Yea that's what I think. Got a good tune I think but garbage plugs now. Really hoping a new set of ngk platinum plugs will solve my problem. Probably put them back to .047 gap.

 

Not sure if O2 sensors will survive running that rich that long either.

I have about 4 front spares that came with stuff I've bought over the years. Let me know if you need some. I have no need for it.

 

Awesome, I'll let ya know thanks for the offer.

 

What you mean you got a good tune ? Mail order from Texas speed
You can try to quickly clean plugs also if not get new ones

It's either super lean and dumping fuel
Or super rich and talking out fuel

What is your pulse width of the inj they should be around 3 at idle idk if you have the capabilities to look at your fuel trims

But does look rich to me and wet did plugs smell like fuel ?

 

My original tune was from somewhere else and was super rich. I assume since it was tuned by texas speed that this is a "good" tune.
Already have new plugs and I plan to get some wrench time in today. Unfortunately I have no way to check the pulse width. When I originally tried to start it and it didnt I pulled a plug and it was wet with fuel and smelled like it.

 

Are you able to connect a code reader to your ECM?

 

Also, some tuners refuse to do a tune until a new throttle position sensor is installed. That's how frequently that sensor develops dead spots.

 

Yes but no codes, but i finally got the plugs changed and without hesitation it fires right up! Ran for 10-15 min. Not sure on my temp gauge yet it moves and got to about 120 and stopped. Now i do have a 3 core champion so i couldnt really tell ya for sure what temp for sure but seemed to run pretty good. Roughly 800 Rpm, 12 inches of vacuum and 45 or so psi of oil pressure at idle. I figure it will need a few heat cycles and some drive time to really learn the parameters of this motor/tune right? Im new to all of this Fuel injection stuff.

 

Well it runs and ran good. Turned it off and let it cool some. Went to start it and put in garage and now it won't stay running! I have to keep my foot on the throttle but it seems like it runs alot better

The o2 sensors were new but could they be bad now?
tps or iac sensors maybe? Or does it just need a few heat cycles?

 

Do you have the intake built yet? No point plugging in the MAF if it isn't metering the air going into engine.

 

Right now its rigged until i get my 4 in pipe in. goes throttle body to a 4in silicone coupler, other side has a part to reduce it to 3.75 and then the MAF is there. Its actually working and part of the intake system.

 

Could it be as simple as adjusting the set screw in the throttle body up some? It doesn't seem to run bad just needs a little bit to keep it up and running.

 

You really need a scanner to do it right

It should be at 60-70 with a cammed car.

1) You will want to monitor your IAC, Idle Speed, throttle position voltage and your throttle position %.
2) With the key in the ON position, adjust your tb set screw until your throttle position is 2%.
3) Turn your key to the OFF position.
4) Unplug your Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).
5) Turn your key to the ON position for a few
seconds, and then OFF again.
6) Plug in the TPS and then turn your key to the ON position and restart logging. Your throttle position will now be reset to 0 degrees and about .45-.55 volts. Any higher can put you into the wrong fueling cell.
7) Start your engine, if you are not at your desired IAC position redo the above procedures in smaller increments.
8) If your TPS voltage should be between .45 and .55 volts you may need to drill the mounting holes a little bigger and remove the
locator tab so you can make an adjustment.

 

Well I think I can get my hands on scanner but car ran like crap and died. Go figure! I'm going to do a compression test to rule out oil blow by. If it is indeed the problem. What do you guys suggest?
Just new gaskets and rings as long as everything else looks good? I mean I spent around 450 for this don't want 1000 bucks into a rebuild to be honest. Just a nice freshen up.

 

Also I was thinking, I don't have a pcv atm and noticed a few puffs of smoke out of the oil fill since my cap was off. Could this cause my plugs to foul/ to run like crap?

 

No PCV wont cause oil in the cyls. Bad valve seals or bad rings will. Compression test will rule out the latter. The former an inexpensive, but time consuming job

 

Hoping for tomorrow on the compression test but all of the sparkplugs are pulled and smell of gas. Some gas is on threads too. Hasn't ran for a few days so I'm thinking it's over fueling for some reason

 

Well dry compression test is at 88 to 90 psi on all cylinders. Seems a little weird to me that all of them are the same. Could them cam be a little big for what my compression is causing this? I'm going to be doing a wet compression test tomorrow hopefully and that will tell me if the rings are bad Right

 

Little update, The scanner i could get my hands on supposedly cant scan modified cars? (or at least thats what i was told). It could only read engine codes and i had none. Put some oil in cylinders all 8 went to 160 psi and is still currently holding.

