this is strictly an opinion of mine as a tig welder of 20+ years,... the weld should NEVER crack, if welded and fabricated properly. even if you crashed a car at 100mph, the weld shouldnt break. the part, can break. thats to be expected. i think were on the same page about that.
i find it scary, looking at the OPs pictures, even for drag racing. this is not a safe part and should be adressed before somebody gets hurt.
i do commend you for offering a replacement of a safer looking part, and coming on here with an explanation.

 

It would be more accurate to compare it to an OEM spindle that has been modified for aftermarket brakes. Since the Racecraft won't work with OEM brakes anyway.

The spindles mods probably drop around ~1lb. I would imagee they weigh in the neighborhood of 12-15lbs. I can weigh a few this weekend.

John

 

Agreed, this is why its important to not use hand welded parts in critical operations. In my industry we never use welded parts for primary structure.

 

I couldn't agree more...... Think of all the drag racers that pull the front wheels a foot or more off the line and slam down, Then cross the line at 100+ MPH.....

 

whats the purpose of a drop spindle for drag racing? I'm not that big into drag racing so, if there is a purpose, I really don't know what it is.

I do see the huge benefit of a drop spindle for a corner carver, though.

Must say though, if the road race version was available and now the company is so set on not making them anymore, I feel that there could have still been an issue there!? I would have liked to have had a set of these rather than using extended ball joints and cutting springs. but, I guess I'll never buy a set. probably others that won't buy them after reading some of the company rep's post, too.

 

This is the exact same thing I'm wondering as well.

 

To lower the car for aerodynamics and not have horrible bumpsteer, and to lose weight.

 

Our spindles are on the fastest cars in the country, and they cross the finish line at 200+ MPH.

 

This line is whats scary to me,


"We have ran our spindles for over 7 years and have had very few failures, most of which are due to improper use or crashes. "


Most of wich are due to improper use or crashes? Most? How many failures have there been? How many have been sold? Whats the precentage of failure rate?

 

Improper use: using them for street use or autocross. This is the ONLY spindle I have personally seen come back that has failed.

Crashed: putting the car in the wall when the driver blew the tires off and lost control or putting it on the bumper and smashing the k-member, headers, oil pan, etc. None of which have to do with the spindle failing and both would destroy any factory part as well.

I do not have sales numbers to tell you failure percentage rate but out of the thousands we have sold I doubt we have had more than 3 come back. Also, we have never had a spindle come back broken when used as intended.

Also, we did discover we had a design problem with one of the steering arms for a different spindle before I started here. They fixed the issue, then contacted EVERY SINGLE BUYER of those spindles and told them to send them back and they would be replaced for free.

 

Just spoke with Matt on the phone. I guess I don't have the roadrace spindle. They will fix it.
There is a lot of variation in the aftermarket industry, duh! I'm confident and have experience, that they will give me a quality product. I will take my spindles off, blast off the powder coating, and send them in for the roadrace upgrade.
I realize that this is not everyone's personal choice, but I'm confident in their quality.
Brian

 

Edit - Removed - missed earlier comments in thread.

 

Brian,

If you would, please weigh them before and after the upgrade. I am curious for historical reasons.

Also, I think all of use would be interested in some pictures after you blast them.

Thanks,

John

 

Sure John
Car is at the paint shop. Could be done today, tomorrow, or Mon. Anxious!

 

Excellent. A picture of the car with fresh paint would be great as well.

 

Brought the car back to the ranch, today. Fresh Paint!!!
Wing is loosely attached for transport, so don't worry about the gap.
If you're interested, more info here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...ml#post5498730

I'll take the spindles out this weekend.

 

we hand weld all our race car chassis , top fuel/top alcohol dragster/funny car jet cars pro mods etc etc , i would never trust a robot to weld any of these things

 

Sure in the pro drag racing world you have so many load paths it really doesn't matter if you lose one or two. Not to mention you are protecting one guy who is accepting the danger. On top of that the low production and unique geometry does not lend itself to robotic welding. On top of that you are talking about a one time crash load in a drag racing chassis, not exactly the same as the fatigue cracks we are talking about here. In my world we protect the unknowing public, hands welds are unacceptable. Really welding at all is very rare due to its poor inspectability.

You may not trust robotic welding, but once they are programmed they will provide a statistically consistent result that a human just cannot match.

