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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
It's interesting because two weeks ago that emblem above would have passed by me as an original GM. It does look nice & straight on that bumper too.
But now, the skinny legs on the 'E" & the "C" jump out at me.
I have a gold TPI emblem from an unknown source which is obviously NOT in a GM wrapper. It looks EXACTLY like a factory piece. The plastic, the lettering, the paint, everything.
I'll post pictures of it when I get home, but it may be as Drew mentioned, that the aftermarket "reproduction" ones were NOS pieces until inventory ran out.
Man....if that's true....I should have bought a bunch of them back then.
I have a gold TPI emblem from an unknown source which is obviously NOT in a GM wrapper. It looks EXACTLY like a factory piece. The plastic, the lettering, the paint, everything.
I'll post pictures of it when I get home, but it may be as Drew mentioned, that the aftermarket "reproduction" ones were NOS pieces until inventory ran out.
Man....if that's true....I should have bought a bunch of them back then.
I had a several Irocs in the early 1990's when they were at every stoplight. I would buy them when they were a little edgy, or needed a partial repaint, etc. If I would have had a clue, I would have ordered all kinds of parts & held on to them
I have an invoice from the chevy dealer where I bought a new set of Floor mats because my drivers side was showing some heel wear. Honestly think they were something like $40 for the pair. Dang, would I like to go back & order a bunch of those now...
I'll have to dig out the receipt, I still have it for self tormenting reasons...
The ones that get me are the NOS parts I gave away with cars I sold, or sold cheap because I didn't need them. I've got piles of receipts in my file folders, the prices are unreal compared to what they sell for now on Ebay. And people used to complain about dealer prices.
This is the emblem I was talking about. It looks IDENTICAL to a factory piece. Same thickness plastic, matt black, same lettering, etc. I am positive the GM Restoration one I got for my yellow '85 was identical to this one, ie., perfect.
That is outrageous. I'd call and complain. It's their fault you returned it because they sent you an inferior product. Obviously $7 doesn't matter in the real world but it's just the principle of the matter.
Originally Posted by Bob88GTA
WOW!
They charged you a $6.99 "restocking fee" for an item they cannot use.......
hummmm, makes sense....I guess. Sell it to the next guy.
They can't restock a part that was installed and is flawed. I would demand the fee back. Let them know that their reputation is on the line with this on this forum as many people already complain about them, and the rest of us are hoping for smooth transactions.
That is outrageous. I'd call and complain. It's their fault you returned it because they sent you an inferior product. Obviously $7 doesn't matter in the real world but it's just the principle of the matter.
Yeah, it's not about the 7 bucks.
I am going to complain. I'm pissed. It's insulting. And what does "attempted to install" mean? Like I tried and gave up and now want a refund?
I consider my black '89 to be a concours quality 3rd gen, which I've spent a lot of time getting the finish swirl free and as good as I can get it. Did I mention it's black? Because of the POS Hawks emblem, I've had to manhandle the finish on the rear bumper twice now, and now have some paint correction to do. Plus, I was forced to source an expensive NOS piece to replace the factory one I removed.
It's my own fault. I should have looked at that piece closely before installing. I just assumed it would be a quality piece from Hawks. You know what they say when you assume......
They can't restock a part that was installed and is flawed. I would demand the fee back. Let them know that their reputation is on the line with this on this forum as many people already complain about them, and the rest of us are hoping for smooth transactions.
Just spoke to Bruce Hawks. He agrees the part I got was below the quality I should have gotten. He also wants to compare it to other ones in their inventory.
He will take care of the restocking fee as well.
As I told Bruce, the point of all this is not the 35 bucks, it's that we want to make sure that the replacement parts we get from Hawks are quality pieces. I think Bruce agrees.
Charlie, back when you started this thread, I was patiently waiting for my GTA 17's to come in. I was sweating it. Upon opening and inspecting the wheels, all was well. I didn't really know what to expect!
Glad this may help all out with the repro stuff from Hawks.
Charlie, back when you started this thread, I was patiently waiting for my GTA 17's to come in. I was sweating it. Upon opening and inspecting the wheels, all was well. I didn't really know what to expect!
Glad this may help all out with the repro stuff from Hawks.
Great to hear, Bob! I think we all agree, we just want high quality parts from our vendors for our coveted cars.
The follow-up response isn't very reassuring. What it tells me is that they dick everyone over several times before trying to do right by the customer. What good is it that they listen when you talk to the CEO, if they tried to sell you garbage, then tried to charge you a restocking fee, etc...