Sent ecm to texas speed again to go through it. I assumed when i told him i had a ls1 intake he would tune for ls1 injectors and that would be false. New tune and cleaned plugs it starts but really doesnt want to idle. A little bit of play with the throttle and it finds a way to idle. Plugs get some carbon build up but no gas smell. So thats a plus!.
Im thinking i need to clean my MAF just because and maybe get new o2 sensors. Without having a real scanner though im really just guessing.

With the clean plugs it idles amazing(after you play with the throttle) Great throttle response.

Is there a way to clean o2 sensors if it just a bunch of carbon build up? Id hate to throw in 60$ for new o2 sensors for that not to help. Kinda the same idea with the plugs. really trying to avoid just tossing money at the thing. : /

 

you can take them out and burn the carbon off with a propane torch

 

That's what I read, someone on ls1tech had some luck with deep creep sea foam stuff. We will see but I'm really thinking it's a sensor issue now based on how it reacts on startup and if you blurp the throttle it'll fall on its face and sometimes come back from it

 

Another update. Started it up (played with throttle till I got it to idle) I was told to unplug map sensor, so I did. Idles better you can Rev it and it won't fall on its face.
Roughly an hr later I went out to start it and it fires right up now no need to help it idle or anything.

No real idle time or anything like this. I'm not sure if it could cause problems running it to long with it unplugged. What do you guys think? Sound like a bad map?

 

Ok, Finally got some time and a scanner! Basically im going to give ya the basics of what i wrote down as far as readings and see what you guys all think. I need to call texas speed and speak with the tuner again and see where i need to go at this point.

At idle:

Map: 2.77 volts Drops at idle and reading right around 18.3. (drops with throttle)

MAF: 12.0

Coolant: 64 (was a rather cold morning here in ohio)

Tps: .5v

Short term Fuel trim: 52 (both banks)

Long term Fuel trim: 12 (both banks)

Fuel trim: 20.

Now my buddy said that the MAP should read in the low 1s and increase with throttle and thinks that this is my biggest issue? If this holds true could it just be as simple as it is wired backwards? Other than the fact it runs rich she is more or less rdy to go. Really could use some input on this guys

 

Is that 52 STFT or did you mean 5.2??

 

I may have been told wrong but its 52 not 5.2. But If the map is supposed to read roughly 1ish volts at idle and and increase then that would explain why this thing is pig rich. But this is supposed to be on a stock cam so maybe its not high?

 

That could be part of it, but 52 is insanely high. Even LTFT is on the high side.

 

Seemed like it. Im usually playing with a carb so at this point im completely lost. Without having a scanner myself or hptuners it makes it even worse. Luckily i have some1 with a snapon scanner but its hard to get him away from his own garage.

 

Just a suggestion... I bought a $100 10 inch tablet, paid $4 for Torque pro, and bought a bluetooth OBDII sender/receiver. Not as good as a full on Tech 2, or HP tuner, but good enough. Look into it... You can even use your smart phone with it. Let's you see damn near everything the ECM sees.

Edit: Also, in case you want to know more about what fuel trims and their values mean:

http://longislandcatalytic.com/under...ng-fuel-trims/

 

actually yea, Im on another set of forums for (13-15 darts) and people talk it up, they use the torque app and pay the 5$ and read alot including Boost. Last i talked with texas speed he suggested hptuners (more people run it) also because i can data log and send it to him and have a fast turn around time vs 20$ and roughly 1.5 weeks for a tune that may or may not fix my problem. But i do plan on getting a bluetooth OBDII connector and using my smart phone.

 

I'll be getting HPtuners, myself, later on down the road. I don't know much about actual tuning, but I'm going to learn. Torque is good for monitoring everything, which is what I want to do. I'm a certified Chevy tech, so I can read all of the values that the ECM puts out and interpret them. Mainly, for my piece of mind, not to mention for when I build my turbo setup.

Now, your MAP sensor SHOULD be around 1.2-1.5 at idle, and go up to at least 4.5 at WOT. I'm wondering if you might have a vacuum leak... timing set right?

 

basically thats why i want hptuners as i need to learn because this wont be my last swap.Plus its always nice to data log and email/post them and have other people look at it and see if they can help us newbies out

Now, i kinda thought of vacuum leak myself but iv had 2 other people with me and cant find one. What throws me off is, the voltage goes down when i give it throttle. that is just wrong. My impression is at idle its supposed to be around 1.0 to 1.5 v and as you give it gas it goes up to 4.5v.

As far as timing. Im not sure the car idles at around 900 which is what its supposed to be and at idle the spark advance? (i think) was bouncing all around but as soon as you touched the throttle it stayed at a number and adjusted with throttle. my guess is the cam throws things off at idle (which tuner said it normally does)

 

Possible that the wires are reversed on the MAP connector? If it goes down once you give it throttle, then maybe that could be it... Is it the stock MAP or a different style?

