PhLaXuS

You can ignore the "stove pipe". Look at where it connects to the air breather snout. There is a flap inside which redirects hot/cool intake air. Just make certain that it is stuck in the closed position (blocking the "stove pipe" leading to the exhaust manifolds) when the engine is on and warm.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I checked the EGR valve and the diaphragm. It moved albeit i felt little things in the way. Like little pieces of rock or residue. But it still moved perfectly.
I unplugged the vacum lines going to it, and it did not do anything. The only other thing I can think of is getting it blocked off or replacing it. Its seems to be working so I am not sure if replacing would be worth it.

I did put in a HI-6s ignition in and I wired up the tach and power wires, with the tach lead having a resistor and the car runs much better. Still there is hesitation, and off idle stumble.

I am hearing bad things about the bosch O2 sensor, and I think I am going to get AC delco one.
It might help.

Here is the list of things I've replaced and still nothing happens.
ECM
TPS, IAC, CTS, O2
Fuel pump, filter, rebuilt the TBI with injectors and new FPR.
New ignition, distributor, cap rotor,wires, pluggs, coil.
Gutted the cat with totally open exhaust.
New battery.
Still problem!

With the new igntion the hesitation I had in closed loop is gone. The car runs much stronger, but still hesitant.

I say check your wires, and at least get new pigtails for your ignition.
The coil to distributor wires, and new power and tach lead pigtail.
That might help.

I also encourage you keep datalogging and I am sure somebody can help out.
Good luck.

Very progressive thread, I love it.

violentgod1

Well i took the car out for a ride yesterday after playing with the egr valve and it seemed a little better. It took a little more for the car to hesitate. It would still do it but it def need more gas. Is it possible that the egr is working but not fully how it is suppose to or is that just one of them things that either works or doesnt.

kevm14

The EGR system can fail in a variety of ways, including but not limited to:

*Valve stuck open, or closed
*Diaphram compromised, which means the diaphram probably can't open fully or at all as well as a small vacuum leak during EGR operation
* Solenoid failing to open or close

Too much EGR (stuck open) would probably cause a horrendous idle, especially when cold.
Too little EGR would cause pinging at part throttle but WOULD NOT effect idle or WOT.

I'd go for the O2 sensor next.

dctrumpet

iTrader: (10)

Please be sure to get GM/Ac Delco EGR valve and O2 sensors.

If you are in a hurry dont go thru GMpartsdirect for your EGR valve. You can go to O'rileys an order a Borg Warner. That is the only one (aftermarket) that is EXACT OE replacement. As for the O2 sensor you need to go to dealer or see if your local parts houses can order AC Delco

dctrumpet

iTrader: (10)

EGR Valve GM part # 17113496. This is the "new" part number. Our older number is no longer valid, but his is exact for your 305 tbi.

O2 sensor GM part # 25162693

violentgod1

by the sounds of it, it doesnt really sound like a bad egr valve cause these symptons. My idle isnt rough at all. Actually you can barely tell that my car is idling because it is so quiet. Sometimes i think it might have stalled. Also it felt like 1st gear was fine when i was driving. It seemed to get worse as i got higher in gears. 2nd was ok but when i gave it a lot of gas it would do it. 3rd gear it would take less gas to do it and so on. At least that is how it was riding yesterday.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Could you pass smog without EGR???
If yes, just put a plate over the egr and put the egr back on. That will tell you if thats the problem.
You can ask somebody to burn you chip without EGR included in the mix.
How is your fuel preassure???
I never checked mine, although I replaced everything.
Everyone keeps telling me that not all fuel pumps work good from the factory. To a certain extent I agree, but those were the same people who told me about sensors not working right before, and thats why I have two or three different sensors that all work.
I say, there is a much better chance for something to work better if its from factory than something that was on the car for so long.

So you can, for now, take stuff you replaced out of the equation and should be a step closer to the answer.

There is something that makes these TBI engines run funky. I am still not sure what, but there is something.

I belive that it might be in the wiring itself, but I could be wrong.
Usually a shop can test the spark, fuel and air. If they are all good, than something internally aint.
So, take it somewhere where they can test your car and see what they say.