I've never cared for Hawks. Way back when they dealt almost exclusively in used parts, they always had the highest prices. Now that they have the reproduction thirdgen market pretty much cornered, most of what they sell seems to be crap, and the prices are still out of line with reality. I don't know how they seem to get away with it. Customers that just accept the low quality because they don't want to fight it out, or don't know any better? They have a few things I'd like to buy, but I don't really want to support their business when I don't agree with their practices. Unfortunately there isn't much alternative. Other vendors appear to be selling parts sourced from Hawks, so you're still getting garbage.
Amazing with 3D printing technology, why we can't get PERFECT badges?
This is what Im thinking.
Maybe one day we will have the luxury of doing this (the classic car industry as a whole) and then we can once and for all put these junk re-pop parts jockeys out of business.
The follow-up response isn't very reassuring. What it tells me is that they dick everyone over several times before trying to do right by the customer. What good is it that they listen when you talk to the CEO, if they tried to sell you garbage, then tried to charge you a restocking fee, etc...
I've never cared for Hawks. Way back when they dealt almost exclusively in used parts, they always had the highest prices. Now that they have the reproduction thirdgen market pretty much cornered, most of what they sell seems to be crap, and the prices are still out of line with reality. I don't know how they seem to get away with it. Customers that just accept the low quality because they don't want to fight it out, or don't know any better? They have a few things I'd like to buy, but I don't really want to support their business when I don't agree with their practices. Unfortunately there isn't much alternative. Other vendors appear to be selling parts sourced from Hawks, so you're still getting garbage.
HI Drew,
Sorry you feel they way you do and you obviously have options not having all the facts , if you don't want to support us is totally your choice , but honestly if we have parts you want and you have a opinion on our practices why not verify what the practice is before assuming your assumption is correct. To be honest I find alot of customers 'Think" they know how we practice when in reality they for one reason or another have a negative problem with a price or in this case how they "THINK" something is made. for example the particular part in this thread is manufactured by a GM LICENSED distributor in Australia and not by HAWKS, the emblem was actually not bent but was installed where it looked so and could have been very easily corrected IF the paint on the emblem had been correct but fact is it is not correct and was not even to our standard and we are working with the manufacture to get this corrected . No one nor no process is always perfect and in a lot of cases a simple phone call to let someone know there is a issue versus board slamming goes a long way as we want what most customers want, a great product at a great price. I am not hear trying to make a excuse or sway someones opinion but if your are going to feel strongly in one direction should you not have all the facts and no assumptions . Also in this case the restock fee was a simple normal procedure on a return and in this case did not fit and there should have been no restock fee. On a separate note on pricing on reproduction parts I have found most all customers do not even have a clue what it cost to get a part to reproduction much less the 10% premium you have to pay GM for it just to be approved . so in the case someone spends 5K-20K plus on tooling alone to get a part to market, a simple 35.00 or what ever the cost is a very fair price to pay . I do agree the ford market is MUCH cheaper than the GM but I assure you that in the case of this emblem the amount of profit is not hardly worth the time to type this response and we as fellow third gen community want the best quality parts to market at a fair price as you do so we can sale a quantity due to quality . Again no one is perfect and this particular part is being corrected and we apologize for the inconvenience. Drew I would love a conversation on the phone with you and love to have a chance to earn your business !
Thanks Bruce www.hawksmotorsports.com
Actually it WAS bent. It was shipped in an envelope and only taped to a piece of cardboard for support. How could it not arrive bent?
I tried to straighten it, but I guess it was just too bent.
Previous reproduction emblems I've bought came in a box with a "GM Restoration" or something like that sticker on it. The NOS piece I bought to replace it, came in a GM bag and was shipped in a box. If it doesn't get shipped in a box, there is a good chance it will be damaged in shipping.
I sure have learned some things because of this. I've found someone who has a bunch of original emblems which were made for GM, but the facility closed and never had the adhesive tape applied to the back.
I'm trying to see how many they have. Maybe I'll buy them out and start supplying them to more discriminating enthusiasts.
Bruce, I appreciated talking to you on the phone, but honestly if I were you, I'd $h!tcan the supplier of those emblems and find a better one.
Hi.. In the past few weeks we've had about 1,000 of the Silver TPI emblems pulled and some of the gold ones. Red ones that were retooled recently are excellent. At SOME time..over the last maybe 24 months while in storage.. making these in batches of 2000 or so .. I suspect SOME have sweated.. in the plastic they are sealed in & packed down... that has effected some paint finishes. Some not all.
