3rd gen development team question
09-07-2003, 03:47 PM
#1
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3rd gen development team question
OK guys. Over at camaroz28.com there's a heated discussion going about what the 5th gen camaro ought to be. This fellow Scott Settlemire, the team camaro brand manager, chimes in occasionally to tell people to set people straight on what is feasible and what isn't. My question is was he part of the team that developed the 3rd gen. I ask this because the 4th gen was in my opinion and the opinion of the market, was a failure. A great drivetrain surrounded by a car inferior to the previous camaro.
So I 'm interested in knowing who was really part of the development team of the 3rd gen.
So I 'm interested in knowing who was really part of the development team of the 3rd gen.
09-07-2003, 05:38 PM
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Car: 89 20th Ann. TA
Engine: Turbo 3.8 V6
Transmission: 200 4R
Axle/Gears: 3.27
Don't think he was part of the 3rd gen team.
The F-Body was killed essentially in '95 by GM. '02 was when the contract and crash certification ran out.
As for the 4th gen being a failure, not really. It didn't sell as well as the Mustang but hardly a failure. It was a much better car overall than any previous generation. The main complaints were the left over parts from the 3rd gen: rear suspension, hump under passenger's feet, small gas tank(got bigger in '99). Better acceleration, braking, comfort, gas mileage, etc. The 3rd gen rap as a rattle trap was also eliminated for the most part.
To say the 4th gen was inferior to previous generations is kind of off base. I've owned a 4th gen WS6 Formula and two 3rd gens, 84 Z28 and 89 TTA. The 4th was built a lot better than either 3rd.
My .02
The F-Body was killed essentially in '95 by GM. '02 was when the contract and crash certification ran out.
As for the 4th gen being a failure, not really. It didn't sell as well as the Mustang but hardly a failure. It was a much better car overall than any previous generation. The main complaints were the left over parts from the 3rd gen: rear suspension, hump under passenger's feet, small gas tank(got bigger in '99). Better acceleration, braking, comfort, gas mileage, etc. The 3rd gen rap as a rattle trap was also eliminated for the most part.
To say the 4th gen was inferior to previous generations is kind of off base. I've owned a 4th gen WS6 Formula and two 3rd gens, 84 Z28 and 89 TTA. The 4th was built a lot better than either 3rd.
My .02
09-07-2003, 06:12 PM
#3
No he wasn't on the team, they had people that knew what they were doing on the Third Gen team. He was only on the 4th gen team, which to me was the lousiest of all F-Bodies overall regardless of any tech advancements, that's to be expected since they were newer. None ever handled like some of our cars either and never ever looked nearly as good or were as popular. I go there once in a while to read posts over there too sometimes and gotta agree with some of the people that speak out against him and the 4th Gen on that board.
Last edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8; 09-08-2003 at 04:22 AM.
09-08-2003, 12:43 AM
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Hey thanks for the info TTA and IROCZ. I gotta tell you I have personally gone off on Settlemire aka "theFBodFather". I told the guy to quote "shut his pie hole" before I knew who he was. And this was a thread on why we weren't getting the awesome LS1 powered Aussie sedans from Holden over here. I and several other posters were just dumbfounded over the high performance LS1 Chevy Caprices/Luminas not being available here. He actually said they had done a cost analysis back in the late 90s and concluded it was not economically feasible to import the Holden sedans and that we all should quit bitching about it. Well guess what, Bob Lutz goes and test drives one and the next thing you know we're getting a 2004 Holden Pontiac GTO. What I do know is that he is personally responsible for the Camaro SS, a car that was little more than a tape and sticker upgrade from the Z28 yet costed 30% more. I really believe the guy is a detriment to any efforts on the next Camaro or any performance line from GM.
TTA I agree the 4th gen is much better made car in terms of quality, stiffness, rattles, squeaks etc. But that's almost a given in any car generation change. When I say inferior, I mean the car was failure in the direction it took styling wise and form and function. It became a low slung bullet wedge thing with little or no character. A needlessly huge dash covering the back half of the motor so that working on the motor is ridiculous for the high performance crowd, and got longer on the same wheelbase so it's even more of a space hog given it's cramped interior.
I mean in reality the drivetrain is the only saving grace of the 4th gen with the LT1/LS1/T56. I can tell you that if the 3rd gen had continued on with these engines and tranny along with the chassis improvements of the 4th gen, they would have been much better overall cars.
