Since buying my Formula, I have been thinking a lot about the slew of different model/engine/trim options available from 82-92...and it seems like everyone's car seems to fall into 1 of 4 groups in terms of desireability, as well as future value...

Class A: At the top of the list, you gotta have TTAs, followed closely by IROC and T/A convertibles. Also included in this group would be cars that had the "right" options, or were 1st/last year models...G92 305 and 350 cars, '85 TPI or '90 IROCs, '91-'92 GTAs, 15th T/As, '83 L69s etc. I'd say pretty much anything with a factory 350 would fall into this category too.

Class B: These would have to be the far-more-common V8 cars many of us have. LB9/automatic Formulas, T/As, IROCs. Non G92 5 speed cars. V8 convertibles. '91-'92 Z28s. Some may even include TBI 5 speed IROCs, Formulas and T/As in this list...to me, these would be somewhat of a distinct step down from TPI cars.

Class C: Any other V8 car. LG4 Z28s/Formulas/T/As, TBI RSs and Firebird coupes, V6 convertibles, LG4 Sport Coupes and Firebird coupes.

Class D: Anything with a V6 that isn't a convertible. Even odd-ball H.O. S/Es I would place in this category...yes, they are unique, but I doubt in the future there will be a market for them.

So what does everyone think?? This is NOT meant to flame anyone's car...although I have the feeling I may **** off some here. Oh well I am curious to see what people think about the future desireabilty of certain third gens, or even their own for that matter. And yes, I know I am ignoring the super-low-mile oddballs like the 2,719 mile '86 IROC. Technically using my listing, it would be a Class B, but I think many of us agree it would be more desireable than many A list cars

 

I guess if I had known what I know now I would have known to wait about 4 months and got the 1987 350 IROC.

Since I don't drive it, I will just be glad I have something.

Your list looks OK to a class B type person.

I still am blowing exhaust on you though, but at least its just the peanuts and no harm will come.

Chet

 

Chet,

Somehow I knew you'd be one of the first to respond. And as I said, I'd take your car any day of the week, 350 or no I have a new-found respect for TPI/autos since I bought mine...

The only problem with your car? I'd drive it probably 2-3k per year...I don't think I'd have the restraint to leave it in the garage!!

 

I like your list.

But where does my car fall, A or B. I've got one of the two years that the G92 package option was available with a 305 TPi automatic.

According to the Camaro technical database, in 87 and 88 the G92 option required:

5.0 TPi
Limited slip rear, 3.23 10-bolt with an automatic
rear disc brakes
engine oil cooler

I also have the aluminum spare.

Prior to 87 G92 was a seprate option, and could be combined with many other options, after 88 G92 was only available with 305 5-speed or 350's. Also available w/350' in 88.

 

Your list is fine with me - it puts me in Class A. But I'd rather have a fine example of a Class B than a beater Class A.

Also, a low-mile 1LE IROC would clearly be Class A+.

 

Any 1LE should be Class A. T/A Verts I would say are more desirable than the IROC ones. There were way more IROC verts made. Factory Z28 verts are really rare too.

 

Ive got a 1985 IROC Z Camaro with the 305 TPI. It also has 3.42 gears and 4 Wheel disc brakes. Do u think that is a rare car to have. Do u think that is in ur class A thirdgen list.

http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/id/56424

 

iroc_cragg,
I'd say that SILVER is at least a B+
Some of the rare color combos might be good for a letter upgrade

Just my .02

 

Hey the grading scale is cool I figured out my grade point average and I have a 3.50. I guess I may get to be on the honor roll. The grades make since and is cool that some one posted them.
Later, Mr. Honor Student

 

That Silver IROC looks stunning.

However, I think you chaps over the pond get a little too extreme over the options. (i.e. Especially as I have a "low grade 305 RS". ) You really need to explore your life values a little.

p.s. Any V8 in the Uk kicks most ***. So I'm not really bothered!

 

Well, I like my car. 1984 Camaro Sport Coupe, 305 auto. Needs work. I like it because, well, it's a Camaro, and because there are not a lot of them around here. I have seen a few thirdgens driving around, in various states of repair, but ALL of them had one thing in common: they all had the "solid" nose, as opposed to the nose with three cutouts like I have. Also, i can mod to my heart's content and everyone on the street will say, "hey, it's only a base model camaro".