We put a slither of cardboard with the emblems each to help hold them firm. OEM were historically in plastic too, but not supported. The effect of storage, compression & heat seems to have buggered the paint on many.. may be described as flat or rough edged. Not horrid.. but we are cutting up heaps of them. If a product changes or its quality is crook.. we kill it.. like scores of perfect '89 TTA emblems with the pin 3/4 inch out.. bloody sad but so be it.. The 1979-81 Tail lamp lenses.. there's a heap of photos going around of about 50 being stood on..guys were crying about it.. but .. minor imperfections count.
In about 8 weeks ..as we have just finished redoing the red series better.. I'll re-release the Silver TPI emblems. The paint harder but not crack off or flare on any sides.... paint hardened but not melting the plastic the OEM ones were designed form. They really should be made of metel/ alloy.. but it's not viable ..and not original. To date in the last 6-7 years..we'd supplied probably 2,000 of these to owners.. this issue today has not been a long term one.
We want everything perfect.... the next batch may cost a bit more.. and will be better, but still nothing like NOS $.
If anybody that has purchased one of our emblems EVER.. (proof may be needed) and has an issue .. contact me -
.. Chazman.. as the new tooling is already done .. we expect to have more silver and more gold out in about 8 weeks. Keep in touch and i will send you a new one.
(Dave Clee) pwdistribution@gmail.com. Unlike our politicians... we don't run out of ethics.
Last edited by DMCPONT; Jul 18, 2017 at 06:21 AM.
Reason: spellcheck
I for one appreciate that the manufacturer and supplier of these parts are actively engaged in this conversation and are both working to better their products. As the producer of a few specialty parts to third gens and earlier GTO's I know what goes into the production of parts and the little that you make off of them is almost thankless!
Hi.. In the past few weeks we've had about 1,000 of the Silver TPI emblems pulled and some of the gold ones. Red ones that were retooled recently are excellent. At SOME time..over the last maybe 24 months while in storage.. making these in batches of 2000 or so .. I suspect SOME have sweated.. in the plastic they are sealed in & packed down... that has effected some paint finishes. Some not all.
We put a slither of cardboard with the emblems each to help hold them firm. OEM were historically in plastic too, but not supported. The effect of storage, compression & heat seems to have buggered the paint on many.. may be described as flat or rough edged. Not horrid.. but we are cutting up heaps of them. If a product changes or its quality is crook.. we kill it.. like scores of perfect '89 TTA emblems with the pin 3/4 inch out.. bloody sad but so be it.. The 1979-81 Tail lamp lenses.. there's a heap of photos going around of about 50 being stood on..guys were crying about it.. but .. minor imperfections count.
In about 8 weeks ..as we have just finished redoing the red series better.. I'll re-release the Silver TPI emblems. The paint harder but not crack off or flare on any sides.... paint hardened but not melting the plastic the OEM ones were designed form. They really should be made of metel/ alloy.. but it's not viable ..and not original. To date in the last 6-7 years..we'd supplied probably 2,000 of these to owners.. this issue today has not been a long term one.
We want everything perfect.... the next batch may cost a bit more.. and will be better, but still nothing like NOS $.
If anybody that has purchased one of our emblems EVER.. (proof may be needed) and has an issue .. contact me -
.. Chazman.. as the new tooling is already done .. we expect to have more silver and more gold out in about 8 weeks. Keep in touch and i will send you a new one.
(Dave Clee) pwdistribution@gmail.com. Unlike our politicians... we don't run out of ethics.
Thanks for posting Dave. And yes, I will take you up on your offer. We'll talk in about 8 weeks.
Regarding the next batch costing a few bucks more, if they are perfect, fine with me.
I for one appreciate that the manufacturer and supplier of these parts are actively engaged in this conversation and are both working to better their products.
Absolutely. It goes a long way to showing that the feedback has been heard, and the problem is being addressed.
I found a source with actual NOS TPI emblems. They were produced for GM but never had the adhesive tape applied. The emblem I got is literally PERFECT. I think I'm going to try and get a few more. I'll post a pic later when my computer is back up.
Here it is. The real deal. Manufactured by Dott Industries in Michigan back in the day. This one is at least as nice as the one I just paid $100 for. Actually nicer. Perfect letters and paint. The correct plastic. Everything. The only thing is it doesn't have the adhesive tape added.
He had a couple dozen left, but some of them are scratched. I told him I'd buy 10 more if they are perfect. I let you know when they come in.
