One thing I'm getting sick of is the continuous reference to one individuals experience of swapping to TPI from TBI. I would suggest taking this info with a grain of salt. The gains mentioned nothing about the fact that the TPI probably had the "ARAP" chip, if not the stock TPI ship has a way more agressive timing table, period. Agressive timing makes tourque. The TBI stock chip has an extremly passive timing table. From my own tuning experience a stock TBI can be increased 6 - 12 degrees at various points. I have looked at both TPI and TBI stock chips in great detail, so my final thoughts are simply that the stock TPI chip pushes the motor way harder than the TBI chip does. Those comparison numbers would be relivent if both motors were tuned to near perfection.

And please don't reply saying something like: "TPI needs more timing to run right because of the air paterns in the intake." because thats not where I was making my comparisons.

 

Either way, TBI or TPI, you'll love your car, and you'll be able to make it faster. But you gotta ask yourself how fast you wanna go. If you just want something w/ a little street presence, then TBI w/ a few mods is more than adequate....but if you're like most of us, you'll get bitten by the bug and wanna go faster and faster and faster. I bought an '89 TBI camaro a year and a half back thinking "this will be good enough, I dont wanna do all that much to it" Well eventually I wanted more....so I swapped out my 305 for a 350 crate motor, and swapped my TBI setup for TPI setup, put a posi/gear in place of the peg-legger and 2.72 gear. All that PITA work and the loads of money....it would have been easier if i had just bought an L98 car in the first place....i suggest you do the same. Not saying TBI isn't good enough, or can't be made fast....but why not spit out the extra little bit of money and go ahead and get an L98?

 

True





First off, I find those numbers very hard to believe, especially the torque. Even if they're "total" #s. I really think that Chevy would have used TPI on their trucks if this was the case, considering truck engines are aimed toward torque. I think the TBI or computer the guy had on there before he did the swap was f*** up. Even after the guy's dad did an LT! cam swap he was only running 14.91? My friend's 92 RS LO3 runs consistent 14.7s on street tires with a 5-speed. And that's in the 90+ degree temperature of Missouri. He has done nothing to the engine other than a cam and the edelbrock TBI manifold. He has a MSD ignition setup, underdrive pulley, open element, and cat back exhaust.
Do a search on these boards, and you will see that this guy's dad isn't the only one who has swapped to tpi, and you will find that the few others who did had minimal gains and will tell you that the time and money spent on the tpi and swap would have been much better spent elsewhere.
As far as powerband goes, I spent $260 on a Holley 670 TBI and $40 for an MSD coil. I can pull over 5,500rpm with the stock manifold. Try to get a TPI to do that for $300
Anyways, I'm not going to say that I'm bashing TPI or not. I really don't care. In my opinion, both injection types are under par. TPI just takes to much money and time to get breathing, and the TBI was put on a less then stellar engine with weak heads,cam, and intake.
I would have to agree with ir0cz. Unless you are planning on swapping motors anyways, go with an L98

 

Ok one question... If someone need to find a camaro in very good condition, to latter put a better engine on it, is not better to buy the one with the less Hp... as is more difficult that a person with a lowly 305 (my engine) stress the chassis, the transmission and the rearend?

Wich is more commond to find a very stock 305 tbi or a 350 tpi in very good condition?

Im Asking couse I will need to sell my car as I will move to europe this December, I will like to buy latter another one. As a project hight hp car (Not a drag car, simply a car that handles very well and has a good hp/weight ratio)

Thanks.

Im asking here as I see that there is very good knoweladge about boths 305 and the 350 tpi.

Also anyone know wich members have this cars in europe (there is any way to find out) so I could ask how they do about the gas price, regulations, etc.

 

Hes right as far as a swap to TPI not being worth it. After I put in my 350, i kept TBI for a while and just swapped to TPI about 3 months ago. It runs harder and I probably picked up .2 (no traction) in the quarter....but i spent $800 on parts alone. If a guy has $800 to spend, then they better gain well over .2. I could have bought a cam, torque converter, and some drag radials for $800 and picked up a full second, and then go to an LT1 intake later on.
As far as the guy's dad picking up 17HP and 40TQ....it could be true. There's another guy on here that swapped to TPI on his 305 and he picked up like 15HP and 40TQ. That sounds more reasonable than 70TQ....i'd be willing to believe I picked up 40 lb/ft of torque after my swap....i just can't get it all to the ground now....haha.

