Fred91GTA

So wait, you guys have a hole drilled into the fuel pump delete plate and as long as there is a downward hole behind the plate, then the oil drain should be fine? Hmm, I hink I'm going to end up doing this as well...

Or I may just go the valve cover route.

JoBy

Yes.

vortech305

Ok the fuel pump block of plate can be used for the return line, but im guessing that for the feed line the port where the oil pressure sending unit by the distributor CANNOT be used for the feed line is this correct? Must the Oil pan be used for the feed line?

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

i dont think the pan can feed.. i thought it has to have pressure to feed the turbo.. im i right? or does the turbo have a pump?

Fred91GTA

Joby, what kind of hose are you using for that oil return line? braided stainless or rubber?

JoBy

Rubber

BBSDesigns

Yes, the port where the sending unit is can be used for the feed line. At almost the end of page two of this thread I included pictures showing how to do it.

TurboedTPI

Yes, my block has the downward hole. It seems to work good. At first i wasn't sure if it would drain fast enough, but i have no leaks so it must be fine. I went on the website. Looking good.

TurboedTPI

I'm not JoBY, but I used rubber hose. I think it is for coolant. It has held up so far and i have at least 2000 miles on it with the turbo.

BigMike92Z

you are right.

BBSDesigns

Hi again TurboedTPI,
Beware of the rubber hose for oil return. My expirience has shown me that the rubber hose, specially those used for coolant, fail in oil return setups. The rubber hose reacts to the hot oil and looses it's strenght. I have put new hoses in past turbo kits and after a month of using them you could easily pull and tear the "new" hose with almost no effort. I recomend using stainless steel braided, you dont have to use the expensive fittings, but it last much much longer. You dont want to get stuck out there on the street with a broken engine because of a simple thing like that.

TurboedTPI

Thanks for telling me. I will change it as soon as possible.

BigMike92Z

i agree. i've done work on quite a few toyota supras and in their OEM stock twins oil return lines, they use portions that are rubber and i've seen a few of them harden and crack over time.

vortech305

Thanks BBS and everyone else for answering possibly annoying and possibly the same question thats been asked a million times. I just have a few more. Im already more than interested in buying a single kit, but are there any other issues that i might have to take care of? For example can i keep my prom or is a custom one necessary? What exactly regulates boost? In other words what controls the wastegate from opening when it detects too much boost? Is it the knock sensor? I know i have to get more into the basics of turbos. Im assuming 9.5:1 ratio is fine with the turbo that you include in ur package. Thanks again.

BigMike92Z

i believe you would need a custom prom, maybe even upgrade to the sy/ty ecu (not sure of the info on that, check DIY Prom board). Stock might work for minor boost (5-8 psi) with an FMU, but if you went bigger, I'd get a custom prom if not an aftermarket DFI setup.

The wastegate is controlled by vacuum/boost. When boost reaches a certain level, the wastegate spring is compressed and the wastegate opens, venting off exhaust.

Stock compression would be alright with a little bit of boost, but start going too big and you're going to get detonation and blow your motor. Alcohol/methanol/water injection will helpw ith that issue.

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

When the oil is tapped from the pressure sender will you be loosing much oil pressure? will it be required to install a high volume oil pump ?


-Tony

JoBy

A turbo in good condition does not require much oil so it should not be a problem.

You can get oil from several places. Above the oil filter, some cars have an oil temp sender there. Near the distributor from the oil pressure sender. You also have a plug at the front of the engine above the water pump. That is the one we used on Fredriks Camaro.

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

bbs does your kit have fittings for a pyrometer? temp sencor? or is that optional

86Z

iTrader: (4)

i wanna see how this setup works on a factory ccc q-jet with serpentine setup

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

doesnt' the q-jet have vacuum secondaries? they would just get blown open by the boost. doesn't sound like it would work to me.

BBSDesigns

Twolfe, Yes the downpipe has a port for the pyrometer/temp sensor.







