you must be looking at the stock numbers on thirdgen for that 255tq is out of the crank my car puts out 202 hp and 268 tq to the tires out of a 305 tbi

 

yeah my first love is Mopar's too I got a 1968 Dodge Charger myself. since B bodies are the best

 

68? Ehh. Its alright. I really like the ones from the 80s. SO gorgeous and So much power

 

Introducing, The Sarcasm Meter: A clear way to define just how sarcastic your statement is. Generally from 1-10, but if you're a smartass you can be like (10000)

Example:
68? Ehh. Its alright. I really like the ones from the 80s. SO gorgeous and So much power (1000)

Simply more effective and better looking imho


But on a more related, yet overall unrelated note in reference to the OP, @undercover- pics of your Charger?

 

he's very secretive of it.

 

its being resto'd thier are pictures in the nor cal section somewhere....post pics of your car thread or something. also my photobucket...undercover89tbi thier are photos too

 

She's beautiful.

I'm loving the high-ram intake, and I'm guessing that's a 440? What was the original powertrain?
I just hope you aren't going to do many body and frame mods- I love it when cars like that are so well preserved. You'd be hard-pressed to find a project like that on the east coast

And yes, I'm a Mopar lover as well. If only Dodge made a "performance" car in the 90's besides the stealth...

 

That would be the viper

 

....that fit my $3000 price limit lol

 

haha glad you found the pics....

I am not cutting wheel wells to put bigger tires in or anything. I am going to put a 6 point roll bar in it because I do plan on running at the drag strip and I do plan on running below 11.49. But the bar's can be taken back out permanently and without pulling carpet you'd never know they were there.

original drivetrain is 318 with 918 automatic 3 speed transmission

right now it has a stock 440, with cam, intake, carb, headers, iginition upgrade. with 3.91 gears it ran a 13.7 at 101.xx

the motor on the stand is a 496 stroker engine, with a fat mechanical flat tappet cam, 10.5 compression for pump gas w/ross forged pistons, 2 inch headers are going on it, performer rpm aluminum heads (those might be going away, since thier are now better option out there) I coped a build that had 593 horses to the flywheel, but they only had 8.5 to 1 compression why? i dunno. So I figure with the extra 2 points I'd be around 620 flywheel horsepower. Also have comp pro magnum rocker arms, and a bunch of other stuff. It'll be fun! Going to run a 3800 tight stall converter since I am mostly going to drive on the street! I am trying to get my camaro running where I want it then i am done with it for awhile and I can start piledriving more money into the dodge...

but now back to topic any questions PM me.

 

yes its worth messing with a 305tbi if you know what your doing i make 202 hp and 268 tq on a mustang dyno and all i have is a 4 inch open element air cleaner, 3 inch flowmaster system with hiflow cat i have a corvette servo 3.42 posi disk rearend that made a big difference a chip from tbi chips msd cap rotor coil wires acdelco plugs i run a 9.78 1/8 mile with my old 2.73 rearend gonna take it to the track again and redyno it it on a dyno jet

 

You're never going to get monster performance out of it, but the LO3 is a reliable motor that can get pretty good gas mileage too.

If you're going to use the car as a daily driver, I would just do some small upgrades and live with it. Open element, headers, cat back exhaust, 4th Gen drive shaft and 3.42 rear end gears. Those upgrades can be done cheaply & easily, will make the car sound MUCH better, and make it feel a little quicker too.

 

well the part of it gettign good gas mileage is the factory gearing...keep that gearing if your not going to get serious about performance.

 

The funny thing is these are the only sites you go to that tells you not to build a 5.0.... So should I hang up my maro and buy a mustang? Ppl are always pulling 500hp 5.0 85-93 stangs, why can't we out of our 5.0's? What's the difference? Just curious...

 

The difference is literally - The bore size (3.736 vs 4.00 for the mustang). Even though the mustang has a shorter stroke, you can keep the engine from detonation easier, therefore you can apply more power (higher compression, larger valves, larger cam, etc).

 

Another point is when someone asks about building a 302, no one says... "Don't waste your time on that, pull it and put a 347 or 351", but we do here, do we not have faith in our motors or is there something I'm missing?