 

You're more likely to find a good stock TBI car simply because most thirdgens are TBI. But I'd still go w/ a TPI car, even if you want to put a better motor in it later on. Here's why...

1.The rear end.....350 cars have posi and decent gears.....TBI cars....i dunno bout all, but most are peg-leggers....and most are 2.72 gears. it'll cost you much $$$ to put in posi/gear. I've been through this...it was a pain.
2. Fuel pump....if the "better motor" you eventually put in is anything other than TBI or carb, you'll need a high PSI pump....like a TPI pump. And swapping fuel pumps is no fun.
3. Tires/wheels. If you put in a motor w/ some power, the TBI 215/60/15 tires wont hook at all. But if you get an IROC/Z28...then they come w/ 245/50/16 tires. Not a big deal if you plan on switching wheels anyways...
4.wiring harness. if you go w/ any kind of fuel injection other than TBI (LT1, stealthram, TPI) the TPI harness will work I believe. If you have a TBI motor, you'll have to swap out the harness whenever you put your new motor in...unless of course you go carb.
5. Cooling fan....TPI cars come w/ dual fans......TBI cars come w/ single fans. So if you put in a motor that puts out some serious heat....dual fans are nice to have. Not a big deal....but everything you have to swap out is more $$ you have to spend.
5.Speedo...not important at all, but I hate having a wimpy *** 115 MPH TBI cluster...haha.

 

just go to carb and you don't have to worry about either one.
I am sick of reading all of this...i have the tbi and have had no problems with it....

 

Nobody has had any problem w/ TBI....we're not debating over which is better.....92BLACK asked which car would be better to get if he were planning on swapping in a better motor eventually anyways. You're right, carb would be simple....but still, if he started out w/ a TBI car and swapped to carb, he'd still have to put in a posi and gear, cooling fan, etc. But if he started w/ a TPI car, all he'd have to do is buy everything to make the carb work (carb, intake, dist. AFPR, etc.), then he could sell his TPI setup for more than he paid for all the carb parts.

 

Ok, the only way to decide this... WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOUR GOING TO WANT TO GET OUT OF THE CAR IN THE LONG RUN.

1. Do you just want to get a thirdgen to drive and leave it at that?
2. Or do you want a thirdgen to eventually modify it for great speed, power, and economy?

If your answer is #1, then go with TBI. Case closed.

If your answer is #2, theres no question that you should go with TPI. It is a know fact that TBI does not, has not, and never will make as much power as a TPI... stock for stock, mods for mods... doesent matter.

If you get a TBI car, youll mod it... then you hit the infamous "wall" where you have squeezed every last bit of "power" out of it. At that point, youll need to make a decision: Do I want to stay at this point, or do I want more? If you want to stay at that point, then buying a TBI car was the right move. Your done. Now enjoy your thirdgen and dont think twice.

BUT... if you NEED more power, like most do, youll have to swap to TPI, or go carb. At which point, youll realize that it would have been cheaper to buy a TPI car in the first place, that which bypasses all the previous questions. TPI has a great potential to make as much power as you could ever want in a street car. Unfortunatley, TBI doesent. T

he numbers are there to prove it. Numbers are fact, BS isnt.

 

like i said

 

these cars dont weigh 3000 lbs stock...

 

Ok, so the cars weigh 3000 - 3300 lbs, big deal. My TBI motor has close to 400 ponies (no dyno just a guess) but if I were to through a stock TPI setup on for induction, there is no question I would lose top end power. Again no real dyno numbers, but dyno software says my motor peaks at 5700rpm, TPI (without porting and short fat runners) dies hard after 5000rpm.

Come on guys all chevy's rock, its the Fords we should be calling down!

 

I just can't help but laugh when the TPI people come into the TBI board and bash over and over again.
I'm tired of it. Just do what you want to do.
Enough of the bashing already.
This is getting very old.

 

I will say if you can find a TPI 350 car for sale, and also a TBI 350 car, all things being similar on the cars, if the TPI car isn't more than say $800 more, go with TPI. THis entire post I have just merely tried to say that the TBI will perform pretty good. But its to bad that some TPI guys had to turn it into an induction debate, thus tying to give TBI the label "its really good, ... for your moms car", and TPI the label " Unlimated power potentail monster".

