Hey guys, I got a question. i got an 89 rs, and as you can see on my sig it has alot more power now than it did from the factory. Suspension is stock, besides me cutting the coils. I only have an idea of where to start, and what parts to buy first. I want to be able to throw down at the drag strip every once and a while, but mainly the car will be for fun. So the main thing i want is to be able so stick to the ground in turns, and feel comfortable at high speeds. I wrote BMR and Spohn tech departments, but neither of them got back to me.

How should I priotitize? I know the first purchase will be sub frame connectors, but after that, I need help.

Thanks in advance for all your help, and knowledge.

Logan

 

SFCs
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LACs
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LCARBs
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Some say Panhard Bar, but unless your rear axle is off center, there really is a big need, not even for autocross handling. Box your stock bar, and call it done.
Good shocks, but don't get suckered into $$$
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For handling, I'd suggest upgrading to WS6 springs, at least. Cut is fine for me too. My wifes 90RS did better with cut WS6 springs than her stock RS weakers.
WS6 sway bars, front & rear, for improved handling
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Wonder Bar and STB are good things too. No need to spend the extra $$$ on an aftermarket wonder bar either. The stock ones are great, and with some junk yard shopping, can be found for $5-$10.
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Those are good starting points.

 

So should I choose WS6 springs over eibach? I was planning on maybe the pro kit, but why spend extra money if the WS6 springs are just as good?

Also, I FORGOT TO MENTION, I HAVE THE OE IROC 18x8" REPLICAS, with NEXEN N 3000 tires(i edited my sig). How much of a difference would it make to have a wonder bar, and what car's should I be looking to pull one off of?

Thanks Stephen

 

"WS6" springs, whatever that means to whoever happens to be using the buzzword, are 15 years old or older. They're just old stockers; and they're worn out besides.

I'd buy new springs and forget about old used stock ones. I'v enever used the Eibachs so I can't comment on those. Look at Moog/TRW/FM 5662 or 5664 on the front, and CC635 or 5665 (I think that's the constant-rate one, somebody correct me if I'm wrong) on the rear. About the same results, probably ALOT less coin.

Wonderbars ONLY came on IROCs and 90-up Z28s. They're not easy to find in the junkyard, but not impossible either. Alternatively, they're widely available for CHEEEP in the aftermarket; a couple of the sponsors of this board have them, particularly Spohn and Top-Down. UMI might too, I don't know.

 

So SFC, STB, wonderbar, followed by springs and shocks. Is there a STB that I could use for a carb now, and then LT1 EFI intake later?

Then LCARB, and LCAs(maybe a panhard bar)

At this point should I do all poly bushings and boots? And where do sway bars fit into this equation?

Thanks guys.

 

You're anti-WS6 comments are starting to become more of a buzzword than WS6 itself... WS6 applies to the spring rate that WS6 cars were equipped with, they are about the best handling stock replacement spring that won't set you back alot of coin. He doesn't mean go out and rip some old WS6 springs, he means buy some replacements... With WS6 rates.

You're spot on with your suggestions though. The constant rates ARE the 5665's. If you get the cc635's they will be soft and bouncy until your suspension is put under alot of load, they're meant for people who haul around a carload of people all the time or spend alot of time on the freeway and have no desire for real performance handling.

 

A TBI STB would fit your carb, then have plenty of clearance for a LT1 later.

 

WS6 is not a "buzzword", but an RPO code. It just happens that the 4th gens capitalized on "WS6" as a name/package.

Do you EVER have anything USEFUL to say by itself? Or are you compelled to insert a jab to somebody, EVERY SINGLE TIME you post? Are you 14 years old?

 

Yes, it is. NOW.

I'm well aware that it's a RPO code. I'm equally aware that it had meaning at one time, in a specific limited context, and no longer does. Since it has meant something different to every car in every year that it has been used since the late 70s, it DOES NOT describe some one unique part, like this particular rate and free height of front spring or something. There are probably a hundred or more different front springs that have been used in cars with that RPO.