Of course, the fact that I got it for FREE helps a lot....

 

Yeah, I have an "A" car Not to mention that I have every option available except CD for the way my car was ordered. It's even one of the 4 25 aniiversary Firebird colors and it has the SLP package I'm special

You should have a Super A List with 91 & 92 Firehawks and 91 & 92 T/A 1LE's, can you tell I like the 91-92's

 

I like the categorys; especially since both my cars fall in it. I think you did a damn good job comprising that list. I have to agree as with about the TTA. The baddest of the baddest 3rd Gens produced!

~~J~~

 

Hey Jason, how 'bout the H.O. Z28's and Trans Am's? Particularly the '84 model year when so many were made. I'm guessing class B, right?

 

what would you classify mine as...1992 25th anniversary heritage...polo green with gold stripes....and YES thats the ORIGINAL paint....

DABE

 

It would come down to the engine in your case.

 

Well i've made a nice 2-letter jump up that scale in the past year. Before i had an '87 LG4 formula that was slow as hell and had NO options. Now i have my GTA with an L98 and all the bells and whistles. Oh yeah and i can't forget my "other" car....

 

If I read your list correctly, and since it's all opinion anyway...

I agree with the first/last year idea, but for the other years if it is powered by a 305 it would be a "B". The obvious exception would be the 1LE which would be an auto A.

We all know for a fact most of us (as car enthusiasts) would much rather have an original 350 car than a 305. This is not going to apply to the person who wants or prefers a stick (like myself) at the expense of the 350. When I bought my car new I would have preferred the 350, but absolutely did not want the auto trany, so I bought a 305 G92 car. So, it was really my second choice.

Another difference, I would include the 350-powered 91-92 Z-28 in the A list. They are simply one of the most desired of the normal cars available.

TBI anything would rate an automatic B or less with me.

 

Its been very interesting to read the responses...glad I'm not getting flamed So to answer questions...

DABE,
I'd say a definite B. I LOVE that paint scheme. All bias aside though, I would say a 25th RS V8 would be a solid B...easily as desireable as a TPI 305 IROC or GTA, for someone who did not mind having an annivesary car over TPI. I fall into this category

David M,
I would say a category B for your car as well. Sorry I ignored a few combos here with my list You got the best combo for your year, which is good...but not as rare as an '83...some people love L69s, some would rather have a later TPI. Personally, I think L69s are a great engine...I'd say its a B.

iroc_cragg,
A all the way! First year IROC with TPI...can't beat that as far as I'm concerned If it has t-tops, thats even better!

labrat,
I just learned something new about G92!! Didn't know '87 autos could have it. Your car? Hmmm...how about a B+?? Its definitely a step up over a ho-hum, 2.73 normal 305 TPI like my Formula, but not quite a 350 on the desireability scale. An awesome ride none the less

And yes, I also agree the Firehawks and the 1LEs should be an A+...when comprising this list, I knew I'd forget a few, and I wasn't really thinking about the "factory specials" to be honest!

Keep the responses coming...

 

So G92 305 cars fall where??? How about a factory yellow 87 Iroc with G92, but it is a 305 car?? How about a 82 Pace Car??

T

 

A G92 305 5 speed I would consider a class A car...many (like me!) prefer a 5 speed over an automatic, and have no desire to swap out the original 305 for a 350. So I would say a G92 5 speed is an A...a G92 automatic to me is not the same caliber. If I wanted an automatic, I'd buy a 350, right?? Class B to B+ IMO, like I said above. Yellow definitely helps though!! My favorite third gen PERIOD would be a yellow TPI...in '85 form

Oh yeah...an '82 Pace Car would be a class A too...any real special editions should be considered a class A. Glad I ain't getting flamed here!! I wanted this to be a fun post...

 

I guess I'm a B+ now? Originally 90 RS Convertible (1/729 built)equipped with 305 & 700R4. Since then I've upgraded to G92 suspension (3.45 9-bolt posi disc rear) and WC-T5. Lon

 

No flame but I disagree. If GM had made the 350 available with the T-5, how many people would have still purchased it with a 305? Few I bet. The engine is still the more important/desirable option thusly it would rate the A. The TPI 305 was a compromise to get the 5-speed and since we are using +'s, suppose it might come in a B+...

