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If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
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Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
I spoke to Cindy at Kelsey Tire this morning. I also spoke with a manager as well. The phone number to Kelsey is 573-346-2506. I was told directly by both of them that there are currently no active plans to make any 245/50/ZR16 Goodyear Eagle ZR50 Gatorback tires. Cindy told me that they are aware that there is some demand for these tires and they are looking into reproducing them at the moment, but there is nothing set in stone, and she also told me that if they do decide to reproduce them, they will not be available for at least 5 years. She told me that Rusty (who I have never met or spoken with) is just a tire distributor for them, and so I think it is safe to assume that the most accurate information is this information that I was told directly from Kelsey Tires. Hopefully one day they will make repops of our tires, but that is far from certain and it isn't going to happen for at least 5 years.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by 1992 Trans Am
I spoke to Cindy at Kelsey Tire this morning. I also spoke with a manager as well. The phone number to Kelsey is 573-346-2506. I was told directly by both of them that there are currently no active plans to make any 245/50/ZR16 Goodyear Eagle ZR50 Gatorback tires. Cindy told me that they are aware that there is some demand for these tires and they are looking into reproducing them at the moment, but there is nothing set in stone, and she also told me that if they do decide to reproduce them, they will not be available for at least 5 years. She told me that Rusty (who I have never met or spoken with) is just a tire distributor for them, and so I think it is safe to assume that the most accurate information is this information that I was told directly from Kelsey Tires. Hopefully one day they will make repops of our tires, but that is far from certain and it isn't going to happen for at least 5 years.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Just spoke to Mile at Kelsey. The issue is getting the tooling at a factory to produce them. The 225/60/15s for the Mustang are being hand made - that's why they are so expensive. Kelsey would like to make the 255 and 245s more conventionally in order to bring them in at a better price point.
He also mentioned that the ONLY reason they even are considering 245s is because WE keep calling them.
So....keep calling!
Anyway, under no circumstance will these be available before 2 years, more like several years.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
You guys realize you've already been nagging them for 5 years. In that five years less than 200 users on a forum with nearly 200,000 members have voted in an anonymous poll that they'd even be interested. And that's before you're even asking anyone to put any money on the table.
There comes a time when perhaps you need to be realistic about your expectations. These folks work in customer service, they aren't going to tell you to go away. But they'll give you a fuzzy timeline to get you out of their hair.
Maybe instead of focusing on tires that were crap when they were new, you could put some of that energy into petitioning SLP to bring back their catalog of thirdgen parts. Or get BBK to finally sell the turtleram. Spread that enthusiasm around a bit.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Agreed. I would love to see SLP bring back their third gen catalog. If they do ever end up repopping our gatorbacks the reality is that it is not going to happen, if at all, for several years. So for folks who are trying to keep their car original and want to have Gatorbacks on them for their look and authenticity, you just have to buy a set of original production gatorbacks when they pop up for sale. And if they do end up making repop gatorbacks, they are going to be at least $350 per tire based on their current pricing for other tires that are of a similar elk.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
I disagree about them being crap. And anyone who is going to spend the $1500+ to get a set of 4 of these if they are repopped are not buying them because they are the ultimate performance tire. We would be buying them for the look and the authenticity that they definitely bring to a 87-92 F body that was originally equipped with these tires. If they do repop them at some point, I will be ordering a set (if not 2) right away, as I love the way the look and appreciate the authentic factor.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by Drew
You guys realize you've already been nagging them for 5 years. In that five years less than 200 users on a forum with nearly 200,000 members have voted in an anonymous poll that they'd even be interested. And that's before you're even asking anyone to put any money on the table.
There comes a time when perhaps you need to be realistic about your expectations. These folks work in customer service, they aren't going to tell you to go away. But they'll give you a fuzzy timeline to get you out of their hair.
Maybe instead of focusing on tires that were crap when they were new, you could put some of that energy into petitioning SLP to bring back their catalog of thirdgen parts. Or get BBK to finally sell the turtleram. Spread that enthusiasm around a bit.