 

i dont doubt the ability of robotic welding i just find it hard to belive they are that much better then an expert human welder, we have repair ours and other companys chassis that have been wrecked and never once was there a broken weld , the tubing always bends and or breaks first

theres a few spot son a top fueler/alky car that are higly streessed the motor plate to chassi tabs and the rear end housing tabs , along with the wing struts and supports and mounting tabs not to mention just foward of the drivers feet were the chassi will actually get shorter as it goes down the track

ive never dealt with robotic welders before though i have seen them in action but im curious i bet the part fitment and gaps of the parts to be welded have to be pretty damn near perfect???? if not this would affect the final weld quality wouldnt it

 

You should really leave this site as I did. 99.9% of the people on here will never buy a Racecraft part and you do not need to come on here state your claim as a representative. You'd have to be a complete fool to buy a spindle for a road race car from a primarily a drag racing products website. Some idiot here will probably buy a rear antiroll bar for their road racing car and blame you that it pushed them into the wall and not around it when cornering the car at 60 mph. Yet, the majority think it's your co's fault by running a drag racing spindle in a road race application. Common sense is definitely a problem here.

 

You have not left this site - FALSE CLAIM, you just posted
99.9% - show me your data - FALSE CLAIM
You do not need to come here - why do you marginalize others? Are you the site ****? Why do you want to push others?
Common sense is definitely a problem here - TRUE CLAIM, wrong object

I'm sure glad a certain chicken farmer did not stay in his "field" of expertise and ventured out into a new area. We are all better for it. To imply that a drag racing company can not put its expertise into road racing is not as great of a leap from chickens to race cars!

 

Man.... I wish I was as smart as you

 

ummm.. the item was sold with an option for "road racing".. That implies that it is for road racing too, not only drag..

 

Don't we all. Hes so smart he has both left and yet is still here.

Just remember to heed his advice, just stick to what you know, don't go chasing waterfalls. That is totally the attitude that got us to the moon.

 

Fenton6- Why don;t we take a little walk back into the archieves of this board where your RACECRAFT OWNER= MARK WILKINSON replies on a group purchase drop spindle thread telling everyone to (and I quote him)," Look at our CORNER CARVERS thread on OUR website..."

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/grou...-group-10.html

Post #490 from MARK WILKINSON aka RACECRAFT-
Super_kev,

Yes, we will weld the entire spindle before we ship them, if you look at our corner carvers thread on our site you can se how we weld the Mustang spindles. There is a reason we had to rotate the strut mount like the AJE.
The spindle moving upward toward the strut mount creates a situation where you cannot get a bolt in the lower mounting position. If we keep the strut mounted in the stock position we will not be able to get a bolt in the lower hole. I did not read your entire review, I did notice the trimming that you did on the K-member, did that solve the problem? I will go back and read the entire review. Right now the only brake holes are the dust cover holes that we drilled and tapped. It looks like other brackets can be bolted to these holes ? I am not sure ? Like the Mustang spindle we started out building them for drag racing with tubular K-members and coil over kits. Now we need to modify our design to cover other set ups. The spindle is a full 2" drop.

Thanks, Mark

 

Then also for Fenton and the other idiot that is supporting this drag race only clause-

Lets look at that same thread where in post 493 MARK WILKINSON RCECRAFT OWNER says this-

Thanks Scooter,

The spindles are beefy, but we want to make sure they will work for a variety of customers. We built them on the same type of format we used on the Mustang spindles this has proved to be successful in the past. We will post the weights soon, but you are right they weight about the same as stock. Durability is our first priority.

Thanks, Mark


YES- THE SPINDLES ARE BEEFY< BUT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY WILL WORK FOR A VARIETY OF CUSTOMERS!!!!!

Welders on crack- I swear. Fenton6- go do some more crack buddy.

Dean

ps- just in case those posts mysteriously disappear in the next few days, they were made by him in Oct 2007 prior to any of the 3rd gen spindles being sold.

 

What was that you were saying idiot?

 

Good stuff, Dean.

 

Yep, its a weak weld, bottom line.

Does not matter what the material is or how thick it is, if the weld is no good, the product is no good.

The weld clearly failed.

 

I have #8.8 - piece of shop rag and tape over spindle snout and option #2 Cody gave me to cut gusset and reinforce all added maybe #.1 - .2
I'll blast them on Monday.

 

i make jet eng parts for a living...that part in the pic has bad welds!..
we crush parts that dont look right. even before testing..for the price we charg...they get what they pay for. takes money to make money..

we sell to every body who makes jet aircraft..not just in the U.S.A.

and if one lawn Darts..it's a bit more then a upset buyer...ya know.

