Well, I've been reading the Vortec 383 TBI thread for several days now. One of the posts mentioned the desire to see a successful 383 swap in a TBI Camaro. Or at least that's what I understood. TBI-Max was successful with his swap in a 95 Suburban. Since I read that, I've decided to post up. I've got a 383 in the making but unlike TBI-Max's engine, this one is going to be a roller engine. I'm using a block with casting #14093638 and it's a two bolt main. Also, I will be using aluminum vortec cylinder heads with 190cc runners, 64cc chambers, 2.02" intake valves and 1.6" on the exhaust. Or maybe it's 1.7". I can't quite recall. They have been set up to take up to .525" lift. More than enough for me because I won't be using a cam with more than .500 lift. The crank is by Eagle with 5.7 I-beam roads, KB135 pistons with a -18cc dish. I believe the dish should leave me with approximately a 9.7:1 compression ratio. The entire rotating assembly(including the balancer and flexplate)is at the machine shop now being balanced. That's where I am up to this point. I'll post some pics of the block and cylinder heads once I get some taken. All the mods to my Camaro are in my sig. The only differences now are 68# injectors @15psi and an 1800 stall converter instead of a 2800 stall. I couldn't stand that high of a stall. So once the engine is ready, we just have to remove Vortec 350, insert 383. Sounds simple enough. Once I get more info I'll post up.

 

A few things I forgot to mention. I still haven't decided which cam I'm going to use. And I haven't decided if I want to use full roller rockers, roller tipped rockers or just the stamped steel ones. I've heard that the full rollers are noisy and may cause problems with the knock sensor but I don't know if that's true. And on the cam, I want to keep the torque and horsepower lower in the power band. This is a street car and I like the torque down low off idle. I doubt I'll see more than 4K rpm's if even that. I'm sure some of you guys are using full roller rockers. Are you having any problems as far as them being noiser? And any suggestions on a roller cam for a TBI 383? I was thinking of either the XR258HR or the XR264HR from CompCams. But if you guys out there have other suggestions I would love to hear them. I'd like to weigh as many options as possible so I can make a better decision.

Thanks,

Gene

 

I took pics of the block and the cylinder heads but it won't allow me to upload them. The files are to big. Anyway, I'm still trying to figure out which cam to use for this combo. Has anyone out there had any experience with a set up similar to the one I plan on using and what cam did you use?

 

you're gonna need more PSI than that. I would say probably 20 psi at least through the 68's. SOunds like you have a pretty good handle on things. PICS!!! reduce image size.
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comp 07-500-8, grind LT1 XR258HR-12
206/212 dur @ .050, .480 .488 w/ 1.5 ratio arms, 112 LSA
hyd. roller

 

I know I'm probably going to need at least 22. My regulator is adjustable and I've got a stiffer spring so I'll just need to swap it in and turn the screw. I'll figure out how to reduce the image size. I've never posted pics before. By the way, the block is already on a stand and the parts are being test fit. I'll get some pics of that tomorrow and post them up as soon as I can. Thanks for the reply. How do you like your cam by the way?

Gene

 

Either of those cams will put your power band high enough to warrant a 5500 rpm + shift point. Don't get too hung up on bottom end torque, all you'll do is make a car that loves to spin and really isn't all that fast as the power band is too short. The L98 tpi cars are a perfect example of that, they have tons of bottom end torque but the power band drops off so fast that the cars really aren't all that fast.

You need to aim for a broad flat torque curve for a street car, your combo with a 214/224 cam would make peak power at around 5,000 rpm, need shifted at 5500 and make enough torque to spin street tires up to 60 mph even with some mild 3.23 gears. That cam would be as far as I would go with a stock converter.

As for fuel delivery, you'll need mid 20's with the 68 lb/hr injectors or step up to bigger injectors.

 

Thanks for the reply and the advice. So you think I could go a bit bigger on the cam? Something more like the XR269HR which is 218/224@.050 and .495/.503 lift? I've got an 1800-2200 converter and my engine builder said it would match nicely with that cam or something similar to it. I might have to step up to the larger injectors. The highest my regulator spring will go is 28psi but hopefully that will be enough with the 68lb. injectors. If not, I'll just spring for some 75# or some 90# injectors. Thanks again.

Gene

 

Or, there's also the 266hr-14 also from CompCam. 210/220@.050 and .500/.510 lift with a 114LSA. I know the wider LSA will yield more vacuum hence a bit easier to tune. Still not sure yet. These cams don't seem to be much different as far as specs are concerned.

