Falconiroc

Hello Everyone! I am finally getting around to building my "Dream" Third-Gen. I've always been partial to the late third-gen lines, and since the first LSX Swaps happened years ago, I've always wanted to do a swap, so I'm going to do one!

I welcome comments and suggestions, because naturally, with a project of this size and scope, you can't always think of everything. First off, for those who would like to make comments and suggestions, I'll let you know what I am going to do with the car.

1. First and foremost I'm going to drive it! Not just at the track, or on weekends, but as much as I can. It wont be my "Daily driver" but I think these cars were meant to be driven!

2. I've always wanted to race road-courses. Here in AZ at Firebird raceway I ride by every day after work and frequently I see Corvettes driving the course, and I want my car to be out there challenging them. A lot of folks have told me "Well then why don't you get a corvette?" It's simple, I don't want a corvette. I Want a third-gen Camaro. If I wanted a corvette, I'd buy one.

3. I would also like to be able to hit the Drag strip when I want to, but I realize that track cars wont be able to plant them or launch quite as well as a drag setup car.

I've changed the first post here in my thread so that It will be more friendly for newcomers, I hope that by adding the Q&A section it will be easier for those looking to do similar swaps.

You can follow this build without response messages on my Project Blog Here:

http://projectmodern3rdgen.blogspot.com/

Project Status:

As of 8/27/2010 I've been doing minor work on getting the car restored, but no major progress, I hope to spend a couple weekends getting the rest of the items out of the interior, and I am going to start undercoating next month. I had some worries that the car might have been stolen before I purchased it, so I car faxed it, and it came back completely clean. I didn't want to spend a lot of effort restoring a car I couldn't register and drive!

I have acquired a 95 Formula LT1/Auto. I initially planned on using it as a donor car. Thanks to the input of some of the forum members, I am going to hold off and use it as a daily driver. I've decided that I want to really focus on building the car for the type of engine/trans I want to run in it, so I'm going to build the suspension/driveline first, and go with an LSX block/built T56. I really would like to go twin turbo.

I am tearing the '91 down for undercoating. I've only found a few spots of rust. which is good. The remaining plans for the prep phase is as follows:

1. Finish removing wiring harness
3. Remove body panels
2. Remove engine/Trans/Everything else in the engine bay
4. remove undercarriage
5. Prep/Undercoat all surfaces that wont be receiving Paint including Undercarriage/engine bay/interior surfaces (wheel wells were already done)

This is the first Stage out of 4 that I plan. Here is a quick run down of the three builds:

Stage 1: Restore car, Build up Suspension & Drive-line for Engine/Trans. I'll post a build list soon. This is going to be pricey and take plenty of time, but I feel that it will benefit me in the long-run.
Stage 2: Build LSX Based Engine & Built T-56 Transmission
Stage 3: Front Mount Turbo or other N/A Upgrades
Stage 4: Creative frame/body modification & IRS

This thread is only for Stage 1. I've broken the build down into 6 Phases:

Phase1: Tear down

In this phase, I am tearing the car down to the frame. This Phase is currently 40% complete. I will prep the car for Phase 2. This Phase will be complete when the car is fully prepped.

Phase 2: Restoration

In this phase, I will be undercoating, treating, and correcting any issues with the frame/underbody. I'll be prepping any suspension components that will be kept for Stage 1. I'll also be Primming any non outer-body components that will be getting paint later. The exterior panels will be sanded, prepped and primmed, and will be ready for paint. Subframe connectors will be installed. This phase will be complete when the car is fully undercoated and ready to have parts installed.

Phase 3: Swap Prep & The Donor Car

In this phase, I will get the parts necessary to perform the LS-X Swap. Once all parts are ready, I will begin the swap by prepping the engine/trans/wiring, and get things that are going into the '91 Prepared and staged to be installed in the '91. At the end of this Phase, I will collect all "Sell" parts and get them up on here, Craigslist, and Ebay to be sold (you guys will get first dibs) This phase will be complete when The parts are all off of both cars, and the sales begin.

Phase 4: The Build-Up

Everyone's favorite Phase! This is when everything will start going into the '91. This is probably the hardest part, but the one with the smallest description.This Phase will be complete when The Engine Starts, and the Interior is functional.

