anyone here running tubular a arms and 18 inch wheels?


if so i need opinions
my car is a daily driver car the car itself is kind of low and im wondering if tubular a arms lowers the vehicle anymore. i seen a few people saying it does. if so how much..

today i had a balljoint go out on me. popped out of place and things are so
pretty there. ill be replacing the balljoin but im also looking into tubular a arms.

im running eibach sport lines, koni yellow, and i can only run 18 inch wheels up front because im running the 14" brembo kit on a 265 35 r 18 tire up front

 

I have 18s and UMI's tubular a-arms...I don't think they affected the ride height of my car. If they did, it wasn't a dramatic change in ride height. I believe the people that have had problems with their tubular a-arms affected the ride height of their car had Spohn's a-arms.

 

sounds good im diggin the umi products and wanted to confirm with someone on here.

exactly what ill be going with.

 

I believe the Spohn issue has been fixed. Before you decide on the UMI A-Arms please do some research on Poly vs Delrin. Poly is NOT a material I would be comfortlabe with in my A-Arms.

 

poly in the a-arms is still better than rubber. why do you not feel comfortable with it? its not like the rear LCA's where there is some twisting/bind issues with poly.

but UMI does offer, or is in the works of offering delrin bushings for the a-arms. I have a set in the works for mine.

as for th arms altering ride height. No stock replacement A-arm, tubular or not, should ever affect the height unless stated. I have 2 sets of UMI arms, only 1 installed thus far, but no affect in wheel position.

The only height issues i have every heard of was with Spohns, but in not sure if the problem was with the a-arms or their k-member. I dont know if its been resolved or not.

 

I do not see an option on UMI's website for delrin a-arm bushings. I'm not saying they don't offer it, but its not on their website.

I reason I don't like Poly is because it has a much higher tendency to bind than rubber, delrin, or rod ends. And it would be most likely to bind right when you least want it, cornering hard. When the bind releases, it can really upset the stability of the car. This is particularly bad on the track where you are pushing the limit. With all the delrin options out there, and for minimal cost, why would anyone bother with poly?

The second reason I don't like poly is because it has a much higher tendency to squeak than the other materials. To me a squeaking suspension is unacceptable.

These are the reasons I try to avoid poly. I would actually prefer fresh rubber bushings over poly, at least rubber won't potentially put me in a dangerous situation. Fortunately, there are vendors that make delrin suspension bushings for our cars, UMI, Spohn, GW.

 

not on their site, i was talking with Ryan about some other work and parts.

as for the poly, i see your point, wasnt looking at it that way. Properly lubricated, poly wont sqeek, never had a problem with my current set, and tye wont bind, but yes, left alone without proper lubrication they can bind and stick causing issues as you discribed.

 

I also have UMI A arms along with a spohn k member. didn't lower the car anymore then it was. I'd suggest going with a K-member and A arm swap if you have the funds, looks nice plus allows for more exhaust clearance and work space + plus drops a few pounds.

 

installing my umi tubular a arms tmrw noticed they dont have the bumpstop or the the bushing that faces up. will i run into any issues?? .. anyone know the torque specs on the ball joint nut on top of their head?

 

Traditional bump stops are a bad idea on tubular a-arms because of where they would hit. Instead purchase strut shaft mounted bump stops. Spohn, Koni, Ground Control all sell them. I use the Ground Control ones, they work fine.

I see you went with the UMI's. Based on UMI's website there is no indication they have a steering stop installed on them. Is that true? What are you supposed to do for a steering stop? My Spohn's have a steering stop. I'd hate to see you dent up your new a-arms at full steering lock. I'd check to make sure the spindle doesn't hit the a-arm at full lock before you drive the car.

 

Yeah, the UMI ones dont have a steering stop, and spohns dont either, though they offer one which is pretty much a bolt on shaft collar from what i can tell from the pics. Is that the stop on your arms, or have things changed?

as for the spindle hitting, they dont hit my arms even at full lock. they may hit differently on the spohn ones because the 2 arms are made differently.

I only have 8" wheels up front, and the wheel will hit the frame by the steering box before they hit the a-arms. Im not sure about the back, but last time i looked i still had over 1" to the arm at full lock, dont remember if it was hitting the frame yet, but assuming the frame is in the same place on both side of the car, the opposite wheel should have been toughing the frame in the front.

As for fabbing a steering stop, i dont see it being very hard, should be able to use a shaft collar similar to spohns and some other mild fab depending on where the spindle stop lands.

 

so i should be ok without the bump stop because i have some pretty wide tires on a 8.5 rim. for some reason i was confused thinking installed the coils backwards. realized then that eibach lettering suppose to be pointing upwards with the flat surface on top .. note: i had ditched the upper isolators do they play and important role to the suspension?? i never had an issue but just wondering.

reason being is because umis a arms have a completely flat surface where the coils sits at. so i just came into anan issue raising the a arm to compress the coil so i can close up the gap and mount the spindle assembly and get it going. i ran out of time though and the coil kept popin out of place. soo il get back on it on my day off or possibly tmrw.

