Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

It was been a while since iv shared any updates on my 86 camaro, but i have still been lucking on the site and checking out all the cool stuff! So with the addition of an internship over the summer, im finally in the process of building up my drivetrain to handle a little extra power, most likely from a turbo.

I finally made up my mind and decided on a Stage 2 Jake's Performance 4L80e with a transbrake and billet converter. I ordered it about 2 weeks ago and it should be here any day, then its all hands on deck for the swap!!! I plan to build my own trans cross member and torque arm mount. So stay tuned and throw out any suggestions that helped you guys out with your 80 swaps.

I also just built a new third member for my 9in last week in anticipation for the transbrake! Its a yukon nodular big bearing center section, lightweight detroit locker, daytona pinion support, and 3.50 gear. The locker is a bit loud but ill get used to it.

So here are some pics of my current setup and the new rear so you guys have some eye candy while im waiting on the new tranny.

Guest

I'm subscribing, and hope you do well. I'm planning this same route for my 5.3L: a T76 and a 4L80E.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Just curious why you want to go through the trouble of swapping a 4L80E in without a power adder

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Well right now i just have a built 700r4 and once the turbo set-up (either a 76 or 78) is finished im planning to take it up to speed inc to get the tuning done. The last thing i want to happen it to fry my tranny on the dyno and be out a ton of time and money.

Oh and pocket, i really liked the way you tied your trans cross member into the subframe connectors so i might try something similar to that because i havnt seen to many better alternatives. Im also thinking off cutting up the passenger frame a bit while im in there to clear a single 4in downpipe.

lunati397

Im doing the same setup but wont be starting till early next year I have the trans already and the LQ4 I will be rebuilding mine and getting the TQ valvebody and trans brake from Jakes also

Are you going full manual or keeping the auto

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Im planning to keep it auto. My 700R4 has been full manual for the last 3 or 4 years and its a lot of fun but it would still be nice to have the option of auto sometimes. The way i see it is i already have the computer there to control it so why not use it. With the new trans it will hold in the lower gears until you shift it so if i feel like manually shifting i still can.

If you haven't already i would recommend calling and talking to someone over at Jakes when you order. They are a wealth of information and will make sure you get set up with the right stuff for your build and probably even give you some pointers. They have some of the best customer service i have ever personally dealt with, just my .02 cents.

lunati397

ive already talked to jake he is real good at getting back to you also I eventually want a fully built trans but I can piece this one for now are you using the truck computer for your car

I will be doing the flipped truck manifolds on mine once I get home from a 6 month work trip I plan on getting rid of the steering box and going to a power rack setup

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Yeah i am using a truck computer but i was just reading that there may be some issues with the truck computers disabling the manual low 1-2 upshift for the transbrake.

I have a friend that works at place that sells mandrel benders and also uses them to do local jobs. So he is going to bend me everything to build log manifolds and my crossover.

lunati397

I think im going to go with the full manual vb just wish they had it as a reverse

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I started planning out the wiring for the new transmission tonight so that way i have everything ready when it gets here. I just have a couple questions so hopefully some of you who have been through this may know the answers.

The TCC Brake Switch wire (pin 33 blue connector) just needs to see 12V when the brake is pressed correct? The TCC 1-2,2-3,3-2+ (pin e on the main tranmission connector), does it just need ignition power or is there a pin in the pcm it needs to be wired to? (was thinking possibly pin 42 red connector TCC enable circuit)

Here is what i have so far

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

E is 12v IGN
Brake switch sees 12v when pressed. Use the stock wire for this, 86 should be C207 pin P (ppl)

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Thanks a lot pocket you're the man

mikesanto70

I want to do the same tranny behind a LQ9 with a T-76 turbo, but I've heard you have to cut the trans tunnel to make it fit, do you really have to mod the trans tunnel or does it slide right behind am LS motor and then just use custom trans mounts to secure it? Any light you can shed on this would be appreciated, because I'm sure by this point you know how your going to undertake the install!!

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Well i cant say for sure yet but i have never heard of anybody cutting the trans tunnel. I have heard some people have had to hammer in the top of the tunnel but others dont have to do anything. It does also require a custom crossmember. BMR makes a conversion crossmember but you still have to come up with a way to mount the torque arm.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

To get the pinion angle correct youll have to cut the tunnel. With the trans up against the tunnel the best I could get was 2* tail down

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Ok here is the finished 4L80E wiring table for future reference for others.