Phase 5: Finishing

In this phase, the body panels will be reinstalled, Rims, Tires, and Exhaust will all be completed. Wiring will be secured/hidden/made to look good. Any interior parts will be purchased to complete the interior, Seals replaced, Windows tinted. Finally, after Everything is completely operational, and the car is fully serviceable, the car will be painted Blue haven't decided on the specific shade yet. This Phase will be complete when the car is painted, and fully serviceable.

At this point, Stage 2 will begin. In Stage 1 we are getting things done as quickly as possible, as we want to get this car working so I can sell my Harley. Only one project for me! I'm posting my parts list inside the thread, so feel free to make suggestions, and recommendations, I really love to get feedback!


Q & A for this thread so far:

Q: If you all have an Idea of a better place that I could get a LS/LT Powered F-body at a really good price, I would appreciate it.
A: (Thanks: Pocket) Insurance Auctions work if you have access to them or know someone who can buy from them, Craigslist is good if you can find the deal you are looking for at the right price. LS1Tech.com often has cars for sale cheap. Stay away from Ebay, everyone wants to sell their junk for far too much than its worth.
A2: I've really wracked my brain on this one. I investigated the possibility of even going to the auto auction. The problem that I found was that they still go for around $3500 at times in the auto auction if you want one that doesn't have severe damage (meaning damage that could possibly make the engine or trans not work) I have had my best luck on craigslist, and LS1Tech.com as was suggested to me by Pocket. Just keep your eye out every day, and you'll find that one car that is a hellova deal, and pick it up. I ended up finding my donor car on craigslist.

Q: Has anyone used the Entire Donor Car’s Wiring harness? The way I figure it, There isn’t anything that would stop me from using the entire harness considering I intend to use the engine, transmission, Rear end, Interior, Electronics, Gauges, everything that will fit, I hope to put it in, and I’m willing to experiment. I’m not bad with my electronics, since I have a lot of experience with Car audio, and PC work, and I’m very mechanically inclined.
A: (Thanks: Pocket) User shr00m used nearly EVERYTHING Check out his threads started by him to see some of his work, it's great!

Q: Where can I get a hold of a whole set of all 6 locks for my car? I need:
- Ignition
- Doors X2
- Trunk
- T-Top Locks X2
A: I've found an after-market lock sets from www.yearone.com They are pretty affordable. Once I pull a door lock from the door, I'll compare it with the tumblers from the T-Tops and I should be able to see if I can use them both the same. I will also need to check with yearone to see if I can get 5 locks that use the same key.

Q: I found rusted areas that have not made holes What should I do?
A: There are 2 options from what I can see: 1. Cut them out and patch with new sheet metal. or 2. Prep/etch/POR-15. If they haven't destroyed the metal POR-15 will stop the rust, and keep it stopped. I am going for Option 2 I have no rust that has caused permanent metal damage.

Q: Converting LT-1 to LS-1, I want to convert the LT-1 6 spd to an LS-1 6 speed, what do I need to do?
A: You need to change the following:

1. Bellhousing
2. Input Shaft
3. Mid Plate

Here is a thread at LS1tech.com that outlines it:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/manual...-pictures.html

Here is where you can buy the parts for the swap:
http://www.ddperformance.com/T-56%20Parts.htm

Q: What Harness can I use for my LSX Swap, does it have to be an F-Car Harness or Corvette Harness?
A: (Thanks Pocket...Again) On the LS1Tech site they recommend not using the truck harness, but according to Pocket: 'Tech people dont like them because they're harder to simply repin the body connectors and run as-is. Look at 90% of the swaps on there that didnt buy an aftermarket harness. They are stock out of the donor cor and into the swap including all the shortfalls and ugliness of how the factory ran them

My threads can use anything because you completely disassemble it and build it to suit your individual needs. FWIW, about 1/4 of the harnesses Ive built including the one in my 92 firebird were from a truck

Q: For a budget LSX Build, is it best to swap out the Heads/Cam on a 5.3 to something else like LS1/2/3/6 or just use the truck heads?
A: First off, here is a good site with details on the differences between Gen III L Series engines from GM:

http://chevythunder.com/LS1%20compon...ector%20ID%27s

As you can see from the list the 5.3 uses a 61cc head, so if you changed over to an LS1/2/3/6 Heads or 6.0L heads you would lose compression, and power. This might be good if you are going to go forced induction, but for N/A it is less desirable. For the 6.0L, if you go with LS1/2/3/6 heads you actually increase your compression slightly.

