Cant use stock TPI rails. Affordable options may be the edelbrock victor EFI rails..at 80 bucks but you'd need an external regulator and fittings + crossover line. May or may not end up costing 200 bucks like the holley rails

 

So does that mean that the stock rails can supply 800 hp?

 

I think the stock TPI rails can support the requirements for 800hp, but they dont fit the HSR.

Victor rails I know can support it because I believe I'm there already. HSR rails are only a 1/2" diameter fuel passage but should support 800hp easily since i've seen them advertised to support 1100hp..not sure if thats true or not. Victor rails are 9/16" so they can support more.

stock body hardlines will also support that power.

 

To clarify i got you confused with another build. You have an LT1 motor... not TPI. You are going to try and run a Holley stealth ram intake setup?

In that case the stock LT1 rails wont work either and you'd have to run the holley rails or possibly the edelbrock rails.

You probably could try running the LT1 or LT4 intake with stock LT1 rails and getting that to work ok.

 

yes I have a 1995 LT1 motor.

 

Before you decide what sort of power handlers (trans/rear/driveshaft components) you want behind your engine, you must consider the desired behavior v.s. the optimal behavior for the application.

If your application is RACE ONLY then you care more about "full impact sports" that is you expect a "clutch drop" all the time, you expect a trans-brake, a strong rear end, the right driveshaft, and real tires. you need all that stuff so that when the tire loads the next component (wheel) which then loads the next component (where is that wheel bolted?) which of course loads the next component and eventually to the flywheel bolts and crankshaft... You will eventually find a weak link in that chain of solids, if there is one. And there is always a weakest link to be found.

So we can minimize failure by minimizing two different forces at work:
1. Sudden impact (peak load spikes)
2. rotational torque applications (overall applied force for the duration)

Your main concern is sudden impact because those are like pressure spikes in a combustion chamber- they lead to bad things. there are a few ways to soften the sudden impacts, here are some:
1. use a torque converter, dont use a trans-brake
2. use a less aggressive clutch
3. use a less aggressive tire

Mainly you are worried about the launch, thats where most of your driveshaft twisting sudden impact occurs. The rest is during shifts.
#2 is less important, both because you want maximum power output AND because before you even put the car together you already decided how much torque you are going to make, and what components should be expected to last. didnt you? That T-56 is not rated for 600 ft.lbs of torque right? But I have a much greater chance breaking it by doing clutch drops with my 300 horsepower N/A carb'd 350 than loading it up gradually under boost with my 700 horsepower turbocharged 350.

The "street" theory:
If the car is 99% street, then we can do away with the aggressive clutch the trans-brake and the drag radials. I dont care how bad you want to rip away from stoplights, if you MUST do this then use an automatic and get a healthy stall/gear and use lockup to conserve what fuel you can overall. The OEM T-56 is not exactly a "racing transmission" its designed to offer the fun of a manual transmission with the incredible fuel saving gearing and the fact that it "eats" less fuel just turning (when compared to any auto) so if that fuel efficiency/manual aspect is that important to you, conserve the life of it by using a weak(er) tire/clutch or it will not last when you want it to perform 100% output ability.

My idea of a stop-light street "drag" car is the automatic transmission, with a stall chose right around where the turbocharger comes to life, so that stoplight boosting is possible but not to the extend that the tires break loose. there is a fine line when you are sitting still with the foot on the brake, and you want to go, so you open the throttle body and release the brake and.... ! you dont want spinning tires, but you dont want a bog/slug. This is called the narrow gap of "stall converter sizing" it may take more than one trip to the converter manufacturer to get it right...and sometimes you can play with the boost, but when you DO get it right, the car will "rip away" and your boost/mph method of controlling traction (you DO have boost/mph right? AVCR does it...) will ensure that you need not lift your foot until you decide thats fast enough.

oh hai guise!

 

You can make a t56 be able to handle that kind of power pretty easily. Does anyone know of a good place that sells you upgraded internals for T56's?

 

look into Tick Performance and Texas Drivetrain Performance. and FYI the upgraded t56 gears are so expensive it's really not worth it. billet shift keys, carbon syncro's, bronze pads, and ungraded main shafts are good upgrades though.