 

Cool, I made the A list!

 

85 T/A WS6,

That sure is a really nice looking (A) Trans Am.

I thought that 85 Trans Am come with a different type wing or maybe they came on them depending how you optioned the car.

Chet

 

Chet,

The rear decklid spoiler (D80) you see was standard on the 85 TA's and optional on the Firebird and Firebird S/E

If you chose the W51 (Firebirds only, special black appearance group) the D80 is included.

The aero wing spoiler (D81) was introduced as an option for the first time on T/A's in 1985. Considering the problems that the aero encountered, Im glad I have the D80


Don

 

Lounge Lizard,

I understand entirely what you are saying, but I respectfully disagree. True, the 305 was a compromise to get the 5 speed. So what? Where is it written that the engine is MORE desireable than the transmission choice? I can see your point, and maybe I am in the minority...

But to me, a manual transmission is the essence of a performance car. I would not have even considered my own Z28 if it had been an automatic. After not driving the Z28 since last November, I took it out of storage on Friday, and grinned from ear to ear rowing it through the gears again. Before I owned a manual, I always envisioned my third gen of choice to be a 350...not anymore though. I'd be willing to bet you many out there prefer a manual as well. Maybe the 305 was a "compromise" to some to get the manual. But so what? Its still the only way you could get a manual. And when you consider the performance of a 305 5 speed to be near identical to a 350, I don't see it as much of a compromise at all...

Keep the opinions coming!

 

Well seeing as Jason E is a good friend of mine I can attest to the fact he always swore 350 or At before he owned a 6spd. Now try and get him out of it. Personally I would never have a AT Fbody (except for a B4C) and never will. I absolutely can not stand AT and is the one thing I hate about my Caddy. There are many of use out there that will not buy a AT no matter what motor was under the hood. If my 83 L69 was a AT I would not have touched the car (Yes I know there was no AT 83 L69) but just as example. A simmilar performace 305 5spd or 350 At??? Hummm Without consideration it's a 305 I would pick the stick

 

Interesting points of view, so I will make the choice more extreme. Let's say you could only get the five speed with the 2.8 and the V8 option only came with the AT. Would you still have chosen the manual trans car? Now I know that this isn't really quite the same, but it still makes my point I said a little ways up this thread, that the engine is the more important option and that trans choice is really a compromise.

Let's look at it another way. If given the choice would you purchase the LB9, 5 speed combo or the L98 (B2L) with 5 speed if it had existed? Again I feel that few LB9s would have been ordered if given the 5 speed with B2L option.

Lastly I'm also talking desireability/moddability. We all know the "moddability" is less with the 305 because of the narrow bore which limits the choice of cylinder heads. This is a major aggravation to most modders because many consider the cylinder heads as the single most important mod to be made.

Your turn.

 

And I shall accept

First off, obviously I would choose the 305 TBI...but here's one for ya. How much difference is there between a 305 TBI and a 2.8??? Huge, right?? Now, apply that same logic to the 305 TPI 5 speed vs 350 TPI...there is so LITTLE difference, it isn't even funny. I like your logic, but I'm comparing an apple to an apple, not an apple to a rotten apple

If given the choice, of course I would have chosen a 350 5 speed. But the point is, there WAS NO CHOICE. Therefore, given what was available, I believe the 305 TPI 5 speed combo is every bit as desireable to many of us. I am not part of the modding crowd...I don't care if a 350 responds better to mods. I realize many of you do however...

But the point of this was to evaluate what will be desireable down the road as a FACTORY equipped car. Using your logic, I could say that neither one is desireable, because neither engine is a big block. And if a BB was available, then I'm sure many here would've gotten that, right??

I see your point...I hope you see mine. I agree that the 305 was a compromise to get the 5 speed, but compromise or not, it was still the only way to get one...period. It isn't like I'm playing favorites because I own one...hell, my Formula is inferior to both of these combos!!

But mark my words, I believe when these cars do get going on the collector market in another 10 years or so, the 305 5 speed will make its mark...

