Radiator isn't that old in the car. It was replaced a few years ago when the original sprung a leak.

I flushed the system on Saturday with Pestone Super Flush and refilled with Prestone green. The radiator looks clean (from what you can see thru the fill neck) and there's no crud on the cap. The old water pump looks really clean as well. The only sign of potential trouble was a very small amount of "the orange crud" showing up in the recovery bottle.

I'll watch the temp gauge this week and see if there's any improvement. If there isn't, I'm going to suspect some blockage in the radiator somewhere.

 

Don,
Sorry if I snapped a bit.

My point was that I don't feel Stewart Components is trying to pass off bogus information or parts. As I mentioned earlier, Lon is running the exact same pump and T-stat and he recalls that the RS runs a tad cooler.

This is why I think I have a cooling "gremlin" somewhere and I just need to chase it down.

 

Bret, I run the same pump and stat on my SB but I used a bigger rad. Sometimes I think my car runs too cold. It barely reaches the first mark on the guage when cruising at night.
It must be a bug in your sysytem somewere. Your combo is good. I think it's the radiator dude. Depending on the rad, you may be able to get it inspected and fixed for cheap. At least cheaper then a new BeCool.

 

If comes down to replacing the radiator, I can pick up a new AC Delco replacement for around $120 from Kay Auto in Van Nuys.

 

Is the replacement radiator you currently have a GM one? That could be your problem right there.

Just like anything else, you've replaced one part of the coolant system with a new "high flow" part and now the next component down the line is showing its weakness. The radiator may not be up to the task of cooling the car down with the high flow pump since it was marginal even with the stock pump.

Since you've notice a slight increase in operating temps with the new pump, it sounds to me like the radiator is the source of the problem.

(hint..hint..get a 17psi GM cap from a '84-'91 Vette.)

 

Yes, the current radiator is GM. I don't mess around with non GM or AC Delco parts on the big items - i.e. alternators, starters ...and so on.

If the radiator is blocked up in any way, then it's pretty likely due to using Dex Cool. Currently, no visible signs it's plugged up. Inside looks clean.

I'll know more after driving back and forth to work all week and watching the temp gauge.

 

My car barely gets to the first notch as well, usually just under it. And it'll go just above it in the heat with the A/C on. ( Yes I finally got my A/C fixed with many thanks to Russ. )

 

Bret, flush your cooling system before you replace the rad. According to Don, G.M used to offer two radiators for our cars. They had a small one for the v6 cars and a larger one for the v8s. Now they have dropped both and offer one radiator that is "in between." If you have a v6, you get a bigger radiator, but a v8 gets a smaller radiator if you buy a new one from G.M.

 

Well, the saga continues. The car ran at 220° on the way to the BBQ in stop-and-go 405 traffic pretty much all the way there.

After the BBQ, some of us headed out to Fontana to watch Randy, Rusty and Jerry run. At a steady 70+ mph following Chris in his 'vert, my temp gauge hit 240°+. By the time we got to the track is was creeping toward the red zone.

When I shut it down it puked some fluid out of the reservoir bottle. I left my auxil. fan running for a couple hours to cool things down a bit. On the drive home on the 210 Fwy at 11:00pm, the gauge stayed at 220°.

I've tried rerouting the external trans cooler lines so the fluid passes thru the cooler first, then thru an external filter and then thru the radiator back to the trans. My thinking behind this was that maybe the trans was heating up the radiator. Be Cool also recommends this configuration. So far, no signs of significant improvement.

This morning the temp stayed around the 1/4 mark thru Toponaga Canyon as ususal (mostly downhill and basically coasting). Once I hit PCH and the usual traffic and stop lights, the temp crept up to 220°.

At start-up, it will idle in the driveway and stay at the 1/4 mark. Under light load, it will stay below 220°. Under steady load or climbing hills the temp heads for the 3/4 mark.

I am stumped on this one at the moment and don't want to start throwing money at it, but a new radiator may be the next step. I have located an all aluminum, specific fit, 3rd gen street/race radiator for $299. I'm going to do a little more homework first.