YOU CAN SAY WHAT YA WANT..but even Rain Man. Can see that weld sucks.
we can also just say..it only let go at the welds...so whats that Tell ya...

 

I measured at stock spindle that has been modified for aftermarket brakes, including removing the steering stop to be 11.1lbs.

John

 

I would think the roadrace spindle would be a fraction less than that

 

Not worth risking your life over 1 lbs

 

'Nuff said.

 

Pics after sandblast.

 

One more.
I ran a track day May '11, then came back and junked the L98 and started the LS2 swap which took till Dec '11. Then started body & paint in Feb '12 which is just completed. I say this to say that I don't have many miles on these spindles. But I was surprised to find out that I didn't have the right component for the application.
Sent them off, today for the upgrade to roadrace spindle. I'm confident that the Racecraft guys will give me a good product.

 

what's up with the horrible splatter weld in the bottom of the last pic and also visible in the 1st? Still, I see a single pass weld with little filler material and it's all thick pieces of steel welded together. Some sections have undercutting, others had what looks likie porosity that you blasted away.

 

Splatter is me. Cody gave me two options on the sway bar end link - cut gusset and reinforce, or move attach pont on a-arm. I know it's ugly.

 

I can tell you this, I was one of the first people that bought the drop spindles for the rack and pinion, when I ordered them from Matt, I told them it was for a pro street car with a big block, order the K-member at the same time, they sold me the road race version, in fact the picture they use of their website is a photo of mine because it is one of the first, so they knew they were selling me this for the street. My spindles are not braced like the ones in the picture.

I can tell you, I am going to check them right now, if their is a crack on those spindles, or if I get hurt or the car get damaged, the first person I am talking to is my Corporate Lawyer and have them deal with this issue.

You would figure with the large amout of law suits, companies would build products that stand up, I know on their website when these ffirst came out there was no warning it was for drag racing only.
Also now that they know there is a problem, they now have an Obligation to inform their clients that purchased these spindles that they could have a problem. This is bullshit.

 

I fully agree

 

Got the roadrace spindles back today. Definitely xtra support around ball-joint and thicker gusset.

Miscommunication is not indicative of product quality.

What I mean is that miscommunication is common and easy to understand among human beings. I found out that I was at risk because I was sold the wrong part for the intended application, and did not know it for a while. I had no problems, unlike the OP - but benefited from his exposure of the problem. The new part is very sturdy, and I'm sure it will perform well - product quality is great. It's unfortunate that those who come behind don't have the option of this part (I paid the upgrade cost). I know that there are those who will not trust because of the miscommunication - they're well within their right to feel that way.
I feel fortunate to have not had a problem, fixed the problem, and have the right part for the application. Would have been better to be at this point the first time around, but hey, the issue is that I am at this point. Pics are not different than already posted, but here they are.

 

And some more.

 

All the extra gussets do little good if the welds are poor.

Hope you never have a failure with this product.

 

that's great that the ball joint has extra gussets, but I dont see anything that addresses the area where mine failed

 

Yes this is all a bit strange. Racecraft comes on here guns blazing about how nobody ordered the correct part. There is some confusion between buyer and seller on what they think they are ordering.

While all along, the actual road race version doesn't even address the failure point.

I would be curious to hear why they think the problem has been solved?

 

Agree, I'm not an engineer, but I would think that ball-joint stress and strut attachment could be inter-related, and it could show up in either.
Not sure why welds failed, there. Not sure what/how to measure stress levels. Even though the gusset for the tie-rod is greatly upgraded, I don't think there's a great deal of stress, there - my guess.

 

When I talked with Corey about the end-link/gusset hitting, he said that the gusset added significant strength to the piece. But that original gusset was thin, and I easily cut it with a dremmel cutting wheel. Don't know why he gave me that option at that point in time, and when they started discovering new info after customers had purchased. If that steering arm has any flex/movement, it would stress the weld at the strut attach point.

 

It's not clear to me what the situation is now. Will they sell the drop spindle and do the up-grade if you ask/pay for it or are they not doing at all any more?

 

It seems clear to me that they are no longer interested in selling the upgrade. They seem to be doing it for existing customers to try to help them out.

Either way, I cannot see how anybody would want to buy these after this. They haven't addressed the issue with the upgrades.