As for Cams, you would gain HP by swapping to LSX or LQX Cam due to the higher lift, and longer duration on those camshafts. You would gain even more from an aftermarket cam.

Falconiroc

So I’ve got this car, which looks pretty good, except for the rims, and the obvious scream for TLC. It isn’t running, but it does have a working engine and transmission if I can figure out what hasn’t been done. While I used to lack the financial packing to make my projects come true, that is far less of a concern now. So what to do?
Looking back at my previous vehicles and what I really wanted to do with them, the answer is obvious, I want an LS-X/T-56 Third-Gen with a 4th Gen Interior. I’m not the first to get this project, but I was among the first to want it I’m sure! Being an avid internet-o-phile Software Analyst/Consultant, I’ve come to the message board prepared as to avoid “RTFM”, and “Do a Search” posts…hopefully. I’ve read just about every LS-X swap thread; I’ve read all of the FAQ pages as well. Very interesting stuff, and I have to say to every single one of you that has done one of these swaps, Bravo, they look, and sound great! I really enjoyed reading about your experiences, and hope to add mine to the board as well.
I’ve coordinated a lot of projects in my job, and I am looking at this project no differently than I look at my own projects in my career. I broke the project down and went through step by step, and I’m fleshing out my task sheet to get going on the project. The first Phase of the Project is to examine what I have and determine what needs to be done.
Here are the pics I took yesterday of the car as it stands after being towed to my in-laws place.
Everybody loves to see the before pictures when after pictures are inevitably coming!

I have not been able to find anybody damage, the paint is a pearly white

Front Ground Effects will need replacing.

Yep, those are two different color of rims

Though there is a black mark on the rear ¾, it doesn’t look as if there is a dent there. If there is, its minor.

Yea, there was a “Baer” License plate surround, as I took these pictures at the back, and I near tripped scrambling to the front only to be disappointed that there wasn’t massive Baer brakes under those weefy 15”ers.


The interior is literally filled with parts 99.9% of them will be sold, or tossed after I make sure that’s where they are headed






See next post for more pictures (1 of 3)

Falconiroc

Continuation of Before pictures


The Door Hinges were surprisingly solid, but the door handle on the driver’s side is loose.

Theres the muffler!


Very little rust, even in some of the most notorious areas.



Spoke a tad too soon, I really hope I am able to sand down to some nice sheet metal under this. If not, I’ll need to patch it.


Engine Compartment is clean, but a real mess in terms of wiring, but that’s okay, it’s all coming out!




See next post for more "before" pictures (2 of 3)

Falconiroc

(Before Pictures 3 of 3)

Rust in the Battery Tray, this area will likely not be used for a battery anyway. Either way the rust has to go. Rust also on one of the strut towers. Hopefully not into the Wheel well.



Interesting place for a Transmission Crossmember wouldn’t you say?

Quadratoilet For Sale, Motor in there is a Goodwrench 350 with 66k on it, I’ll clean it up and sell it. Along with the T-5.. T-5 I may sell as a Conversion kit with all the other stuff that is required since I will be getting most of that stuff from the donor car.

Hey! An upgrade!, a couple of them! Hotchkis Panhard rod, lowering springs, and a 4th Gen rear, may be an aftermarket Anti-roll bar too, but it’s hard for me to tell it’s been a long time. I spy some poly bushings down here though.



Steering undercarriage is in rough shape, all will be replaced.


Please See Next Post for my Plans going forward, I’d really love some comments on them to help me going forward.

Falconiroc

Those of you who have stuck around for my lengthy introduction, now I’ll get on to the interesting stuff!

1. We’re starting the tear-down of the car this week. We’ll be tearing down to the sheet metal through the whole car. We’ll clean up rust areas first, patch where we have to and get everything completely cleaned up.
2. We’ll remove and reapply all seam sealer, as with most of the rest of our cars, the seam sealer comes up easily in a chocolate-like texture. After which we will undercoat using 3m rubberized undercoat in the interior, undercarriage, and engine compartment.
3. I’m already looking to get registered at some insurance auctions to acquire a 98-02 Z28, Trans AM, Formula, or SS. I’m looking for something that I can salvage a good majority of the car.