 

I'm the owner of Texas Drivetrain Performance and we don't really sell parts. We primarily just do rebuilds and upgrades that most places don't even offer, and we sell complete T56 transmissions. I recommend doing the billet keys for 3-4 and the steel shift fork. I can sell you these parts if you'd like.

 

[QUOTE=89ROC;4812111]I'm the owner of Texas Drivetrain Performance and we don't really sell parts. We primarily just do rebuilds and upgrades that most places don't even offer, and we sell complete T56 transmissions. I recommend doing the billet keys for 3-4 and the steel shift fork. I can sell you these parts if you'd like.[/QUO

oh okay. How much? Is that all I would have to upgrade to make it be able to handle that much power?

 

What flange turbo did you use Orr89RocZ? t3 or t4?

 

T4

 

What a/r did you run on your twin 60mm setup on both the hot and cold side?

 

Compressors were 70 a/r while the turbines were .68 a/r's and spooled stupid fast I have a set of .96 a/r housings available that i was going to run with my T70s but they are about 1/3" wider and would cause misalignment with my wastegate pipes and possible exhaust pipes below. 1/4 to 1/3" difference makes a big difference on my setup.

 

Daaamn, that must have spooled reeeeal quick! I have 2 .60 a/r compressors and .96 a/r turbine turbos. How do you think that will work?

 

For about 6000-6200 rpms on a decent 383 build, the .96 a/rs will work well with 60mm turbos...still likely to spool fast. Just depends on what actual wheel dimensions are..what size turbine wheel do you have? What model garretts are they? .60 a/r compressor sounds like a small ratio but doesnt really matter to much for the compressor side of things.

 

hey i got a ht 80 with a exhaust a/r of 1.25 if you wanna go single turbo .lol

 

ol yeah it's got a t6 flange ... 400 plus shipping .

 

just wondering do you need to run an oil cooler on the twin turbo setup or can you get by without? Where do you tap into you oil system to feed your turbos oil?

 

I dont have a cooler on my car and havent really noticed any issues with that except it seemed to run hotter than I wanted. I dont know the exact oil temps either but I plan to install a gauge and oil cooler.

On the back of the block on the china wall, i put in a T-fitting and ran 2 lines from that T to the turbos.

 

Whats the china wall? When you run your oil cooler are you going to get an adapter or something to go where the oil filter and then run your line from there or where do you plan on putting the oil cooler lines?

 

china wall just refers to the rear of the block where the intake manifold rests on the block, same wall the distributor sits on. There is usually a port back there thats plugged but you can use that for an oil supply.

Oil cooler will likely be an adapter for the filter, like how some thirdgens came factory with. If I have enough room to do so, I will. I got plenty of space up front of the engine just not alot around the drivers side filter

 

wow I never knew that about some third gens coming with oil coolers stock, thats pretty easy to do then. Okay now I know what your talking about with the china wall. Im getting real excited, I just got all my parts in! Ill give you all my specs to see what you think.

Forged scat crank, rods and forged wiseco pistons.
Brodix aluminum heads with heavy springs that have 400 lbs open pressure and 125 seat
Crane aluminum rocker arms with stud girdle
comp cam custom grind cam 290 intake 286 exhaust, intake lift is 558 and exhaust is 555
lobe separation is 115 degrees

 

Looks good, whats the duration at .050? Advertised looks good. Some guys dont like aluminum rockers on a street car. They tend to have a lower cycle life before failure since aluminum is a weaker material than a steel rocker. I have heard of breakages before but havent really seen it, so be cautious.

Other than that, i'd like to see abit more seat pressure on the spring but the open pressure is fine. Can you shim to get abit more pressure and still handle the cam lift?

 

Its 240 intake and 236 on exhaust at .050. Yea ive heard about that too but ill give it a shot. Yea i can put a .020 shim in there. I also forgot to mention my lifters are crower hydraulic lifters and my cam is a comp cam hydraulic roller.

 

hey does anyone know of a good clutch system and flywheel to run on my LT1 t56 transmission that will be able to handle this kind of power?

 

Best I know is a twin disc type setup....mcleod sells one around 1200 bucks i think...twin discs hold the power and drive well off boost but are going to be pricey.

I think my buddy uses a spec 3+ clutch on his nitrous 406 that runs 9.8's at 142... Seems like not enough clutch but its working. You can try something like that too.

