I spoke to Cindy at Kelsey Tire this morning. I also spoke with a manager as well. The phone number to Kelsey is 573-346-2506. I was told directly by both of them that there are currently no active plans to make any 245/50/ZR16 Goodyear Eagle ZR50 Gatorback tires. Cindy told me that they are aware that there is some demand for these tires and they are looking into reproducing them at the moment, but there is nothing set in stone, and she also told me that if they do decide to reproduce them, they will not be available for at least 5 years. She told me that Rusty (who I have never met or spoken with) is just a tire distributor for them, and so I think it is safe to assume that the most accurate information is this information that I was told directly from Kelsey Tires. Hopefully one day they will make repops of our tires, but that is far from certain and it isn't going to happen for at least 5 years.

 

That sucks! Time to call Cindy at Kelsey.

 

Just spoke to Mile at Kelsey. The issue is getting the tooling at a factory to produce them. The 225/60/15s for the Mustang are being hand made - that's why they are so expensive. Kelsey would like to make the 255 and 245s more conventionally in order to bring them in at a better price point.

He also mentioned that the ONLY reason they even are considering 245s is because WE keep calling them.


So....keep calling!

Anyway, under no circumstance will these be available before 2 years, more like several years.

 

You guys realize you've already been nagging them for 5 years. In that five years less than 200 users on a forum with nearly 200,000 members have voted in an anonymous poll that they'd even be interested. And that's before you're even asking anyone to put any money on the table.

There comes a time when perhaps you need to be realistic about your expectations. These folks work in customer service, they aren't going to tell you to go away. But they'll give you a fuzzy timeline to get you out of their hair.

Maybe instead of focusing on tires that were crap when they were new, you could put some of that energy into petitioning SLP to bring back their catalog of thirdgen parts. Or get BBK to finally sell the turtleram. Spread that enthusiasm around a bit.

 

Agreed. I would love to see SLP bring back their third gen catalog. If they do ever end up repopping our gatorbacks the reality is that it is not going to happen, if at all, for several years. So for folks who are trying to keep their car original and want to have Gatorbacks on them for their look and authenticity, you just have to buy a set of original production gatorbacks when they pop up for sale. And if they do end up making repop gatorbacks, they are going to be at least $350 per tire based on their current pricing for other tires that are of a similar elk.

 

I disagree about them being crap. And anyone who is going to spend the $1500+ to get a set of 4 of these if they are repopped are not buying them because they are the ultimate performance tire. We would be buying them for the look and the authenticity that they definitely bring to a 87-92 F body that was originally equipped with these tires. If they do repop them at some point, I will be ordering a set (if not 2) right away, as I love the way the look and appreciate the authentic factor.

 

As far as SLP goes, they have stated to me that absolutely, positively will never, ever do another 3rd gen part again.

 

That is a shame. SLP, Accel/Holley, Goodyear and GM itself, just to mention a few...all of these performance and restoration companies that used to make these awesome parts for our cars have basically discontinued production of many desirable parts that I feel people who own third gens now would be more likely to buy today than people were 10 years ago when you could still get a lot of the good stuff that was still being manufactured...Thank goodness for places like Hawks and Classic Industries and Lon at TDS for trying to make and sell good stuff to keep our cars going!

 

No real input here, Just gonna vent...

We can go to the moon, build a space station 240 miles up in the air, send satellites into space so our cell phones ,TV's, GPS, and such work. We can even produce cars that drive AND park themselves. All this technology and advancement......yet we can't/won't reverse engineer a tire. Kinda sad.

I was in, but I'll spend my 3 grand on a bunch of Nittos or something....hell in 5 years I might have a new hobby.

Vent over. Carry on

 

I know. Kelsey would say the same thing, but they obviously want to placate those who are calling, rather than make people angry. It's a win-win for them to say "Oh yeah, just another 5 or 10 years, thanks for calling!"

 

We definitely can reverse engineer a tire. But can we do it for a profit? That's the key.

 

The difference is that Kelsey actually did repro the 225/60/15 Gatorback for the Mustang.

It sounds like they don't want to make the the 255/50/16 and 245/50/16 the same way, however.

 

There. I fixed it for you.

Sorry man, I was rooting for you to come out victorious, but they sure seem to be blowing copious volumes of smoke up your butt.

 

I do admit that the latest news is a punch to the gut.

I don't think it's pure smoke up my butt, though. Kelsey has had a set of original 245/50/16 Gatorbacks to use as a model for years now. Rusty suggested that they may be interested in borrowing one of mine, (as a sample), maybe 5 years ago.


