Tell us how you like them after the install.

You know you like thread battles......

 

Good luck with yours! Mine didn't come out so well. We had to do it on our backs, also without taking the ehaust off! Advice: Take off your y-pipe and cat at all costs. A shop will have the tools to do it, and it wont cost too much more. Also, weld the 3rd member (real small one) to the passenger SFC beforehand.

To do this, you need to jack the SFC into place, and position the 3rd member tight over the exhaust pipe, and tight against both the subframe and the SCF tube.

Dont weld it all at once like we did-



The driver side welds right up. Unless your subframes are bent like mine were.



for more info, see my thread [link]https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...onnectors.html[/link]

Good Luck! I cant wait to see if yours make a difference in the car. Because if they do, that means welding mine up more will help!

 

Sorry. Unfortunately that always happens because someone thinks they know how their car bends and twists in real life conditions, and they think they know how best to resist that, and they are completely wrong. Unless someone connects some strain gages up to their car in multiple locations, any solid statements are pretty much useless.

The only downside to the Alstons is they arent connected to anything else but the front and rear 'frame' rails. The Spohn (and maybe UMI) are connected at more locations and at least with the Spohn as I understand it you can stitch weld them to the rockers. I dont know that you can do that with the UMI, maybe. BMR makes some too, FYI. But since you already bought the UMI's, when they are installed see if they can stitch weld them at all to the rockers or not.

As far as figuring out what the entire chassis is doing, its pretty complicated. I dont imagine anyone has the tools, time, or patience anywhere on this board to correctly determine mathematically what forces are in a thirdgen in use. As far as pro racing, go look up Hendrick. They have a revolving 3D model of their Nascar chassis and you might find... a lot of square stuff. As far as the engine twist being the primary issue, and its not, take a look at how the car counteracts that force. If in fact the entire car was twisting around the centerline of the crank, take a cross section through the front seats and doors. If it was actually twisting around the center, its like a bicycle wheel with the axle being the crank. Attach a toothpick to the rim (thats like putting the SFC at the rockers), and turn the wheel (torsional force applied by the wheel) and what force is in the toothpick? Did it twist, or did it bend? Once you've determined thats a bending force, you can apply your knowledge to select a proper reinforcement to counteract that. I'd say the one with the most area of steel that will fit in the confines of the area between the rockers and the floorpan is the best. Laterally connected at multiple locations would be nice as well. Stitch welds and cross pieces somewhat address this.

 

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You can "stitch" the UMI ones to the floorpan. To do this, you need to measure the gap between the floor and the connector. Home Depot or Lowes sell all different sizes of steel rod, or round stock. Get the one that is just small enough to weld in, and it will do a great job. I chose not to go this route, figuring that it would be useless on my LO3. Plus I didnt want to take the carpet up. I probably will do this in the summer tho.

Here is Al Hasse's car:

 

Enough third gens at that house!?!?!?^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Slow_90firebird

Those welds are don't so great. you should grind it down alittle as see if it ok! But I like how that sub frame has a extra piece that angles out to the the trans area. Are these angles bars the same size as the main SFC? And about what size box is that? Thanks

CamaroPunk

Just relax. The question was asked and is being answered in a positive matter. I think the debate is at a end anyways. You got your SFC so your questions where answered and your thread was usefull. Let use all know how well they do or don't work. As well as install pics.

Gaccett32

I don't know what else to say. But where is a very-very low amount of twist but like less than 1/4"-1/2". I can jack my car up near any wheel lift 3 wheels off the ground. I think it is important to "frame" in the body. Meaning tube or boxed make a huge square out of it. NOTE: better to use angled supports! So I will give up on this at this point.

Madmax

Thanks for trying to explain this. I am sure there are many on TGO that are happy for your input. Thanks

 

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Well, you got 1 hell of a deal on install then. Every shop in my town refused to do it. They all knew exactly what they were too, one guy even had them on his car. But they all said they couldnt do any welding, that involved welding to the body of the car.

The only shop in town that would do it was J&M corvette center. They wanted $180 just for the welding, plus hourly for any additional time the prepwerk took (like grinding the powdercoat off the SFC, undercoating off the car, and dropping the exhaust.