 

orr.... he's faster than you???? 142mph??? hmmmm,, i'd turn up the boost buddy!

 

He went 142.xx I've been 141.98...we are pretty close but he was 9.8x and I've been 9.73 so I still have him by a nose hair. I've been working on my car lately with the new turbos so hopefully I can get to the track soon but calling for rain this weekend. I will try to dyno tune it tomorrow tho as its suppose to be nice out.

 

okay so i know its been a while but ive gotten pretty far with this build. I really need to post pics. I went with race right 200 aluminum brodix heads, comp cam roller rockers, crower hydro roller lifters, crower custom ground cam .568/.568 114, scat I beam forged rods, scat forged crank internally balanced, forged aluminium wiesco pistons 9:1 compression. T56 trans rebuild to handle more power and a mcleod twin disc clutch kit. Im stuck right now trying to figure out what turbos I want to run for my twins set up. I have the front mounted t3 flange headers. One buddy says that ill be fine with running a t3 flange turbo with internal waste gates. Another buddy says that I need to run at least t4 flange turbos with external waste gates. I really just want to get 2 t3 flange turbos with internal waste gates to just simplify the setup right now because i just really want to get this thing on the road but i dont want to if its going to choke my motor out. I really need two turbos so if anyone knows someone getting rid of some let me know. Please help!!!

 

Good choice. Centerforce, McLeod, Exedy, seem to be the best out there right now.

I have a 26 spline T56 in my '01 Mustang with a Centerforce DFX, Fidanza flywheel. In the '03 Cobra it came out of my setup had gone 11.1X at 124 MPH. In my lighter GT with enough power it'd probably at least be good for mid 10s.

I can guarantee a T3 flange turbo won't choke your engine out. Look at Garrett GTX3582R a.k.a. GT35R for the Evo and STI guys. 450-750 horsepower each. Twin GTX35s would let you see 1K HP without pushing them much..

I skimmed through a little bit, but where'd you get your turbo headers? Custom, or buy them somewhere? Only places I know where to get quality SBC twin turbo headers are Stainless Works, NRE, HP Performance's turbo kits, and of course WrenchRat's kits.

 

Okay cool. could I go with internal waste gates or should I still do external? I bought my headers from some guy who owns a ceramic coating company so they are ceramic coated but they look like the 200 dollar front mounted turbo headers off ebay. They arnt bad nice think flanges but they arnt perfect.

 

I'd go external no doubt.

I'm probably going to try the ebay headers whenever I get done with the Mustang and build a 383. Still got a lot of stuff on my list. A fresh Centerforce DFX, aluminum Fidanza flywheel instead of my current steel Fidanza, Kooks 1-3/4" long tubes and 3" X pipe, CX Racing intercooler kit, and then the Vortech install.

 

Hey orr89rocz can you tell me what you think I should do?

 

All depends on how you package the setup and how much power you want to run. A t3/t4 hybrid will work well. Guys have done those 60-1 type turbos to big hp levels.

I like the T4 housings myself with external gates, but you dont need them for under 700rwhp I guess.

Your 383 is pretty stout with good heads and sounds like a good cam. Whats the duration and planned operating RPM? If its under 6200 for the most part, T3 with one of the larger T3 housing a/r's should work well enough. Should still spool very fast. I never used them to know for sure. I just was very happy with how my 401 responded with the T60 T4 setups with the small .68 a/r. I didnt like the T70 T4 with the same housing. My new setup I'm switching to a .96 a/r T4 since I'll be turning near 7K rpm. LOTS of exhaust on a high hp motor at high rpms, especially at 400 cubes so I'm gonna limit backpressure as much as I can.

I know a local guy running twin T3's on a 355 motor I think that supposively made 700hp but not sure. I know he turned some rpm but I never seen him race it. He mostly goes to shows.

If tuned right, i'm sure you can get a T4 .68 a/r housing turbo in the 58-61mm range to spool quick on your 383. Based on my experience in the sub 6K rpm range, I would not go any larger than 61mm on compressor. P trim T4 turbines work well. Easily a 700whp ride without much effort and more depending on the setup.

IF you want to get the car onthe road for now and get used to the setup, then a T3 hybrid should work for you. 60-1's are very popular. Few companies make 60-1 models, I think precision turbo, master power, and some others have a 60-1 model.

