five7kid

iTrader: (14)

As soon as I announced I was going with a 2000 LS1/T56 set-up, suggestions poured in, including "Upgrade to an LS6 intake!"

Looking at what's available, I'm a bit surprised at the prices '01/'02-LS1/LS6 manifolds bring. But, LS2 seem to go for less. I assume 90mm TB has something to do with that. Anyway, what is the difference between them? Should I even consider an LS2 intake, or would I be getting into something that opens up another can of worms?

Klortho

What I would do is not do a search for an LS6 intake, but look for the '01-'02 LS1 intake from an f-body, it's the LS6 intake and should be able to get it cheaper. And to be honest, the only difference is the LS6 intake doesn't have EGR, flows a little better but you can port the LS1 intake some to match the LS6. The LS2 was different at the front (took the spot where the EGR normally would go out) and should work just fine, and you'll have the opening for the 90mm TB (I think it's an offshoot of the FAST intake with the 90mm TB opening)

I just bought a '98 T/A the other day and have been doing alot of reading on the motors and asking people around where I live.

*EDIT*

Wait, I forgot the TB's are different on the LS2's and are electric throttle instead of cable driven.


LS2 Intake


LS1 Intake


You can use the LS2 but will have to use the Holley Systemax, Nick Williams, FAST, or UMI TB to use, these companies make a cable TB for the LS2 intake.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That's what I've been searching on, even '01/'02 LS1 go for the same amount.

I'll have to look at those aftermarket TB's.

cam-

From what I've read the LS2 intake plain sucks **** and isn't worth swapping at all which is why they are so cheap. The stock LS1 intake flows as well. The LS6 intake is substantially better than the stock LS1 intake especially at upper RPM. Not that it fits but the tall 6.0L truck intake flows very well too. Be careful though there are many variations of these intakes you have to make certain its an LS6... It should have a flat bottom not contoured like the LS1 and just because it doesn't have an EGR hole dont mean jack. A lot of guys think they have them and sell them as so but they are not. Only way to know for sure is to get the part number off it to be certain. The LS6 intake is worth about 10 hp on a stock LS1 and over 20 on a head cam set up. The FAST 90 is better but gives up a little down low to the LS6

Heres a link with pn's

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=18

Klortho

The LS2 intake is better than the LS1, but not as good as the LS6. All of the intakes without EGR are LS6 intakes (except the LS1 intake from the 'vette). The '01-02 LS1 intakes on the f-bodies are all LS6 intakes.

TTA 1387

Any LS1/LS6 from '01 to '04 has the LS6 intake. Vette, F-Body, GTO, and CTS-V.

The LS2 can be made to flow very well with porting. But you have to change a lot over to run that manifold: injectors, harness, fuel rails, throttle body(they only came fly by wire but you can adapt a older TB to it)

Better to spend the $300 for the LS6 intake and be done with it, IMHO.

Klortho

All you need is one of the TB's that I mentioned, everything else is the same, you can run LS1 injectors.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

$475 for a cable-operated 90mm TB plus the LS2 manifold doesn't sound like money well spent. I was wondering if the reason LS2's were going for less was because of performance.

P/N manifolds I'm been looking at are 12561184 & 12573572. Prices have been from $255 (repaired manifold) to $500 - most include something besides the manifold like fuel rails, regulator, injectors, and/or throttle body. LS2 go for a little over $200.

I assume the 2000 LS1 TB is the one to use, as the cable action (from what I've heard) is quicker than the later TB's. Well, maybe the 2000 is the later type - '98-99 are the earlier.

Klortho

I can tell you that my '98 I just bought throttles up really quick. I've seen a few LS6 intakes on ebay for around 350 or so, and the LS1 TB will bolt right up to it.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yeah, I'm cheap. I've been watching them for about 6 weeks, trying to snag one for less than that. The best deal I've seen so far is the first one I watched, and didn't bid on (wouldn't you know).

cam-

It took me some time also to find one. I paid 350 shipped and I was on that guy within minutes of his listing and the que started up quick afterwards. These things sell faster than crack on hollywood blvd

razor

Go hang out on the LS1tech classifieds. They go through quite often, but like Cam stated, they do sell a little too easily.

cam-

You sorta right but the throttle cam on the 99 and older is super aggresive. Mines so damn touchy it took a few days to get used to it. They mellowed it out midway through 2000 I believe. I'm not sure if its as simple as swapping throttle bodies between the years there may be some tuning req'd to make one style work on the other

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I've got my sniping finger poised and ready. We'll see.

