That "Fire" background would have been much more appropriate if it was behind a new Firebird

Damn you GM!!! Where's the Firebird???

 

I think they could easily do a firebird if they choose to and it would even things up for Chevy and Pontiac. Chevy having the Corvette & Camaro, Pontiac the GTO & Firebird.

First just let Chevy get the Camaro built and I'm sure the aftermarket will be all over it with parts, then we'll see how it goes from there.

 

Let's hope the final product looks a little more like the orange illustration, but
also thankful that they are bringing it back at all!

 

I just want the 40 mpg engine management system, MY car looks way better.
Think I can steal just the pcm and wiring harness, I can't afford the whole engine...

 

Here's a pic chooped by the same guy who created the orange concept. It's posted over on camaroz28.com. He made a much better looking grill as well as deleting the "scoop" and adding hideaway headlights.

 

See now were talking Changed that grille and put that Billet looking line in there it looks real good.. Same with the decals.. Told you a lil change this is a Sweet Camaro! Now let's just wait the price tag..

 

That looks a lot better with the different grill and the scoop gone

 

On the editorial page at the front of the new Super Chevy is a pic of Dynacorn's new 67-68 Camaro Coupe body. I picked up the new issue of Camaro Performers today and it has a pic of the new 67-68 body as well.

 

Looks better in person, but the main points that are making people look at it a bit funny are still there in person. The grill needs some help, but its fixable.

Whats on the platform, general design wise, is not far from what they'd build aside of the obvious like wheels, roof height, mirrors, etc. I'd say their design is mostly complete and if they pull the trigger its off to the production people to make it happen. Might be a little different like the Mustangs posted above but it wont be that far off.

 

NO!! How do THEY roll?? Maybe you want to explain to me personally!!

 

The sooner people remember that GM said one would return and one won't, we can move past the "Where's the Firebird?" questions.

Camaro has "more" history than the Firebird. It was a Camaro that was the top TransAm car. It was a Camaro that caused NASCAR to ban them from competition in the 80's. It wasn't uncommon to have a field of Camaros running. In fact the last big open comp race that we went to in 82 had 122 cars show up. 116 were Camaros, 4 Firebirds and 2 Mustangs. A normal night would have about 32 cars and 31 were Camaros.

Yes both cars would be neat but the bottom line is it won't happen. GM has to make changes. Pontiac has the GTO and Solstice and Chevy will have the Vette and the Camaro.

 

You personally? Dude, I feel sorry for you think that statement needs further explanation. I don't tutor people with the reasoning skills of a child with special needs.

 

Some pictures I took, notice how some of the lines mimic the thirdgen.

 

I was checking out the new Motor Trend and there's an article in there about a possible Chevy version of the Solstice - the Sting Ray.

It would be another two seat roadster built on the Solstice platform running a V6 engine.

GM to resurrect Chevrolet Sting Ray with 2008 model?

GM is reportedly prepping a third Kappa-platform sports car under the Chevrolet Sting Ray name, according to the February 2006 issue of Motor Trend. Its target? The BMW Z4 and Porsche Cayman. “Like the Corvette, the Sting Ray would transcend GMs old divisional order,” the article explains. If it gets the green light, the Sting Ray will be a well-equipped, high-spec model, priced “far above” the Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky. which are also built on the Kappa architecture. The car is expected to come with a choice of engines, including a new V6, and possibly the same I4 engine featured in the new Pontiac Solstice GXP, announced this past Sunday.

 

What I have heard is that the "Sting Ray" is to be a level above the Z06 in a limited production. Kind of like the Guldstrand limited Vette. WOW!!!

 

here is a convertible pic.

 

I went to the show yesterday and experienced it for myself. I think it’s too little to late…it’s a knee jerk reaction to Ford and Chrysler and it shows. This is an opportunity for the bowtie brigade to get back in the arena and battle for dominance at the street lights across America, and their blowing it! Today we’ve got a complete arsenal of high horsepower imports with the “American Sports Car” in their crosshairs and in my opinion, capturing an alarming amount of market share that rightfully belongs to the big three. But hey, I guess history is truly repeating itself…the original Camaro was a knee jerk reaction to the Mustang, so I guess it only appropriate that the “second coming” is as well…

 

not to question it, BUT how did you get into the Detroit Auto Show? Are you with the Media, GM or some other company, because the Detroit Auto show does not open to the public until Saturday...



How was your flight from CA?

I can't belive how many uf us are bitching about this car, and the media magazines think its great. CAll me strange but I really like it. A little retroish, but, at least it was not a total reincarnation of an old car like the Challenger is...

John

 

...and I can't wait for GM to resurect the 7.5" 10-bolt and a 4-speed automatic that blow up more often then they rightfully should.

It should at least have a decent rear that isn't weak-nut and a contemporary 5-speed auto with a 6-speed available.

 

Funny, I didnt see you there... should have been pretty easy to spot ya though

Detroit? Who was in Detroit?