I will do the same over the weekend, and I'll report back, to let you know.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Hey violentgod, you got something??? Anything new??

I had put in a HI-6S ignition in, and the car ran much better. However the lower RPM has some bogg and sometimes it stutters.
My normal ignition does not have the studder, but its much worse through the RPM and hesitates when cold.
It does not hesitate when cold if I have the HI-6s going.

So I am thinking there's gotta be something going on with the wiring.
I figured that it might be
1. The power wire thats with the tach wire might be grounding somewhere, or is chiped or scraped.
Does the power wire fire coil once and than the module takes over, or does it keep firing it all the time?
2. The other set of wires that goes from module to coil.
What do these do??

3. There might be an issue with the distributor grounding. I don't know how since I have a new distributor.

4.Low voltage and bad alternator.

Thats all I can think of.

I hope this helps.

sqzbox

Hey violentgod1, It is my experience in the past that, when you have popping thru the exaust but not constant with RPM the spark is traveling to a cylinder late or to the wrong cylinder when an exaust valve is open. I noticed that in your pic. of the vacuum hose you were refering to that your spark plug cables are intwined all around each other and between the cap terminals. This could be causing the spark to jump to the wrong cable and cause the popping and jerking that your talking about. 1st,you might try re-routing the cables so their not crossing over the cap on your dist. Pay the most attention to cly. #'s 5 and 7. Their most affected by spark jump because they are next to each other in the firing order. 2nd, check all your cables from top to bottom to make sure they haven't worn on anything between the cap and the plugs. 3rd, check your dist. cap for cracks and look hard for any carbon tracking inside and out and check your rotor button for ANY carbon buildup. Make sure you have the correct rotor button in your dist. Some rotors have different lengths and that effects the distance the spark has to travel to get to the terminal contacts for each cylinder inside your cap just like the gap on your spark plugs. Also check your terminals inside for excesive corrosion, and out side (where the cables plug in to the cap) for crap inside the towers.
It really sounds like a spark jump/short/timing problem to me with the popping and jerking your talking about.

violentgod1

I just actually got another garage so im probably hop in and check the wires, cap and rotor like all have said. Its just real bitter out right now and been kind of crazy with this being my finals week for the quarter. I should be out there shortly though.

So your still troubleshooting your car hellraiser?

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

For about 8 months now!

I got it to run consistently and somewhat hang witha 396 (for about 5 secs.) . Its good in the upper RPM's but in the lower it has no go. If I am past 5mph the car runs great, except when I slow down to 20mph and give it gas, it acts as if its in 3rd.

I did check my wires, and I moved them, but did not drive the car yet. So I'll let you know whats up.

I am glad you are troubleshooting too.

So let me know if something comes up, and I'll defenetly let you know if anything comes accross this silly situation.

Laters.

PhLaXuS

AAAHHH!!!!

I think you gave me your engine problem. My car just started doing the same thing. I'm convinced it's all ignition-related. Check this post from JPrevost on 07-04-2005 in the thread: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=302362

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Here is the deal.
Ignition is what I think also.
There are few signs that make me think this.

1st. Sometimes when I take off, and put the cap and rotor back on, the car would work flawlessly for about 5mins. Than it goes back to the gutter.
2nd. I put in the HI-6s and the tach jumps, but the car runs much better.
It idles aroun 600, but has a tendency to drop to almost 500. Its eery quiet when that happens.
Also, with my original ignition the car would hesitate when warming up, and I am driving it.
With hi-6s it does not!

3rd. With HI-6s off idle response boggs down sometimes, and than goes.
Without it, it does not bog, but its much slower.

Maybe fuel, but I doubt it.
How can you clogg the lines past the filter???

Whats the best way to clean fuel lines.