As far as SLP goes, they have stated to me that absolutely, positively will never, ever do another 3rd gen part again.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
That is a shame. SLP, Accel/Holley, Goodyear and GM itself, just to mention a few...all of these performance and restoration companies that used to make these awesome parts for our cars have basically discontinued production of many desirable parts that I feel people who own third gens now would be more likely to buy today than people were 10 years ago when you could still get a lot of the good stuff that was still being manufactured...Thank goodness for places like Hawks and Classic Industries and Lon at TDS for trying to make and sell good stuff to keep our cars going!
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
No real input here, Just gonna vent...
We can go to the moon, build a space station 240 miles up in the air, send satellites into space so our cell phones ,TV's, GPS, and such work. We can even produce cars that drive AND park themselves. All this technology and advancement......yet we can't/won't reverse engineer a tire. Kinda sad.
I was in, but I'll spend my 3 grand on a bunch of Nittos or something....hell in 5 years I might have a new hobby.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by chazman
As far as SLP goes, they have stated to me that absolutely, positively will never, ever do another 3rd gen part again.
I know. Kelsey would say the same thing, but they obviously want to placate those who are calling, rather than make people angry. It's a win-win for them to say "Oh yeah, just another 5 or 10 years, thanks for calling!"
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by Bob88GTA
No real input here, Just gonna vent...
We can go to the moon, build a space station 240 miles up in the air, send satellites into space so our cell phones ,TV's, GPS, and such work. We can even produce cars that drive AND park themselves. All this technology and advancement......yet we can't/won't reverse engineer a tire. Kinda sad.
I was in, but I'll spend my 3 grand on a bunch of Nittos or something....hell in 5 years I might have a new hobby.
Vent over. Carry on
We definitely can reverse engineer a tire. But can we do it for a profit? That's the key.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by Drew
I know. Kelsey would say the same thing, but they obviously want to placate those who are calling, rather than make people angry. It's a win-win for them to say "Oh yeah, just another 5 or 10 years, thanks for calling!"
The difference is that Kelsey actually did repro the 225/60/15 Gatorback for the Mustang.
It sounds like they don't want to make the the 255/50/16 and 245/50/16 the same way, however.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by Drew
There. I fixed it for you.
Sorry man, I was rooting for you to come out victorious, but they sure seem to be blowing copious volumes of smoke up your butt.
I do admit that the latest news is a punch to the gut.
I don't think it's pure smoke up my butt, though. Kelsey has had a set of original 245/50/16 Gatorbacks to use as a model for years now. Rusty suggested that they may be interested in borrowing one of mine, (as a sample), maybe 5 years ago.
I think the issue with the 255 and 245 is that Kelsey wants it mass produced with actual tooling, so they can be made more inexpensively and sold at a lower price point than the 225/60/15, which is hand made.
Anyway, I'm not happy about the news nor the delays, but nothing ever gets accomplished by giving up. And I'm not giving up.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
I think they will eventually repop our gatorbacks but it's going to take more than 10 years. I think third gens are just finally starting to get the respect they deserve, but more people need to own them who have money to spend on them like folks who own first gen f bodies before it will be profitable enough for a company to remanufacture these sorts of parts.
Originally Posted by chazman
I do admit that the latest news is a punch to the gut.
I don't think it's pure smoke up my butt, though. Kelsey has had a set of original 245/50/16 Gatorbacks to use as a model for years now. Rusty suggested that they may be interested in borrowing one of mine, (as a sample), maybe 5 years ago.
I think the issue with the 255 and 245 is that Kelsey wants it mass produced with actual tooling, so they can be made more inexpensively and sold at a lower price point than the 225/60/15, which is hand made.
Anyway, I'm not happy about the news nor the delays, but nothing ever gets accomplished by giving up. And I'm not giving up.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
The 5000 lb elephant in the middle of the room is the one that a good portion of gen 3 guys hold most dear.
in 1984/85 I worked directly with Goodyear in Akron to convince them that they could reproduce the Polyglass GT and actualy sell it.
They (GoodYear) (not Kelsey or Coker) agreed to do a test run in a then operational bias ply plant down in South America - specifically Argentina. The key discussion point was the (then) restoration value of the cars vs the cost to produce and ship the tire back to the US.