That is my first Phase of the project, to get a shell of a car ready to accept all the things I want to put into it, and get the donor car. With that I have some questions:


1. If you all have an Idea of a better place that I could get a LS Powered F-body at a really good price, I would appreciate it.
2. Has anyone used the Entire Donor Car’s Wiring harness? The way I figure it, There isn’t anything that would stop me from using the entire harness considering I intend to use the engine, transmission, Rear end, Interior, Electronics, Gauges, everything that will fit, I hope to put it in, and I’m willing to experiment. I’m not bad with my electronics, since I have a lot of experience with Car audio, and PC work, and I’m very mechanically inclined.

That should get me started. I appreciate anyone’s help that is able to help me answer these questions in advance.

coolmarocrzy

iTrader: (2)

Cool! ls swaps are the best! It looks like you have some work ahead of ya, but it should be very rewarding in the end. Keep up the documentation! Its always fun to see another one saved from the brink of a junk yard, or dude in a BBQ stained wife beater buying it and takin it home to throw in a sweet carb'd small block 350!

Falconiroc

Coolmarocrzy, Thats exactly what was happening to this one, but I'm about to post an update with todays progress, and I found a little surprise in the car...

Falconiroc

Hello everyone, I worked for a few hours today on the car. I am on the HCG Diet to lose a lot of weight, which is a good thing, I've lost 35lbs in 3 weeks! The problem with this, and the reason I mentioned it is that I don't have a lot of energy living on only 500 calories a day, so I put in around 3 or 4 hours on the car today before passing out, so I thought it was best not to keep working. It was also 116 degrees, I'm sure that had something to do with it.

Here is what I've got done today:

I started in the rear hatch and removed all panels. Some of the panels are Black and some are gray. Would it be best for me to try to paint these gray panels or should I just ditch them and replace them? If I remember right, there are some after market dealers (as well as hawks)that sell new panels still. The only panels I'll hopefully be needing are the rear panels up to the B-Pillar.

I pulled the Hatch motor out and had to break the part of the hatch trigger that attaches to the lock tumbler to get it off, so I'll need to replace it. I am not sure if the hatch pull-down motor works or not. I will probably want to plug it in and test it when I am in re-assembly mode.


Here is a picture of the hatch progress:


I pulled all the carpet, and the carpet looks new, there is absolutely no break-down of the pad. There are parts of a pad stuck to the floor in places, so I believe this is after-market black carpet, so I stored it as a keeper item.

I noticed something that I think I need some suggestions on. I didn't get a picture, but its not hard to describe. Next time I'm there, I'll get a picture for reference: This car was converted from an RS to a Z28, they welded the holes where the spoiler attached and plugged them, then probably used bondo and sanded it nice and smooth before painting.

The problem with it is that each place they did that there is rust happening on the inside where they put the plug in. I have to admit, I am more of a fan of the regular IROC-style spoiler personally.

Should I remove the wing, and re-drill those holes and in the process get rid of that rust and undercoat it before adding on my preferred style spoiler? Is there a better way to get rid of this type of rust? It appears to just be surface rust.

I took this picture of the Rust near both T-Tops, I really need some recommendations on this section here, because it looks like to me that the rust is between the creases of the metal to me, how should I deal with this stuff?



I don't have any keys for this car, it was sold as-is to me, and the previous owner bought it from a storage Unit Auction. I went to remove the T-Tops to discover that they are were locked. I dissasembled the T-Top, removed the U-Clips that hold the locking mechanism in place, and pulled out the lock. Only got one side done Here is the pictures from the left and right of the progress:







Last but most definitely not least I pulled the shifter out, and peered down the tunnel and did a bit of a double-take.. This is what I saw:




Yea, thats a T-5 Tail Shaft there, but what is that? The mount doesn't line up...Hey, I know that shape! Its a T-56 mount! Well well, the history of this beast becomes a bit more complicated.


Next day I work on this I will be pulling the dash and ducting/wiring I'll leave the wiring hanging until I get the engine compartment clean.


I appreciate in advance everyones comments and suggestions, I'll keep you posted with the progress!

Aaron91RS

iTrader: (2)

Looks like your tearing through it quick.
That's the difference between a 2 month and 2 year swap.

Red87SC

So are you thinking the previous owner started the t56 swap but never actually did it?