 

Snow dog,

Just wondering, what rpm do you shift will racing?

 

Who says I race?
I never have been on the track and am dying to dyno the car, and the last opportunity I had to go... I had to work that night.
I may just wind up paying the extra $$ just to see what it pulls.
I have done some manual shifting with the Auto... Pulls hard to around 5000.... There might be a little more to it, might push it further on the dyno.
I like it.
The car isn't that great on gas, but it IS my daily driver and I'm very happy with it. It really needs higher octane than 91 to run optimally.
Every chance I get to go to dyno the thing, something comes up. I will just go and pay the extra $$.
The rear end is still making noise and I need to fix that. It might be in need of being rebuilt. I may go with posi and 3.42's then. It is still 2.73 open, but I have NO complaints... she moves.

 

Please get some real numbers before spreading BS all over the place.

As for TBI bashing, Im not bashing at all. If you read my thread, youll notice that it makes perfect sense, and was not meant to bash anything. Im just giving "Iwantanfbody" all the facts that he will need when deciding to buy an fbody.

 

I've not seen a single person bash TBI in this thread. Nobody has said a single bad thing Just because some guys say that it would be better to go w/ the TPI car then that's TBI bashing? I dont think so. We're telling this guy that for HIS wants and needs, he'd be better off getting a TPI car.....that does not mean that we dont think TBI isn't good enough or that we are bashing it. TBI just isn't whats best for him.

 

Bash bash bash....

Anyway say what you want to say. I'm out of this thread.

 

This puzzles me. This guy thinks that because we prefer one that we're bashing the other? So if i say that sausage tastes better than pepperoni then i'm bashing pepperoni? Or if I say I like green grapes better than purple grapes then i'm bashing purple grapes? common man, quit being over sensative. Nobody here has bashed anything in any kind of way what so ever. Look through the archives at some of the "TBI vs. TPI" threads and be reminded what bashing really is. Anyway....guys dont let me get you all off subject.

 

TBI sucks...

 

 

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHAAAA
LOL
HEHEHEHEHEHEHHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHHEEHHEHEHEHEHEHEHE

and just so i dont "hurt anybody's feelings" my laughter in no way means that I agree w/ the above statement

 

can't we all just get along...?

 

:nono:

 

those numbers are pretty high. i remember a little bit over a year ago a person on camaroz28.com put a stock TPI system with a stock TPI chip on his LO3. he gained about 12 HP (give or take a few ponies) and 47 foot pounds of torque(give or take a few). the torque number is the one that really jumps up when you have TPI.

 

Alright son heres some numbers, I weigh 190 lbs, I bench 325 lbs, so I would like to have you tell me I'm full of B.S. to my face .... if it were only possible. Now my quartre mile time of 14.17, when corrected for altitude is 13.44. Again my truck is 4200 lbs. Punch that in any online HP calc and you get over 400 ponies. I think your just bitter cause my truck would stomp your car, and all your buddies cars!

 

talk about tech information, besides thats only 1.7 times your body weight

yeah i worked it out.........

 

My '92 RS weighed in at 3953 with out my @$$ in it. T-Top vehicles were the heaviest, wich is what I have. Hard tops were the ones that weighed 3300ish.

 

Since the 350 engine swap and my mods I run 13.78's with my 350TBI vehicle. If you count the price of my engine($650)in with what all I have done, it was less than $2000. 13.78 is what my times were with a 5.09 light & 2.1 60ft on stock 16x8 rims with Goodyear Eagle HP tires. Now if I was to correct my times, I'm sure that living in the mountainous area of PA would be High 12's or low 13's. So ANYONE that says a TBI can't be quick is full of HORSE MANURE!:nono: Oh, and Low1500c, do you drive 22mi to work and back everyday? ? I do on 93octane pump gas, and still only fill up once a week.

 

What would you do ? Bench press him?

:sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol: :sillylol:

 

This battle of whits is just too fun to pass up, but I have to. I would like to say one thing though,

I believe some TPI drivers think there vehicles are simply superior, so when a TBI comes along that can toast em' they get scared and get all defensive. Hows that for an observation. Make sure you TPI guys put some more of those nice little smiles in your replys, they suit you quite well.

