BTW, I just thought of something else… with the big injectors, if you’re not sure what is wrong that you can’t get it started, try dislodging the chip. I’ve found that with 36-50pph injectors it actually starts and idles better in limp home mode then anything that I’ve tried with an actual chip. I suspect that it's got somethign to do with the O2 sensor, I'm betting that it will work as well if I force it to run open loop

hey...i have been saving up...i was wondering if you kit is california carb certified

Hi 83 Crossfire TA,
What exactly do you mean by dislodging the chip? Are you saying to try it while disconnecting the chip from the ECM?


porkyzilla,
Sorry but no, no carb certification.

I mean pulling the chip from the carrier or just getting it to sit improperly in the carrier so that it goes into the default limp home stuff on the carrier. I’ve found that a lot of combinations run better like that then the stock combination does

u make them for carbs

Porky, I'd say that the BBS kits are NOT emissions certified of any kind. The money he'd have to spend on getting the certifications would far outway what he is making by selling the kit right now.

get an appointment with a smog referree, the actual state employee not the guy from the smog check stations. take your car to him, tell him what you are planning, see if he will give you some direction. tell him you want to keep all of the emissions components and see what he says.

So you can actually run the car with the chip partially disconected? That's new for me and very interesting.

There’s a resistor network built into the carrier that the ECM will use for basic settings if the chip fails. I’ve found accedently that running the engine off of that is much more forgiving if you’ve made a bunch of changes to the engine, especially bigger injectors then a chip that doesn’t match what’s there.

This is not to say “if you put bigger injectors in just disconnect the chip and you’ll be fine…” but if you’ve made a bunch of changes, the car refuses to start/keep running, you can eliminate (or find) a chip problem by disconnecting it and trying it. I know that my 165 (MAF) setup actually starts and idles perfectly like that with 42pph injectors in it, but will not start/keep running at all with a chip that is a little off.

THIS IS NOT A FLAME... I am not a tuning expert, not a novice either..with that being said.


When you are in limp home mode, which is what happens when the chip is dislodged, the pulse width of the injectors is set short. Just as it sound enough for you to limp home. If you have big injectors the short pulse width will make the injectors "seem" smaller to the engine and thus not flood it out, as would happen if the computer chip was in and it tried to fire the injectors as a smaller ,thus longer pulse width, putting in too much fuel. I also believe that with the chip dislodged the MAF becomes non functional for the purposes of running the car.

This is my best shot at an explination.

I'm not sure why I would take that as a flame. I didn't make any attempt to explain it, but that I know that it works for diagnostic purposes. For the life of me I can't understand why they would shoot for short pulsewidths since with stock injectors it barely wants to run

Actually I started to write something then changed it and never remove the flame part. What I was getting at was the reference to the O2 sensor 11 posts up. When you start a car no matter wether the chip is in or not the O2 sensor has no impact on the fuel characteristics. So for start up it is a moot point. The O2 sensor only kicks in when the car goes into Closed Loop.

When you had the larger injectors in did you change the Crank PW Scaler term. This has the largest impact when increasing the injector sizes on startup.

Crank PW Scaler? Like I said a few posts up I’m messing with a 165/MAF setup. Unless I’m really missing something that’s a SD (730/749…) term…

I’m still not really following where this is a flame but I’m not really worried about it either. As far as I can tell we’re otherwise on the same page.

Yes this is a speed density term, however, most codes have a crank pw perm, may be worded a bit differently. Some of them you will have to look at a hack and change it in source code/hex code, because it may not be in tunercat or such.

Here is some suff from a different thread that GRUMPY posted:

If you just had to run thru the sniffer for emissions testing, do you think you'd be able to pass w/ this single turbo system (or the twin system by BBS) on the Crate sdpc TPI engine? I'm plannin' on that crate, w/ either the single or twin setup...

Vortech has a supercharger kit for holley carbs. If you can get the enclosure for the carb from them I bet it would work with the turbo setup...

Jason

here ya go!

http://www.superchargeronline.com/pr...ber=V8M205-020

I'm pretty sure you could tune your engine to pass a sniffer with a chip specifically for the emissions test ant then afterwards switch it back. Who knows it might even pass with out needing a "special" test chip. You just have to make sure you have a nice fresh cat and the engine is nice and hot. The guys that typically have a tough time passing have big cams with lots of overlap, not a problem with a stocker or turbo cam.

However, If they do a visual you would fail because of no air pump to the headers.

I am sort of in the same boat. I am trying to make a decision between a procharger and the turbo kit. Since the procharger is emissions legal I have been leaning in that direction, because I don't want to spend 3-4K and then have problems with inspection. Also, the turbo kits are 3100-3700 with out intercooler, fmu, extra fuel pump, with a ds1sc kit and 3 core IC it is about 3200. I still haven't totally made up my mind, I have about 4-5 months before I am ready to commit...

novass:

Procharger, eh? What would be the advantage/disadvantage of a procharger Vs. Turbo (besides emissions)? Would that crate be able to handle it off the bat? Reason I'm asking, b/c you said that "turbo and stock cams" shouldn't have a problem w/ emissions. I believe that crate has the LT4 Hot cam. Would that be an issue? I know for a fact that they do not do under hood inspection. They just put a mirror around your floor boards to see if you have a legit exhaust and a cat. That's it for the "eye" test.

I'm trying to compete w/ a 2004 Nissan 350Z, and the crate, "stand alone", Since it's 360 at the fly...drivetrain loss, etc. etc...I believe would push about 290 Max horse to the wheels. That's what the 350Z makes stock.

I know most would say, just to swap either an LT1 or LS1, but I don't want to go through all the hassel. I'd rather go w/ a SBC, direct bolt in, and stay w/ TPI, or very close to it, so I don't have a to do a lot of rewiring. I figure the sdpc tpi crate would be the best bet, then w/ a Turbo (or procharger now), w/ roughly 5-6lb boost (to stay safe w/ the crate), that should push me at 330 or so horse at the wheels. THAT, I can live with.

How's that sound? Would it be emissions legal? I wouldn't mind doing the chip swap, if that's what would need to happen.

Thanks guys!

I'm sure others will chime in if necessay, however, If you only plan on running 5-6 lbs of boost with a hot cam it is do able. There are many guys running really big cams passing emissions with a good chip. It would not matter if it is on boost or not. Alot of the time a new Cat will pull a car with a larger cam thru the sniffer as long as everything is totally up to temperature. You could probably get away with 8-9 lbs of boost with a procharger/intercooler kit, or if you put intercoolers on the turbo.

I was definately thinking about having intercoolers if I went either route (turbo or pro). So, it seems like a very doable setup. Do you think TPI would choke a Turbo/ProCharger setup from getting it's full potential? I read somewhere that TPI is a very good induction for Turbo's, etc. Also, I don't want to blow up the crate by adding one, so, that was my suggestion w/ 5-6lbs boost. 8-9 would be better, but would the block handle it?

Thanks again

I'm just wondering, I was looking through the first page and noticed the picture of the crossover pipe installed on the engine. It runs directly under the oil pan.

Wouldn't that be a bit bad for the oil, having very hot exhaust gases passing directly underneath? As in, boiling the oil?

not when you consider thats where the pipe is on every stock camaro and just about every other stock gm single exhaust RWD car made before 92

Point.

I haven't seen a SBC V8 on a cherry picker for a long time now, so I guess I forgot. It's been a few years since we had to pull out an engine in one of our old GM cars.