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No its for a 4X CKP SBC with a single coil distributor. So it could be used as is by changing cylinder displacement to match that of a 5.7L and updating the related VE tables for that of a 5.7 engine.
Sorry, might have been some confusion.
I'm running a 400SBC with x24 conversion, and coil per cylinder ignition, so I need to use the LS1 base setup.
Ohhh. Ok makes more sense now. I thought you were wanting to run SBC with vortect 4X setup and a distributor. Completely missed that.
Well if thats the case then all you should need to do is use the LS1 OS as is and just change the banks associated with the injectors. The rest of it would be as if you were tuning a stroked LS1.
And looking back at what you previously posted with the TunerPro screenshots, I think you're trying to use the newer OS with these XDF files. Thats why it gave you the weird numbers in Cylinder Bank and Cylinder firing order. You need to make sure the OS you picked up is 12202088. The newer OS will look like it works with them because a lot of the parameters are in the same location, however, a lot are not.
I sent a email to confirm my question about the avt cable. I have a question about the avt-852 cable. Is revision L the same as revision E with adc added? I am interested in purchasing a avt-852-002. This is the response. Regarding your question: Yes.
Your price for the AVT-852-002 rev. "L" is US$ 259.00
If the shipping address is in the US, then shipping via USPS Priority Mail is free. So order rev. E if your not worried about adding a wideband to log with. Order rev. L if u do want wideband.
Last edited by cjcalhoun85; Jun 30, 2015 at 05:09 PM.
I did a little more digging on the injector fire order question and from what is coded, the firing order is hard coded. What this means is in order to change firing order you change what wires from the PCM goes to specific Injectors in order to alter the firing order. This would be the same for the Ignition Coils, except for with using a SBC with a 4X crank sensor only a regular distributor/coil combination can be used.
Thats the neat thing about these PCMs. The drivers and internal hardware counters just count from 0-(# cyls-1) and then restart again. Very nice for setting them up with other engines. As evilstuie points out you will need to set the bank assignment and correlations. The tables posted look like they are not properly aligned with the address in the calibration. If they are set incorrectly, it will cause cross-talk between the cylinders in regards to the O2 PIDs, which results in the LTFTs winding up to one or the other rail since the cylinder receiving the feedback is not actually tied to that O2. I had this issue when I mixed some of those up.
The distributor for the L31 apps is just a rotor with a cam sensor pickup with amplifier/directly controlled coil. Also much nicer than the old HEI units even if it uses the crab cap. The distributor can be set to any location between the #1 and #2 cylinders, which helps enormously at very high RPMs. The PCM detects its location at start-up and automatically compensates to deliver the correct timing relative to the crank. I have mine set 30 degrees BTDC so the voltage is much less (doesn't overstress the cap and wires) and the breakdown happens much sooner. The module also has a much larger, faster high power switching transistor that's rated to several kV of primary voltage so they are indestructible when set up right. No more having to keep a center console full of ignition modules. Best ignition upgrade I ever made.
A quick question on the L31 app (and I could answer this myself if I looked at the wiring diagram or read what you've decompiled), what ignition channel is the ignition coil driven off of for that application? I would assume just channel 0 from the ignition driver, but I didn't know if it may just be another output trigger.
Also I didn't know that the PCM zero'd the base timing setting of the distributor automatically. This is different than the older PCM's that had a programmed base timing (TBI, 96-97 vortec), correct?
Just curious is all. I've been delving into identifying the output control routines and have put together an excel sheet that identifies what "channel #" (its not so much a channel number as a reference pointer that contains address offset and bit to set) in the code and what output chip that correlates with, along with how the QSM/SPI sends/receives output and diagnostics back for each chip. There are several outputs set up in the code that can be commanded but are not utilized at all.
The distributor for the L31 apps is just a rotor with a cam sensor pickup with amplifier/directly controlled coil. Also much nicer than the old HEI units even if it uses the crab cap. The distributor can be set to any location between the #1 and #2 cylinders, which helps enormously at very high RPMs. The PCM detects its location at start-up and automatically compensates to deliver the correct timing relative to the crank. I have mine set 30 degrees BTDC so the voltage is much less (doesn't overstress the cap and wires) and the breakdown happens much sooner. The module also has a much larger, faster high power switching transistor that's rated to several kV of primary voltage so they are indestructible when set up right. No more having to keep a center console full of ignition modules. Best ignition upgrade I ever made.