This is a far bigger story and I ended up with one of the very first sets off the boat at $200 a tire to fit a car (my 70 z28)- that was trading on average $8-10K all day long-but i digress.... .
In other words are our third Gen cars currently valuable enough to justify the now Kelsey or Coker investment - and if you are one of those tire guys the question is "will we sell enough of these $350 a piece tires for cars that are trading right now around or under $15K"?
I believe the basic question from 1985 was framed with a vastly different regulatory climate and a booming Reagan era economy. At that time the hobby was setting and cheer-leading exponential value increases of the Muscle cars within single 6 month periods where guys were buying cars and doubling the value upon sale.
Today the vendors have current tire safety regulations to contend with and as a group the third Gen hobby is currently split with a significant portion of the owners wanting to keep these cars very affordable. This is quite noble, and reflects the salt of the earth group we have here and the economic reality of the times we are living in...you guys are also kind and caring to everybody who enters the hobby.
Back to the 5000 lb elephant in the middle of the room it is is without question average resale value.
I will tell you this-when Z28's IROC's and T/A's and GTA's starting bringing $40-50K or more on average at the auctions then this conversation fundamentally changes for the restoration tire vendors, till then this is where we find ourselves.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
I have an original set of Gatorbacks that I got with my IROC I recently purchased. They have approximately 12,000 km on them (7500 miles) and are in good shape. I guess I better set them aside and get another set of tires to drive on...
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by Croz
I have an original set of Gatorbacks that I got with my IROC I recently purchased. They have approximately 12,000 km on them (7500 miles) and are in good shape. I guess I better set them aside and get another set of tires to drive on...
Yes, they're not safe to drive on. All they're good for at this point is show.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by chazman
As far as SLP goes, they have stated to me that absolutely, positively will never, ever do another 3rd gen part again.
What is SLP's issue? Its so asinine. They've killed off almost all their 4th gen parts also. Why kill them? The cars are still popular, and it isn't like the R&D and tooling isn't long paid for.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Post #567 and it would most likely cost double to build and then buy those parts these days.
I would like to see a restoration side to SLPs operation myself.
Originally Posted by Jason E
What is SLP's issue? Its so asinine. They've killed off almost all their 4th gen parts also. Why kill them? The cars are still popular, and it isn't like the R&D and tooling isn't long paid for.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
There is a lot more money to be made on new car production than aftermarket. When you can sell a guaranteed 16 units a week it makes life a whole lot easier. They could set up and make a small batch ere or there, but it ends up being a pain, because then you have to store the parts, Then if they do not sell at the end of the year they pay taxes on those unsold parts.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Rusty is just a re-seller, a dealer that doesn't have a building or a storefront but delivers to guys like us at shows. He has no more pull than we do - in fact we may have more.
I like Rusty, but I think he's misleading in his role with the manufacturer.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by Bob88GTA
No real input here, Just gonna vent...
We can go to the moon, build a space station 240 miles up in the air, send satellites into space so our cell phones ,TV's, GPS, and such work. We can even produce cars that drive AND park themselves. All this technology and advancement......yet we can't/won't reverse engineer a tire. Kinda sad.
I was in, but I'll spend my 3 grand on a bunch of Nittos or something....hell in 5 years I might have a new hobby.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by PurelyPMD
Rusty is just a re-seller, a dealer that doesn't have a building or a storefront but delivers to guys like us at shows. He has no more pull than we do - in fact we may have more.
I like Rusty, but I think he's misleading in his role with the manufacturer.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by F-body-fan
It's still the 16" mold size thats primarily preventing it, correct?
It's been so long I am forgetting
That is correct. The 15" Mustang Gators can be hand made.
I spoke to Rusty at MCACN last fall and I said WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If Kelsey made them, they'd sell 1000 tires in the first week. He said it's all about who's going to pay for the mold. I said that I know about 50 guys who'd be willing to chip in.
He also said that realistically they are 2 to 3 years out.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
I'm shocked. Utterly dismayed that I won't be able to pay far, far, out the *** for the worst "performance" tire I've ever owned.