 

Thats what i was thinking but im not sure if it would read right? Yea its a stock MAP for a truck placed in a car intake. Tuner said everything needs to be for truck as far as MAP and MAF. Coolant sensor and o2s are from fbodys.

Not sure what wires if any would be swapped (only 3 wires) If that would even be possible for it to still read but im praying thats what it is and im hoping Pocket will know. As my tps was wired backwards and stumped everyone as to why it wouldnt start.

 

It's entirely plausible that the signal wires are crossed, but even if they were, sitting at 2.5v at idle still concerns me.

 

Yea thats what im thinking too. Even if the wires were swapped it wouldnt fix the 2.77v at idle. Not sure what would cause it to read so high at idle though.

 

Fyi..a truck map and maf sensor values are Not the same as an fbody and have to be tuned accordingly if you expect it to idle and respond to airflow properly when you throttle.Its not a simple plug and play deal in that respect.And even after that might still need to be tweaked because of the airflow characteristics of your intake piping setup.Ive been through that when i went from fbody maf..to truck maf..now ls7 maf.My idle and throttle response were poor untill my tuner spent time dialing it in for tip in..throttle follower etc before is was crisp.

 

Right, I confirmed this with the tuner and said to use truck MAF and MAP. The motor, trans and ecm are from a 2000 silverado and thats what it thinks it is. The only sensors that are from the car are the o2s and the coolant.

I just ordered hptuners so hopefully i can get some data logging in and everyone can see what im dealing with for sure lol.
I guess until then (unless someone has some ideas) ill just be waiting.

 

I must have missed that part in my research... I think I've got an f-body MAP! I apologize for thread jacking, but can you mix and match as long as you make sure you notify the tuner which you have?

 

I think so. Sounded like it's whatever the ecm "thinks" it is.

 

Wiring is easy to check

A BLK low ref
B LT GRN Signal
C GRY 5v ref

Didnt know the MAPs were different either. Ive shaved down many truck MAP tabs to fit LS1 intakes and the tuner never said a word about it. Going from a small delco map to a newer bosch MAP like LS3's use will require a tweak in the tune though

How old are the intake gaskets? Ive had issues with the original cooked O-rings being too flat and slightly leaking

 

Ill check the wiring jic on the map. Intake gaskets are new but i wanna rule out any vacuum leaks next time i get a chance to look at it. Hptuners is scheduled to be delivered tomorrow so hopefully ill be able to data log if we cant find any vacuum leaks or bad wiring.

Tuner at texas speed said to make sure i used a MAP from a truck. All i know it is in fact reading a bit high but idk why. Also does anyone have a rough guess at how much vacuum i should have? Im running Comp cams XR281HR and im looking to be at right around 10 in of vacuum. Should this be higher?

 

Ha! Exact cam I'm going to be running. Now I'm curious about the vacuum numbers.

 

Alright, finally got hptuners and figured out how to do a quick datalog. If anyone is interested in viewing this go ahead and send me a pm and your email and ill send it over to you. Pretty much looks the same as before and yes it is a STFT of 52/53% it took a few seconds but it went up pretty fast and sat right around 52/53. If i increased the rpms it came down a bit but still high.

 

I also started a thread in the hptuners forums.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...ng-really-Rich

Bottom of first post has the Data Log if youre interested

 

Just wanted to throw this out here. The problem was my own ignorance. Do to open headers I was getting back feed and maxing my stft. Just in the need of some fine tuning.
1. Doesn't like to start w.o using the pedal both hot or cold.
2. Slight hesitation at take off but more gas tends to solve this.
All is well though but I wanted this out there so if someone else has this problem. Lmao

 

Definitely have that problem with mine lol. Got to give it some throttle action to get mine started. Open headers should be closed exhaust by tomorrow at the latest though.

 

Yea for the most part it drives and runs pretty good. Startups are kinda annoying with having to give it gas to wanna stay running until it decides it wants to idle. Only about 50 mi on it right now and so far so good!

 

You need to look more at long term fuel trims than stft

When tuning your VE tables

Tuning by stft your just chasing your tail as it moves around to much

Your main issue is your VE table you need to lock those and then move to other areas once you have a good base VE to get good logs

Want your ltft +/- 5

iirc from fm stock tunes from factory are +/- 10

 

Good reading for you
http://gmtune.ru/hptuners-tuning-guide
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/attachm...5&d=1208828759
http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...tricks-373848/
http://redhardsupra.blogspot.com/200...uning.html?m=0
http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_edi...dvanced_ve.htm
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...nd-LTFT-Tuning

 

Thanks zach. Iv been reading/learning while dealing with texas speed as far as tuning. Eventually though I hope to know enough to tune the next one myself.