Gene

 

That cam would work well, it'll idle like stock in a 383. Cam selection will depend greatly on what you want to do with the motor. If you like big smoky burnouts and being able to snap the tires loose anwhere below 45 mph then a smaller cam would be better. If you want ultimate performance and want a good ET in the 1/4 then look for something a little bigger that will kill just enough torque to get you out of the hole and make more power throughout the curve.

Just as an example of what to expect from your combo. I just got done tuning my buddies 355, it has dart platinum heads, a hot cam, 9.5-1 compression and a stealth ram for induction. Even with the hot cam in his smaller motor the car will not hook anywhere in first gear and will leave a good 15' of rubber into second. This motor will get him into the mid 12's easy, your motor with the added cubes and smaller cam would be even worse. If you get this setup correctly and get it to hook you could be looking at a low 12 second combo.

 

Well, I would like the car to have a good take off without spinning tires. So I could even consider something like the 276HR-14 which is 220/230@.050 and .510/.510 lift? I don't want to go to radical where I'll kill my low end but radical enough for a 383 so I'll have good overall performance as you mentioned. This car was my daily driver up until early 2003 and I got it brand new in June of 88. It's not going to be raced, only driven on the street. Thanks a bunch for the reply and advice. That helps me narrow it down to 5. The ZZ9 from TPIS, the XR264HR, the XR269HR, the 266HR-14, or the 276HR-14.

Gene

 

I forgot to ask, what rear gears is your buddy using on that car with the 355?

Gene

 

Okay, I finally figured out how to reduce the image sizes. This is my second attempt at uploading a few photos. Here goes nothing. Success!! I'll post a few more.

 

Here are a couple more of the block and one of the cylinder heads.

 

Here's one more of the cylinder heads and one of the crank being test fit into the block.

 

And two more of the crank and the block. By the way, I've narrowed the cam choices down to two cams. The 266hr-14 or the 276hr-14 from compcams.

Gene

 

glad you have been following my thread.. yea, i love the stroker... but im in the process of finishing the tune etc... but next summer im going to be using a Lutani Marine roller cam... or better yet my custom grind from Crower cam...


ohh yea, if i was to do it again, ill loose the vortec heads for sure, and get something that flows tons more... but you live and learn... just thought i would help you out... heck who knows... what ill do with the vortec performance heads... ill prob keep them for some time, or sell them.

but the roller is coming in the summer, with a tune tweak, as ill have the .bin of my tune, and ill be using the Ostrich.. no biggeie..

 

im not a cam expert... but from what i understand...

i dont know how heavy that car is, but if its light, then cam #1 will spin the tires and go no where.. that cam would be pure TQ... the cam#2 seems like a better choice for a light vehicle.. that way you have more mid-upper power... vs most of the power down low like cam#1... cam#1 would be suited for a heavier vehicle..

 

Are you going to convert your block to a roller or are you going to use a different block? I've read that your block has the provisions for it but just didn't get the hardware. I'm not sure on that though. The Ostrich makes life so much easier when tuning. I'd recommend it to anyone. If you're not using it already I think you'll like it. As far as weight, my Camaro is not the lightest thirdgen around. It's got A/C, stereo system, steering brace, strut tower brace...the works. I don't want to spin the tires off the line, I just want a good "whip my head back" take off and good overall performance. I also don't need to spin it past 5500 or even 5000. Does anyone have any idea what the rpm range would be for the compcam 276hr-14(220/230 duration @.050 and .510/.510 lift)on a 383? I'm just wondering how far down the range would shift for a 383 since the numbers are based on a 350.

Gene

 

im keeping my same block, its already setup for a roller, i just have to buy the kit for 214 $ then pick any roller cam from 87+... its very easy to convert. as all the work is already done...

its 6 steps take a read
thats all, i can do it under 500$ ill prob end up with a custom grind..

i cant tell you too much on the cam stuff, but i would think your 1st cam of 212/220 be too much for that light car...

 

When you say to much you mean it's to small so it'll produce to much torque to low in the powerband?

 

yea too much being too small, for my heavy truck and engine 383 214/220 is the ideal cam for my usage.. as i want all possible power down low in the rpm up to 5k rpm or so.... goood for gobs of low end - mid power.. in a heavy vehicle as a mines 5800-6000 #s...

so i would think your cam being near that duration, will be too much for that light car weighing something under 3400#s i would think... you would just burn rubber without moving, or having to part throttle to get traction... better have some Caltracs or something..

but im still learning something about cams every day.. your LSA of 114 should make it idle like stock like Bmonte said.... it shouldnt have no lope at all... if you want lope, you need a lower lsa..

 

No. I don't want any lope. I like a smoothe idle. Okay, the 276hr-14 it is.

