Your PM inbox is full and I can't send a reply. So I just pasted it below for you.

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Honestly, it's been so long since I searched for an engine that I'm not up on where to get one anymore. I do know that you're probably looking at a stroked small block to make the Hp and torque you want. A 350 can make the Hp but it will be too high strung.

Check out American Speed's website and see what they've got. However, American Speed (www.amerspeed.com) won't tell you what camshaft they are using. But all you have to do is go to AFR's website (www.airflowresearch.com) because in the process of bragging about their cylinder heads they tattle on American Speed's secrets. I'm not saying you should buy any of these products. They are just a place to see what kind of combos make the power you want.

Another option is to look at a Car Craft magazine from a few months ago. They made an engine by mistake because of the wrong parts being delivered and ended up making something like 520 Hp from a Chevy 350. What's different is they used Edelbrock E-Tech heads (200cc intakes) with a Vortec style intake and accidently stumbled on a gem! Imagine how easy it would be to make your goal with a 383 stroker? But this would assume you find a trustworthy engine builder.

Sorry I'm not of more help.

 

no problem............

don't know why the box is full, happens alot for some reason as i have maybe 3 messages in there?

i would like to go with a 383; but it's roughly 2500 more added to the price. what is the benefit of such a move?

i was considering something along the lines of a zz5 with a tpis cam, 1.6 roller rockers, and a mini ram intake to get me into the mid 400's and then since the crate is forged with a good compression for a power adder i planed to add a ati procharger twin intercooled while using my N20 to cool them even more. i figured that it should make the goal...what do you think?

seeing as how a 383 shortblock doesn't come with heads; i'd be looking at roughly 1800 or so more to do a 383 as to a 350 for the same power.........what would the advantage be??? that's quite a bit of change but if it makes it more durable then it might be worth my interests

thanks for the reply and since i'm sure everyone else is reading this as well merry christams everyone!

 

I think you have two different goals here because one is reasonable and the other is insane. Honestly, a hot supercharged engine on the street is a real handful when you're hard on the throttle. Add nitrous to the combo, even a small 50Hp shot, and you've got a car fishtailing at 80mph. Not a good thing. That's really a track setup where you have better traction and can go full-on under controlled conditions.

I think a naturally aspirated 350 at 450Hp is going to feel weak at part throttle, be high strung, and you're going to need very aggressive rear gears. That's a lot of Hp for a street small block! A 383 would be a must have to make that power and still have your power brakes and drivability. Even then you need to build your engine carefully to ensure adequate manifold vacuum.

A supercharged engine can make 550Hp, idle like a baby, and get good mileage. It doesn't matter if you have a 383 or 350. It's all in the build. However, I think a 383 would suit you best for a couple reasons. One is that it will have more grunt when the supercharger isn't making boost - which is most the time. A centrifugal supercharger only adds power near your peak rpm. The rest of the time it's either no boost or low boost. Plus it bypasses air unless you're really on the throttle. So the more "natural" power the engine has the better it will feel just zipping in and out of traffic (not hard on the throttle). At full throttle it doesn't matter whether it's a 350 or 383.

 

Just as an example, I know of a '93 Vette with a 355 LT1 (you can just use a Miniram and better heads), 9:1 compression, ZZ9 cam from TPIS, other general goodies that go into nice engines, Vortec supercharger at 12 psi boost with a ATI intercooler, and water injection and the car runs 10.70's at 128 mph.

My own Vette was identical except I didn't have the intercooler or water injection and I still had a stock cam. I ran 122 mph. Just gives you an idea what those other goodies will get you.

 

They want too much for the jump to a 383. One of the least expensive places to get parts is Speedomotive (www.speedomotive.com) but it's a kit that will need to be assembled. And also pay attention to what rings are used. You need to minimize blow-by with a supercharger.

Oh, and another thing... don't get the stiffest forging you can find. The harder the crank the more rigid and the more brittle. Race intended forgings don't last long on the street beause of extended usage and vibration. They can snap. I've seen 650 Hp supercharged engines using SCAT cast cranks. I'd talk to some real pros before choosing parts.

 

so are you saying something like a zz5 fastburn 385 with the tpis cam and upgraded rockers with a miniram would be a bad idea. i just thought it seemed like the best solution with everything considered since most shops can't be trusted even when you know them.

 

I don't know what is a ZZ5. But it sounds like a ZZ4 with the fast burn heads. A cam swap isn't going to get you from 385 Hp to 450 Hp and 450 ft-lb in a "streetable" package. The compression is too high to make real power with a supercharger, too. In my opinion you're into a stroker engine to do what you want or a 400 small block. But be aware that 400 small blocks have a higher fall out rate for thin cylinder walls than a 350 small block.

How long are you going to keep this engine? Some engine builders will put a 1 year warranty on their product. Just run the **** out of the engine in the first year. If it doesn't fail then it will probably last a while. If it does then you get a new engine free.

 

to do what i want from a somewhat reliable builder i'm looking at 12,000 with a d-1sc twin intercooled blower to be sure to have 600/600

or i can go with a zz5 fastburn 385 and add a couple things as well as the same blower for 8,000 with the 9:6:1 compression.

quite a big difference. or i can go the route your talking for an even 10,000.

i'm not sure what to do anymore....so much for being fun.

and i thought picking the car out was the hardest part.

 

What are you going to do with this car when you're done? Race it? Drive it? Show it? All the above? Why do you need 450 Hp / 450 ft-lb and 600 Hp / 600 ft-lb? Where do these numbers come from?

I ask these questions because it appears like your goal is to have "xxx" Hp and "xxx" torque rather than a real world performance goal. I think you will drive to the right answer if you set a 1/4 mile racing goal, top speed goal, handling goal, gas consumption goal, or whatever you're after. Then you will be able to figure out what you REALLY need to make your goals and figure out what vehicle combos (not just engine) will get you there and balance them against cost. If you don't have these goals then you will never be satisfied with it.