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

So what were you shooting for?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

-2* - 0*

At stock ride height the DS angle is 0* with the pinion flange also at 0*. A hard launch will make the rear squat and the pinion angle will change 3* or more. Puts the working angle right on the limits of the U-joint so its life expectancy is reduced quite a bit and driveline vibrations are present

Not deal breakers, but not ideal either

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I have been tossing around the idea of also building an adjustable torque arm while im doing everything else. So this info may be the extra push that i need because that should make this issue an easy fix.

mikesanto70

Hey pocket I see your running a SC 6.0 w/ the 4L80-E, then an 8.8? is the 8.8 out of a mustang? I was going to run a 4th gen rear out of a 02' until I had a custom rear built when I had a spare 3k to toss at it. If the 8.8 is out of a stang, what year?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

95ish ford ranger. Be careful, alot you find in the JY are 7.5" rears which are just as weak as 10 bolts (7.5-7.625" depending on the year)

mikesanto70

But the 8.8 trac-loc rear end out of a mustang GT/LX 5.0 87-93 or a GT from 94-12 - disc brake set up would work just as good, if not better, right?
Does the ranger have a closer wheel trac or the same as a 3rd gen and/or the same as the mustang or close enough not to matter?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Same thing for 8.8s, posi is posi, trac-lock

Donor vehicle makes little difference because the axle tubes get chopped off. Truck axle tubes are a bit thicker than car tubes so a little grinding is required before sliding the 10 bolt tubes in. Otherwise, pick an 8.8 and get to fabbin

mikesanto70

How much of a bitch is it to get that 4L80E into your 92' TA, I'm doing the same set up, a turbo 6.0 w/ a 4L80E and can use some tips on how to do the install and what mounts to use and them I hear the torque are becomes an issue? Any suggs?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Read the build thread

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

+1

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Well i just got home from school for the weekend and it was like christmas when i got there . I still need to order a transmission yoke and get both yokes in my driveshaft switched over to 1350's, send in my computer for a re-tune, and do some wiring. My plan is to be able to come home for a weekend from school and be able to have it up and running in the same weekend.

I also thought it was kind of strange that this jakes performance transmission has a block off in the input speed sensor hole so i asked jake and he said i only needed vss?

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

That is odd, but Jake knows 4L80Es inside and out so Id trust what he says

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

oh yeah definitely not doubting him just found it curious because i had never seen that before

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Well after some emails back and forth to Tom at speed inc, Jake at Jakes Performance and a member on ls1tech, i found out that Jake misread my first email and i do need the front speed sensor to run on a 4l80e tune. There is however a way to run a 4l80e on a 4l60e tune but it requires some custom tuning and installing a relay of some sort, which i learned about from the member on ls1tech.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

The guy posted info how to do it, but changed his mind and deleted it all. Now he wants $$$ for the info

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Haha yeah thats the guy i was messaging. He said he normally charges for it but he would give it to me since i got my trans from Jake. But i didnt end up needing it.

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I finally had time today to get a good start on the swap. I figured i would make a good attempt a documenting this so a took a ton of pics, enjoy!

Started out today by pulling the 700r4 out.



Sayonara!


Then i jump right into hacking up the new trans
I smoothed and rounded off all my cuts nicely to make myself feel a little better about cutting it up and to reduce any stress concentrations.




Just a shot of the fancy new converter.


I put the trans in minus the converter just to get the crossmember built and figure out what parts of the tunnel, if any, need some sledge hammer action.

First road block... easily fixed. The pan had a corner that needlessly hung out and was in the way.

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Like a glove!


I continued jacking it into place and the only place it hit was near the rear of the case on the passenger side top of the tunnel. The tunnel bends in, im guessing maybe for the center console or something, so i just kept jacking and it temporarily bent the floor in.

I measured the oil pan angle, rear end angle, and trans pan angle before i took out the 700r4. I got the oil pan angle exactly the same and the only place its hitting in the part i mentioned, shown below in green. (much better than some of the trans tunnel horror stories out there!!)


Close-up


Now on to the cross member. I had been think about this a lot leading up to the swap and still didnt really know what i wanted to do. I decided to build on that bolts in near the rear of the frame. I am slightly concerned about the strength of the frame near the rear because there are large gaps at the end where it is not spot welded to the floor. But i decided that it should be fine and if i have any problems i can always reinforce it later.

Started with the drivers side and heated up and bent some angle to fit the curve of the frame.



I welded bolts to a piece of strap steel and slid them into the frame on each side. It worked out great and save a ton of time.



Passenger side bracket

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Bent up the center section in the vise and welded it in place to complete the cross-member





Finally i test fit the headers and my y-pipe just to be sure all is well in exhaust-land. Everything fit much better than i could have imagined.

Passenger Side


Drivers side


Great clearance overall... for a thirdgen

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I built the y-pipe for the 700r4 and i only have to ding it in a few places for clearance but nothing major.

Driver side needs a small ding just to ease my mind.


Passenger side fits ample clearance


The 4l80e mount is a lot farther back then the 700r4, which happens to be right above where i crossed the drivers side pipe over. The top of the y-pipe needs to be dented to fit the trans mount bolt.