 

The 276 would be a better choice for performance, it would match your converter well and would go good with 3.42 gears (what my buddy runs).

I wouldn't ditch the vortecs so quick, Chevy HiPo did a under $1000 head shoot out and the vortecs were only outperformed by the dart platinums and performer RPM heads.....which both cost more than 1000 and only made a few HP more. Dollar for dollar they can't be beat.

You really need to get over your fear of your tach needle going past 5000 rpm it won't hurt I promise. Even stock style valvetrains will rev to 6200 or so before valve float becomes an issue. The 274 cam will want to be shifted at around 5600 to 5800 in your 383. The meat of your power band will between 2800 and 5500. Nice and fat,

 

you probably know this exist but thought someone might need it. It helped me figure out which cams i might want. really helpful tool.

http://www.compcams.com/Camquest/default.asp

it will give you hp,tq, and recommended stall and which retro parts or extra stuff needed. also compensates for different heads, induction etc.
worth checking out.

 

I definately agree. My stock head (swirl ports), choked edelbrock 3704 dual plane intake, zz4 cammed 350 liked running to 5,500 rpm before grabbing another gear.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=koWaPeAu3hg

 

Well, I don't mean to disappoint but I just don't desire to take it past 5K or even up to 5K. But I know I'll be able to if I feel like it. This car is my baby. I got it new when I was in high school. I'll be 36 in about 3 weeks. So I've had it a while. I just don't want to screw it up. I just want a strong engine that will smoke a slammed import with a coffee can sticking out the back on occasion. I'm a simple man. LOL. Oh, the guy that's building the engine said with the weight of the crank(he said it's lighter than a stock 350 crank)I'll have no problem spinning it to 6K. And I ordered the 276h-14 yesterday and it should be here by Thursday. At that point he's going to check rod length and all that stuff. But we'll see once I hopefully get it running. If it runs good I might get the urge to take it to 5K or even past it. LOL. Thank all you guys for your time and your replies. I'll keep the info coming as I get it.

Gene
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I forgot to ask but I don't know if I should ask this question here or in the General Tech forum. I want to use full roller rockers but I know I'm going to have issues with a taller centerbolt valve cover. Does anyone know of a full roller rocker that will fit under the stock height centerbolt valve covers whether it be steel or aluminum? Thanks again.

Gene

 

You'll race on the street.....but won't rev it past 5K because "it's your baby"...don't quite get the logic but to each his own.

 

When I said "smoke" I didn't mean race. I never said I raced on the street. I don't street race nor have I ever. I was just trying to explain I wanted something with good all around power and I think I'll be getting that with this engine whether I want to rev it to/past 5K or not.

 

I'm running Comp Pro mag 1.52's (steel) under stock GM center bolt valve covers. There was a little interference with the bracing & vent, which was easy to fix. The bracing was flattened a little with pliers, same with the vent.

RBob.

Edit: just wanted to add, the Comp Pro Mag rockers require a longer then stock stud. So if one goes with these it is also a good time to upgrade to 7/16" studs, along with the rockers to match.

 

The Comp Pro Mag 1.52's are full rollers or roller tipped? Also, Proform makes a centerbolt that's 1/4" taller than stock and you can unbolt the baffles from underneath for rocker clearance. So I might be able to use the rockers you're using with a set of these valve covers and remove the baffles or just get a set of stock ones( new $20 shipped on ebay)modify them a little like you did. I think I would be more comfortable using the stock ones because I know I won't hit the alternator power bolt with them. Just like you said, my engine builder said that it's going to require a longer stud. He said the only way to be sure was to put everything together and check the clearances. Thanks for the reply and the info.

Gene

 

Full rollers. I used part# 1304-16 rockers (NON-aligning) with guide plates and Crane #99157-16 studs. In the '113 heads the studs were a little long on the bottoms. Used a hardened washer between the head and guide plates to prevent the studs from bottoming.

To round it all out I also cut the guide plates apart, lined up the rockers with the valve stems, and welded the plates back together. Gotta' love hot-rodding.

If you use raised guide plates then the upper brace needs to be removed from the rocker cover (like I did). Flat plates shouldn't be an issue.

RBob.

 

Thanks a bunch for the info and the part number. Hopefully I'll be able to use the flat plates. The heads I'm using use the non-aligning rockers so hopefully I'll be able to set it up like yours and use the stock height valve cover. I got the cam in yesterday so I'll know more about any clearance issues within the next few days. I'll also be posting more pics as this thing gets pieced together. Thanks again for the info and the help.