I've seen "ported" TB's as well - not sure how much difference we're talking about there.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

$258 shipped. LS6 manifold only.

ssxmac

iTrader: (1)

HRM did an intake test among a few other things in their october 07 issue. and compared to a LQ9 truck manifold the stock ls1 intake lost 9 hp and 11 ft lbs. the ls6 made 12hp more than the ls1 and , the ls2 didnt make any more hp, and actally lost 6lb ft. and the FAST 90mm was up 20 hp on the ls1.

ls6's have the flat floor.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I would think it would make a difference which LSx engine you were using for that comparison. For instance, would an LS6 intake manifold make 12 more HP on an LS1, or is the LS6 down 12 HP when you put an LS1 intake manifold on it?

TTA 1387

Here's a test that was done over 2.5 years ago. LS6 is better than an LS2 or LS1 for that matter. If it flows better on a LS2, then it'll definitely flow better on an LS1
http://www.gearchatter.com/viewtopic11052.php?

cam-

All this info is in the stickies over at LS1tech if you read them carefully but to help you out I found some for you. Heres a thread that shows dyno results of various intakes on LS1 engines. 20 hp gain on some set ups not bad at all

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131732

Heres a link to pics of how to identify an LS6 intake. LS1 is on the left and LS6 is on the right

http://ourworld.cs.com/jrpws6/mod+guide/IMAGE009.jpg

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The manifold arrived today. P/N 12589181. LS2.

I've sent the seller a message telling him of my displeasure. Negative feedback, eBay and Paypal complaints are being drafted. I'd better get an answer very quickly.

cam-

man that sucks. i dont know what it is with these intakes but I have seen more stories like yours that when the so called LS6 intake arrived it wasn't hence my warning in post 4. Even if you get a refund give the seller ROTTEN feedback and report him as a fraudulent seller that sucks bro

ls1>*

iTrader: (32)

damn man that sucks....

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

His response:

"An LS2 manifold is an LS6 manifold. All LS2 motors had #243 cylinder heads which are LS6 cylinder heads and came with "black intake manifolds" which are LS6 intakes. LS6 manifolds are also a 90 mm intake just as the LS2. If you buy an LS2 intake from the dealer you will get an LS6 intake. Do you understand now? DO a search for an LS6 intake, all the intakes are black with a 90 mm intake bore."

My response (in draft - let me know if I should add or change anything):

"That is absolutely wrong. The LS6 manifold has a 78mm TB with an irregularly shaped gasket, and the LS2 has a round 90mm TB with a round gasket. The fact that they are both black is about as relevant as a Yugo and Ferrari both being red. The fact that LS1, LS6, and LS2 manifolds will fit LS1, LS6, and LS2 engines is also irrelevant - they are still different manifolds. Do your own search and see how LS6 manifolds go for $250-$350 or more, and LS2 manifolds go for $100-$150.

"You misrepresented the part you sold, and I expect a full refund. All you had to do is respond with the part number on it and I wouldn't have bid. If you want this manifold back, I expect you to pay for shipping. If I don't have satisfactory resolution by tomorrow, I will file a complaint with eBay and Paypal."

cam-

I would stay away from price that only makes him less likely to refund you. I'd send something like;

WRONG! LS6 intake PN is..... LS2 intake PN is.... which is what you sent. Not what you advertised. Not what I wanted. Now i want FULL REFUND IMMEDIATELY or I will take nec action. You have misrepresented this product and i have the proof to back it up. I am only asking to return this item. This will be the best solution for both of us as I know neither of us wants the hassle that will come of the actions I will take should you not agree to a refund. You get your intake back. I get my money. Problem over. I expect this resolved promptly.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

That works for me.

cam-

Good luck man!

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Two other guys currently have "LS6" manifolds listed:

Seller #1 said it came from a '99 Trans Am, has the p/n as "12573572" with a GMPP description of that p/n. Also stated it doesn't have the EGR port. I sent him a message saying that p/n didn't come on that year and he was misrepresenting what he had for sale. He said he said in the description what it came off of. I asked for a picture of the p/n on the manifold, he hasn't responded. He did not post my questions or responses on the listing. Current bid is $265. I feel like filing a fraud alert on him.