RScamaroGuy,

SO why does it say between 3000 and 3300 lbs in this sites tech area for the cars weight then. I'm just talking sticker weight. And what are you getting at talking about driving distance. I will assume that you mean I get very bad gas miliage. If this is the case I'll let you know that below 2200 rpm (at low loads) my motor burn less gas than a stock 350 tbi.

 

A. I am not a TPI driver

B. You observation is pretty silly considering that if you read this thread and others on this board its the TBI people that get defensive. I can do a ****load of quotes if you want.

C. Most thirdgens weigh ALOT more tha 3300 pounds , mine stock weighed in at 3750+ at a truck scale with a half tank of gas.

 

Come on Do you really think those scales are super accurate for such a light weight. Theres 3 right around my house and they differ by as much as 180lbs for my 4000+lb truck.

 

Considerig that it weighs in at about 3600+ change now after I have removed certian things over the years , they are close enough for me. And even if I granted you you 180 pounds that would still put me at almost 500 pounds over what you put us at.

 

But does it really matter!!

 

If it didnt then why did YOU bring it up?

 

Just saying that my truck @ 1/3 more weight than a car, nothing more.

 

Gross Vehicle Weight -> 4,146lbs. Now, are you calling GM a liar?? You are over-looking the fact that with A/C 16"rims, t-tops, ground effects, rear spoiler(wing), and all the accessories that GM made in 1992, cars will be substancially heavier. a base model hard top with no A/C might just very well be only 3300lbs, but not all of them. So, for the record.....
With my 207lb @$$ in my 4,146lbs car, I do weigh as much as your truck, and go just as fast(maybe faster with a calculation.)

I didn't want to get into that, I just wanted to point out that TBI can be a very strong motor that is definitely able to be daily driven to work and back and still smoke some cocky mustangs on the way. Low, for a truck 13's are real good, being that traction is even worse(If possible) than with our F-bodies.

 

They dont weigh each car individually to see how much it weighs and make individual stickers for each car. The GVW is the max amount of weight the vehicle can withstand in the front and back.

 

Ok... gimme a second to be scared............ ok Im done. I could care less how "big" you are. Now, before you go acting like a tough guy, just post some REAL numbers and shut me up. No HP Calculaters, no butt dyno, none of thet crap. Numbers talk, and BS walks.

Oh yeah... should I be immature and say that Im 6'1", 230? Fine... might as well.

 

Im 6'2" @195

 

oh yeah I'm 5'8 and 135lbs...

how's about that huhuhuhuhuhu...

 

your thirdgen doesnt wiegh 4146 pounds

 

Hey! Im 8'7" and 14347lbs. Who the **** cares? We'll never meet anyone we're talking to here.

 

WTF! a mod doing a nontech post.

 

Jebus...why don't you guys just whip 'em out and measure 'em already...so we can resume constructive discussion.

 

to be honest all these hp numbers by calculators dont mean squat to me. If you havnt dynoed it, dont shoot your mouth off. I hate how these things always seem to turn into pissing matches.

 

These posts are just to funny, you all get like a bunch of little kids that are saying my dad is better than your dad. So what if one guys loves TPI let him love it, if some guy thinks his half ton truck can outrun all the TPI boys let him, who the hell cares. These posts go on and on and on and then they get closed just so it can start somewhere else. How about the guy finds a decent F body car and buys its TPI, TBI who gives a damn, its his car his preference. Show some matturity in your posts, you are starting to sink as low as Battleboards.org, and that is truly really sad.

 

Nicely Said

As far as TBI guys being defensive all the time, we are. It's because we are the underdog. Our cars our slower stock than the TPI's. It's when the TBI guy mods his car enough and beats a TPI guy that the TPI guy gets defensive. But why should it matter? Sometimes a TBI will win, sometimes a TPI will win the race. And obviously, it's the owner's choice on which injection system he wants to use. Plusses and minuses to both which have been covered many times.

As far as numbers go, yes dynoes and track times are very important. You can't ripp a guy for correcting them however, as the altitude correction chart is there for a reason.

And you guys ripping c1500 for using wieght as a somewhat measurment are ignorant. The next time a Honda beats you in a race(TPI or TBI), don't even think about giving them the story about how his car only weighs 2,500lbs, and your's weighs 3,xxxlbs.