I always hear about the 700R4 and the T5 on this site, but what about the early year 4 speed manuals and 3 speed autos? What are they called even, and does anyone still have them?

 

There were 2 4-spds; the Saginaw, and the T-10. The auto was the 200C.

All except the T-10 are a disgrace and are best left forgotten and buried in the past.

About 80-90% of all 4-spd cars seem to have been the Saggy; I've only seen 1 T-10 car in my life, and I was in new car showrooms basically the day these cars came out, looking to trade in my 79 Z28 (dog). Unfortunately I have never driven one. However, the 79 I referred to had a T-10, and NUMEROUS cars I had before that or that my brother or friends had, had Muncies; so I'd been around 4-spds for A LONG TIME before these cars appeared. At some point in the mid 70s I rebuilt a Saggy in about a 71 "Rally Nova" for a friend (for those who might be inclined to think that was something "cool", it wasn't; was a striped down "chick car", basically a taxicab with stickers like a 6-cyl Mustang these days; lots of image, but a 250 straight-6). What a steaming bucket of baboon plop. In the late 70s my little bro and I did quite a bit of business rebuilding 4-spds; we wouldn't even let a Saggy in the door anymore because we didn't want to deal with disappointed customers and comebacks.

The Saggy was an old truck & 5-cyl transmission; wide gear ratios like a 6-cyl T-5, clunky shifting, weak, altogether NOT a performance transmission.

The T-10 was .... a T-10. Yerbasic straight-ahead hot-rod 4-speed. Good transmission. Unfortunately they came in these cars with the mechanical clutch linkage (hydraulic didn't appear until 84, and I changed over my 83 L69 T-5 - no way I was going to buy a LG4 dog or a Crossfire, I waited until the HO appeared - THE INSTANT I came across a wrecked 84 in the boneyard, in about 86 or 7), so I'm sure it had all the strange little binding and "catches" and the flexy firewall problem that these cars all had (my 83 sure did) and the problem with the Z-bar breaking, but I didn't personally experience it so I'll defer to others who did/do have them. There aren't many though. Regardless, the T-10 is the ONLY one of those older transmissions I would want, and would not immediately throw in the trash if I somehow came across a car with.

The 200C was a 3-spd auto. Very very weak, sluggish shifting, just a typical smogger low-perf lightweight piece through and through. Very forgettable. Not many have survived, even among the type of people who try to meticulously keep their car all-original and in perfect condition. Just too hard to keep working if you put very many miles on it. The only good thing about it was, a 350 was a DIRECT bolt-in: I knew people who you could drive one of these cars in with a 200C, and back out in 30 minutes with a 350. Since 350 cores and broken 200Cs in many different car models were EVERYWHERE at that time, those people did a LIVELY business.

So yeah, for the most part, there's good reason why you don't hear too much about any of those.

 

Borg-Warner T4 4-speed manual was used in '83-84 but the GM master parts book lists the Saginaw also being used in '84. There might have been a shortage on BW-T4s at some point during the model year.

 

I forgot about those, being a 4- and 6-cyl only thing... I tend to lump those engines in with the Saginaw and 200C transmissions, though...

 

Quick correction, Hydraulic clutch linkage showed up in 84 on the V8's at least.

 

The 2.8 too.

 

That is correct: as I mentioned above, in about 86 or 87 I scabbed the whole hydraulic system (pedals, BH, and cyls) out of a wrecked 84 to put in my 83. It was SO MUCH better I could hardly believe it. Actually I laugh behind the back of my hand every time I see somebody actaully seeking out that old crap... a classic example of "be careful what you ask for in case you get it"...

 

Well I guess this explains why my uncles car wouldn't shift into 3rd gear after 2 years of having his 82 Z28 lol.

Thanks for all the info guys, I was just curious what they were called since no one seems to have them

 

You might want to edit your post to clarify that statement about hydraulic did not appear until 85. That is super confusing about what year the hydraulic linkage did appear.

 

My 4th week of march '82 built z28 had the super t-10
behind it's LG4;the shifting was kinda clunky by todays
standards and the clutch was stiff,but used to driving
a '68 chevy pickup,i didn't mind it at all
Actually i still have fond memories of driving my z28
with its original drivetrain and hot-rodded 305....
At 100,000 mi the input bearing was noisy on the t-10,
there was aluminum dust in the oil(probably bearings
turning in the case)and the linkage was worn and kept
loosening up at the tranny levers,causing it to get
stuck in two gears if shifted just a little wrong
in the spring of '93 i swapped in a th350 from an '80
z28,two years later swapped that for a 700r4 from
an '85 caprice.

 

Sorry, I missed that fat-finger... I will fix it, as I would hate to confuse anyone... thanks!!

 

Awesome, it was a great write-up about the early transmissions.

 

Let us not forget the mighty 200-4R. 3sp auto with a lock up converter and an "performance upgrade" vs. the TH200C.

Original in my '82 Trans Am.

I think it puked out for the first time with less than 60,000 miles on it! Although when rebuilt and upgraded it would chirp the tires between first and second with a stock crossfire and 3:23 gears.

 

As far as I am aware the TH200-4R is a 4 speed transmission and was not available in 82 on a F-body.

 

'82s used the TH200C. 3-speed auto with lock up torque converter.

TH200-4R is a 4-speed overdrive with lock up converter. They were used in G-bodies and the '89 Turbo Trans Am.

 

I once thought about using a 2004r in my z-28,liked
that it had a nicer 1-2 gear spread than a 700r4 and,
IIRC,only 1/4"longer than a th350. 2004r shares a lot
of internal parts with the th200c,but has a varible
displacement front pump close to that of a 700r4.
Early('76-81) 200c and 2004r have a weakness in that
an internal drum has splines that were not hardened-
in '82 that drum was upgraded with hardened splines.
When i was thinking about using a 2004r,i bought a
bad one out of an '81 impala;with only '80,000 mi it
was in great shape other than stripped splines in the
drum mentioned above-got an upgraded drum from
a junk '84 200c
The 2004r didn't look overly stout to me,so i went
with a 700r4 instead but i understand 2004r actually
can take a lot of power if upgraded properly.
2004r seems to be very common behind olds 307s