Ill be following your build as I am getting ready to tear apart my trans am and give it the lq4/t56 treatment.

Falconiroc

I think that they had a TPI/T56 in here from an IROC. The reason I think IROC is that there was an air intake snorkle with a MAF sensor sitting in the interior. But the history if this car is pretty wierd heh.

I'm very excited to keep going on this project, I'm hoping to completely done with the car in its first stage (running with all neccisary parts/interior parts etc all working with LS-1/T-56) by The end of the winter. (arizona winter.. its not really winter, more like a nother summer with cold nights)

Red87SC

Ill be starting the teardown as soon as I've got another car for my fiance to drive to work. That should be happening next month so I better start getting my pennies together to fund this thing!

I found a local guy selling an lq4 longblock for 700 and a gto t56 for 1500 so I'm picking that stuff up first.

Falconiroc

I hear ya on the money, we don't quite have enough for the donor car yet, but we're very close. Luckily we have some time since I need to strip it down first. Right now I'm looking at Insurance and other salvage auctions hoping to get one for pretty cheap. I'm not exactly sure how much they go for at these auctions though.

hardon85

Looking good I am looking forward to reading through this. This is exactly what I want to do to when the funds allow it. I would like to know how much an f-body donor goes for too, please keep us up to date with how this goes (where you find it and cost) I have seen auctions where a lot of them are around $2900 but they never really give any details about the car whether they run or even have the motor most don't even tell you what the trans is I just know by looking at interior pics. Also I don't know if you picked up the GTO T-56 but I think I read somewhere that the GTO T-56 is physically larger than an F-body T-56 and you have to modify the trans tunnel to make it fit, I could be wrong on this but I do know that the internals are different between the two. Worst case scenario I'm sure you could always get your money back out of it. Good luck and I can't wait to read how it goes.

Falconiroc

We are looking at Insurance Auctions currently, and I've found a lot of cars available. We should have one int he next couple months here. I am looking at 1998-2002 Camaro Z28, Same years Trans Am/Formula, and SS. I'm hoping for an SS since I want the SS style rims, but with a wrecked car, I might end up buying rims anyway. I'm using the time between now and when we get the donor car to get the interior/Engine bay/Undercarriage prepped. don't want any rust after all!

I hope my build thread is as educational as many of the others are on here!

Red87SC

The gto trans as the same as the fbody one outside.

The gearing is a little different(probably due to the weight of the gto). From what I've read with the gto t56 it makes a 2.92 rear end feel like 3.73s.. I've got 2.77's so I need the gto trans

Falconiroc

Red87, are you putting in an LSX? if so, that motor will tear that 9-bolt to shreds. My '88 IROC just had a few mods, and I absolutely destroyed that B&W rear. I'd Recommend going to a 4th Gen rear anyway, so that would eliminate your 'need' for the GTO gearing. I've looked at a few GTO's and I'm considering it. Their Dash is approximately the same width as ours as well, but I'm sure the interior swap will be more difficult. I'm not sure I'm really keen on having the much steeper geared 6spd since for at least the mean time I need to get decent fuel economy. I have not been able to make it out there since last Saturday, but I plan to get out there this week and get the dash out, and strip any additional mats, wires, or other panels off the interior.

Red87SC

The motor in my car now makes 300hp and the rear end is okay. I will not put a 4th gen rear in the car because I don't want to get rid of my ROH Snyper wheels.

After the lsx and t56 the car will get a 12bolt.

Falconiroc

Yea, using aftermarket rims with stock offset would certainly make the 4th gen rear a bad Idea! I did have a 4th Gen rear with stock offset 16" mags and I thought it didn't look too bad, though I was just hoping I could save money to get ZR-1 style 17"ers, but money never materialized for me when I was younger. Now its a bit easier.

Falconiroc

I'm hoping to work on the car 2 days this weekend Saturday for a few hours, and Monday for a few hours since I have a 3 day weekend. I'm excited to get that dash out, and the wiring all detached in the interior. I also hope to strip the interior and get it ready for undercoating. Hoping to undercoat next week!

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

OOOOHHHH... big woody for this project! You're starting out with a nice car... I will enjoy following this thread.

I have done a little reading on the LSX swaps... I may do one, but not for at least a year or two, I'm thinking. You may want to chat with five7kid and pocket -- these guys are very experienced with this kind of thing.