 

Challenger to be powered by a 6.1 liter 425 hp HEMI backed by a 6 speed ! I LIKE IT!

 

It's actually pretty simple, the L.A. Auto Show opened last Friday and GM debuted the Camaro concept both here and in Detroit on Monday. No planes involved. Just a short drive to downtown Los Angeles.

 

Werent those pics from the LA auto show
I really like the new camaro.Especially if it looks like the one with the hidaway lights

 

Yeah, it took John DeLorean to get it right with the Firebird.

 

I did not know that...

thanks for enlightning me.

JOhn

 

The Mustang was Ford's answer to the Chevelle. In 1966 the Chevelle went down a different road as the Camaro/Firebird was coming out. The "new" Camaro has been done for awhile. There's still problems with Canadan auto workers so that's why it's late. She would have been out in 05 but was pushed back to 07 and now to 09. Late? Yes. Too late? Only time will tell. And as far as it looking like a Mustang, well only so many lines there. It does have some of the Camaro lines and I agree that some of these "after" photos look better. I hope these are sent to Scott at GM.

 

Don't know how we missed Mikey, If you don't see him you usually hear him.

 

I love it. Pony wars all over again. It is only us that can benefit. That new Mopar is 425 HP and a 6 speed under 28K??? AWESOME!

I have a few thoughts about all this. I'm disappointed in the lack of a Firebird. I suppose they could be saving this but then again, the future of Pontiac in general may be a big question mark.

I like the new Camaro. I like the new Challenger better. I've been saying that if GM messes up my Firebird I'll turn to Mopar but that won't happen for a while it seems.

Anyone seen any performance specs on this "concept"?

 

It is still a concept, so performance specs don't mean much. I would expect a Ls2, I doubt the Ls7 will be available anywhere except the Vette. The concept car has irs-production version will probably be a solid axle. It would be nice if they would build it with a 12 bolt, but it will probably get the 10 bolt, or whatever the 4th gen ls1's had. It won't have those big wheels in production, probably something near what the new standard Vette runs, but of a different design so as not to infringe on the Vettes exclusiveness.

 

7 5/8" 10 bolt

 

Here is what I think of the next Camaro could be:
Z28: LS1 350HP, 17" wheels, Projector HID head lights, solid axle. $25K
SS: LS6 400HP with fuel managment, and same as above. $30K
V6: it could be 3.8 engine, fog light delete, regular head lights. $20K

 

LAck of Firebird...

Maybe maybe not, its hard to say what the General will do...

This Camaro is a sibling to the GTO, and apparently using the Sigma (? Correct me if thats wrong) platform. So really Pontiac has a sister car, and there has been talk about the GTO going on hiatus, But really they have very little invested in the GTO, basically its a rebadeged, Holden Monaro, with minor cosmetic changes, other than a LH drive. If they do a Camaro like this, then I think there will be a Pontiac counterpart, might not be a "Firebird" and I Highly doubt there will ever be another Trans Am nameplate, as that was a rented name by GM.

It could very well be a Camaro, and the Z28 and SS, and then Pontiac could get a new nameplate Firebird ( or whatever it may be named ) and then have a GT and possibly a GTO or GTA as a top model, it is concievable.

John

 

1 more thing, the LS1 and LS6 are no longer being produced, chances are it would be a LS2 and an LS7 (which I doubt they woud use from the Corvette) it may be a 427, but definately cut down in power.

John

 

the car and driver report on the new challenger was rumoring that vehicle costs were estimated at 35,000. Course, that's a rough figure, and production costs really haven't been established yet.

The GTO changes were actually pretty large in comparison to what most think. While it looks like a worked over holden, and it basically is, GM had major complaints about making the tranisition, saying it went much furtehr than switching from RH to LH drive, and changing fascias, basic jist was briniging the car to american crash standards to a lot of work and re-work.

See no reason why this new camaro wouldn't have a 400 hp v8, unless the vette doesn't get a nice bump on the LS2 to about 425 hp, if not, i'd expect the camaro to be downgrade to around 385 horse or so, basically what was done with the LS1 in the 4th gens and the corvette....end result according to the magazines, underated f-bodies and over-rated corvettes, least that's what the dyno proved.

Will there be a firebird in the future? Bob Lutz once said that there wasn't going to be one. He basically mentioned that a camaro and a firebird were two cars attached to young buyers, and he wants pontiac to be a more high performance adult driven car, basically the american BMW, unfortunately, America still can't find a way to build a BMW given that we tend to cheap out on whatever we can, so, i say, build it GM...lol, like anyone was listening to me anyway.

 

I was there from roughly 11:00-3:00 on Tuesday. I was kind of incognito seeing as I was only wearing a sequence halter-top, suede miniskirt (just short enough to get a peek at my “manicured” camel toe), and red 5” heels…

 

Too bad, someone else took ya home first eh?


