They dont look bad for an off the shelf rim esp with a custom modded stock ford 8.8 rear thats been stuffed into a 3rd gen lol. I wouldn't like them if they stuck out any more... I think they follow the rear quarters quite nicely.

sikass92gta

That's the look I wanted the offset is awesome thanks for your help on that

rb89gta

I am working on an idea ... will let ya know if/ how it works out

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I imagine that the originally light assembly was removed, and then they fabbed up a mount for the lights, and formed some clear acrylic for the light covers. May have needed some mods to the core support. But perhaps you'll have an answer. I've emailed Polly before about his car and he's usually answered. If he responds I'll post the response with his permission.

Personally, its my favorite pop-up delete out there. I know Mike92Firebird did a pop-up delete, I don't think he modded his core support.

Mike92Firebird

iTrader: (3)

Yes sir! I did the pop-up delete and managed to mount my headlight doors using a variety of "L" shaped brackets.

tunatrky

I really like this conversion. I see what you mean about being a prototype. The finish doesn't look perfectly smooth and the edges can be a bit deformed. But for what you did with the vacuum method, it looks great.

Tex WS6

Good work. Like the look, reduced complexity and improved reliability accomplished here. I followed "Red" the girl's example but built new platforms for lights rather than ruin my old housing. Found by reading and testing that the lights, although giving a nice modern and clean look were not that desirable or legal. After looking at LED options found the Audi Matrix smart headlight article.
Because of LED reading, I have been thinking about using about 5 individually aimed LED's and lens, per side, to create an optimum light pattern. My purpose for writing this is not to Hijack this but expand, for discussion, an excellent blog.
And I need a lot of help with optics. Tex WS6

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I would look into the new Acura headlights. Basically uses 8 or 10 LEDs top and bottom in 4 or 5 separate lense groups for a amazing light pattern. Ive seen them for sale used at TRS once.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

Guys I want more light output so to get more room I'm back to popups. I basically got 4 H1 bixenon cheapo projectors and built a steel bracket that mounts the projectors into the modified firebird headlight bucket. The projectors are not really adjustable But can be if take off by using shims etc. The up and down adjustment will be with the adjustment of the actual headlight motor stop (how much the headlight pops up)… left and right should not be an issue as they are pointed out in the same direction as stock or straight ahead. Each headlight gets 2 projectors, outer projectors run a 8K bulb and a 55W HID kit, inner projectors get a 6K and 35w HID kit. Both sets of projectors get a dedicated bixenon HID harness controller for stock operation of low and high beams. The Projectors are then aimed and leveled close to each others cutoffs. So there is a total of 4 projectors (low and high function) with a 55w and 35w HID kit. Then I have the stock TA fog lights which I have retrofitted with new Clear glass lenses and reflector bowls with a 6K H3 35W HID kit. So basically Im looking at 4 HID projectors and HID fog lights… That ALOT OF LIGHT!!!

Anyways… here are some pics of the install. Ive only gotten 1 headlight basically finished and mocked up on the pass side. THe other headlight is done (projector bracket and projectors installed but need to modify the shrouds and epoxy them together). I also need to cut out the stock headlight bucket on the drive side. I'm in the process of modifying the stock headlight lense shrouds and seeing if I like them… Im not a huge fan currently. Might just fab up some side covers as I think they look bada$$ in their bare frames. I like the projectors even better without the shrouds but the light escaping around the projector openings is annoying. These are basically just teaser shots so you can see what I'm up to. I am mocking these up with the stock 87 formula bumper bungeed in place to check my projector lense to bumper clearances (which I have about 1/4"). I still need to do some prep work on the TA bumper but will then mount the fogs up and such. The headlights prob only pop up about 1/2 the total height of the stockers so it should look less "dumb" hopefully lol.

Anyways sorry for the long text but here are some pics. Thinking I will paint the chrome shrouds black or silver to match the cars soon to be new paint color. Thinking of a medium graphite metallic silver as new paint color.

Tex WS6

Thanks custom blackbird
The Acura lights look good. If they will fit in the space next to park lights with light lids closed , they will replace the pontiac logo and it's bezel. Tex WS6

nathan44

That was a nice conversion you had goin blackbird. I'm working on an idea myself because of the no working 80s disco flip lights nitemare. They just hurt the aerodynamics of the car imho. I'm working on a covered 4x LED setup using brackets/ relays/ factory switch. The positioning is critical and I definitely don't want it complex. I've been doing more thinking than grabbing but it just might work. I don't like wraiths because it's not exactly street legal and with ANY intricate fab work, a rock chip on freeway can create a bad situation. Two pairs of these lights mounted to a home depot bracket, using Texan covers

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00EA0...9ARDX6P02E66RY

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

PM replied too and thanks for the compliments.

The 4" LED cubes are not really a great idea as even in the "spot" configuration they throw a lot lot light everywhere, its just more concentrated than a "flood" setup. This would be a nightmare to keep out of the eyes of everyone and they do not have a sharp cutoff. While I would recommend them in a fog light setup (perhaps depending on how much light they shoot everywhere) but I think 4" is def too tall for the OEM TA fog light openings. They might work nicely in the front bumper cutout of a camaro or something. These 4" cube lights are very popular in the truck world in offloading bc of there compact size and light output while drawing little current.

BlackTopKing

iTrader: (1)

I really like where this is going, awesome job. So far the Poly style is my favorite but still...great work!