I think the issue with the 255 and 245 is that Kelsey wants it mass produced with actual tooling, so they can be made more inexpensively and sold at a lower price point than the 225/60/15, which is hand made.

Anyway, I'm not happy about the news nor the delays, but nothing ever gets accomplished by giving up. And I'm not giving up.

 

"Nothing ever gets accomplished by giving up. And I'm not giving up".





Solid advice to apply in life too.

 

I think they will eventually repop our gatorbacks but it's going to take more than 10 years. I think third gens are just finally starting to get the respect they deserve, but more people need to own them who have money to spend on them like folks who own first gen f bodies before it will be profitable enough for a company to remanufacture these sorts of parts.

 

The 5000 lb elephant in the middle of the room is the one that a good portion of gen 3 guys hold most dear.

in 1984/85 I worked directly with Goodyear in Akron to convince them that they could reproduce the Polyglass GT and actualy sell it.

They (GoodYear) (not Kelsey or Coker) agreed to do a test run in a then operational bias ply plant down in South America - specifically Argentina. The key discussion point was the (then) restoration value of the cars vs the cost to produce and ship the tire back to the US.

This is a far bigger story and I ended up with one of the very first sets off the boat at $200 a tire to fit a car (my 70 z28)- that was trading on average $8-10K all day long-but i digress.... .

In other words are our third Gen cars currently valuable enough to justify the now Kelsey or Coker investment - and if you are one of those tire guys the question is "will we sell enough of these $350 a piece tires for cars that are trading right now around or under $15K"?

I believe the basic question from 1985 was framed with a vastly different regulatory climate and a booming Reagan era economy. At that time the hobby was setting and cheer-leading exponential value increases of the Muscle cars within single 6 month periods where guys were buying cars and doubling the value upon sale.

Today the vendors have current tire safety regulations to contend with and as a group the third Gen hobby is currently split with a significant portion of the owners wanting to keep these cars very affordable. This is quite noble, and reflects the salt of the earth group we have here and the economic reality of the times we are living in...you guys are also kind and caring to everybody who enters the hobby.

Back to the 5000 lb elephant in the middle of the room it is is without question average resale value.

I will tell you this-when Z28's IROC's and T/A's and GTA's starting bringing $40-50K or more on average at the auctions then this conversation fundamentally changes for the restoration tire vendors, till then this is where we find ourselves.

 

I have an original set of Gatorbacks that I got with my IROC I recently purchased. They have approximately 12,000 km on them (7500 miles) and are in good shape. I guess I better set them aside and get another set of tires to drive on...

 

Yes, they're not safe to drive on. All they're good for at this point is show.

 

Would buy for looks only, Goodyears are a crappy ride IMHO.

 

What is SLP's issue? Its so asinine. They've killed off almost all their 4th gen parts also. Why kill them? The cars are still popular, and it isn't like the R&D and tooling isn't long paid for.

Why not make parts that made them famous?

 

Post #567 and it would most likely cost double to build and then buy those parts these days.
I would like to see a restoration side to SLPs operation myself.

 

There is a lot more money to be made on new car production than aftermarket. When you can sell a guaranteed 16 units a week it makes life a whole lot easier. They could set up and make a small batch ere or there, but it ends up being a pain, because then you have to store the parts, Then if they do not sell at the end of the year they pay taxes on those unsold parts.

John

 

From another site today, I posted to SmallHurst:



He responded:

 

Rusty is just a re-seller, a dealer that doesn't have a building or a storefront but delivers to guys like us at shows. He has no more pull than we do - in fact we may have more.

I like Rusty, but I think he's misleading in his role with the manufacturer.

 

I agree! Or a lousy fiberboard headliner???

 

Spot on

 

Just bought me 3 sets of the Kelsey GoodYear Gatorback 245/50/16's today!!!!!!!

NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Still at a stand still? Seen it mentioned over on #$%@book that they were bringing them back! Yeah, I laughed.

Thought I would check in on the 6 year old thread.

 

It's still the 16" mold size thats primarily preventing it, correct?
It's been so long I am forgetting

 

That is correct. The 15" Mustang Gators can be hand made.

I spoke to Rusty at MCACN last fall and I said WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If Kelsey made them, they'd sell 1000 tires in the first week. He said it's all about who's going to pay for the mold. I said that I know about 50 guys who'd be willing to chip in.

He also said that realistically they are 2 to 3 years out.