I replaced the one on my '86 a couple weeks ago. Just like the one Chazman posted above, it had no adhesive on it. It's the exact size as the original, and the lettering looks correct to me.
I replaced the one on my '86 a couple weeks ago. Just like the one Chazman posted above, it had no adhesive on it. It's the exact size as the original, and the lettering looks correct to me.
Very interesting thread. My original is faded on a couple letters and it’s my last bit of exterior trim that remains unaddressed. I keep going back and forth on “touch up” (which I just know I couldn’t do to 100% quality) or just shell out for best A-M (which brings attendant paint damage risk on the flip). I wonder if Hawks ever improved the design? http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/cama...emblem-silver/
PWD certainly sound like they went the limit since posting. Chaz did you end up getting theirs?
Very interesting thread. My original is faded on a couple letters and it’s my last bit of exterior trim that remains unaddressed. I keep going back and forth on “touch up” (which I just know I couldn’t do to 100% quality) or just shell out for best A-M (which brings attendant paint damage risk on the flip). I wonder if Hawks ever improved the design? http://www.hawksmotorsports.com/cama...emblem-silver/
PWD certainly sound like they went the limit since posting. Chaz did you end up getting theirs?
PWD supplies Hawks as well as others. Dave said that they re-engineered the emblems after my complaining. Waiting for a remastered emblem to come in the mail. I'll post a pic when I get it.
I now have a life time supply of silver OEM "TUNED PORT INJECTION" emblems. I may put a few on eBay, since I can't imagine I'll ever use them all.
I now have a life time supply of silver OEM "TUNED PORT INJECTION" emblems. I may put a few on eBay, since I can't imagine I'll ever use them all.
I can relate. Picked up three NOS heater cores, 6 pairs of hatch strut rods, 50ft rolls of tank strap foam, 25 window stop bumpers, 4 speedometer gear seals, and a dozen power lock switches, all in the last month or so. Such are the joys of multiple project cars. Figure if one car needs something, the others probably aren't far behind. Combine that with making the most out of shipping fees, and well... "My name is Drew, and I'm a parts hoarder."
Keep meaning to list some of the stuff I know I'll never use for sale, but I kind of look at my stash as a rainy day fund.
Keep meaning to list some of the stuff I know I'll never use for sale, but I kind of look at my stash as a rainy day fund.
It'll become a burden that eats at you. Imagine if you had taken that money each time you hit "confirm order" and had bought Amazon, Apple, Facebook or Netflix - you'd have a better fund already.
PWD supplies Hawks as well as others. Dave said that they re-engineered the emblems after my complaining. Waiting for a remastered emblem to come in the mail. I'll post a pic when I get it.
Ah lost the plot there. See that now, thanks Chaz. I look forward to your thoughts on the revised design.
I can relate. Picked up three NOS heater cores, 6 pairs of hatch strut rods, 50ft rolls of tank strap foam, 25 window stop bumpers, 4 speedometer gear seals, and a dozen power lock switches, all in the last month or so. Such are the joys of multiple project cars. Figure if one car needs something, the others probably aren't far behind. Combine that with making the most out of shipping fees, and well... "My name is Drew, and I'm a parts hoarder."
Keep meaning to list some of the stuff I know I'll never use for sale, but I kind of look at my stash as a rainy day fund.
What does an NOS heater core go for? And where might one buy one?
I should clarify, by NOS I mean New Old Stock, as in inventory that had been on the shelf awhile, not necessarily NOS GM. Finding a Harrison heater core, still new in the box would probably take awhile, and hit the wallet hard. I was specifically after oldschool Copper/Brass & Lead heater cores, from back when the EPA hadn't made anything with lead illegal, and you could buy a heater core that would actually fit.
Ebay, look for pics that show brass, verify with the seller that what they're selling matches the pics before buying. Found what I needed in less than 24hrs and spent less than Advance Auto gets for an aluminum junker that doesn't fit for poop.
Ah lost the plot there. See that now, thanks Chaz. I look forward to your thoughts on the revised design.
We may or may not see if this thread had any impact on the replacement parts we buy for our cars. Since I started this thread, I have built up a life time supply of factory OEM silver TUNED PORT INJECTION emblems.
I just want to see a what the new, remastered ones look like. Perhaps the reason I haven't gotten one as promised months ago, is that they are still the same and not improved or remastered??? Hope that's not the case!
BTW, a quick look on eBay shows nothing but reproduction emblems now, so the factory GM ones may be pretty much gone, even at any price.