PhLaXuS

I tweaked with my distributor timing today for a bit and I think I know what's going on. I totally forgot to set the timing when I replaced my distributor a little while ago. I popped it in by sight and got it right on, but I don't think the old one was set correctly. The engine SUCKED from time to time, but on occassion, it would get nice & strong for a few miles. I always run 93 octane and keep the coolant ~ 190* or so. I moved the distributor base timing today, but went the wrong way (I accidentally advanced it when I meant to retard it) and saw a correlation: I think the base timing was so far advanced that the ECM was retarding it WAY back. The car was dying at idle every few seconds if it was in gear with the brake on (auto tranny). If I turned the AC on, it IMMEDIATELY died -- too much load @ idle. The ECM retarded the timing into killing the engine. I drove around like this for ~10 miles under various conditions to check things out. I stopped and disconnected the EST wire. The car ran SO much better and also would no longer die at idle. So...I retarded the timing a lot, reconnected the EST wire, cleared the ECM and took her out. Much, much better. I wanted to put a light on it, but apparently none of the auto stores around me rent timing lights anymore and I don't have the cash to drop on one at the moment. I'm moving in two weeks.

So...check your base timing. Could also help to set a higher than zero base timing figure in the chip, but distributor timing would eb the better way to go.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I set my engine at 0 (I have a gun ). The car would start kinda hard. Once I advanced the car was much more responsive, but the idle was kinda weird. So, I am not sure what to do.
Maybe since I put my crane box in I can now put it back to 0 and see if its any better.

I had the whole ignition system checked by mechanics and they told me that everything was up to spec. Which leads me to think of a short somewhere???


WHERE???? OH WHERE????

PhLaXuS

I took a few hours yesterday and checked every wire in the ECM harness. I have test leads I've made with needles soldered to a few feet of 16 AWG wire. I puled the ECM and got the pinouts of the connectors. I first clamped my meter to the battery (-) and checked every wire in the harness for shorts to ground. I then individually checked each wire from the ECM harness to the sensors themselves. A Few hot tests were run where I keyed on and took voltage measurements from the harness to ground. If you can't find the problem anywhere else, this may be a good place to check. At least now I know I have no shorts/broken wires.

And 0* should be about perfect. Maybe your balancer is a bit off? You could try setting the timing by ear and seeing if that helps. If nothing else, disconnect the EST wire and see if it runs any better (and by "better" I mean more consistently, not better performance).

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I have a volt meter but I am just to scared that I will get something messed up. I heard too many horror stories.

Man I don't know what to do, everything on my motor is new but the bottom end! Its killing me.
When I shift into reverse it drops to under 500rpms and than it gets up. Sometimes it dies.
Its pretty violent when it goes in gear droping low than IAC opens and the car idles up.

I guess if IAC was opening there has to be a reason. A vac leak usually does that (from what I am getting here). However, at idle my vacum is fine!
Maybe its time to get a new manifold!??
When I had the vacum tested the motor had none in gear! or very low vac. in gear. I am not exactly sure why??

Would a vac. leak cause this???

How does a vac. leak act in the higher RPM's???

Man, I really miss my LO3 power ( really, off idle performance is crap).

I used to able to lift the front end really good with an LO3. I am serious. Not anymore!

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I CANT DO A BURNOUT!

PhLaXuS

I removed the ECM first and simply did resistance and voltage measurements on the ECM harness itself. If you don't have the pinouts/schematics, send me a PM with an E-Mail address and I'll get them over to ya.

Offhand, I can't think of any sensors on the engine which would be hurt by testing through the harness.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Played with the timing today and first set it to 2 advanced (on the balancer). The car ran so slow and like crap that a trip around the block was horrendous.
So I advanced it by ear, and still set it a bit lower than I should, and the car runs much better.
I think that the timing might be off the balancer but the car runs much better. Still hesitating, but in a much less of an RPM range.

I have the IAC set pretty high to keep the car runing decent, and when its set properly it opens up all the way in gear.
How does that sound to you guys?

It sounds like a vacum leak to me, but I could not find one!

kevm14

If the IAC is open a lot, then that doesn't suggest vacuum leaks. If you had a nasty leak, the IAC would be nearly or all the way closed, trying to keep the idle down.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

What makes the idle low, even though I adjusted the screw pretty dang out.
My idle is around 600, but the car feels dead silent. It used to idle nice at around 650 but even adjusted all the way up it idles the same. When its adjusted the IAC does not open up all the way.

Advancing the timing is the only thing I felt that helps.