From what I have read, you may want to focus on a 2000+ car to get the improved version of the LSX engine... the f-bodies supposedly came with the LS6 intake in those years... or at least some did.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

2001 & 2002 were the only f-body years that got the LS6 intake. 2000 had a better cam, though.

Falconiroc

Ternades, thats exactly how I felt about a lot of the LS-X threads I've read! I've been wanting to do this swap since around 2000. I absolutely agree with you on years, I want a 2001 or 2002 LS-X Car, the problem is, I can't afford to drop 5k on a donor, I'm hoping I can find something at an auction or through another means for around 2500-3k, I hope I'm not dreaming here, but thats my hope.

If I can't make it happen for a price I can do, I may have to go with an LT1/T56. If I get too expensive the wife may pull the plug on the project, we don't want that now do we!?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Wrecked cars from $2-3000 are common, you just need to know where to look

Craigslist and young kids (bad drivers) are good sources

LS1tech, ebay, salvage yards, enthusiasts are often asking quite a bit more. Remember many running driving cars can be had for around $4000, so dont fool with that $4500 LS1/T56 dropout combo nonsense unless its like 5,000 miles

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Great advice from someone who should know.. thanks pocket

Didn't take long at all to smoke both of you guys out, did it? (you and five7)

kthxbai

iTrader: (5)

were not all bad drivers!

but actually most are so nevermind

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Why did you include me? I'm the novice in this group.

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

Well, you got at least a leg up on me... and you post a lot on LSX... and what did you say? You have something like 3 of them in the works?

Falconiroc

Thanks Pocket! I am glad I'm looking in most of the right places. I figured that I may end up running into the right car sometime between now and when the money is ready (probably around 2 1/2 months for 3k) In the mean time I can prep everything so when it is here I can dig right in.. now THAT is fun.. And I have to look at the bright side: When the donor car gets here, I wont have to do a whole bunch of prep work to start putting go fast LS-X Parts in my car!

Falconiroc

Hey I need some quick advise, and I hope some of you are reading this morning as I want to act on this now.


My wife and I are able to save around 1000-1500 a month for this project. We spent our first month on the car, and associated stuff to get started.

I found two cars that I am interested in using for a donor car, and I am trying to see If I can secure financing to purchase one (both run and drive) I'm not sure which one to go for yet. Both cars have T-56 trans here is the info:

Car 1: 1998 Z28 (about 150-200 miles away)
94k, Salvage Title, SS Rims and new tires (the type of rims I want) new tires, B&M short throw, CAI, Longtube Ceramic coated headers (these wont fit from what I understand anyway, so they'd be sold), Texas Speed Majic Stick Cam, SLP Thermostat, SLP High Pressure Oil Pump. (Says professionally built and tuned) 3.73 gears (not sure I want these, I need to get decent fuel econ for a while still, till I buy another daily driver in a couple years) Drilled front and rear rotors. New stereo. He wants 5,000, I'd offer 4k for it. Grey Cloth interior


Car 2: 2000 Z28 (about 600 miles away (but I am going to this location in 3 weeks anyway)) (I trust folks from this area more anyway to be honest) Car obviously has what I think are Cragar rims, which I think would look good on my car too. Has an odd Shifter, white face gauges, 3" SS Style hood, SLP Grill, UMI Subframes,Strut tower brace, and Panhard bar.
This car is asking 4700. Car looks like its in great condition. Grey Leather Interior


Should I consider getting financed to get one of these cars, or if I should just wait the 5 months and pay out of pocket. I may be able to get a salvage car cheaper, but I am factoring in the cost of buying new rims too, because I'd be using the rims from these cars, plus considering the cost of having to buy a few of the parts I want because they're damaged in the wrecked car. I'm just hoping to get some pro's and con's from both if you guys wouldn't mind.

Thanks in advance!

Falconiroc

Come to find out that finding a bank to finance a car older than 2005 is very, very difficult. Looks like these are going to slide, and I'll have to save and see whats available when I have cash-in-hand. I'm a bit bummed, because I am very anxious to get going. I know I'll get the project car soon enough, but sooner is always better than later!