BigMike you are right. The car will work like factory turbocharged for up to 6-8 pounds of boost and with an bit increase of the fuel pressure and stock ECM and PROM. But if more boost is desired the stock injectors wont hold to the demand and here is where you need more fuel, that means upgrading to some of this options; larger injectors with new prom or programable computer, extra injectors or fuel foggers(that is what I was using) located in the intake track. This last option is not the best, but it works. In resume there are various options, which will be part of the learning curve of turbocharging your car.
My recomendation to anyone learning how the turbo works; stay in the 6 pounds of boost, increase the fuel pressure a bit and enjoy your car for the years to come. Then when you get bored of the boost you have and gasoline start to flow again thru your veins and you start thinking that maybe your are feeling sick, get the parts/engine block necessary to increase boost and fuel, put 15-25 pounds of boost in your <FONT size=4 color=red>V8</FONT> and go out there and hunt down a VIPER :rockon:

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

bbs

can you send me some infromation on how you set up the feul fogger and the led's on the interior? also.. are you runninng a intercooler? what are your reccomendations on that? will non intercoolded be ok or will there be a detination problem?
my e-mail is

twolfe98@yahoo.com

-Tony

vortech305

thanks guys, what i meant to ask was, how is boost sustained? You say 6psi is at best with injectors and stock prom. Is the wastegate what controls from boost going over 6psi? Whats this new talk about installing a Syclone prom? Ever hear about that.

Fred91GTA

Hey, Edgardo, what FMU would you recommend for this setup? I'm thinking that the Vortech Super FMU might work pretty well because switching to a 749 ECM is not really an option for me right now.

BBSDesigns

Twolfe,
I will send you information on how to rig your fuel fogger and leds, it's no complicated thing.

vortech305,
Yes the wastegate is what controls boost. Its a valve that opens and closes. When it opens it dumps exhaust gases to the atmosphere or to the exhaust of your car, this way this lost exhaust gases dont pass thru the turbine wheel on the turbocharger, reducing its speed therefore the compressor wheel makes less boost. The compresor wheel and turbine wheel are attached by the same shaft.
Havent heard of the Syclone prom swap.

Fred91GTA,
The FMU comes in different ratios 1:1, 4:1, 6:1....You dont want to put a ratio to aggresive. Check before buying which ratio is in it, or if it is adjustable. I believe that the vortech is adjustable(interchangable diagphram and plate).

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

man bbs, you got lots of info on boost... i think ill be talking to you about ordering my kit either end of may or mid june if you are still making the kits.


would you sudgesd having the BOV in to the exhaust or in to the atmosphere?


-tony.

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

sorry i ment waste gate not bov.


bbs, does your kit include a waste gate and what turbo are you including ?? i just need to figure out a few questions then i think im in for getting a kit. when will one be available??

any one else have the kit installed from bbs yet? are you guys intercooled? any picts would be good to see..


-Tony

TexasLT1

I'm pretty sure in the states it is a requirement that the wastegate dump into the exhaust. I think its illegal for it to dump to the atmosphere. As far as the BOV, it can go to atmosphere.

B4Ctom1

how are things going on this kit, any other recent buyers?

rtkjadams

iTrader: (2)

I purchased His Turbo Header and did the rest on my own..... The Header is one Heavy duty part!!!

Ray

BBSDesigns

Hi B4Ctom1,
Since I started offering the twin turbo kits sales for the single's had slowed down a bit. Nevertheless that single turbo kit has big potential for big horsepower numbers with just one turbo.

Hi rtkjadams,
I always tell my potential customers to convince them about the quality of the header that if they could get an elephant to stand on top of the header it wont even bend it

Raven90IROC

In the next couple of weeks I will have access to an elephent and I will attempted to validate your claim.

BBSDesigns

Luke?

FruityOne

There are elephants in Australia?


Oh well....

SlowGedda

Hello BBSDesigns!

I was checking out your site, and read that the "project car" were putting out 572hp with the single turbo kit. And the only modifications were a MAF , stealth ram and some bigger injectors and 8.5/1 piston. But what pressure where you running? And how much power do one get with 5psi as stated on your page?

Best regards
Mike

Raven90IROC

Yep! G'day!

Going on a road trip to Tiparary Station, on which the owner has a private zoo.