Gene

 

Okay, the cam is in as well as the timing chain, rods and pistons. Everything turns freely with plenty of clearance. Here are a few pics of the short block before the last piston is put in.

 

Here are a few more and one of the final piston before installation. I said in the previous post that the pics were before the piston was installed but I think it was already installed in a couple of them.

 

Three more.

 

Now we're just waiting on a set of ARP head bolts to come in as well as some gaskets and a Moroso 6 quart oil pan for crank clearance.

 

I'm hoping it'll be ready by the end of this week but that's all going to depend on how fast the rest of the parts arrive.

 

looks good... get-r-done...

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i noticed they didn't deck the block... did they tell you what compression ratio it will run at?

 

With the heads and pistons I'm using the engine should have a CR of 9.7:1 without decking. We'll see what it actually is once it's all together. But I'm hoping it's between 9.5:1 and 10:1.

 

^ Very nice build so far galvarado, keep it coming....

 

Thanks! Got news today. The short block is just about done. The timing chain, timing cover, balancer and oil pan are on. I dropped the cylinder heads off during lunch today and the ARP head bolts should be in tomorrow. My builder said once he gets the bolts it'll only take him a couple of hours to get it all put together. I should be able to pick it up this week and see when I can get it installed. I'll get some pics of the finished engine tomorrow if it's ready.

Thanks,

Gene

 

The cylinder heads, studs and guideplates are done. The stock pushrod was a little to long so my builder had to order some that are just a bit shorter. We're using a new Eagle crank, caps screw rods and KB135 pistons. It's coming together nicely so far now we're just waiting on some pushrods and rocker arms. I've decided to use roller tipped rockers instead of the full rollers because I need to use a stock height valve cover. Here are a few more pics of the build which is almost complete.

 

Here are a few more.

 

I haven't got any pics of it but the engine is done. My builder wound up using the stock length(7.20")pushrods with some CompCam Pro Magnum roller tipped rockers. They cleared the valve springs nicely not to mention they fit under the stock centerbolt valve cover so I won't have any issues with my alternator. I'll be picking it up within the next few days so I'll put up a couple of pics of the finished product.

 

It's been a few days since I've posted anything but I finally got a chance to pick up the engine this past Sunday. The swap will commence either late this week or some time between Christmas and New Year. I've got some pics of the completed engine, the engine it's replacing and the vehicle it's going in. My builder used stock pushrods but I think I'm going to order a set of magnum pushrods and replace the stockers with those. I'm not sure yet and I'll get some pics posted this evening.

Gene
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I forgot to ask in my previous post, I was thinking of using the GM 30psi TBI regulator(#17113079) with 68lb. injectors. That would give me over 100lbs. for each injector. I was just wondering if anyone out there thinks this would be to much for this 383 build. As it is now, my adjustable regulator will go up to about 26-28psi so I'm not sure if going with the 30psi regulator will make any difference. If anyone has any suggestions/opinions I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Gene

 

I've decided to keep the stock pushrods and my adjustable regulator. I believe the 68lb. injectors with a little more pressure will be sufficient for my fueling needs. I'm going to start with 18psi which will give me roughly 83lbs./hr. per injector and I'll increase it as I tune it. I'll post a few pics in the next post.

Gene

 

Here's a pic of the car this 383 is going into. And a couple of pics of the Vortec 350 it's replacing.

 

Here's one of the aluminum vortec headed 383 roller all wrapped up. It just needed a bow. Also, a couple more with the engine in the car and a few of the accessories bolted on. There's still plenty of work to go though. It would probably be running already but as usual, I always run into some bumps. First, using the 168 tooth flywheel meant I had to change to the mini starter but I forgot about the bolts. The stock bolts were to long so I had go hunt down some shorter starter bolts for the mini starter. An even bigger bump. The Moroso 6 quart oil pan that's supposed to fit the 82-92 Camaro/Firebird didn't fit. It did fit but I don't have a stock y-pipe. I've got the Hooker 2055's with the 3" y-pipe. Well, the pan hits the y-pipe and there's no room to modify the y-pipe so the engine had to be pulled back out of the car in order to swap oil pans. Also, I ordered a new TV cable from my local GM dealer which turned out to be to short. I found one at O'Reilly's so we'll see if that one is the proper length. Hopefully it'll be running by the weekend.

 

And here are a couple of pics of the Vortec 350. It's got less than 3K miles on it. I haven't decided whether I want to sell it or set it aside for another project. Decisions, decisions.

Gene

 

Well, the TV cable from Oreilly's was to long. I'm going to take the cable I got from the dealer along with my original cable and maybe they can match one up. Is it possible for a TV cable to stretch over time? My original cable is 20 years old.