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Of those two, Id buy the 2000

Easy to resell a newer shell esp with chassis mods like SFCs. The guy is crazy to ask $5k for a salvage titled car

Red87SC

I was going to finance my doner car as well but it just doesn't seem logical to pay monthly on something I'm going to tear into and not have the title for.

I'm not planning on using all the 4th gen stuff so a doner car doesn't make much sence unless I find a rear end total for the cost of the motor and trans I'm buying.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Projects like this are unwise to finance. If the money isn't there, push the project back a few months. You don't want to get in over your head while the car is still on jack stands. The term "money pit" becomes a reality

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I'm with the above. Never finance this hobby. If you do, you'll end up broke.

Falconiroc

We're really not the type that finances much of anything, we even saved up and purchased our '05 Expedition with cash, it was a very interesting experience if any of you do it.

The 2000 Z28 was a scam. I had sent several E-Mails to different Craigslist folks asking about their cars, and on 3 different cars from 3 different states I got the exactly same story about their son dying in a horrific accident and this being his car, and it giving them bad memories blah blah.

They wanted me to buy it through Ebay buyer protection, and they provided a link. Well they provided the link to the wrong car enthusiast. I went and checked the site. it was a near-perfect copy of Ebay's site, and it would allow you to purchase the car, but you'd never get the car. I sent a copy of the source, address, and their information to E-bay and the local authorities. - Pays to be a geek sometimes.


My wife reminded me that there is a ton of work that needs to be done before we would be able to start pulling things out of any donor car anyway. She is right, I'd get really antsy and probably not give the prep of the car the appropriate attention.

I want a car I can drive a LOT, and not have the wear destroy it. The best way for me to accomplish this is to properly prep the car! New Update from Saturday's work below:

Falconiroc

Day 2:

Goals:

- Get the dash and associated hardware removed
- Get wiring detached and prepped for removal.


We started fairly early, maybe 9AM. My Nephews were very excited to help me work on the car, they had about a bazillion questions about the car before we got to my in-laws lot where it is stored. My nephews are 6 and 9 respectively. Firstly, I popped my head underneath and verified that I have a Spohn cross member. I have boxed LCAs too!

I probably could've got a lot more done done without them there, but they really wanted to help and I am happy to have some company. It was about 110 degrees, but there was a breeze, which really helps. The monsoons have started, but haven't really dumped much in the way of rain. I purchased a large tarp to cover the car with to ensure that all my work to prevent rust isn't in vain!

We started on the dash. We got a lot more done than I thought we would even, we got the dash, steering wheel, and associated hardware removed. I got The computer and what appeared to be VATS out. I left the back ducting in for the next day. I got the A-Pillar covers off, and noticed that they were so brittle they nearly fell apart in my hands Two of the tabs that connect the dash to the frame rails for the dash snapped as soon as I touched the ratchet to them, the sun here in AZ is brutal, very brutal. I finished removing the lock from the passenger side T-Top, I no longer need keys to open the tops.

I also removed the Radiator and a couple other minor items from the engine compartment while I was disconnecting the steering. Here are the updated pictures of the current status:

Pic of the interior, there is a bit more dirt than before because of us sitting in there, but all electronics have been removed from the interior except for the wire that goes to the Fuel pump Relay... See questions below please:




Pic of the Dash 1


Pic of the Dash 2




Here is a pciture of where they plugged the holes for the Spoiler:




Ok here are my questions that have come up for Day 2:

1. Where can I get a hold of a whole set of all 6 locks for my car? I need:
- Ignition
- Doors X2
- Trunk
- T-Top Locks X2

2. Should I drill out the Fuel pump relay cap and pull that wiring out or should I leave it there? My feeling is to drill it out, because I intend on using the entire 4th gen wiring harness.

3. Opinions on whether or not I should sell the Z28 style spoiler and re-drill out those rusty plugs and put back on the RS style? I don't hate the Z28 style, but I think I like the RS/IROC style more. All my other third gens had the RS Style.

Thanks for all your Input, since today is a holiday, I'm going to go work on the car right now for day 3!

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I have a really nice iroc/rs spoiler I would trade for the high rise if you end ip wanting the rs style spoiler instead.

Falconiroc

Blue Zee, Do you have RS style or Z28 Convertible style? I'm still considering, I have never been much of a fan of the wing, but I'm still trying to decide.