 

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madmax and 2fast4u92z, I will leave you with this. Choose to believe want you want.

http://rileydynamics.com/m-eng%20web/sec3.htm

 

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Im still waiting till I have money. But they are still holding up fine on my car.

I think my main issue was reading everybody's posts about how adding SFC's basically was like a whole new car. I expected too much. I still can notice some things they improoved on though, like going over a bump with the RR tire will now pick up they whole right side of the car.

Also, summertime will tell about the t-top squeaks. My buddy with a camaro vert says his ragtop is silent in the summer, but will squeak like a bitch in cold weather. So mayne the cold weather makes a difference.

I still plan on getting them welded more. I was actually thinking about investing in a welder when I get a job. That way I dont have to rely on any buddies, and I can get them welded exactly like I want.

Everybody says the welds on my car are shitty. Well, maybe they are, but I just checked them today, and no stress cracks yet! Also, the guy that did it for me really had the heat cranked on the welder. He said it was hot enough to scramble the metals together from the SFC to the subframe, almost like brazing. He said, if it were to break, the sheetmetal will tear on the outside of the welds before they break themselves.

 

N/a

 

All that shows is you dont know what you're looking at.

 

Ditto


Camaropunk be carefull there and who you let install this just cuz some greezemonkey works at a muffler shop doesn't mean he even knows what he's doing. I am just saying it doesn't make him a Pro. needs to me done on a drive lift the the suspension loaded. Grind off powder-coat (I alway bet bar metal products) and any weld should look like a flush stacked dimes. Also it is important to finish the weld, like on edges or points have the weld go around the corner. I spent maybe 3-4hr welding every last spec of metal on metal I could find.

 

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Doesn't need to be a drive on lift. Spohn doesn't even install them with a drive on lift.

If you're not on a frame rack with the frame being held straight though, the suspension DOES need to be loaded. Which can be accomplished by driving the car up on some wood, jacking under the cross member, pulling the front tires, lifting the car by the A-Arms and wherever else you want to lift it, and then putting those tall jacks under the rear diff. Let it down until the rear stops moving up. It makes sense when you do it

In a day or so I will have pictures of everywhere you need to be careful with your carpet while stitch welding Spohn SFC's. Took the burnt nasty carpet out of the car, and I can see where ALL of the welds were. Scary. Surprised it didn't catch fire all over.

 

True but alot easyer to do and get a clean install my way. I have 20 lifts available to me. Plus almost any tool under the sun. But one summer we did a twin turbo and trans install in a one car garage with jacks and 2"x4". VERY dangerous. Buddies car need it done ASAP couldn't wait.

My 3rd gen SFC where done by a drive on 4 point lift. then when we started the restore and had it flipped over did all the other supports! Nice when it is like that, just like working on a work bench.

 

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slow_90firebird:
I'm glad that I didn't get the UMI pieces if that's where they tie on. The haynes manual lists those as the jacking points, and I indeed used them to jack the car. They look exactly like yours, except maybe a little bit worse from the time I left the car on stands overnight to put in a shift kit.

There's no real safe place to put jack stands on these cars. Pinch welds? HA! Rear end? Not if you like your sway bar. "Frame" bracing? They bend. Under the A-Arms? Better hope it's sturdy. Someone at GM dropped the ball there.

 

Well.. Just ordered my UMI's the other day. This thread made me decide which route to go as well. Decided its about time to install them. The 383/procharger setup is making cracks behind my doors (woops) Kepp you guys posted as well

 

I jack up right on my sfc and it is a large flat area. The lift points on are cars are the front and rear frame ends. works great. But I think the SFC is by far the very best jack point.


BlownZ28man-

I know what you mean i have seen so many cars to that. Mine never did but I am still have that area cut and welded. Just a small 45* cut right at the 90* corner of the window. Say 1" long then weld it up.

 

I voted UMI, as I just got mine in last week. Not installed yet, but they are some hefty looking pieces, I think they'll be great under the car.

 

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Ordered them on the 17th. Let you guys know when they come in. Thanks!

 

I'd like to see those pics...

I have a set sitting in my garage that I'm waiting to install. I'm going to take the carpet all the way out though, just to be safe...