Well i made some good progress for today. My goal for tomorrow is to add on a torque arm mount to the cross-member, pull the trans back out, get the converter put in and the floor beat in, and put the trans back in place for the final time. And then drive back to school for the week .

Thanks for looking, ill be posting up more tomorrow night.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

How are you going to mount the shift linkage with the exhaust that close?

88 350 tpi formula

iTrader: (9)

I like the trans mount. I should dig up my old thread where I had provided pictures for another 4l80e swap. on my frame I had just threaded the plates and slid them in and tack welded them in so I had support all the way to the rear of the frame rail.

another thing worth looking into is the angle you guys are discussing. often times when measured the factory setup has a rearward tilt anyway so a simple denting of the tunnel should be all that's needed just for room to move

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

It was pretty tight but i think it had more room than the pictures are showing. I should get the linkage mounted up today so ill take some pics of it.

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I managed to make a bit more progress today.

Started by taking the trans back out. Unfortunately i had to cover that beautiful converter with paint so it doesn't turn into a rust ball. Then i put about 3 quarts of fluid in it before i put it on. Also bent some lines to connect back up with my existing ones.



A bit of beating on the tunnel and it fits like a glove


Kris from the shop im working on the swap at let me borrow his bada$$ Snap-on hydraulic flaring tool. It made short work of making the connections to the existing trans lines.

In action!


Two second later

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I found out that lokars dipsticks now come in black so i had to have one. Mounted with a p-clamp to the back of the head.



And i finished up the day by intalling a new 1350 pinion yoke. The driveshaft will be going this week to get the yokes swapped over to 1350's


I still have to make a mount for the torque arm, wire up the harness for the trans and send out the computer to be tuned for the trans. But that will be next weekend because i have to go back to school for the week

Dreambird

Nice posting next year I will be doing a similar 6.0L 4L80Eswap will bookmark this for sure!!

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I ended up getting an electronic autometer speedo because my cable operated one wasnt going cut it. Does anyone know if i can just splice into the vss signal high or can i use the speed output pin on the computer to run it? or does it not make a difference?

Blownz28man

iTrader: (2)

Pretty sweet. Good write up. I picked up my 4l80e and will be doing the samething once my cars painted and ready to go back together. I can't justify a $2500+ 4L60E. What stall is that??

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Yeah lots of people have problems breaking stage XX 4L60E's with less than the rated horseopwer and this trans minus converter was less than $2500. The converter is a 3400.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Depends what signal it wants. Your VSS outputs 40ppr to the PCM, not many gauges can decipher that even stock ones. PCM speedo output is the common 4000ppm which drives just about anything

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

Thanks again pocket just the info i was looking for.

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

More progress this weekend. I got just about everything buttoned up.

I modified the stock torque arm bracket so it would bolt up to my cross-member. I didnt put to much thought into the pinion angle because there was really only one location i could mount the bracket. Also im only planning to run the stock torque arm for a short while anyways but i will check the angle once its all together just out of curiosity. Sorry, none of these pictures are really the best but should give you the idea.






Next was the shifter linkage. Mounting the shift linkage on the bottom of the trans pan rail was going to be to close for comfort with the exhaust. So i came up with a different plan that ended up working awesome. I just mounted the linkage on the top, using trans pan bolts that were coming out the top as studs. The shifter cable passes perfectly under the trans wiring connector. It also works perfectly in every gear and all i had to do was tweak the bracket slightly.

Thridgen60

iTrader: (2)

I also after much consideration decided to make a small change to the exhaust to better clear the cross member and trans pan. You can see the couple places i cut and angled the exhaust down a bit more and reconnected to the y-pipe.



Shifter linkage mounted up top has plenty of clearance.


Also just a shot of the y-pipe. It is 3in into a single 4in with an electric cutout Then necked back down to a single 3in. over the axle.



The only things left to do are get the drive shaft modified, get the computer back and get the new electronic speedometer wired in. So hopefully if everything goes my way, i should have it up and running next weekend.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Your exhaust is going to be LOW. I bent "humps" in my crossmember to tuck the exhaust farther and STILL scrape on speedbumps

TA bracket should be fine. I built a bolt on bracket to accept the stock clamshell and rubber TA mount. Several companies offer adjustable TAs with the stock style nose up front so its just a matter of R&R when you decide to change. Since you didnt change the rear axle the front mount's location isnt super critical. The majority of the pinion angle comes from right at the mount on the axle

For your DS, all you need is a 31 spline slip yoke installed. Stock length is retained. I had a new one built and compared new vs old. The new ones tube was 1/8" shorter than the original, I just had different ends put on. TH400 yoke and ford 8.8 yoke

What shifter cable did you use? I had alot of fun tweaking my lever arm for a positive engagement in all gears using the stock shifter and cable, then getting it to clear the pan rail and exhaust

Also, why bother necking down to 3" exhaust? For the trouble of using 4" why not put 4" over the axle?