 

After the BBQ, some of us headed out to Fontana to watch Randy, Rusty and Jerry run. At a steady 70+ mph following Chris in his 'vert, my temp gauge hit 240°+. By the time we got to the track is was creeping toward the red zone. As I have said, mine will do that too until the aux fan comes on or I turn on the a/c and then it will stay down. I've tried rerouting the external trans cooler lines so the fluid passes thru the cooler first, then thru an external filter and then thru the radiator back to the trans. My thinking behind this was that maybe the trans was heating up the radiator. Be Cool also recommends this configuration. So far, no signs of significant improvement. Is your cooler in front of the raditor? This morning the temp stayed around the 1/4 mark thru Toponaga Canyon as ususal (mostly downhill and basically coasting). Once I hit PCH and the usual traffic and stop lights, the temp crept up to 220°. To me this is normal. Now I guess my next question s are: Do you have your computer set to turn on the fans sooner than 230? Have you check your a/c cooler for bend fins? A bird made thru the fog lights and hit mine. Not all of the fins are striaght.

 

240° while cruising on the freeway definitely isn't normal.

The primary fan still uses the factory setting in the ECM. The secondary fan is being run by a Hypertech 180° fan switch. Both fans are working correctly.

A/C condenser does have some tweakd fins, but nothing that hasn't been there for some time. One consideration is that maybe it's dirty and needs to be cleaned. Driving to Venice Beach everyday for work, the car gets filthy pretty quick.

I'm also considering getting rid of the A/C all together.

 

I remember something a long time ago about some one getting a plastic bag caught between the cond. and the rad.

Maybe new pump = more pressure = knocked some crud off and got wedged in rad or thermastat.

 

This is off wall Bret but are you sure the secondary fan is turning the right way? Not that I would know by first hand... Hooked the wires backwards once....

 

This is what I'm leaning toward. It's almost as if there's restricted flow thru the radiator. At low speed/load flow is enough to keep things cool. At higher speed/load there's not enough flow and it's heating up.

I'm hesitant to drop $300 on a new radiator. Especially after I just dropped $120 on a new turn signal switch it turns out I didn't need.

However, the new radiator would be better than the factory one and when the time comes to drop in a new engine, it would be nice to have the new radiator.

 

Glenn,
Both fans are working A.O.K. The secondary fan switch in the cylinder head uses a single wire lead, so no crossed-up wiring.

It's acting more like the radiator may be restricted a little bit.

 

Thats what I did. When things broke I upgraded for the impending "new Motor".

One thought about using an Al. radiator like BeCool is if you have a need for rad service on the road the average rad shop doesn't deal with that style. They can't pull the side tanks and repair a core.

 

Honestly, I don't think these factory radiators are worth repairing. They never seem to be the same after having the plastic side tanks removed and reinstalled.

When comparing the cost of fixing the factory radiator and buying new one, the money is better spent just buying a new one. My last radiator was only $120 for a genuine GM replacement.

 

The replacement radiators that most sell out there are a compromise between the TBI & TPI (read, smaller than the original in thickness). The copper-brass ones are usually thicker (three row).

 

That's why I'm looking at an all aluminum 2 row 1" radiator. I found these on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...RK%3AMEWA%3AIT

 

I wasn't thinking of staying stock. I got a custom radiator from a place in Canyon country for $400 that uses a newer design copper core material and can be fixed by any rad shop. It's a 4 core and it did fit with the air cond condensor but fit much better once the condensor was removed. Cruising home at night it barely hits the first mark on the stock gauge.

 

Those look good Bret.

Tell me how they do!

 

1" is the RS radiators for the TBI's. Our TPI radiators are 1 1/2" or 1 9/16". Most of the aftermarket ones are 1 3/8".

 

Don,
Aren't the factory radiators only single core?

All the performance radiators are typically dual 1" core - Be Cool, Griffin...etc.
http://www.becool.com/products_rads_dual.html

Griffin does offer a dual 1 1/4" 82-92 F-body radiator, but they recommend that for something with 400 to 600hp.

For under 400hp, hey recommend a dual 1".

The one I'm looking at on eBay is also a dual 1" core

 

Don,
Aren't the factory radiators only single core?

Yeah, but they are a thick 1 9/16" 1 row core, not a skinny 1" thin thing. (with two little cores)
Unless they are talking about two 1" cores ...but they don't say that. I couldn't find any specs on their site. (sizes))

This one on E-bay will not fit our cars without hacking ...ask Vincent. Notice the tank thickness, ours are 2 1/4"

Radiator Overall Dimensions:

30 3/4” Wide
19 3/8” Tall
3” Tank Thickness

 

Notice the Title on that radiator:
ALUMINUM RACE RADIATOR.....that means you don't care if you have to hack your car to get it to fit.