That is of course if the bl0ody headers get let out of customs. It would seem that the Australian Customs Officials well.... hate Americans. If fact they hate america, american ships and evidently american products brought over on american ships.

So far ive paid over ahlf of what i paid you ON TOP just in duties and such, and the still havent been bl0ody released!! Oh well.... slowly but surely.

BBSDesigns

Hi Luke,
Sorry to hear that my man.
If you are going to the zoo, then get the biggest baddest fatter elephant you can get
Please let me know when you get your Z turbocharged, I am very anxious to see how everything bolts up.
Good luck with Customs.

Hi Mike,
There's a thread that I named "Dyno Run Video" in which I wrote down all the specs of that engine and turbo setup at that moment.

Raven90IROC

No worries mate. But I tell ya, if the huge bitchen eliphant i get damages the header after the **** ive been through i reckon ill pull it trunk off and beat it to death.

On a slightly related note i have some queries regarding the setup itself.

You mentioned you used fuel foggers behind the intake. I was planing on using my NX ntrous plate to do essentially the same thing and I was wondering what size jets you ended up with and what did you use to activate the solenoid and at what level(boost/RPM)?

BBSDesigns

Luke,
I said it before and I'll say it again; "It is not the best way to add fuel on your turbo setup but it works" Remember that until the fuel foggers dont start to spray the engine is running lean. My recomendation is that if you are going this way use several foggers with smaller jet sizes rather than one big fogger and jet.
This way you can arrange to turn on the foggers as the boost/RPM's go up. I used Summit's RPM switch for the foggers and boost pressure switches that I got from local speed shops.
This kind of fuel enrichment is a trial and error way of setting it up. Remember that I used this 'cause I was running at high boost with a basically stock fueling system, so I started setting the RPM's switch and boost pressure switches the hard way. I ran the car and with an eye pointed to the pyrometer gauge I carefully started adjusting the foggers to open up at different RPM's and boost pressures.
I know it sounds like a pain in the neck, but it works and is cheap. Besides if you want to go crazy you can always get the biggest jet size available run an abnormal amount of boost, just to humiliate your neighbor's Twin Turbo Supra
Just keep in mind how you build your engine.

Raven90IROC

Yes i fully understand the fogger fuel setup is certainly not ideal. As my car already runs rich due to the previous setup for the nitrous i was thinking using the fogger for race-conditions only kind of thing.

As teh plate has 2 fogger bars (one fuel one nitrous) i could easily set it up as a duel stage fuel enricher set up.

Also you said you used new injectors with teh stock chip and tune. Could you recomend an injector to straight replace the stock ones for my application?

BBSDesigns

Luke,
On one ocation I started playing with bigger injectors with the stock computer and chip. I tested #55 MSD's, #37 Vortech's, #26 Accel's and finally #24 Ford Motorsports. The stock computer and chip its supposed to handle about a 15% increase in injector up-size and this is very much true. The 55's where too big, even with an adjustable regulator and deleting the stock regulator to decrease the fuel pressure at idle it would give me a hard time. The 37's where even worst, no explanation on what was the reason for this. When I bought the Acce's #26 I thought that the problems would go away, the car then wont even start with those... So I bought the #24 Ford Motorsports and that cured my problem. Is not that much of an increase, but the computer accept them with no other problems.
My recomendation is that since the TPI is so easy and friendly to change the injectors, dont change them at all. If you still want to change them, get the #24 Ford Motorsports which where the ones with a bit of an increase that didn't gave me any problems. This is unless someone out there knows something that I dont to add even bigger injectors keeping the stock computer and chip, if so please enlight us.
Another way is to get a burned chip or aftermarket computer, but this usually is expensive.

FruityOne

From what I remember the stock TPI injectors are rated at 42psi, regardless of weather its the 19 or 22lb/hr injectors.

The ford SVO injectors are rated at 38psi I think. So at 42psi with a stock regulator they are flowing more than 24lb/hr. I think it came out to 26lb/hr with some estimates I did. Not quite sure if I did them correctly, but I think its about right.

GET a chip burned. go to www.madz28.com and contact them about TPI tuning. They may be able to help you, and they have a very good track record with all of the people I know who have had work done on their PROMs. He doesn't list TPI in any of the pages, but he has started to do them. I have contacted him for my setup, but money is really slim right now so I can't afford it.