 

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I think you're better off calling them, at least then they can handle your questions right there, emails can get lost or overlooked. I know with mine, I got an email from them stating that my stuff was shipped the day after I recieved the stuff. But it arrived about 2 weeks after I ordered so that seems fair. i had a billing problem too, and after a phone call to them, they told me 2-3 bus days to resolve, and it was, so I'm pretty happy with my service. Sorry to hear you arent pleased, maybe you'll be more happy with the quality of your sfcs.

 

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I am sorry for the delayed shipping. I had to fire our sandblaster last Wednesday.. all powder coating and got delayed and pushed out and messed our entire schedule up.. it was a mess. We worked ALL weekend in order to get caught back and get the orders out.

I am sorry for not replying, I signed into my e-mail on Monday morning and saw 5 e-mails from you and just wasn't in the mood to read the complaints, I apologize for that...

Thanks for the business, you will be very pleased with the SFC's

Ryan

 

Yeah, sandblasting kinda sucks. My buddy has a powdercoat shop, and he does the blasting in a seperate trailer because its so messy.

 

LOL, yep. It is a dirty job and very hard to find a hard worker that wants to do it.

 

I like how you replied as soon as something was posted here. I dont beleive any of my emails where complaints except my last one. My others where simply asking when my item would REALLY ship since I was lied to about the thursday and the time before that. You said so yourself you ignored my emails becasue you didnt feel like it. Either way I still beleive I should of been replied to and let known of the situation that was delaying my order. Made me feel as if you have my money you dont care now. Im extremely unhappy with the service, But these SFC's Appeat to be pretty nice. I will post pics up later.

 

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Not tring to be a ***** or anything. But those SFC are thin. Mine must be twice as wide. I would do a weld along the floor board to the sfc every 6" with that. I also don't see why people get them powercoated at all. as alot of the coating need to be grinded of to weld up?

 

The pictures make them look thin. They are made from 2" x 1-1/2" x 1/8" rectangular tubing. This size fits nicely into the seam of the car under the door and they do not hang down so low they cause any problems.

 

I just don't like where they tie in. Most manuals say that that location is a jacking point, and mine are all bent up from that. The Spohn's tied in in different locations that were still in virgin condition on my car.

Looks like you'd be able to run UMI's and Alstons too, btw.

 

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'Thin' in the direction shown in the picture (how it would be installed in the car) doesn't have a whole lot to do with the strength as installed in the car. Thats actually a much better way to orient a rectangular section in a car. It would be weaker if it was rotated 90 degrees.

 

Everyone I tell who doesn't own a F-body wonders why I got SFC's.

Everybody with F-bodies wonders how I have a 350 with T-tops and no stress cracks in the body/frame.

 

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Alright, I am assuming that you have not welded the little 3rd member to the main passenger SFC yet. Also, I am assuming that you have some exhaust that follows the stock routing.

If both those are true, you can do this. Take the passenger SFC, without the little piece. Slide the front part of the SFC over the y-pipe and catalytic. Then, lift the rear section into place where it bolts up. You can stick the bolt through if you want, just to test fit.

Once the back is bolted in, the front should be resting on the exhaust pipe. Crawl under the right side of the car, and push the front up against the mounting location. You can use a floor jack and 2x4 scrap wood to hold the front in place.



You should really test fit them anyway, and use white-out or a marker to outline where the welds are gonna bo on the car. Then take them back out, and grind away the undercoating.

Any other questions, just ask and I will try and answer.

 

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Or you can borrow somebodys mig, and do it yourself if you are so inclined

good luck either way!

 

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I took my car to a frame shop, thats all they did there was straighten and repair vehicle frames. They had no issues whatsoever either on the phone or when I brought it in. "Yep, no problem. We can do that."
And they did. Since my car was a pretzel to begin with I had them put it on the rack and then weld it up.

 

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Yea, it was many years ago but was not cheap. They wanted... I think it was 125 or 150 for the install itself. I paid double that for some repairs and the rack.

 

thats not too bad, I looked into getting my car pulled on the rack, and they wanted 150 just to check it, and over 300 for the first pull if it needed one. They said if the car was tweaked, it would usually need a few different pulls from different angles, so that it would quickly add up to well over 300.