Specs (borrowed from elsewhere, these are in the 'brochure' for the car)
Vehicle Type: Two-door, four-passenger rear-wheel drive sport coupe
Wheelbase (in / mm): 110.5 / 2806
Length (in / mm): 186.2 / 4730
Width (in / mm): 79.6 / 2022
Height (in / mm): 53 / 1344
Track (in / mm): 63.8 / 1620 front - 63.3 / 1607 rear
Engine: 6.0L V-8 LS-2. 400 HP / 298 KW. with Active Fuel Management (tm)
Transmission: Six-speed manual T56
Suspension: Four-wheel independent: MacPherson strut front, multilink rear. Progressive rate coil springs, gas-pressurized dampers
Brakes: Four-wheel disc. 14" rotors with four-piston calipers
Wheels: Cast Aluminum. 21" front, 22" rear.
Tires: 275/30R21 front. 305/30R22 rear.

Dont know yet if 5th gen seats fit a 3rd gen though.

 

One problem I forsee is the same epidemic that is troubling the SSR, Although its a really cool vehicle, and There has been a positive responce from the general public in the design. There are no complaints about the truck AFAIK, to performance either...

Where the problem lies is the price tag. It is/was too darned expensive for the general public. 39K for a toy truck is too much IMHO.'

No offense guys but a $39,000 toy is not up most of our alley. I personally would go for the Solstace, or Sky with the Turbo that there releasing for 2007, for $10,000 less. No matter what it is, it has to be yellow . Then you can get the LS2 conversion by www.mallettcars.com, see thread here: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...php?t=22403...

If the Camaro is in the $30K price range, forget it, it will have the same sales problem as the GTO & the SSR... THe GTO IMHO, should be priced around $26K to $27K to start. I think its at around $32K. I also think if they offered a cheepened version of the GTO (without the GTO name ) with a inline 6, around $24K I think that would help sales too....

John

 

Wassup, i told you that you weren't to wear that outfit outside the bedroom

 

Please…if you were lucky enough to get a taste you’d walk through the door a playful participant and leave a straight up victim. Don’t play with girth that you handle son…

 

A new Camaro would probably be in the $30k to $35k range. The Mustang is in the $20k (V6) to $30k (GT) range depending on the options. The new Shelby version will be a different story though.

 

I would hope that would be the upper end...

The Collectors Edition T/A Vert was 39,999 IIRC, and I think an SS Camaro Vert was in the mid 30's as well in 2002, I think by 2008 or 2009 were looking at about $35K - $40K & up for a loaded Camaro Personally thats WAAY too much.

Thats about half what my first house cost in 1999...

John

 

Chris did say "did you see that" then it diappeared, must have been you slipping out the back door.


We didnt get there till after noon, so you probably went the same direction just earlier.

 

You know, now that I think about it some of those cars did have a strange "aroma" to them

 

Well they still need to finish that new quick change car plant before it gets built. But sure hope we see a Firebird version soon. I bet it rings a bit more true in design.

 

That tells me you live no where near Southern California...

 

to improvise on this a little..

GM no longer uses LS1 or LS6 in newer production cars.
.. its LS2, LS4 or LS7 now..

so Z28= 405hp LS2
SS = 420hp LS2
camaro= 3.8 V6
Any special edition camaro should come with, or could be a special order package, a 480-490hp LS7

 

I was in the concourse hall for at least an hour. I was hanging out with one of my old friends that recently took on an extremely ‘high risk’ sales position at Fisker. I too am surprised that we didn’t see each other.

 

wasn't thinking that the mustang was all that expensive...base models from my recolection is about 19-20k , and GT base models are around 24,000, now if you start packing on options, i could see it hit 30k in a heartbeat. The T/A's from 02' that were running between 32-39k , were definatley always highly optioned, and back then, i think you could still get in a base T/A for around 28. ... for the camaro to sell, it'll need typical selling options, v6 and v8 vehicles, priced between 20-30k top of the line models at the mid to upper 30k, when a vette is only costing a person 40k, i see a problem if a high end camaro is going to be cheaper and faster than a low end corvette....i really wouldn't expect that peoples, really really wouldn't.

 

New GT Stangs are 26-31k, depending on how you option the car. Chevy needs to shoot for that. Too much more and buyers are going to continue to head to the Ford dealer, regardless of the few ultra brand loyalists floating around.

 

that concept with the different grill is way better. all they need to do is work on the grill and its good. The grill is what makes it feel like a caddi. Other then that change the mirrors and maybe the tail lights but the body it self is good. Very muscular. THe challenger concept was probably done by chip foose. I like it, its just that it aint different from the original. There was a green concept drawing of a barracuda a while back and that would have been a way better car, a retro car not a copy. Im just afraid of what all these companys are going to do with these cars after there done with this retro thing. Out of the three (mustang, camaro,challenger) the challenger is going to have the hardest transition. And with the challenger on the market what happen to that horrible four door charger?? I remember seeing alot of cool looking charger concepts and dogde killed it. We all have to remember that the concepts are to guage interest and that at the end its only a concept. But dont think that one of those gm guys arent looking for message boards like this and arent paying attention