 

Thanks for the update Charlie. I just bought 2 more sets of BFG Comps.

 

Yeah, I can't hold out much longer, I'm getting a set of BFGs in the Spring.

 

I'm shocked. Utterly dismayed that I won't be able to pay far, far, out the *** for the worst "performance" tire I've ever owned.

Maybe part of the reason they don't want to do it is that they don't want to subject themselves to the liability. If Gatorbacks had been a bit better, there probably wouldn't have been so many smashed thirdgens in the junkyards back in the early 90s.

My Formula was pretty much impossible to drive on damp or cold pavement with Goodyear RS-As. Had a pair of GSCs on the back for awhile, equally terrible. However, they made for awesome burnouts. Best thing I ever did was put BFGs on it. Hell even my TBI convertible will spin the Goodyear Eagles.

 

Yes, but such a good looking tire

 

Don't be a party pooper, Drew!


IMHO, nothing completes the look of our cars like a set of Gatorbacks. When mine were new, I think they performed pretty well. Not so much 10 years later. Even worse when they got to be 20. The new ones would be made with modern compounds though, just like the Mustang's 225/60/15s. BTW, Kelsey has sold enough of those where they've had to do a few runs. Personally, I think the 245/50/16s will sell way better.

 

I think it was because there just wasn't a tire on that market that looked that aggressive, or in that profile at the time. When I first saw them on a new Iroc at the dealer, my jaw pretty much hit the floor.

 

A few months ago, i picked up a set of low mile formula wheels and Goodyear 245/50/16 ZR tires for shows. Got "Tired" of waiting

 

<Drool> or <Drewl>

Love the look of clean Formula wheels. Even down to the coated weights that fit the rim!!!

Am I the only one who aligns the centercap text with the "Pontiac" spoke? LOL

 

Picked up a set of Gatorbacks with these wheels. Couldn’t believe my eyes when I first saw them

 

Nice!

 

My car had 2x factory Gatorbacks and the previous (original) owner told me 2 others were changed under warranty after a couple of years.

He had bought the car for his wife. Someone at the dealer had swapped the 15s for the those with Gatorbacks. After a month and half of driving she span out in a heavy rainstorm getting on the highway. She told him she never wanted to drive the car again, rain or shine haha!

 

Funny, the girl that had my Formula put it in the median twice in one trip and decided to trade it in. I was fine until the first chilly night with a hint of moisture in the air. I was the only car on the road at midnight +10 or 15 minutes. Pulled in the left turn lane and tickled the brakes a second to scrub a little speed before making the turn. Wheels locked up, and the car slid almost through the intersection. Considering it was my everyday commute home, and I'd been driving that road, at that time, for a few years at that point, I really wasn't pushing it... Goodyear tires are just THAT $hitty. Put BFGs on it a few days later, never had traction issues again.

 

Lolol! I know they were performance cars but why put such a shitty rain tire on them sighhh.

 

Gatorbacks were not a great tire then, and certainly tire technology has marched-on. No, would not buy.

 

I want to say that at the time, the Goodyear Eagle VR50 was the only game in town for a tire of that size. In 1984 (15th Anniversary T/A was first to get 16" wheels) a 245/50VR16 was fancy. On dry pavement, by 1984 standards, they were pretty decent. Especially considering there weren't many alternatives.

Living in South Dakota with 6 months a year under threat of snow, it was pretty common to just not drive cars like that between October and March. Oddly, the only tires I had trouble with, were Goodyear tires.

 

In the dry, Gatorbacks were great performers in their day, top tier tires. In the rain, not that great. But many/all performance tires of the day were bad in the rain. It was almost expected. Ironic, since the Gatorbacks were developed from Goodyear's Formula One race rain tire.

So what do you do? Maybe drive a little slower and brake a little earlier when you're in the rain with your hot performance car. I mean, come on, put on your big boy whitie tities and suck it up.

Drive through one winter in Chicago and you'll be an inclement weather veteran driver.

 

Ha! Crom laughs at your Chicago winter!








^^^Yeah, that's at least 6" of solid ice.^^^




I'm pretty sure I've earned my inclement weather merit badge.

 

WTF! Are those Spring time pictures?

 

Yes. :|

 

There was a learning curve when the "new" performance tires came out.

Wide flat tire tread is terrible in krappy weather. Slap some snow tires on the rear, skinny tires on the front, weight in hatch and march right on through the nasty stuff like everyone else did.

People used to swap to winter tires all the time. Not sure why that went away, esp if you only have 1 car. (global warming? LMFAO)