Ball back to you

 

I thought this was about desireability? If so then years down the road do people want modded cars that probably have the wrong motor, or a nice original? Seeing as I have a 83 L69 I can say original. The only people that are going to say that a stock 305 is worthless are going to be 1) 350 owners who swear that anything besides a 350 is garbage 2)has never driven a L69 3) Someone who does not how to drive a stick. I loved driving my L69(even when it was disgusting) the car was alot of fun. Now this is coming from a owner of a LS1. How many stock 350s can say they come close performance wise to a LS1? My point is that if a "305" is able to keep a power loving LS1 owner happy how much better is a 350? As it is when people ask me what I have under the hood and I tell them it's a 346 they say "oh 346 (with a chuckle) my 350 can beat that." The 350 is not the best and only motor out there. The 305 was a very good option (since it was the only one available with a 5spd)

 

Well, on the top of my list of future cars to buy is a low mile black 15th anniversary '84 T/A HO w/ T-tops. Second would have to be a '69 T/A...

But none of those are daily drivers... and I need a different daily driver first... possibly a 5th gen Prelude (don't hurt me!) I would probably do Intake + Headers... Maybe a 75 Shot of N20. Something with respectable mileage and [a little] pep.

Gonna be a couple years before my second car though.

 

Generations with Preludes Who cares!!! Why would you want to go with a rice burning POS that has to have N2O to go anywhere and have that pissed off bumble bee sound I will stick with my V8 northstar as a driver and get as good as milage as you

 

Woo-hoo! I made the A- list! Time for me to go back to my D-list job making my W-list hourly wage.......

 

Points well made Jason and orange. I believe the desireability will change as the years go by and the more original and more rare combinations will go up in value. The heavily modded cars are obviously prone to be suspect for really being ragged on, and thusly less desireable, but that is something that might be more of a case by case thing. We only need to look back to the first gen Z's to see how the trend will go. All numbers matching IROCs, Z-28s will fetch much more than RSs or SCs, etc. Within the IROCs and Z-28s the 350 powered will be more sought after. The G92 LB9s more desired of the LB9s and the pecking order will follow. Certain extreme rare combinations will become the rage. Counterfit Z's will start springing up and the great circle will start all over. I personally don't have any real use of numbers matching because I drive for performance and not for a trophy at a car show.


The only problem I have is with this statement...
This might apply to some, but I for one run completely to the contrary.

1)My 90 was a G92 5-speed LB9. I don't swear that the 305 is garbage, but in light of the available B2L 350, GM made a major mistake in not getting a 5-speed behind the superior engine. 2) I purchased an L69-powered, 5-speed '84 Z-28 new in Dec of '83. It had the custom conteur interior and 4 wheel disc brakes. I liked the car, but it was not as nice as my '90, which I also bought new. 3) Been driving a stick since the very early 70's. The only thing I've ever owned that had an AT was an 80's Blazer and Safari van.

To orange specifically...We also have a 6-speed, '00 SS Vert and I could not in any way compare it to my old '84. I would take the '00 any day before the L69, no comparo, but that's just my opinion.

 

what about mine?

1987 305 TPI 5 speed manual

posi rear w/ 10 bolt 3.23's

oil cooler.

does this make me a B+??

 

the 92 Z28 heritage cars should be A but thats just me i guess i LOVE them...hehe

and dude get those wheels off that IROC.....NOW!



later :P

chris

 

Good discussion...

For the record, I've owned four 3rd Gens over the years:

1985 T/A LG4 AT
1986 T/A LB9 AT (Ran like H*** for a peanut!)
1990 Formula 350 L98 AT (Slow for a 350)
1989 Formula LB9 G92 5-speed (Current Car)

For me, the 89 G92 has been the most enjoyable purely because of the manual trans. This says a lot because it was in the worst shape by far when I bought it as the others were essentially very low-mileage cars under two years old when purchased. I've liked them all, just like shifting gears myself the best. If I ever do get a fifth 3rd Gen, it will be another AT however.

TTA baby! (I've also owned an 87 GN and have experienced the power & glory of the Dark Side!)

 

When I drove mine it sure seemed like it had more than 190 hp.
It even sounds better than a LG4 cammed motor. Is it a given that all LB9 motors for 1986 had the LG4 cam.

I am wondering at what point did they do they switch back to the more highly lifted cam?

So the first LB9 for 1987 got the better Cam?

Chet

 

In 85 all TPI 305's got the good cam and automatics. I had an 85 Z28 with this combo.