I have a stock IROC aluminum core that I am going to clean and put new tanks on, and that is what is going in my T/A. (that's also what's in my Camaro) It never sees anything higher that 200* in the heat, in traffic and with the air on.

 

I got a Modine from Arcadia Radiator for $130. Have to get my as stock as possible for stupid SCCA rules

Edit to add: Even with a new radiator, water pump and a Napa bottom hose, she still runs about 220. Had a bad fuse line that wouldn't let the fans come on and she hit 240 but cooled right down when it hit the fuse. Change it for the third time and so far so good. Darn thing would run around 200-220 as long as I kept my speed going. Oh well. Good luck Bret. I gave up trying to keep it cooler without a chip change. BTW the one fan doesn't keep in down so I usually keep the second fan on.

 

Did you get the copper-brass three row?

That's what Kevin runs and it works great.

 

No. I have to run "stock/oem" for SCCA stock classes. I just gave up. BTW my friend at GM justs says "So what. They're suppose to run hot." He had the car for 3 months on the proving grounds and said that my temps are okay. Someday I will finally find out what all those extra wires when to I know one set when to the trans and another when to the rear end but the other 2 I have no idea. I'am guessing maybe oil and water since I heard that they used a "special" set of gauages from another friend who see it back in MI.

 

The Be Cool (and others) are (2) 1" rows – the Be Cool is also 3" thick. here are the exact pecs:
http://www.becool.com/cgi-bin/WebObj...tbM/2.14.1.0.1

There are others here on TGO that are using these radiators and had them fit with little modification. Check the Cooling board.

 

Glenn,
Running errands or going back and forth to work, my car runs a steady 200-220. I can deal with that. What I can't deal with is the car running 240+ at 7:00pm, at 70mph on the freeway. Once we got off the freeway, the temp did not drop and kept creeping up.

By the time I shut it down it was heading for 260. Once I did shut it off, it boiled over. Something is definitely outta whack, since the car never did this before.

 

There are others here on TGO that are using these radiators and had them fit with little modification. Check the Cooling board.

I'm just trying to save you a lot of grief. The mounting area of our cars is a maximum of 2 1/2" to put a 3" radiator in there you will have to hack it up. Trust me on this one, because I know you wouldn't want to do that to your car. As they say "your idea of fit" might be different than theirs.

 

Agreed. And when you said that you left the fan on for a couple hours to cool down the car, thats not right either. That's why I asked if the trans cooler is in front or behind the radiator. Good luck Bret and keep us posted.

 

That's why I'm doing a bunch of homework and asking questions before I drop any $$$. I know with the universal fit race radiators, people are having to hack and modify a bit to get them in.

The "specific fit" radiators should be better, but as you said, their idea of "fit" could be different.

 

I've done some checking over on the Cooling board and the guys who bought the "specific fit" Be Cool Camaro radiator say that it pretty much dropped right in. That's good to hear.

The guys buying the universal Griffin radiator are having to modify the mounts.

 

I took another look at the picture...the radiator looks like it is 3" but they reduced the height and put tabs that are 2 1/4" to fit in the mounts. So from that it looks to be a drop in even tho the tanks are 3" wide.

 

Damn...I just saw the price of that thing in the Pace catalog $610 "OWCH"

 

Yep. $589 at Summit. That's why I'm looking at the one on ebay for $299. I've e-mailed the seller to ask how good the fit really is. I don't see mounting tabs in their picture like the Be Cool has.

 

Radiator update:
The eBay seller replied and said that the rubber mounts have to be changed to accept the 3" tank. I'm guessing the bottom mounts may only require a minor tweak, but the top plastic mount sounds like it won't work.

I've also chatted with someone on the Cooling board who is using the Be Cool custom fit and he said it's a little tight, but it does fit the stock mounts. He also said it comes with hardware to adjust the angle so it doesn't interfere with the A/C condenser. If you don't have A/C, then the extra hardware isn't needed. He finished by saying it's expensive, but he's happy with it.

My A/C delete pulley should arrive any day now.

 

Alright, it's decision time. I've read some more threads about the Be Cool radiator and some have had some fitment issues involving the PS lines and fans, while others said it dropped right in. I guess depending on the car, "direct fit" isn't always correct.
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...l+radiator+fit

Since I'd rather spend $299 instead of $589, I'm thinking about going with the eBay radiator and just deal with the potential rubber mount issue. I can return it if it's too much hassle to make it fit.