Seller #2 says he has a 2001 Corvette manifold, p/n 12556333. I sent him a message saying that wasn't a 2001 Corvette manifold, and he may be misrepresenting what he has for sale. He responded that it has a wavy bottom, and I said, that's LS1, not LS6. He had the integrity to post my questions and his responses, and updated the description to say he's gotten conflicting information what it came off of (he didn't take it off of a 2001 Corvette himself). Current bid is $15.50.

Almost every listing I've found has both LS1 and LS6 in the description in some form or another, so you have to look through each listing that comes up in a search. In fact, no new items showed up in an LS6 search after doing an LS1 search.

Agreed, you have to watch what you're being told. I shouldn't have bid on this one when he didn't post the p/n, but I got greedy, I guess.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I've experienced a very similar scenario. Paypal was excellent, although they did take their time with the claim. If the item wasn't what was advertised, you will definitely get your money back. It'll take some time for them to investigate the claim, but the refund will eventually happen....

cam-

I barely ever use ebay anymore. Especially for car related gack theres so much b/s with that site now. I find much better deals and way higher integrity on the boards. I have purchased numerous things off LS1tech and had great success. When i bought my cam I bought it and valve springs off a board member. The valve springs were not what he said they were ( I do believe him now that he "thought" they were as that is how he bought them too ) but he refunded me the money I asked for and i sent them back. I ate the shipping costs one way to be fair

Other than that I put darn near my entire car together from that site. I only purchased a few things new and although I did not nec find that the parts sell for cheap prices over there at least you get to deal with guys who really know whats what.I never once got turned down when asked for pics or PN's I was especially blown away with LS6 intakes... I literally had to refresh the for sale section every fifteen minutes for a few days to even get one they sell so quick. Now that there other other options available the demand seems to have mellowed slightly but they are still a hot seller.

Thought i might throw that out there for you. Of course I have bought stuff off TGO as well no problems but not much LS1 items for sale here. I did buy Kandieds A/C brackets off here though

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The above mentioned "Seller #1" sent me photos of the underside and p/n. Why he didn't just post them on the listing is beyond me.

Still no word from my seller.

I've had issues with people on BB's, although I haven't dealt with LS1. Guess there's no free lunch.

cam-

true true

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

"My" seller's latest response:

"Chevrolet Performance Division no longer makes an LS6 engine for current vehicles, nor do they continue to make an LS1. The LS6 intake has a 90mm throttle body inlet as does the LS2. The LS2 is an LS6 intake manifold but installed on an LS2 powerplant, and of course part numbers will be different because this was for a 2005 GTO. No matter I'm not going to educate you on engines, this is a LS6 intake. send the part back and I will issue a full refund. I have a buyer that wants it anyways. As soon as I recieve the part I will refund you the money through PayPal."

I believe '04 was the only GTO to get the LS6. '05 & "06 used the LS2.

His description in the original listing:
"Used LS6 intake, vehicle had 6,400 miles. Great condition." No mention of what it came off of, no pictures of defining characteristics, no part number (and none provided when asked).

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Isn't it ironic: I started the thread asking about the LS2 intake, am told to avoid them. I take that advice, and end up with one, anyway. . .

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I described these events to my brother, who happens to work for Paypal customer service. He said to go through the Paypal dispute - item not as described process, even though the guy has said he'll take it back. He said this will insure things are handled and tracked properly.

cam-

Sounds good to me. Keeping them in the loop cant hurt

TTA 1387

Correct.

Casem1

OK, you really should have gone to ls1tech.com to get your answer, but anyway, I will add my $0.02.

My 99 vette came with a LS1. I upgraded heads, cam, etc. A year later I made a few more mods, blah blah. Anyway, I finally dropped the LS1 intake for a LS6 intake and gained about 3-5 hp. Yes, same dyno, conditions, everything. I sold it and put on my LS1 intake, re-dyno'd (for the tune only) and my tune was unchanged. Also, the power loss was not seen on the dyno.

My conclusion, the LS6 intake made no noticeable difference and my opinion is that the LS1 intake (or, shall I just call it the 97-00 LSX intake) is just fine and I would run it every time.

FYI, power peaks on all runs were at 6600 rpm, so I don't think the 'upper rpm' argument is valid anyway.