The only reason I suggested a stroker engine is because you wanted 450 Hp / 450 ft-lb and still be able to handle a supercharger. Will a 350 small block go like a bat out of hell? Oh ya. The end goal can change your perspective about what you NEED. Otherwise you will tend to consider only what you WANT.

 

point well taken....

i recieved those as what numbers i wanted based on other 3rd and 4thgen cars i've driven in the area. i would like to have a slight edge....not a big one....just slight. there is no way i can compete with some of these guys. i just want a very respectable street engine that can hit 11's in the 1/4.

 

Your friends must have some wicked cars

So, high 11s in street trim or race trim? How do you define "streetable"? I'm just helping spawn thoughts here. Frankly, I can only relate to what I've experienced and suggest changes where there were some faults. But it sounds like you want something similar to my supercharged Vette but with another 100 Hp.

 

i'd like realistically a definately low 12 car on the engine so that if i decide to add (which i'd like to) a procharger i could use 10-12 psi max to push it into the 11's.

i was hoping for a baseline of 400/400 at the wheels at the least NA and then whatever the supercharger could give me.

i know it's an extreme amount of power to mess with. i'm not to worried about gas milage but dependability is a must. i'd also like to keep the engine cost to the 7,000 range.

i have a friend with a zz4 hot cam setup running a miniram that's getting roughly 350/350 at the wheels and his car moves. i've got another with a c5 ls1 aluminum block built to a 427 that i have no chance of keeping up. so a happy medium would be fine with me.

whatever setup i can do that won't cause extreme fabricatioin to fit and will give me a dependable and enjoyable setup is what i want. if i can't max it out in that range then i won't.

most shops around here want 7,000-9,000 to build a 400/400 at the wheel guarantee setup. i've been told to go with a zz5 (fastburn 385) add a good cam and mini ram and i could hit that no problem. although that would cost me 7,600.

i really don't mind paying for what something is worth, but if i loose 50 horsepower and save 4,000 i won't complain. i just want it low 12's na for sure although i would prefer high 11's na. but money is an issue.

 

Does that $7000 have to cover the entire build or just the engine? How is your car setup now in regards to suspension and chassis mods? What tranny are you using? I'm trying to figure out how much power you can have before you self-destruct.

I think the shop that suggested the Fast Burn 385 with a cam swap is awefully optimistic. That's essentially a ZZ430. In my opinion it won't hit 400 RWHP and it CERTAINLY won't hit 400 ft-lb at the rear wheels. That would have to be a 480 Hp to 500 Hp engine with equivelent torque to make the number (assuming 20% to 25% losses). You'd have to add 100+ Hp/ft-lb with only a cam swap. I'd ask the shop for previous dyno sheets before taking their suggestion too far. Also, it's my understanding that the Fast Burn 385 has hypereutictic pistons and not forged pistons. But I might be wrong.

I still think you're into a stroker. Doing assembly work yourself can save a lot of cash.

 

suspension should be good....

the trans will be built to match as well as possible.

it was more than just the cam on the zz5, but i still agree with you.

 

Jeff,

I have seen some of the combo's you're considering and think that the Fast Burn 385 with a few "mods" should get you where you want to be. I myself am going the cheap route, and still should be in the low 13's to high 12's NA and take another second off with a 150 shot. You know what I have, not much but a good combination.

Personally I think that a low compression 383 with a turbo and a mini ram would be cool.

It'll be cool no matter what you do. Hopefully you'll be happy with whatever you do. If not, you know I'm always up for some good used parts

 

very true..........

we'll see, time is winding down way to quick; with exactly 6 weeks to order everything i am not sure what i'm going to to do.

 

I know how it goes when you get rushed...

Turbos sound sooo cool though..... and the powerband won't break parts as much as a blower.

 

true, riding around in the diesel listening to the blowoff is alot of fun; i could only imagine it on the z!

did you get the rest of the stuff together to pick up that part from the shop yet?

i'm going to go up there tomorrow and try to get them to get your trans down so i can get it into the shop....

ordered the brakes, i'm working on the wheels, now i just need to have the trans done and figure out wether to get an engine or to just do some work to the stock one for the summer.

o'yeah, i have to get the car in and get the bay painted....hopefully i can get the car up there tomorrow to finish it over the weekend so it can be painted.

6 weeks.........what was i thinking?

off to work!

 

I'll have ya covered next week on that....

Take a look at the turbo Mustang while you're up there. Might be a little encouraging

 

June 2002 issue of Car Craft magazine has a 383 stroker buildup with a solid flat tappet cam (Comp Cams 294 Magnum) and the August 2001 issue has a 350 engine buildup with a huge solid roller cam. The 383 has a smaller cam and both had AFR 195 heads.

The 383 made 542 Hp / 517 ft-lb. The 350 made 520 Hp / 454 ft-lb. The 350 was fairly radical for regular street use.

 

anyone know where i can get back issues or if the articles are on the net?

i'd just like to know the parts they used.....

 

I have the 383 engine article here in my house. If you have a fax number I can send through a black and white copy. Unfortunately, the 350 article is packed away in a box back in Washington state. I didn't bring back all my magazines when I moved here.

But if my memory serves me what they did was take a ZZ4, put in forged pistons, AFR 195cc heads, Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake, Demon 750 carb, 1" spacer, 1.6 roller rockers, a solid roller cam just shy of 300 total duration, and 1-3/4" primary headers. With a perfect tune it made about 520 Hp. I think it started out at 490 Hp before the spacer and getting the jets just right.

 

i need a fax..........


i'll find one some how.