In 86 all tpi 305's got the smaller cam and automatics.

In 87 tpi 305 automatics got the small cam, and 305 5 pseeds got the good cam. I now have an 87 Iroc, makes 25hp less than the 85 z28 I had, go figure. Frankley I don't notice much of a difference.

All the rest of the years are like 87 except 90 where i think you would get the small cam and a 5 speed if you didn't order G92.

 

Damn, my car is a D................and in the condition its in it probably gets an F. Oh well, at least I own a third gen :lala:

 

This is a topic of great debate around here. All I will say is that my car was a VERY late production 86 T/A. It was a loaded WS6 and came from the factory with the black/grey cross-laced 16" wheels predominately found on 87-92 T/As & GTAs. I purchased it from the original owner who was a 50ish year-old lady that had racked up under 14k miles on it in around two years. With nothing more than a Flowmaster muffler, it could hold it's own against my buddy's 87 LB9 AT IROC and his brother's 86 5.0L Mustang LX. It was a cool car and I wish that I had it back. Color combo was solid black with a black & grey interior similar to a Grand National. I've never seen another like it. It would be a perfect candidate for a TTA conversion now.

 

i have a 1991 firebird formula, 350 tpi, automatic 700r4, t-tops (lexan), gta black cross laced rims, 3.23 posi, 4 way disk brakes.
The car is totally orginal and has 66,000 miles. I have a k&n air filter, air foil, and aluminum driveshaft thats the only mods. The exterior is black and interior is tan cloth, it has power windows, locks, and mirrors. It has the cool door cupholders, also cruise control and lights on the review mirror. I love my car alot only paid $3500 out of my pocket. So i guess i made the A list.

 

Md,

Are you SURE the car is a 350? '91-'92s with 350s weren't supposed to have t-tops, although on a RARE occassion people have proven a handful of '92 350 Formulas had t's...

Check the 8th digit of your VIN...is it an F or an 8??

 

o yeah i made sure, the 8 digit is 8 on the vin and on the door and in the trunk. It pulls hard as sh_t, its my fastest thirdgen with a 350 tpi and its all stock. it is a definite L98 it has the torque. Yeah its a 1991 firebird formula 350 with t-tops and black crossed laced rims with dual cats, all standard, it was an option from the factory, i hear its only like a couple handfuls of them, so i guess its pretty rare

 

If it really does have aluminum heads then it's not all original.

 

i thought the L98 had aluminum heads!!, my fault then i guess their what came stock from factory.

i did another test to see if its a 350, i was at a light at stomped the gas pedal in first gear and it spun the tires untill i shifted to drive. i left some good marks, i love having posi... lala:

also my power buldge hood says 5.7 something
and under the hood there's also a sticker that says 5.7.

So i say its a real all oringinal 1991 formula 350 tpi with t-tops and blackcross laced rims.

I will take some pics of my car, if anyone cares to see it!....

 

Looks like a good place to post a question or two. I have been searching the ads for a third gen for myself since my son and I started building one for him.I like them so much I put my '79 Z28 up for sale.I Found two IROC's,an '87 and an '88.Both ads say 16" wheels.Does this mean they have rear discs?One has 80,000Km(50,000 miles), the other has only 58,000km(35,000 miles).Both are white,one with TTops.Both are 350TPI motors.What are the differences between an '87 and an '88?Was a factory CD avaliable back then?If I can get my old second gen sold soon I'll likely get one if they are still avaliable.Asking prices are both $8500CDN.That's about $5400US.

 

IROC-Z28 Camaro's came with 16 inch IROC rims, that was part of the package. Rear discs or not. but in 88 they were an option, and came with 15" unless upgraded to 16's, so make sure he really has 16's on the 88.

The only way to find out if they have rear dics "from the factory" is the RPO codes, that and to see for yourself.

The differences between 87 and 88 is the 87 has the single stripe IROC-Z rim, and the 88 had the two striped IROC rim. Also in 88 the IROC took over the Z28, so the IROC became a class of its own. so instead of Z28 decals on the rockers and rear bumper, they say IROC-Z.

in the hp department there is only a 5 hp difference betweent he years.

hope this helps.

 

i loved my iroc-z 5.7 to bad i wrecked it...