And I'm even MORE aware that while it got basically no attention before 1998 when they started sticking on the bumper of some cars, since then everybody just throws it around like .... it means something on these earlier cars. You're right, that sticker on those 4th gens was what did it.

People use it as a buzzword to make it sound like some kind of "top of the line" kind of thing. Which of course, it was; but since it doesn't point to any one particular part or anything like that, it's not useful as a description of something you can actually DO or BUY. Personally I find its use juvenile, self-important, and trivial; largely a sure sign of someone not having something useful to say, so they just kind of hide behind it since it sounds kind of semi-technical.Well, I was at one time.... does that still count?

 

sofa, your not making any sense.
ws6 springs are among the stiffest springs available for the f-bodys. if you get a good deal on a set, check into using them. they may do what you want.

 

Actual "WS6" springs would have to be AT LEAST 15 years old, and most likely worn out; and they're not the same from car to car.

Spending effort, and even worse, MONEY, to put used springs in a car, isn't a good idea.

AFAIK you can't go to GM and buy "WS6" springs, because there were SO MANY different varieties. Last I knew, GM doesn't sell springs at all, anyway; and nobody else lists them that way (by RPO). You look them up more like "normal/heavy duty" and "AC/no AC".

The Moog/FM/TRW part #s I gave are the replacements for them. Those are the stiffest replacement ones you can get. FAR FAR FAR stiffer than any of the factory ones were; and certainly, a better way to go than used worn-out ones no matter what RPO they were when they were new.

I have nothing whatsoever against WS6. As I have "disclaimed", I own it myself. I do however, hate to see it used as a buzzword. Since the later cars started getting badged with it, it's turned into being about like "Vortec" or something: seems like somebody just has to drop "the big name" in every conversation, even when it doesn't really convey anything useful, in the sense that you can actually do something with it. Like in this case: you can't go anywhere and buy "WS6" springs, except for used ones, which would be idiotic; so what good does it do to throw it around? How about some "police interceptor" springs? That's another one you see alot. Doesn't mean anything, doesn't help anybody, because you can't walk up to the counter and go "yes I'd like one set of police interceptor springs to go please" and they can actually look them up that way and go back to the shelf and pull them. Same with "WS6". IMO use of that RPO should be reserved for occasions when it's helpful and useful: like historical matters, or comparing original performance of new cars, or stuff like that. It has no application to buying parts TODAY however.

But hey, if you don't like that I don't like people throwing around one of the top-of-the-line RPOs for these cars without knowing what it means or what to do with it, that's cool too. You have the perfect right.

 

Lets all just keep recommending to people to put heavier rate and higher frequency springs on a car when they have crap shocks to try and damper them.

I give up trying to eductae people on this subject. The "experts" just keep recommending whats best for your dong, dong, dong bumpy ride down the road and bounce right off the edge.

For the love of g()d, by good shocks first.

Its just like putting a 500hp motor in a car to do 0-100 in 6 seconds but you don't have any frikin brakes. The shocks control the chassis. THey make the car safe and keep the tires gripped to the road. Your SFC's will be sitting in the junkyard along with your undampered higher rate cut springs and mangled chassis.

I will never post on this topic again. THats my last time...Ahhhhhh.

 

Why don't you tell us how you really feel Dean? ;-)

But, yeah, buy a set of koni's then SFC's and go enjoy it, then read some books and then start learning how to tune your suspension and go from there.

BTW, There are a LOT of f-stock cars with nothing but Koni's on them, that would run circles around "WS6" or cars with all sorts of suspension modifications.

 

Alright guys, no fighting! Just messing- It is good to know how people really feel about things, and how vital some components really are. Up until now, I was under the impression that shocks could wait for a while. NOW I KNOW THEY ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN I THOUGHT.

I dont know how I feel about putting used springs on my car, but it is good to know what to look for if I ever come across a junker, and have the opportunity to pull anything off of it.