 

Spohn a-arms have the steering stop built into arms. Not a bolt on collar. In case you don't believe me, here is a pic.



As for fabbing a steering stop. Sure you could but why would you go through all that work and cost instead of just buying a complete product to begin with?

 

Tire width has nothing to do with bump stops. You need to get a bump stop in there.

 

never said i didnt believe you, this is what i was refeering too.
http://www.spohn.net/shop/Replacemen...Rear-Tube.html

I have never seen Spohn arms with the stops like you have before, it must be a new thing for them?

 

its not a lot of work, a couple minutes tops.

Some people just prefer certain vendors for one reason or another, or particular parts from one vendor or another because of how they are built and what kind off past feedback there is about them.

Like i said before though, i havent had any problems without the stops, but i know that doesnt mean its not possible

 

Yes, I know you love to point out deficiencies in Spohn's products regardless of validity or how long ago they fixed them. I'm not sure what problems you have with Spohn. But please stop spreading misinformation. Provide the facts and let people make their own decisions.

As for retro-fittingthe UMI arms. Yeah you could do that, but by the time your re-powerd coated them you'd be out another $100.

 

I have seen those clamps before. I assume they they are for their older arms. I wonder how many people have purchased them to "fix" other company's a-arms?

 

I never pointed a finger at Spohn directly here, or any other vender. I have Spohn parts on both my cars, and have dealt with them for years now. I have had, and currently still have problems with certain parts of his, and am stuck with them for now until i get around to making my own "fixes".

As for UMI, they too have parts that i dont like and wont buy. Never said they were perfect.

I didnt mean to start a argument here, but one seems to be starting. sorry. I'll stop.

 

Yea width doesn't matter. I meant to say that my 265 35 r 18 tires already have rubbing issues so I assumed that my sipnidle assembly doesn't hit my aarms I will have to find out for my self when I get the car on the ground. my issue I that I purchased them ....back to topic. Had a couple of issues concerning the coils and isolaters if anyone followed up on that.

 

the upper rubber ring is just an insulator, helps eliminate squeaking from metal to metal contact. Usually people just slide a piece of heater hose ont he last coil and be done with it. Not having it wont hurt, but they "may" squeak occasionally.

as for the coil on the bottom falling through the perch, was that the other problem? i didnt have that problem, but i have weight jacks and had the adjusters all the way up when i put them together.

 

Not an argument. Both of our experiences are useful.

Terror,

I think you are confusing steering stop and bump stop. You need to add a bump stop regardless of what tires you are using. Here is a link to the kind that I use. They work well.

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...php/II=10/CA=1

 

Sounds fair .. I struggled a bit with the sportline springs but I was in a hurry and just left it as is. Ill get back on it...yeah bump stops are abit unecessary in this case..*tubular arm set up..
steering stops well imma have to figure out if they hit. But from people who have tubular a arms it looks like there is a high expectancy rate that the the back of the spindle assembly will hit theside of the a arm?*since steering stops aren't in place

 

how well do these work? do you have enough strut travel to not be sitting on the stops at rest? IIRC your car is pretty low.

 

IDK, from what i've experienced, the spindle cant hit the a-arms before the tires hit the frame, even with a modest width tire. I will have to pull a wheel on my 86 and see whats going on down there. Unless the spindle stops were removed from my spindles when they were converted for the brakes upgrade, never noticed.

 

Yeah I'm a bit confused also. Seeing that u can add the steer bump stop like the clamp ons are those ground control bump stops necessary or adaptable to the umi a arms?

 

the GC bump stops posted above are shaft mounted and go on the strut, they are the bump stops. the steering stop, the clamp on thing io posted from Spohn, it the steering stop, stops the spindle when you are turning, different application.

 

Every car needs bump stops regardless of tires, wheels, suspension. They prevent the suspension from compressing to far, protecting struts, tires, body work, ect.

The ones in the link I gave go on the strut shaft, so the strut can't overcompress. With my ride height, they leave about 1.5" of suspension travel before they begin to compress. That is with J&M strut mounts which raise the mounting point about 1" over stock.

At full compression the tire gets close to the inner fender liner. So I wouldn't want much more travel anyway. However I am considering cutting a 1/2" off the bumpstop to gain a little bit more travel. There is enough material on the stop to do this easily.

Terror, Here is a pic to showing them installed. See the white part on the strut mount.


86,
I ended up raising the car a little bit to make it a little more driveable.

Here is a pic of it sitting on the ground control bumpstops.


And here is the ride height I ended up with. Its has 1.5" of travel on front and back.

 

that looks like the perfect height

i'll have to look into the shaft mount stops, I think they may be just what i've been looking for.

 

thanks 87350IROC do u have a pn on those bump stops. measurements? diameter? fot the koni application

i just had some issues setting the coil in place since the umi dont have in indent mark on where to place the coil. i did as bast as i could in this hot cali weather.

 

The product is on following link.

http://www.ground-control-store.com/...php/II=10/CA=1

I use the "Soft Strut" ones.