I have been running the L31 module and coil for a while now. Much higher mJ output than the other GM pairs. I fire it using the stock module output by voltage translating and inverting the signal. I can run a larger plug gap for a given amount of boost.
It sounds like you are not running one coil per plug with a 411 PCM. Is this an L31 or did you install a 24x wheel? I forget the engine setup you are running.
Do you know of any 2001/2002 disassemblies/hacs floating around? I haven't had the time to start setting up the tools to do a disassemble and would like to look at the code to see how involved it is to extend the map fuel stuff to 2 bar. I still haven't finished the VPW 4x hardware debugging so I have a ways to go. Lots of projects.
So order rev. E if your not worried about adding a wideband to log with. Order rev. L if u do want wideband.
Thanks for the info! If not for the holiday, my rev L would probably be here and I could get started. That being said, I'm linking this thread, an Antus thread from pcmhacking and our 5.3 build thread over at jeepforum to help the next DIY'er who wants license-free tuning. We have a couple 12200411 pcm's to play with and I'm attempting to determine which route to go:
Confirming functionality within Windows 10 with the 852-002 Rev L cable.
I did not attempt testing with the generic driver that Windows appeared to assign to the AVT-852 assembly. Instead I followed the note that came with the cable and manually installed the VCP drivers from here. Looking good so far
Were, can I try the tool? Were to download? And is that a 0411, or 1meg? Can you reflash? I can only read with the la1 flash tool from the other forum!
The PCM in the picture is an 0411 and it's 512k. I have only read the flash as of last night. The tool offers the ability to reflash, but I have not attempted it yet as I have to select an OS first. Still researching, but my understanding is that I can flash changes to my existing bin (OS) or, if I change to a different OS, flashing that bin requires a slightly different procedure.
The PCM in the picture is an 0411 and it's 512k. I have only read the flash as of last night. The tool offers the ability to reflash, but I have not attempted it yet as I have to select an OS first. Still researching, but my understanding is that I can flash changes to my existing bin (OS) or, if I change to a different OS, flashing that bin requires a slightly different procedure.
I'd flash with sps or tis, the reread and tune, flash, changing os, with other flash programs can be risky??
2002 4.3L s10 0411, read prefect, and flashed perfect, I removed vats, updated the checksums and reflashed, perfectly. I read it back, and you could also see, the flash log changed, that you were talking about earlier in the thread. Along with my vats removal, and updated checksums, the rest was identical!
Great job, Anything I can do or favors to repay you, dimented24x7, if you need any GM plugs, I can get em for you, or build bench harnesses
I also Tried a 07 GMC express van PCM, that was SPSs to a 2004 CTS-v, I was able to unlock it, and read the flash, but only saved from the top, to 8meg! Love to get the kernel size updated to 1meg For the record this was service number 12602801 for the 2007 PCM.
Ok I cant seem to get IDA to display any comments?
And dasm68.exe I guess is meant to run on a old windows 95 or 98 machine? on XP, it wont run incompatibility mode for windows 95, on a 32 bit machine?? Frustrated
Ok I cant seem to get IDA to display any comments?
And dasm68.exe I guess is meant to run on a old windows 95 or 98 machine? on XP, it wont run incompatibility mode for windows 95, on a 32 bit machine?? Frustrated
That's a little vague, but I assume you're running a really old version of IDA, or you're asking it to do something it's not capable of, or both.
btw, I reached out to dimented24x7 via email and inquired about the status of an open-source release. It would be nice if we could get this utility to use some of the cheaper interfaces that are floating around.
That's a little vague, but I assume you're running a really old version of IDA, or you're asking it to do something it's not capable of, or both.
btw, I reached out to dimented24x7 via email and inquired about the status of an open-source release. It would be nice if we could get this utility to use some of the cheaper interfaces that are floating around.
What cheaper interfaces are you referring to? I'm intrigued.