Maybe part of the reason they don't want to do it is that they don't want to subject themselves to the liability. If Gatorbacks had been a bit better, there probably wouldn't have been so many smashed thirdgens in the junkyards back in the early 90s.
My Formula was pretty much impossible to drive on damp or cold pavement with Goodyear RS-As. Had a pair of GSCs on the back for awhile, equally terrible. However, they made for awesome burnouts. Best thing I ever did was put BFGs on it. Hell even my TBI convertible will spin the Goodyear Eagles.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Don't be a party pooper, Drew!
IMHO, nothing completes the look of our cars like a set of Gatorbacks. When mine were new, I think they performed pretty well. Not so much 10 years later. Even worse when they got to be 20. The new ones would be made with modern compounds though, just like the Mustang's 225/60/15s. BTW, Kelsey has sold enough of those where they've had to do a few runs. Personally, I think the 245/50/16s will sell way better.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
I think it was because there just wasn't a tire on that market that looked that aggressive, or in that profile at the time. When I first saw them on a new Iroc at the dealer, my jaw pretty much hit the floor.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
My car had 2x factory Gatorbacks and the previous (original) owner told me 2 others were changed under warranty after a couple of years.
He had bought the car for his wife. Someone at the dealer had swapped the 15s for the those with Gatorbacks. After a month and half of driving she span out in a heavy rainstorm getting on the highway. She told him she never wanted to drive the car again, rain or shine haha!
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Funny, the girl that had my Formula put it in the median twice in one trip and decided to trade it in. I was fine until the first chilly night with a hint of moisture in the air. I was the only car on the road at midnight +10 or 15 minutes. Pulled in the left turn lane and tickled the brakes a second to scrub a little speed before making the turn. Wheels locked up, and the car slid almost through the intersection. Considering it was my everyday commute home, and I'd been driving that road, at that time, for a few years at that point, I really wasn't pushing it... Goodyear tires are just THAT $hitty. Put BFGs on it a few days later, never had traction issues again.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
Originally Posted by Drew
Funny, the girl that had my Formula put it in the median twice in one trip and decided to trade it in. I was fine until the first chilly night with a hint of moisture in the air. I was the only car on the road at midnight +10 or 15 minutes. Pulled in the left turn lane and tickled the brakes a second to scrub a little speed before making the turn. Wheels locked up, and the car slid almost through the intersection. Considering it was my everyday commute home, and I'd been driving that road, at that time, for a few years at that point, I really wasn't pushing it... Goodyear tires are just THAT $hitty. Put BFGs on it a few days later, never had traction issues again.
Lolol! I know they were performance cars but why put such a shitty rain tire on them sighhh.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
I want to say that at the time, the Goodyear Eagle VR50 was the only game in town for a tire of that size. In 1984 (15th Anniversary T/A was first to get 16" wheels) a 245/50VR16 was fancy. On dry pavement, by 1984 standards, they were pretty decent. Especially considering there weren't many alternatives.
Living in South Dakota with 6 months a year under threat of snow, it was pretty common to just not drive cars like that between October and March. Oddly, the only tires I had trouble with, were Goodyear tires.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
In the dry, Gatorbacks were great performers in their day, top tier tires. In the rain, not that great. But many/all performance tires of the day were bad in the rain. It was almost expected. Ironic, since the Gatorbacks were developed from Goodyear's Formula One race rain tire.
So what do you do? Maybe drive a little slower and brake a little earlier when you're in the rain with your hot performance car. I mean, come on, put on your big boy whitie tities and suck it up.
Drive through one winter in Chicago and you'll be an inclement weather veteran driver.
Re: If they still offered 245/50/16 Gatorbacks, would you buy them?
There was a learning curve when the "new" performance tires came out.
Wide flat tire tread is terrible in krappy weather. Slap some snow tires on the rear, skinny tires on the front, weight in hatch and march right on through the nasty stuff like everyone else did.
People used to swap to winter tires all the time. Not sure why that went away, esp if you only have 1 car. (global warming? LMFAO)
01-09-2017, 10:52 AM