I assume at this point I will go with the Moogs(ride height+mufflex = no clearance in CO), and pick up some shocks around the same time. It seems that many people have Koni yellows, and like them alot. I dont want to bounce my red dragon off of the road... After 10-15k in restoring, paint, wheels, tires, and drivetrain- I think I can handle spending a little extra on suspension parts, rather than getting cheapies. Oh and I am waiting to find some LS1 brakes- it is on the to do list.

DURACELL BUNNY- dont get mad because people like me dont know their *** from a hole in the gound when it comes to suspension. LOL. I just want to know what you guys know, and get out the true feelings on the importance of aftermarket suspension components. I hope that DB will post here again. YOU GUYS HAVE NO IDEA HOW CLUELESS I AM/WAS WITH SUSPENSION. I have been reading these forums like a fat kid eats cake.

Until next time- Logan

 

I just feel, you should start with a good foundation. Good springs/good shocks, can only flex, and not dotheir job CORRECTLY, if the chassis is flopping around. My 2 cents...

 

let me play...I pick....tires!

 

Well I have been doing a little research, and i think that i am going to go with UMI SFC, and unknown brand for TBI STB. I am in Iraq right now, so if I order nowish, they should be there by the time I get back!!!

and about tires, that will be a while since i have brand new NEXEN N 3000...

thanks guys

 

Shocks and tires are the most important parts of the suspension when it comes to improving handling. Everything else just helps them do their job better. This is where you should spend the most of your money.

Energizer Bunny wasn't mad at you for not knowing, he's just mad ( at least I think ) because most people give reccomendations without knowing what they are talking about or the importance of the seperate components in a suspension.

Your best bet will be some GOOD dampeners, GOOD tires, SFCs, and then look into springs, then sway bars, then control linkages (LCAs, PHB, Torque arm, etc).

 

I find it funny how in these conversation, the guys with LOTS of suspension mods listed in our sigs, and cars specs all say dampers. Dean, myself, 91_5.7, etc. The people who make no mention to what suspension mods they have done, all list the typical internet buzzwords like LCA brackets.

To the original poster, Dean wasn't mad at you, you asked a question. He was mad at the people giving you bad advice. And trust me I can honestly say that I get frustrated to. You can't get a good idea of who to listen to on the internet, and Dean and I can't sit down and show you and talk to you about all the diffrent spring/shock combo's we have gone through and worked with on our cars, and it is bothersome when you get on here, try to give out sound advice, and the internet keyboard jokey's who have bone stock cars, give out bad advice, and people actualy listen to it.

 

Mad? Me? Nahhhhhhh.

I was just typing in a manor that showed me shaking my head and laughing at responses every time this subject is asked.

I was typing what I thought would be a humourous display non-political correctness. In otherwords- doing what I do best and just flat out speaking my mind like I am famous for.

TO know me is to love me- THere are few of us left in this world and my lovely wife will be the first to tell you how proud she can be of my Deanisms at times. You should all try camping with me in our motorhome in the desert for three days without hookups- I'm a real pleasure to be around when someone leaves the frikin waterpump on after usingthe facility, amoungst many other pet peaves. Then my wife (god love her) has to cook for the British army and run the water tank down washing every pot and pan known to man instead of simply opening a can of chili, pull the label off it, put it in the fire for a few minutes and simply spoon the contents ito your mouth using a throwaway plastic utensil. Its not that hard people...

You know, this kind of entertanment posts... but mad? Nahhh, I don't get mad. Like a wise man once said, " You can't fix stupid." I keep thinking you can. My bad.


By this point, you are either laughing, or you are hating me. Its your choice how you interpet my posts.