 

Im going to be able to turn upwards of around 7000 rpm, and my duaration is 290 degrees intake and 286 exahust. I found two brand new rotomaster turbos. They are t3 flange turbos. Cold side is .50 a/r the hot side is 1.00 a/r. Is that too big of a hot side? They were this guys dads and his dad passed away and he said his dad got them for 800 a piece. I bidded 400 just to see how high his reserve was and I met his reserve so i am about to get both of these for 400 dollars. Should I get these? Im just really lost with what turbo i need. I used a turbo calculator all night and i just didnt get anywhere. If you could just point me in the direction of a turbo size that will work so I can get this thing running that would be awesome.

 

With those cam specs, I'd honestly run a T4 with a .68-.81 a/r or so. Just like I did on my 401. It will spool very fast and shouldnt hurt too much on the top end. I'd still go with no larger than 62mm on the compressor wheel.

1.00 a/r on a T3 shouldnt be too big. Guys use around that size for turbo 4 cylinder cars and make big hp so I dont think it will kill your top end that much. Never know until you measure the backpressure. I dont know what size turbine those turbos have that you are bidding on, or what size compressor wheel. Very important dimensions to know to get an idea of what they will flow/support.

 

Well what if i bought a t4 header flange and welded it to my t3 header flange and grind out the t3 to match the t4? What size turbo worked well with your setup? i just really need to have a good suggestion so I can get this thing on the road.

 

I dont think you'd beable to open up the T3 to match but thats really not the restriction, its more internal to the housing but atleast it has a 3" downpipe still so you likley can get decent power out of them. I just dont know many using T3's on V8 twin turbos with decent motor builds.

I used T60 T4's on my original 401 with the afr 195 heads. Worked great. Solid combo for 700whp. Very mild on the street too til you got on it.

I think as boost increased however, the .68 housings hurt me on backpressure but I never got a reading. New setup revving to 7K will use .96 housings and T70's. Should be nasty

 

My big concern about those turbos is that my buddy that has done a few straight 6 and 4 cylinder turbo setups said that the rotomaster turbos will spool real late. I dont think you understood what i was saying about the t4 flange. Im saying that i would buy t4 turbos but my exhaust manifolds are for t3 so if I weld a t4 exhaust manifold flange on the t3 so i could use a t4 turbo do you think that would work?

 

oh ok, if you did that it would work fine. its up to you, you can try the T3's and see what it does. If you get to much backpressure you'll want to try a larger turbine and housing, aka T4

 

okay cool. So you dont think those will spool too slow?

 

The turbos you are looking at now? The should light up really quick IMO even with a 1.00 a/r. I dont know the exact dimensions of a T3 housing, but i would like to think a T3 1.00 a/r is smaller than a T4 .81 a/r and maybe similar to a .68 a/r T4. If thats the case it should work well.

A .68 a/r T4 will work great in a p-trim sized turbine wheel on that motor. Same as my setup really, except I had a few more cubes but stroke was the same, heads similar, cam similar but mine was a little smaller for the cubic inches.

 

Okay that sounds good. So a. 68 ar t3 is going to be smaller than a. 68 ar t4? I thought it was just the flange that was different. So the cold side being. 50 ar doesn't seem too small?

 

I'm not 100% sure but I do believe the whole housing is alittle different. I have read that a .68 a/r T4 flows more than a .82 a/r T3, according to the DSM world. It flows more so it makes more power and they say spool is similar. I never had a T3 in my hands to measure

So a 1.00 a/r will likely be around a .68-.81 T4...somewhere in that range and it should work just fine.

 

okay but where does the cold side tie into all this? is the .50 ar too small?

 

compressor side doesnt matter as much... you just need to know the compressor wheel dimensions. inducer and exducer diameters

 

55mm inducer 80mm exducer i think but not 100 percent sure

 

thats a decent size. Sounds like a stage 2 or maybe stage 3 turbo, like a T04E 50 trim wheel which I believe is 54mm/76mm. Should be ok for 350-400 hp per side if pushed. 700-800 hp total but thats stretching it abit. Will be spinning it hard.

Does the compressor housing have atleast a 3" compressor inlet? I would assume so.

 

well since i only want 600-650 hp to start out with so that should be fine. yea it has a 3"