This post may be too late, but maybe someone will appreciate my personal experience with these intakes.

cam-

Cant argue with that. I never tried mine without I had just read many posts about it and saw others posting graphs showing gains etc. It seemed pretty much accepted that it was a worthwhile upgrade over stock so many of us do it. I know the tune plays a major role in how well these engines perform and given the choice between LS6 intake vs good tune on LS1 intake I'd go for the tune anyday.

I did see one post where i guy swapped on an LS6 intake and lost hp... Untuned mind you but still I wouldn't have guessed that

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It's kind of like the old "women shop, men buy" thing. I don't want to go shopping for information, I just want a one-stop shop for the info.

I'm in no position to argue, as everything I "know" is 2nd hand. What I don't tend to see is apples-to-apples, basic unmodified f-body LS1 data.

I haven't even begun to figure out tuning. Figure that can begin sometime after the engine is at least mounted in the chassis.

Not for me. Assuming I get my money back from the LS2 scammer.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Just received the following email from PayPal: "We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your favor."

Unfortunately, they didn't include in the refund the amount to ship it back to him. Guess I'll look into that.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

won't happen, I bought a electrical part from a e-bay seller " karstuffs " I got it tilted it and some water came out of the connector cavity. alittle concerned I sent them an e-mail telling them this and they said oh, well we wash are parts befor shipping. (I thought why? you already made the sale.) ok they told me it was good and worked so I tried it out.. what would you know.... nothing at all the thing was dead.

thinking they would say my car was faulty I tried it out on another known good car (same thing) I wrote them again told them everything and they said ok send it back we will refund the money... but they won't pay return shipping

So I go to paypal they said it was in my favor but .....when I asked about shipping they said no it was up to me to pay that. and I had to use ups or some sort of tracking number which they needed when it was shipped. (WTF usps is cheaper and I can get a varification instead of tracking which they won't use) so bassically I would pay almost as much in shipping as the part costs?


long story short (FORGET PAYPAL) they only side with these crooked sellers because they get there palms greased with 99% of the sales they make. oh, and for my trouble I got neg. feedback got to love e-bay and paypal.

Boosted Bird

My honest opinion is to rub some pennies and get the fast 90/NW tb do it once and forget it. If you decide on a fast get it ported before its installed. I'm kicking myself 6 months later.(leaving 7-12hp on the table)

oh, I think the 04 goat came w/LS1 but did have the LS6 intake.
Also stay away from the metal intakes. Most if not all flow less or the same as a LS6.

Scammer is correct on the head codes for the LS6/2. But really ignorant/confused on everything else.

Good Luck.

cam-

Damn. So you have to ship it back before you get a refund is that how this works? If so that sucks if not I wouldn't ship it until the seller coughs up the shipping costs.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

PayPal indicated the refund should be transferred to me in 3-5 days, assuming the seller has sufficient funds. Talked to my brother later, he said they will get the money, one way or another. No mention of having to return the part first.

cam-

I'd hold the intake hostage until the seller coughs up the shipping costs at least one way if you can.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

This guy is something else. Just received this message:

"Sorry for that late response, I rarely check email here. You can reach me at xxxxxx@xxxx.com. My last response to you was.... send the manifold back, once i receive it I will refund you the price of the manifold. I've been waiting for the returned item now for about 3 weeks. Last I heard from you was you where going out of town and when you got back you would return it."

"...price of the manifold." Exactly why I didn't send it back yet. And that wasn't the last he heard from me, I told him he had to pay shipping both ways - which message he seems to have conveniently ignored. The PayPal amount includes the shipping I paid him. I'll ship it, then put in a claim for the cost of shipping it back.

My brother also suggested leaving positive feedback, then ripping him in the comments. You can only respond to neutral and negative feedback, so this approach would let others know what you're dealing with, and the sleaze bag can't do anything about it.

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

you should ask your brother on the shipping claim. I have the e-mail that states I have to pay shipping

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

He said I'll probably have to pay shipping, but the PayPal message also said, "If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to recover the balance from the seller." I was clear in my claim message that I expected to be reimbursed for the cost of returning it to the seller.

cam-

Heres another dude who got burnt thinking he was buying an LS6 intake

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=795686

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Hmmm, flat bottom, no EGR - looks like he got an LS6 (unless the pic isn't what he got).