I'll be honest with you guys I think the 3rd gen made sense for the times when everyone wanted a sports car. Remember that's when the Stang almost got axed into the Probe. But now I think it's time for the 5th gen (if there is one) to go back to a more upright style pony car like the Stang for general usability.
TTA I agree the 4th gen is much better made car in terms of quality, stiffness, rattles, squeaks etc. But that's almost a given in any car generation change. When I say inferior, I mean the car was failure in the direction it took styling wise and form and function. It became a low slung bullet wedge thing with little or no character. A needlessly huge dash covering the back half of the motor so that working on the motor is ridiculous for the high performance crowd, and got longer on the same wheelbase so it's even more of a space hog given it's cramped interior.
I mean in reality the drivetrain is the only saving grace of the 4th gen with the LT1/LS1/T56. I can tell you that if the 3rd gen had continued on with these engines and tranny along with the chassis improvements of the 4th gen, they would have been much better overall cars.
I'll be honest with you guys I think the 3rd gen made sense for the times when everyone wanted a sports car. Remember that's when the Stang almost got axed into the Probe. But now I think it's time for the 5th gen (if there is one) to go back to a more upright style pony car like the Stang for general usability.
09-08-2003, 04:39 AM
#5
I agree with most of you post but I disagree that the Camaro should be more upright. I will say that he seems nice, I just disagree with the way he ran or wants to run the Camaro. The whole SS thing was stupid to. On the other side, he supposedly has the same job with the Corvette, not only the Camaro, and IMO the Corvette is a pretty nicely done car, but who knows.
09-08-2003, 05:59 AM
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Car: 89 20th Ann. TA
Engine: Turbo 3.8 V6
Transmission: 200 4R
Axle/Gears: 3.27
I lost respect for him when he was pushing the save the F-Body when he knew it got the ax back in 95. Turned out to be a typical car salesman....
For me, the 4th gen looks as good as a 3rd gen. Just in a different way. If I had it to do all over again, I probably would have kept my WS6 instead of getting the TTA. It was better in all aspects except maybe handling and straight line performance. The handling was close if not the same, but it felt a whole lot better than the TA. Smoother and more perdictable, could easily tell when it was approaching loosing it. As for straight line, the TA is incredibly easier to make fast. And for a lot cheaper.
I guess you get lots of people argruing because its their car. I've had both so I can compare between the two. You get 3rd gen guys hating the 4th and vice versa.
The 4th just never took off in sales. The later 3rd gens weren't sales leaders either, maybe that was the start? But I do thing the rattle trap thing hurt a lot. When I used to take people for a ride in my WS6, they were amazed that it was like a regular car. They would have never even given the 4th a shot because of there bad experience in a 3rd.
Those creaks and groans hurt a car's rep more than you can imagine. We put up with it but the average car buyer won't and don't. I think that's why the Mustang has sold so well.
For me, the 4th gen looks as good as a 3rd gen. Just in a different way. If I had it to do all over again, I probably would have kept my WS6 instead of getting the TTA. It was better in all aspects except maybe handling and straight line performance. The handling was close if not the same, but it felt a whole lot better than the TA. Smoother and more perdictable, could easily tell when it was approaching loosing it. As for straight line, the TA is incredibly easier to make fast. And for a lot cheaper.
I guess you get lots of people argruing because its their car. I've had both so I can compare between the two. You get 3rd gen guys hating the 4th and vice versa.
The 4th just never took off in sales. The later 3rd gens weren't sales leaders either, maybe that was the start? But I do thing the rattle trap thing hurt a lot. When I used to take people for a ride in my WS6, they were amazed that it was like a regular car. They would have never even given the 4th a shot because of there bad experience in a 3rd.
Those creaks and groans hurt a car's rep more than you can imagine. We put up with it but the average car buyer won't and don't. I think that's why the Mustang has sold so well.
09-08-2003, 06:35 AM
#7
There's alot more it that all that and the advantages and disadvantages of each Gen, every1 also has different opinions. Me, I would never want a 4th Gen but 1st Gens are pretty cool. 
I have to lock this though because I know an arguement is gonna come out of this and because we're talking about some1 that works on Camaros now and not on the Third Gens. (The best Gen 
)
I have to lock this though because I know an arguement is gonna come out of this and because we're talking about some1 that works on Camaros now and not on the Third Gens. (The best Gen ) Last edited by IROCZTWENTYGR8; 09-16-2003 at 06:40 AM.
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