That's a little vague, but I assume you're running a really old version of IDA, or you're asking it to do something it's not capable of, or both.
btw, I reached out to dimented24x7 via email and inquired about the status of an open-source release. It would be nice if we could get this utility to use some of the cheaper interfaces that are floating around.
Originally Posted by neruve
What cheaper interfaces are you referring to? I'm intrigued.
I am pretty sure I'm doing it right, I guess there isn't any comments to help guide you as to what things are, demented shoes them, but I think its of the OBD chip, or he has manually added them. Anyway I give up, no way in h*ll I'll ever decipher anything from the disassembly, its just links, and push, mov etc.. nothing that makes any sense to me!
The Avt-852 is only 400.00 or less not bad? I didn't mind paying it.
What cheaper interfaces are you referring to? I'm intrigued.
There is one in particular I have in mind, which seems to support both of the necessary protocols and costs closer to $100. The problem is, neither the manufacturer, nor anyone else I can find, thinks the thing will do VPW 4x, which is a necessity to write to the PCM. Yet their specifications say otherwise. I'm corresponding with dimented about this, and hope to get a final declaration as to what's right/wrong, up/down. Meanwhile I'd prefer not to get anyone's hopes up.
I am pretty sure I'm doing it right, I guess there isn't any comments to help guide you as to what things are, demented shoes them, but I think its of the OBD chip, or he has manually added them. Anyway I give up, no way in h*ll I'll ever decipher anything from the disassembly, its just links, and push, mov etc.. nothing that makes any sense to me!
Yea I remember seeing some .asm he distributed on another forum, but for the '98 blackbox PCM. It was commented rather verbosely. The BIN you pull from the PCM surely won't be commented. Just curious, why hexedit the BIN instead of using TunerPro? Are you working on BINs that aren't for the '01 0411 PCM?
The Avt-852 is only 400.00 or less not bad? I didn't mind paying it.
It's listed at $250 and I don't mind paying, but it's hard to justify when I've already got at least 2 devices that support all the protocols.
There is one in particular I have in mind, which seems to support both of the necessary protocols and costs closer to $100. The problem is, neither the manufacturer, nor anyone else I can find, thinks the thing will do VPW 4x, which is a necessity to write to the PCM. Yet their specifications say otherwise. I'm corresponding with dimented about this, and hope to get a final declaration as to what's right/wrong, up/down. Meanwhile I'd prefer not to get anyone's hopes up.
Originally Posted by letsbangout
Yea I remember seeing some .asm he distributed on another forum, but for the '98 blackbox PCM. It was commented rather verbosely. The BIN you pull from the PCM surely won't be commented. Just curious, why hexedit the BIN instead of using TunerPro? Are you working on BINs that aren't for the '01 0411 PCM?
Yes E40 can based pcm, and E67 pcm. But I was trying the 0411 to see the comments, to learn from, so looks like I'm dissembling properly, were to go from there... no idea.. or I need to read other chip to get the SAE protocols?
It's listed at $250 and I don't mind paying, but it's hard to justify when I've already got at least 2 devices that support all the protocols.
Wow to say the least awesome work was doing some browsing and came across this very interested going to see if I can buy an avt so anyways this one is for dem24-7 was woundering I have a tactrix device they use for Mitsubishi and Subaru think it would work with your software as it supports j1850? Or anyone that might know chime in
Welp, I think I bricked he ECU. I have a 0411 out of a blazer I was trying to flash over to a V8 file. Like a dumbass I didn't read the instructions fully and flashed the entire bin. However, I didn't hit exit flash in the menu and just clicked disconnect and closed the program. Now nothing will communicate with the ECU. I guess that's what happens when you think you know what you are doing and jump the gun.
I would like to know if this can be used to remove VATS???
By itself, no this does nothing but read/write to a supported PCM.
That being said, you can take a read, then use other software out there (if definitions happen to be made for the specific file you are working with) to disable VATS and flash back.
Honestly, if all you want to do is disable VATS, you can buy something like HPTuners, spend the two credits on your car, do what you want, then sell it with the other 6 and total cost will probably be cheaper when all things are done.