 

Bret I had the same issue with the rubber mounts. I went to dealer and asked for ones that will fit. We checked a bunch of different ones and came up with just about any truck that had a HD radiator. Basically you want the rubber to cup the inner most part of the tanks. Look for one with a tang/tit like thing on the back side for mounting. If it doesn't fit the exact spot then all you do is drill a hole. Not much hacking.

 

I took measurements off the car last night and it should fit. The only thing that might present a problem is the A/C condenser.

Of course, if I pull the A/C, then there's no problem. Either that or I might be able to modify the rubber mounts for the A/C condenser to move the top forward a tad.

 

Stop f'in around with overpriced junk if you want to spend 600 bucks on a radiator. I've never heard anything good about Be Cool either, they were big on the 5-6-7 front and those people have money to burn by the ton.

www.crracing.com

That or get a Griffin. Still cheaper.

I still think you'd be fine with a stock size radiator. You dont exactly have a high HP engine under the hood of your car. Something is seriously wrong if the stock type setup wont cool the car. There isnt anything you have done that requires any sort of super cooling system.

And FYI not all TPI cars came with a 1 1/2" wide radiator. Both my 85 and my 86 had around a 1" wide radiator stock from the factory. They might have changed this in later years, I do know my 89's radiator is alot wider.

Bret, I have a couple radiators you can experiment with if you want, but I'm not 100% sure they will work because of the serp setup. They were for my 86 with the different airbox routing. I have the original one off the 86 (that has new end tanks), and a custom 4 row brass/copper that fits in the stock mounts but you'll probably need to space the fans back 1/4" for clearance. Its pretty easy to do though, different bolts and some nuts as spacers.

 

Bret
Did you have cooling problems before installing the new water pump.
If not I suggest backing up and starting from scratch before spending $$$$$$$$$$ on other parts that might not be the problem.
We've been there, thats why we have so many radiators around here. The problem was probably a bad factory block.

 

For now I still have the stock engine. But with 170K on the clock, the time is coming to swap it out. I'm just trying to plan ahead and avoid spending money twice if I can.

I could easily run over to Van Nuys on Saturday and come home with a new GM radiator for around $120 and probably be good to go. I don't want to do that however.

I have plans for my car, but I have some other things I want to do first before I really tear into it.

 

Tom,
Yes and no. The car was running similar to how it is now, but would climb to only 220° on my hill climb home. Also, there was an occasion last summer, while running simple stop-and-go errands, the car climbed to 240°+. When I got home and shut it off, you could hear the water bubbling in the system.

During the winter months, it runs cool pretty much all the time.

Last, after installing the new pump and bleeding the air from the system, it appeared that coolant was not coming thru all the rows properly. The top row has good flow, the second row has little flow, the third row seems to have restricted flow - water coming out of only one side of the tube.

In the morning, with cool air and light load, this thing is running at the 1/4 mark. Under load it will heat up to 220°. If that's all it did, I'd be fine.

The clincher was watching the car start to over heat will driving out to Fontana. It never did anything like that on the freeway before. Without having X-ray vision, I can't say for sure if the radiator is clogged and starving the pump.

Everything I've inspected looks really clean. The old water pump, the inside of the radiator ...etc. If my new raditor hoses ever get here, I'd really like to try those first and see if they clear things up.

Anyway, at this point most of this thread has been me thinking out loud and using you guys as a sounding board.

 

Bret,

If the car is running a little cooler at idle/low speeds and then starts to run even hotter at freeway speeds, that's got to be clogged radiator.

If the radiator has some kind of blockage in it, it's going to become even more noticeable when the water pump is circulating more flow through the system.

Oh yeah, do you have those oil-cooler pipes that snake around the oil pan? Maybe one of the pipes is bent or something. I don't know if that could actually make it run hot, but I'm just trying to think of another thing it could be.lol!

 

If the radiator is clogged, it will have cold spots. Might want to get it warmed up, and then just reach your hand down there and feel it in some different areas.

 

Have you done a cooling system flush, yet? If the Dexcool is creating the problem, a flush might cure it, if it doesn't your only out a little time and a couple of bucks. With a flush out of the way, you can then look at more expensive options.

 

Russ,
I flushed the cooling system a few weeks back. I ditched the Dex Cool and went back to regular green coolant.

 

This is exactly my line of thinking regarding this problem.