RMK

That's interesting, I've heard the exact same thing from about 4 other people...and it seems it's only with the #26. Willie was telling me that his car wouldn't start with them either. Hmmm

Sorry to veer off topic.

Raven90IROC

Yeah obviously id like to look at PROM burning and aftermarket ECM mods but its not that simple down here. There was never a single car released in Australia that used TPI so it is virtually impossible to find anywhere that with tune one.

As for getting everything from 'ol US of A, after the total **** fight ive gone through waiting for the BBS headers i doubt ill bother importing parts again. Not to mention I have to pay about 250% than any of you guys coz of tax, fees, freight and exchange.

Thats why i asked about the injector swap. I really need to limit myself to parts i can source locally.

Although, if someone in here is willing to send me over a spare chiped up ECM they have lying around, by all means do so!!

JoBy

You must be able to find all the prom burning equipment you need locally.

All the tuning software you need can be downloaded for free.

Swapping injectors does the same thing as modifying the injector constant in the chip ( as long as the injectors don't use 100% of the duty cycle ).

You should be able to get prom burning equipment you need for less than a set of injectors.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Um, really? I’m using some 808 code that was supposedly originally from an Australian Holden powered by a 305 TPI in my ‘165. Not that I’ve ever actually seen such a beast in person, but I’ve never been to Australia either.

WRT to chip burning hardware, the best deals that I’ve found online (and I mean I got all the hardware I need for $34 shipped) were drop shipped straight from the far east, and I can’t imagine it being significantly worse for you to get that stuff there then for me to get it here.

Raven90IROC

Yeah there are a fair few cars running TPI set-ups here but never from factory. Im sure your right about importing the burning gear, but to be honest.... im just ***king over it for a while.

I want to walk into my closest speed shop, say "give me ......", walk home, install it, drive harder.

Not search the net, contact supplier, organise their freight to ship, pay exchange, pay shipping, complete import/customs documentation, pay duties, pay tax, wait a number of weeks/months, argue with customs to get it released, pay more freight to my door.... and pray it works.

I know your all trying to help me, and that PROM burning is the way to go.... but i cant be bothered anymore. Maybe when im going for 30psi but untill i absolutly have to, ill make do with injectors and my foggers.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Uh, OK, but I’ve got some code here that’s labeled as coming from an Australian 305 TPI Holden…

Run an FMU and/or fogger nozzles. Don’t mess with injectors, the ECM knows what it’s doing with the stock injectors. Really, if you’re not going to do any ecm tuning, I would take it to the track NA, adjust fuel pressure and timing till you’ve got your best run, then add boost and add fuel relative to that, keeping your baseline. That way you’ll always be running right as opposed to constantly chasing your tune.

To be honest with you, I don’t care what you do, I’m just making sure that the “truth” is out there… As far as chip burning goes, even though I do it, and am starting to get a decent handle on it, I still believe, just as I did before I got in it, it is not the be all and end all WRT to tuning a car like some make it out to be. Especially if you’re talking about a drag car. The more I play with this the more I believe that you will run out of the range of what the factory ECM’s will tune for well before you’ll run out of the range of what you can add fuel for mechanically. Yea, the “chip burning” guys out there will have the advantage at part throttle/part boost, but who cares, most of us are at WOT or just tooling around, we don’t spend much time in between. (of course, I’m sure that this will start an argument, whatever)

BBSDesigns

Weird isn't it. I did test the resistance on each of the injectors that I tested on the car and if I remember well the MSD's #55 pounders had more resistance than the others and the Vortech's #37 had the lowest value. The Accel's 26# where in between the test group, I really dont know what was the reason for a non-start problem, all the others tested at least fired up my car.
Good thing is that the injectors where purchased at Summit's and they refunded me every penny spend!

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

You know, I’ve had 2 customers in the shop this week with TPI cars that just wouldn’t run right with accel injectors. One that would barely start and run and one that seemed to run OK, no one has been able to find anything wrong with it, but was unable to pass emissions no matter what they tried for 3 years now…