This One is for dimented24-7 have been following the post for a wile and have an avt-852 rev L on the way and I read that you were thinking about incorporating it into tuner pro but how about incorporating it into tiny tuner I think Eddie would be cool with it as he wanted to make it a flash tool as well as the editor I use it right now to tune my Pontiac gtp it edits the bin. File and I flash the bin. File with hptuners works great car never ran the way it does now with just using hp and now with hptuners new update they are not allowing the bin. File at all even though they supported it in the past they have know removed it also tiny is very easy to use and add to adding a new IDs to it is fairly easy after playing around a bit and it's an open source program thanks for all your hard work hope to see great things from this once I have my box I'll post any xdf files I make and use or if I map it out on tiny I'll post a data base up for everyone to play with thx again can't wait to start playing
Ok...
I got the AVT-852 cable, bench harness made up and used the LS1Flash tool to grab the bin from my PCM. I have TunerPro for editing, and have found a basic 12225074 XDF to remove VATS, but it doesn't appear to have fuel maps or a lot of other stuff, no trans etc.
The OSID is 12225074 for a VX commodore
and Calibration is 92115988
What is my best option here for tuning?
What is the most complete XDF available and for what OS?
Does the OS really matter if I'm tuning a N/A 400SBC with 4L40E with MAF?
is the 512kB file both the cal and OS or just the cal?
This One is for dimented24-7 have been following the post for a wile and have an avt-852 rev L on the way and I read that you were thinking about incorporating it into tuner pro but how about incorporating it into tiny tuner I think Eddie would be cool with it as he wanted to make it a flash tool as well as the editor I use it right now to tune my Pontiac gtp it edits the bin. File and I flash the bin. File with hptuners works great car never ran the way it does now with just using hp and now with hptuners new update they are not allowing the bin. File at all even though they supported it in the past they have know removed it also tiny is very easy to use and add to adding a new IDs to it is fairly easy after playing around a bit and it's an open source program thanks for all your hard work hope to see great things from this once I have my box I'll post any xdf files I make and use or if I map it out on tiny I'll post a data base up for everyone to play with thx again can't wait to start playing
I don't think I've ever heard of tiny tuner. I'll have to take a look into it. Haven't had much time lately to work on the flash tool, tho I'll get back into it when I start my LS1 swap, but that has to wait until I fix a few cars I have sitting at the moment.
Last edited by dimented24x7; May 22, 2016 at 02:15 AM.
Ok...
I got the AVT-852 cable, bench harness made up and used the LS1Flash tool to grab the bin from my PCM. I have TunerPro for editing, and have found a basic 12225074 XDF to remove VATS, but it doesn't appear to have fuel maps or a lot of other stuff, no trans etc.
The OSID is 12225074 for a VX commodore
and Calibration is 92115988
What is my best option here for tuning?
What is the most complete XDF available and for what OS?
Does the OS really matter if I'm tuning a N/A 400SBC with 4L40E with MAF?
is the 512kB file both the cal and OS or just the cal?
The OS matters insofar as the locations of the constants are concerned. Different OS' map the constants to different locations. Who was the author of the XDF? I did post a hack of the '411 PCM with a 2001 OS a while back. You can use that as a guide to help expand your specific XDFs. You would have to use a HEX editor to verify the table locations, but its likely similar enough that you can sort through the basics like the VE and spark tables.
Hi Dimented,
I almost had the car going, but lots of coughing and spluttering but no roar.
I figured it was the tune, and found a L31 x24 tune someone on the gearhead-efi forums sent me to try and use to start the car.
I loaded it on with your software and all was good, but as it was a different os, i used the OS flash option, and now the PCM is inaccessible. I cant use the avt cable, and when i plug the pcm back in the car, even the obd2 scanner i have cant detect it.
The fuel pump primes for half a sec then shuts off and i have no fuel or spark.
Is there anyway to recover the PCM?
The software wont connect, i tried antus's LS1 tool to connect but it wont connect either.
I missed that part the first time. Yeah, that will probably cause the PCM to not boot with the cal only if your changing to another OS from another PCM. As long as you can verify that the bin is completly uncompressed and not altered, the full flash should work. As I said it will need to be done in two steps using the advanced feature for the OS since an OS write is not desirable unless you want to change the OS to something else. When doing them both, dont exit out of the utility between flashes, but do them one after the other and the PCM will be fully flashed. While I have not had an OS flash fail, be forwarned that if it really does brick, you will have to open the PCM up to manually reset it. Right now it sounds like the PCM is just having a mismatch in the calibration, and returning an error.