 

So, they have a bore of a 350 and the stroke of what a 305 Should have vs a smaller bore and a 350 stroke like the 305 has? That little difference makes up for 100's in a power capable rating? That's crazy!! So basically chevy screwed up when designing the 305?

 

different head design, different induction system, different engine dimensions internally I mean bore x stroke. thier are not performance parts readily available to pump up a 305 tbi. it is doable though with the money you wanna spend.

cadillac 502 is a dog
chrysler 440 is a power house
olds 455 doesnt really compare with the buick and pontiac but they all make power...

it is more than just bore and stroke. its head design, rod ratio etc...

 

Well I think I'll stick with my 305 for now... Just build it with everything usable on a 350. Then when I get the money to buy a nice 350, maybe then change. But if everyone is putting 350s in their camaros then the lack of 305 camaros would make them more rare in a sense.

 

What does:

1.6 rr
981 springs
Lt1 camshaft
350 vortec heads- milled to 56cc .013 gasket
Rpm air gap intake w/ tbi adapter
Headers- full 3" exhaust (which was going to happen anyways)
3.42 rear end

What's that lookin power wise?

 

That's .015 gasket sry

 

It's damn near impossible to mill 350 Vortec heads down to 56cc. Go for 305 Vortec heads and port them by hand. They don't flow as well as the 350's but after a good port job they'll flow better than stock 350 Vortecs for sure. The 305 Vortecs are the 059 castings. Also get the standard Performer RPM intake, if I'm not mistaken that's because they're both readily available and the TBI likes slightly hotter air.

I'd guess with that combination and EBL Flash (plus a little work on the TBI unit and fuel regulator for more flow) you'd be a little below 350 FWHP.

 

so what you guys are saying after all this is that yes... the motor is worth. no wait......

no...... it's really not worth......

wait wait...

yes it ......... no...... nonono no

it's really not............ wait............

but maybe it is worth souping... but............

hmm.......... just sell it and buy a 98-02 more power stock and a much better platform


???????????


lololol

 

There is a guy on here 1991 rs, or something like that, he has his 350 vortec heads milled to 56cc's, he even said you could run them without milling them and it still run better than our crappy heads. And, perfect, 350 is more than enough

 

Could you link me to that thread? 305 Vortec heads are damn near impossible to find without doing some serious junkyard hunting.
I think not though- the compression loss would be ridiculous with 350 heads. Perhaps with proper tuning it would work slightly better than our stock heads, but I wouldn't put money on it.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/...bi-vortec.html

His name is '1991 rs 305', he seemed to love his build

 

We just got a pick-n-pull here, they have a lot of trucks with vortec motors in them, but idk if they are 350 or 305, haven't looked, but a set of heads complete, you pull, 40$... I'm thinking that's my ticket for 305 or 350, doesn't matter... As long as power is increased. I'm not looking for stupid fast, but quick.... That's what camaros were made for, track/circuit racing, lots of turns.... Quick out the gun

 

Idk how to hand port and what exactly is a standard performer intake? Doesn't it have to be a vortec style to work with vortec heads? That would leave the air gap intake? Or is there another?

 

Thanks for the link- nice to know I have that option
You are going to need a Vortec-specific intake if you're going to use Vortec heads. These can usually be had used for $76-150. You can also drill them to accept standard intake manifolds but then you run into problems with spacing. You can surf ebay for a decent one.
That's a pretty good price for pick and pull though- I say go for it. You could save yourself a lot of money by porting a set of 305 Vortecs and porting them by yourself and they'll still flow better than your stock heads and will definitely meet your power demands.

 

Anyone have a link on how to hand port these heads?

 

IMHO, the stock 305 tbi is worth "playing with" a little, but I wouldn't throw too much money at it. It's a relatively reliable, and cheap power plant thatll keep you going from place to place, but if you're looking to do anything serious, its worth ponying up for an LS1, Vortec 350, or pretty much any other swap that has a bit more potential to it. I made a few minor mods to my rs's 305 TBI, but I don't plan on keeping it forever.

 

I found a ported and modded tbi unit, it's an instant 45hp mod. But it's 200$, which honestly I believe is worth it. If I were to stick to the 305 and mod the tbi, then throw a nasty set of heads, intake, rr, springs, headers and complete 3" back, I'm sure that coupled with a 3.42, would be a nasty boost.... And it all can be used on a 350 as well

 

awesome

jump all over that but why not do a few "before" dyno pulls and after just that 45HP TBI do some "after" dyno pulls.