And Logan, John (Dewey) is spot on about my first post comment. It was not directed at all towards you. I love to help with advice- solid advice- and if I can't back my advice then I keep my thoughts to myself. I will be the first to say when I am wrong also and appologise and thank others for correcting any misinfo I printed. I will also say I was not born with knowledge and had to also ask and learn myself on anything and everything I consider myself well educted on today. We are not born with it- we have all had to ask and learn at sometime or another. Its those that don't ask and don't try to learn things in life that I pitty. No such thing as a dumb question- unless you ask it twice when already answered (I was trying to be funny with that last bit)

 

Also, to my knowledge (which might be wrong) you want to replace springs when you replace your shocks, because saggy springs can cause the shocks to do more than normal, wearing them out faster.

Uhm, if they're so much stiffer than anything from the factory, why do they have the same spring rates as stock IROC springs? But that's beside the point.

I believe Stephen 87 Iroc has the next step up, the moog 5663's (I think, I know he has harder than IROC springs), which have a higher spring rate. Also, calling them IROC or WS6 springs is an easy way to identify them. We're not saying get used springs, we're saying get IROC-like or WS6-like springs, which amount to the Moog 5662 and 5665's already listed. Heck, you can even give Moog a call and see if they offer any other springs that would fit your car with harder rates.

 

I realize your supposed to do all 4 corners @ the same time
but I'm on a real tight budget.

I just installed moog cc635 & bilstein
rear shocks. (My 16 year old factory shocks were shot)

I really don't think the moog springs were very stiff.
About the same as the old factory ones I took out.
The did raise the rear up apporximately 1 inch higher.

 

The cargo coils get stiffer as they get compressed. They're variable rate springs, and they also almost always lift the rear end when installed. That's why I'm going with the fixed rate 5665's. Doing all four corners is nice, but if you have to, I'd do at least fronts or rears at the same time.

 

I think these guys are right-on with educating yourself by getting some books on suspension 101. Go to your local Library, see what they've got before you fork over some $$ at Barnes n Noble. I'd focus on upgrading your struts/shocks and springs first, though. The susp. is necessary to drive your car, bracing isn't.
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If money was the issue, I'd work on the front end first.
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Personally, It seems like a "Chicken and Egg" thing about chassis bracing and suspension with a unibody. If the suspension sucks it hammers your chassis, if the chassis isn't braced it hammers your suspension..either way, the end result is a car that creaks & shakes itself apart. If you can afford it, replace the springs & shocks together, then add the bracing after. Also, the stiffer your springs, front struts, & rear shocks are, the harsher the ride will be.
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Mine is almost bone stock and I've got a stress crack forming on the driver's side of the roof/door. It's small still. My car isn't raced or beat on and I just turned 83,000 on her. My suspension is starting to get tired. Her struts are starting to weep a little. The springs seem fine and the front suspension is still tight, but at 21 years old, It all needs to all be replaced...cheaper than killing myself, wrecking my 'Bird, or hurting someone else. I'm putting a completely-new suspension (Moog & Koni's) and also adding on a TDS wonderbar & (?-Mfg) sub-frame connectors all at the same time. I've already got Comp-Eng. control arms on her. The rest of it will come in stages.
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Just my

 

hey guys. i really appreciate all the imput.

i do agree that getting some books will help me understand what i should expect from each suspension component.

you guys have helped alot, and i am certain that i am going to get some new springs, shocks, and SFC. after that, i am going to get comfortable with the car's new found power and handleing. at that point i will decide what i would like to improve on the suspension next(after of coarse, reading and researching... suspension 101)

so basically where i am at now is picking right spring/ shock

you guys rock btw

logan

 

Yes, I agree with the priority and recommendations. And as far as used springs go- I think used springs off a performance model are better than the used springs off a base model. As long as they're not damaged. BTW I believe the WS6 code goes way back to at least the early 70's second gen if not the first. And it does mean something! Although it may have changed from model to model. (not a Firebird expert) And it is thrown around a bit. Not sure I'd call it a buzzword til a bunch of prople are cought trying to pass off "regular" parts as WS6. It'd be the same for Z28 parts or IROC parts or GTA parts...