This looks like what I may have done.
What can you do inside the PCM to reset it?
I don't think I've ever heard of tiny tuner. I'll have to take a look into it. Haven't had much time lately to work on the flash tool, tho I'll get back into it when I start my LS1 swap, but that has to wait until I fix a few cars I have sitting at the moment.
Ok, so still really wanting to recover my dead PCM, but also very impatient.
I bought a second hand PCM today, its a 09354896 unit not 12200411 but I'm told their identical and confirmed on the net.
It has a different OS to the ones I've been working with, so what is the EXACT procedure for changing an OS with your software, and is it a guaranteed flash or is there a chance for this one to also brick?
I'm using a test bench harness with a modified ATX PSU to give constant voltage to the unit, with an AVT-852 cable and box.
Well what a **** around this turned out to be.
I'm now out $250 following the the instructions in the posts to OS flash with this program.
Add in the $400 it cost me for the AVT box and I should've just bought EFI Live, I guess that's on me.
I'm all for DIY alternatives but this is now costing more than the commercial alternative.
You mentioned in your first few posts the OS flash will "brick the unit" if it fails, but go on to mention grounding an address line internally.
Are you able to elaborate on that, is it a discharge ground, or ground while powered on, and where specifically is this address lines physical location on the board/chip?
Last edited by evilstuie; Jun 27, 2016 at 04:15 PM.
I'm assuming this is related to the AB28F400B5 flash chip in the PCM
I found this on the Intel data sheet for the chip, but still decyphering all this foreign tech terminology into english:
When CE# and RP# pins are at VCC, the
component enters a CMOS standby mode. Driving
RP# to GND enables a deep power-down mode
which significantly reduces power consumption,
provides write protection, resets the device, and
clears the status register. A reset time (tPHQV) is
required from RP# switching high until outputs are
valid. Likewise, the device has a wake time (tPHEL)
from RP#-high until writes to the CUI are
recognized. See Section 4.2.
The deep power-down mode can also be used as a
device reset, allowing the flash to be reset along
with the rest of the system. For example, when the
flash memory powers-up, it automatically defaults
to the read array mode, but during a warm system
reset, where power continues uninterrupted to the
system components, the flash memory could
remain in a non-read mode, such as erase.
Consequently, the system Reset signal should be
tied to RP# to reset the memory to normal read
mode upon activation of the Reset signal. This also
provides protection against unwanted command
writes due to invalid system bus conditions during
system reset or power-up/down sequences.
And the definition for the #RP pin:
RESET/DEEP POWER-DOWN: Uses three voltage levels (VIL, VIH, and VHH) to
control two different functions: reset/deep power-down mode and boot block
unlocking. It is backwards-compatible with the BX/BL/BV products.
I still don't think these will give me an answer on their own, even if I manually apply voltage or grounding (still not sure which for which) to these during power up, I think your software would still need to manually force flash the bin on yes?
I'm looking at buying a TL866A flasher and desoldering the chip to see if i can read it and what happened exactly, but I don't think I'll have the skill and coordination to solder the chip back on.
At least if I can do this i can flash the chip with the correct OS, then solder back onto the PCM
I just bought this cable. Avt-852. Bricked all my pcms. I suggest do not use it. I found another tool I was able to use, quite easily and cheap. If you bricked your pcm, and want a 2002 OS, I can fix any 0411 pcm that's been bricked by this software.
Sorry for the bad news. But this program is a HACK. It doesn't flash correctly.
If not for the holiday, my rev L would probably be here and I could get started. That being said, I'm linking this thread, an Antus thread from pcmhacking and our 5.3 build thread over at jeepforum to help the next DIY'er who wants license-free tuning. We have a couple 12200411 pcm's to play with and I'm attempting to determine which route to go:
also tiny is very easy to use and add to adding a new IDs to it is fairly easy after playing around a bit and it's an open source program 