Got a new muffler today, and it helped the car a lot. What do ya know!

violentgod1

did it fix your problem or did it just help ya out a decent amount. I have to replace my muffler regardless cause of a couple pinholes here and there. I think it will be going to the shop in the next week or so if all works out well.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I had totally open exhaust and once I put in the muffler the car just worked tons better. I am not sure that this is the solution, but it did help. Like when you put in new headers the car just fells like its pulling healthy.
I have a horrible collector leak on my pacessetters and that might be a culprit. I will see what I can do with that.

Did you try setting up your timing??? I did it by ear, although I have the gun. The car works way better now.
My balancer has shifted (I am most certain abou that) since at 0 degrees the car works very retarded (pun intended). Its about 8 advanced now and it works a lot better.

Since you are backfiring and jerking, it leads me to belive that your either are not getting fuel constantly, or something is not firing. I would check for both.
On mine, I did and everything was fine! Go figure.

PhLaXuS

I had to set mine by ear because my tab is missing. I'm gonna try retarding it just slightly more and see how that goes because it sounds like EST retard is still occurring every now & then. This whole last week -- no code 43 (Knock/EST Error) and no dying at lights.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Ya, I set mine by ear, and the car works much better. I get no codes what so ever, so I am starting to think that something is out of whack and doing my car good!
I tried to seal my whole exhaust (big leak on pass side header collector). Its a whole mess and I am getting it replaced. For the time being I quick steeled the crap out of it, and we'll see what happens!


What would cause low idle, even though the idle screw is adjusted pretty high out???

sqzbox

Retarded timing, or vacuum leak.

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I guess I am investing in a new intake. Why not change it while i am opening the engine!

I'll re-do my intake and see if thats the problem.

If not, I am going to kill... really!

violentgod1

I dont know how to do timing or where to even start. I dont have a light either. It had to be a problem that just occured over night though. It didnt gradually get worse as i owned the car longer. One day it drove fine and the next day it drove like ***. I know that it needs a new exhaust (im alright with that ) but as far as what is causing the problem who knows.

To check the timing by ear all i have to do is loosen the distributor hold down bolt and turn the dizzy? Is that somewhat along the lines of correct. I dont know how my timing would be alright one day and then less than 24 hours later its that bad. I still gotta check the wires and what not still. Its gettin a little nicer out now though so ill be out shortly doin that.

If and when i take my car to the shop ill be sure to let you know what they think is the problem to the this whole hastle of the tbi. Cars

violentgod1

Well i took the car out for a ride yesterday for about half an hour and it seems everytime i take it out it gets better and better. Its still doing but not as much as last time and def not as bad as it was at its worst. I mean i dont imagine the problem is going to fix it self but i got a little extra money in the bank now and im gonna start callin a couple places.

It also rode a little different this time. The car was doing it like there was a certain point where it wouldnt accelerate anymore. Almost like it hit its cutoff point to accelerate anymore and would almost kickback and do it again until i let off the gas and accelerated a little slower. Almost like it just wasnt getting enough of something to go. The jerking def isnt as bad either. Its almost bearable to have it do it. I dont want it to though. Is there anything that would stop my car from accelerating at a certain point and rpms. It will go when i go fine when i acclereate a little slower but i can def go faster than before. Its still after warm up also. I can floor it while its still cold and not have a problem. Once it get to about 210 degrees it start to cause trouble.

violentgod1

well this might seem odd to all but my car isnt doing it anymore. I have taken the car out for rides over 30 minutes each time and ever floored i get no hesitation. All the things i have replaced are

air filter
water pump
ignition coil + wire
a couple vacuum lines
t-stat
fuel filter

Not a lot i dont think. Im not sure what the problem was. Is it possible that the car had bad gas when it started to circulate and it just worse? Or another thing i was thinking is if there was certain point or level that gas tank was filled to where it just wasnt pumping enough. Its at about half tank now. I have no idea if that would cause the problem or not though. Maybe the pump is working better with a little less gas in the tank. Either way im am very happy that the car is working right and appreciate all the help. Hows things going with you hellraiser?

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

Same bro. I took it to a shop and they tested everything. it seems as if I have just enough vacum in park, but when in idle the vacum is at 1 or 2 hg.
I am thinking I need to replace the intake manifold gasket. Or it coulb possibly be the brake booster.
Other than that, i Replaced everything, so I hope that will solve the problem!