45HP for $200 is an awesome deal. I've never found anything like it all my years so you need to jump on it.

 

That's what I said! It won't last long I'm sure, as it is a new item. And it comes to where you can adjust your fuel pressure as well. I'm going to jump on it. I'm going to be buying it in about 2-3 weeks, hopefully there's no price jump within that time

 

Link? I'm kind of curious to see this. You can PM it to me, I won't buy it or share with anyone else- I have to finish buying other parts

 

That is interesting

 

putaopenspaceunderaedelbrocknowitpopsontakeoff.

WTF?

Why is this a tag?

 

torque was being sarcastic thier is no way. a 45 HP mod is worth 2k dollars. haha. it will not give you 45HP, a stock engine doesnt need a bigger tbi unit anyway.

And yes a 305 car will be more rare because everyone will have 350's...but it'll be a 305 car that the people wish had a 350....soo....yeah...

 

It's really not worth it. It adds 75 CFM of flow and is simply a stock TBI unit that's been polished, ported and had the shafts shaved. Won't really make a difference unless you're making 300hp or more

 

no I wasn't

I was being facetious

Sarcasm is meant to injure someone

a 45 HP gain on one of those engines represents a 27% increase. To claim it can be done for only $200 is beyond ludicrous however,

CAVEAT EMPTOR

 

I would think not. I'm going to install my exhaust (headers and Y-pipe dumped under the door with a glasspack) for under $200. Granted, it took some searching and refinishing but it's been totally worth it. I imagine replacing the stock exhaust is good 30-40hp
Plus, with some searching a set of 305 Vortecs can be found and rebuilt (minus valve jobs and some other goodies) for under $200

 

It actually says it's good UP TO 260 hp, not even 300hp. I thought it was interesting though, and it has a warranty, if it doesn't work.... Send it back. Could be good for a 305, could be better for a 350. But I don't understand how it could be modded, but be less horsepower valuable than stocker. Maybe it was a miss-print and meant to say above 260hp.

 

I assume you reference flywheel HP and not RWHP, correct? If so, you found a good exhaust because my 305 did not get those gains from headers.

My LT1 did but not the 305.

 

yeah but you have to get the egr burned out of the chip to run the vortecs so that is another cost added to that. and a valve job would put the cost well over 200 so that is not a good arguement at all.

 

I guess im lucky, a set of vortec heads 350 or 305 @ our local pick-n-pull are 40$ for both. To me that's cheap and allows for saved money on port/polish/valve job, besides where I work we have a machinist who could do it for me.

 

I'm pretty sure it was. In one of the TBI threads it says that a stock TBI unit can handle about 275hp before needing to be ported and having the other mods done.

I do. I normally reference fwhp because it's easier to figure out, I'll be sure to designate that from now on

Not with EBL- I'm assuming that EBL Flash or Programming is in his future
(and I'm assuming that the modification can be taken care of with PROM burning)
BTW, Badrs2810- if you want chip burning stuff PM me. I ordered brand new stuff but ended up getting a killer deal on EBL Flash. Everything's here (chip, chip adapter, programmer) except for the ALDL cable which you can make for a few bucks. $80 Shipped

 

well yeah if you have ebl no problem. But if you dont have it then that is an added cost

 

What is ebl exactly? I never understood that stuff.

 

It's like chip burning but has a better layout, better data logging, and can take measurements faster than one every 1.2 seconds. If you plan on making real power levels with it you're going to need to get 65 lb/hr injectors from a Caprice cop car ($100 refurbished and flow-matched) and a slight bump in fuel pressure, since the stock ECM isn't VFPR compatible- this is what I've heard.

Personally, I would have gone the chipped route had I not been offered the EBL ECM. When you think about it, even taking a reading every 1.2 seconds, you're still doing better than the carb'd guys- so if you're not racing regularly it's not much to gripe about

 

If you went 350, you would just use the ECM of the 350 donor to get you bump in fp right? Or would you still need to burn a chip/ ebl? At least to a certain power rating correct?