Day 3:

I didn't get any pictures, but Here is my progress:


I removed all the heater/AC ducting and wiring. I removed the insulation from the firewall except for the drivers side, I need to remove the pedals to remove the rest, which will happen next time. I removed the door panels, and the AC/Fan box from the Engine Compartment.

I started removing wiring from the engine compartment, and got almost everything disconnected. Removed the coolant and wiper fluid bottles. Disconnected headlights, and horns.

Discovered that the wheel wells of this car are already undercoated.. saves me some work!



Questions:

Is there a good way to remove the wiring harness without cutting it? I can see the bulkheads where it comes through the firewall and inside the fender, but they seem to be very difficult to remove. I am considering just cutting it because I have to assume that the harness is from a TBI motor anyway. What do you think?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

The Borg Warner (where's the & coming from?) is far stronger than the 10-bolt fourth gen rear, which is exactly the same as the 10 bolt 3rd gen rear it just has longer axles, and 82-88 versions have fewer axle splines, but it's the same tiny 7.5 inch ring gear that's prone to failure in all of them.

The 9-bolt has a slightly larger 7.75 inch ring gear, but it's a much stronger design. I have read that if the cones in the posi wear out then it can cause the ring gear to fail, but generally they're known to be very tough, albeit far weaker than a 12-bolt or a 9inch.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Remove the harness with the engine as one big piece. It wraps several times around the engine so removal will come at great difficulty. Dont cut it up too bad, youll be reusing some of it with the new harness. Simply unbolt the C100 and lay it over the intake, then unplug the ECM and C207 and lay those over the intake. Its ready to come out

Falconiroc

InternalVortex, I don't know why I thought it was Borg & Warner... I stand corrected. Though I wont argue with you regarding the size improvements from the BW to the 10 bolt, I had a BW with 2.77 Posi in my '88 IROC, my IROC only had a few bolt-ons, and I tore up the pinion of the rear really bad, and chipped the ring gear in several places. I replaced it with a 4th Gen rear with 3.42 gearing and it ran strong for several years without problems. Just speaking from experience, not bashing on anyone.

Falconiroc

Pocket,
The guy who had it before me had worked on older cars for a while, but I'm thinking that he had never dug into a computer controlled vehicle before. The Harness is not connected to the engine in the third gen. I think I can get the harness out by only cutting in 2 places, unfortunately the two largest places in the harness. Once its out I'll set it aside. I don't intend on merging the third-gen and fourth-gen harnesses, instead I'm hoping I can just use the entire 4th gen harness, from headlights to tail lights. Has anyone tried this before?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

There is no need to cut any harness to remove it.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Do a search on member shr00m and his progress on his TA. He reused EVERYTHING

If you arent using the 4th gen dash I highly recommend you read the wiring stickys and incorporate the 3rd gen harness into it

Falconiroc

Thanks Pocket, you have been a great help, as have the rest of you who have responded to my thread. I checked out Shr00m's posts, and I really think the interior project is going to go a lot better knowing that because I'm using the entire harness/interior/etc that I wont really have to do any splicing or anything... I'm a computer expert, and fairly well educated on electronics, and I can man a soldering iron and do some great things, but anything to simplify this already-complex project helps. This is going to be AWESOME!

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Do a search on ebay for lock kits at a good price. Usually those come with everything but T-top locks. If you find a pair in a JY any locksmith can set them to your door keys without issue

For the rust, just sand it down pretty good and slap some POR-15 on it. If it hasnt punched through then you've got nothing to worry about. The new coating will stop it from advancing

Falconiroc

Thanks Pocket. Luckily I still have the T-Top locks, I removed them from the tops for now. I'll take them to a locksmith once I purchase my new lock kit.

Falconiroc

I've changed the first post to be more informative, and be like a summary of all the questions and things that I run into during the project so people can use it as a resource.

Though I have not made any physical headway on the project since Monday, I have made a wonderful discovery about donor cars. The Auction place that I was working with for wrecked cars said that I could purchase cars through them as long as I didn't intend on attempting to register the vehicle, which I don't, so I will be going through the auction place here in phoenix and I hope to run into a car within the next 2-3 months. By then the car should be completely prepped and ready to start building!

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

What are you saying? If I infer correctly, you are able to purchase a car prior to auction, at 'minimum-let-go'? If so, that is a great deal, especially since you really don't have to search -- the cars practically come to you!