 

sounds good ill be ordering a pair. thanks

 

hey guys are these clamp on steering stops compatible with the umi a arms

http://www.spohn.net/shop/1982-1992-...oduct&pid=2012

 

I'd like to know this too...but I currently have my steering column apart so I can't check for myself.

 

Well those Spohn clamps claim they are for 1.25" tubes and UMI claims to have 1.25" tubes. So I think they would work.

 

Yes, but the UMI arms have these (circled in black), and the Spohn arms do not.

 

i bought these from spohn, i asked them before i bought them if they would fit on UMI a-arms and they said "i couldn't tell ya if they did".. So I took a chance, ordered, and no they don't fit.. My mechanic tried to put them on but found the spindle didn't come in contact with it and there was no way to get it on. I called up UMI and they said they have no plans to fab up one for their a-arms.. You would think that these companies (not singleing any of them out) would make these built in to have atleast the same functionality than stock.. Very disappointed.

 

Thats a bummer. What do you plan to do?

 

I just read this enitire post for the first time and just got to this and went OMFG. THen I saw the pic of their A-arms below this quote to confirm this.

Phil, I would think you would know better, I would take the Spohn arm over this engineered nightmare- No spring index? I guess people do not understand spring articulation geometry and how that Helix will rotate and alter ride heights from side to side as well as alter linear spring rate compression. But of course, since its from Umi, I will get accused of bashing them with some personal vendetta when I am merely just pointing out a fact and a major flaw.

On to a Spohn steering stop on an Umi Arm? No. Even though the tube size may be the same, the placement of the jig bends of tubing can and probably will differ in how the spindle approaches the tube where this collar is placed to stop the spindle. I would just learn not to turn the wheel too far. Pretty easy to know your car's turning capabilty and not grind the tire against the wheel well.

 

I drove my car a for a few miles since the install.. this is ganna be an issue when I start driving it.

 

Crap, I just typed a novel and lost it- here goes again.

I just did a scketch to show the problem with the A-arms you bought without an index ramp. An index ramp is best welded into the A-arm with the end of the helix shape of the spring furthest from the pivot points of the a-arm frame mount (needs to be equally clocked in index position on both left and right sides of the car for equal ride height and articulation consistancy in spring rate.)

Ex A, B, and C are shown on an attachment below. WHat you may encounter right now WITHOUT an A-arm fixed index for the factory helix lower end of the springs is positions on both side of the car that will range somewhere within the perameters of ex A and ex B.

As ex A articulated upwartd in compression motion, the the helix end of the spring is not flat against the A-arm and actually worsens in geometry. When it rebounds and the angle a-arm lowers, what happens is the articulation comes back down to a point where the spring helix shape can and probably will travel enough ( based on car ride height) to flatten the hleix against the flat A-arm spring pocket for about half a coils and deaden the free coil ratio suddenly- this is opposite of what a linear coil spring should do and increases rate suddenly on rebound, not compression...

....same is true in reverse fashion when referencing ex B. It will articulate upward in compression to a point where the spring will finally flatten and match angles with the A-arm flat pocket and suddenly rapidly incease rate though a deadened free coil- again not linear.

Springs not fixed in clocked install position will vary ride install height from left to right siode of the car, Even if placed in exact smae spots, driving on them can and generally will render movement on rotation and throw the clocking position off since there is no index ramp fixed position.

Ex C shows a correct index ramp welded in position matching the spring helix shape and keeping the bottom of the spring more linear on free coil loss through articulation.

EDIT:I can't get the picture up for some reason. Give me time to work on it.

 

Got it. I had the image in Bitmat and not Jpeg

 

yeah i tried to place both sides as best as i could *equally clocked in index position. it was a difficult task but it looked pretty close but once i sat the car back with the wheels ,the passenger appeared to be a bit higher then the driver side. i was able to notice a 1/2" to inch difference..

ever since my little incident ive probably driven the car about 50 miles on the umi a arms. alignment needs to be done.. i ordered the the bump stops and need to add something to decrease the metal to metal contact up on top . *hose mod or any other suggestions?

but right now my main issue is the steering stops which has me worried.

 

i dont have steering stops but i have a new 670 lee steering box with new internal stops and it seems that THIS stops before the wheel or spindle ever hits anything... I would have to confirm this tho..

 

bump any umi representatives aware of this issue?

 

I installed strut shaft bump stops from spohn, they seem to fit well but i'm getting a very annoying squeaking sound every time i turn left, and it's coming from the right side.. I'm thinkin it could be this spring problem now..

 

bump

 

ok so this weekend i will be pulling down my suspension . haven had time until this week.

one adding gc bump stops
two doing the hose mod
three alignment

question is.... would it be best to do the hose mod on both ends of the coils since my great umi a arms don't have an index point or just the top..

i have been hearing thumping sound.. not sure if its the lack of the bump stop or the lack of insulation in between the k member and coils.

 

I would send the arms back to them and get your money back. I can't beleive they have no index points on them and obviously UMI is avoiding this subject and hoping this thread and you go away.

 

Vetruck, what does an index point do? How does it affect handling and safety of the car?